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Post by independent on Apr 25, 2023 16:38:03 GMT
If we’re not looking like by October there will be big calls to sack him. It'll be too late by then. Money will have been spent and more underperforming players on the books we're stuck with who nobody else will buy. This is our Mark Hughes moment - do we stick and hope he can build on those five exemplary games, or do we take stock and consider that a flash in the pan of a very mediocre season and get rid now? He will get the whole of next season, 2 windows to get the players he wants in and get them playing well. The board are reluctant to sack managers as they are unsure about how to go about replacing them. MON would still be here only AN made himself available, after the heavy lifting was done. I expect him to do well in a poor league next year. No excuse for failure to do so would be acceptable. He said himself that he had retained the Souttar cash so that he could get his targets in June. This is his opportunity to show that he is the right man for the job. His points tally this season has been pathetic, no matter what excuses you make for it.
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Post by teanstoke on Apr 25, 2023 16:39:49 GMT
He has had nearly a full season , maybe signed one player we can keep ie Pearson we need to get players in for the beginning of the season not at the end of the window , to go up everybody at the club needs to be up for it, the big push I expect coatesand niel to make statements to get the croud back That WE WILL NOT LOSE AT HOME .
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 25, 2023 16:41:55 GMT
it as all the signs of another repeat rinse repeat , he’ll have a bad start like MoN did , get the sack and we start all over again on to the next incumbent I think it's going to take an absolute disaster for him to get the sack or the crowd turning fairly venomously on him. Think he'll be given time. He's their man. Agreed. Though isn’t Martin’s role supposed to be independent of AN’s? If not, what is the point?
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 16:44:28 GMT
I think it's going to take an absolute disaster for him to get the sack or the crowd turning fairly venomously on him. Think he'll be given time. He's their man. Agreed. Though isn’t Martin’s role supposed to be independent of AN’s? If not, what is the point? To assist the manager?
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Post by independent on Apr 25, 2023 16:48:49 GMT
People really need to get their expectations in line with the reality IMO. I've been as disappointed as most as to how this season has ended, and also some of the performances. I've been highly critical of Neil at times. All that said. The turnaround in the summer is going to be huge and whilst not impossible, it is going to be very hard to hit the ground running. On top of that, his Preston team used to regularly be in and around the bottom 6 early doors each season. History and circumstances are pointing to a possible slow start next year so there will need to be a fair bit of patience and understanding. Burnley's new manager signed 17 players last Summer and managed to hit the ground running. I don't expect us to be that good but with a full preseason and a fully fit squad, and a manager well aware of what his present squad are capable of and what gaps need to be filled, I don't want to hear any more excuses. If he signs players late in the window then that is his doing.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 25, 2023 16:51:40 GMT
Agreed. Though isn’t Martin’s role supposed to be independent of AN’s? If not, what is the point? To assist the manager? Isn’t that Canning’s job? I thought Martin was supposed to be a technical director? Aren’t they supposed to have some independence from management to ensure stability and “create a vision”?
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 25, 2023 17:07:28 GMT
We’ll know by mid October whether the season is heading along the same lines as the last three or whether he’s turned things around.
I like many others aren’t impressed so far with AN but it was always going to be next season, by bringing in a manager at the end of the summer transfer window.
Not convinced he’s gonna do it, but he has my support until mid October.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Apr 25, 2023 17:21:38 GMT
Are we seriously talking about replacing AN? I have never seen so much knicker wetting since joe jordan took over from Lou.
His signings in January, whilst not fully dependable 100% of the time, have all contributed towards a great run and its obvious the improvement in the team when they play. When they are out the team the prior members are proving the reason why we were struggling in the first place. The fact that certain players dont like him is because he actually makes them work in training and not fanny about taking it easy like they have been able to for so long. He's not the messiah, he's simply trying to deal a bad hand that was given to him and the club has obviously waited until the summer before the Coates' member is taken out to start swinging.
He has shown enough nous to get this team in and about the play offs next year and with some shrewd signings to come along with getting rid of the poor and expensive performers in ending their contracts we should give him the full season. None of this gone by October or Xmas....
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Post by independent on Apr 25, 2023 17:57:10 GMT
Are we seriously talking about replacing AN? I have never seen so much knicker wetting since joe jordan took over from Lou. His signings in January, whilst not fully dependable 100% of the time, have all contributed towards a great run and its obvious the improvement in the team when they play. When they are out the team the prior members are proving the reason why we were struggling in the first place. The fact that certain players dont like him is because he actually makes them work in training and not fanny about taking it easy like they have been able to for so long. He's not the messiah, he's simply trying to deal a bad hand that was given to him and the club has obviously waited until the summer before the Coates' member is taken out to start swinging. He has shown enough nous to get this team in and about the play offs next year and with some shrewd signings to come along with getting rid of the poor and expensive performers in ending their contracts we should give him the full season. None of this gone by October or Xmas.... Not really sure about that. We beat Coventry 4 - 0 and played an unchanged side the following week against Bristol City. Guess the result. Of course the same 11 only had 7 days rest between the two fixtures, so that might have had something to do with our defeat.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 25, 2023 18:31:36 GMT
People really need to get their expectations in line with the reality IMO. I've been as disappointed as most as to how this season has ended, and also some of the performances. I've been highly critical of Neil at times. All that said. The turnaround in the summer is going to be huge and whilst not impossible, it is going to be very hard to hit the ground running. On top of that, his Preston team used to regularly be in and around the bottom 6 early doors each season. History and circumstances are pointing to a possible slow start next year so there will need to be a fair bit of patience and understanding. The last few results really do place doubt as to how well we will do next season. If we get off to a bad start, pressure will be on from the fans if not from the board to see him gone. That's a concern, especially if as expected we get a lot of new players where it will be unlikely to have bought into the club by then. Having had the best part of a season, we've seen some much better performances in our purple stint, but generally poorer results (as our points total will show) than we had with MON who was frugal. It's a scarily massive window isn't it!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 19:01:44 GMT
I think it's going to take an absolute disaster for him to get the sack or the crowd turning fairly venomously on him. Think he'll be given time. He's their man. Agreed. Though isn’t Martin’s role supposed to be independent of AN’s? If not, what is the point? It’s supposed to be, but then so was Cousins. I suspect that isn’t the reality.
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 19:04:25 GMT
Agreed. Though isn’t Martin’s role supposed to be independent of AN’s? If not, what is the point? It’s supposed to be, but then so was Cousins. I suspect that isn’t the reality. Is it supposed to be? Surely he's just there to help the manager, part of his team
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 19:06:29 GMT
It’s supposed to be, but then so was Cousins. I suspect that isn’t the reality. Is it supposed to be? Surely he's just there to help the manager, part of his team He’s the Technical Director, isn’t the manager supposed to report to him? That was what the Meet the Manager event suggested wasn’t it?
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 19:12:53 GMT
Is it supposed to be? Surely he's just there to help the manager, part of his team He’s the Technical Director, isn’t the manager supposed to report to him? That was what the Meet the Manager event suggested wasn’t it? I don't know what was said tbh Looks to me that we have a manager led set up, which is fine by me, not tech director led
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 19:14:38 GMT
He’s the Technical Director, isn’t the manager supposed to report to him? That was what the Meet the Manager event suggested wasn’t it? I don't know what was said tbh Looks to me that we have a manager led set up, which is fine by me, not tech director led I think we are manager led in practice given that our technical director is the manager’s mate, whatever the spin. Don’t think that’s how the role works at other clubs though.
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 19:22:41 GMT
I don't know what was said tbh Looks to me that we have a manager led set up, which is fine by me, not tech director led I think we are manager led in practice given that our technical director is the manager’s mate, whatever the spin. Don’t think that’s how the role works at other clubs though. No but that's not relevant People might want it that way, I don't understand why when you see the shambles that set up produces at so many clubs, but that's not what we have as far as can tell
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 19:29:49 GMT
I think we are manager led in practice given that our technical director is the manager’s mate, whatever the spin. Don’t think that’s how the role works at other clubs though. No but that's not relevant People might want it that way, I don't understand why when you see the shambles that set up produces at so many clubs, but that's not what we have as far as can tell You surely can understand why, even if it doesn’t work at every club?
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 19:46:29 GMT
No but that's not relevant People might want it that way, I don't understand why when you see the shambles that set up produces at so many clubs, but that's not what we have as far as can tell You surely can understand why, even if it doesn’t work at every club? Honestly no Why people want someone like Ricky Martin full on in control selecting head coaches, having final say on which players come and go and so on makes makes no sense to me football people please not accountants and chancers
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 25, 2023 19:52:22 GMT
People really need to get their expectations in line with the reality IMO. I've been as disappointed as most as to how this season has ended, and also some of the performances. I've been highly critical of Neil at times. All that said. The turnaround in the summer is going to be huge and whilst not impossible, it is going to be very hard to hit the ground running. On top of that, his Preston team used to regularly be in and around the bottom 6 early doors each season. History and circumstances are pointing to a possible slow start next year so there will need to be a fair bit of patience and understanding. The last few results really do place doubt as to how well we will do next season. If we get off to a bad start, pressure will be on from the fans if not from the board to see him gone. That's a concern, especially if as expected we get a lot of new players where it will be unlikely to have bought into the club by then. Having had the best part of a season, we've seen some much better performances in our purple stint, but generally poorer results (as our points total will show) than we had with MON who was frugal. It's a scarily massive window isn't it! It's huge and along with being worried about worrying about worrying, I'm concerned that there is a lot of pressure in an area that we are notoriously bad at, across a large number of managers now. We simply can't afford many mistakes when we are bringing in the vast number of players we are. A 50% hit rate has been an optimistic number for us over the last 6 years. We have struggled to meet that figure and if we are that low this summer then we are in huge trouble. We need a hit rate approaching 80-90%, which is nigh on impossible.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 19:53:29 GMT
You surely can understand why, even if it doesn’t work at every club? Honestly no Why people want someone like Ricky Martin full on in control selecting head coaches, having final say on which players come and go and so on makes makes no sense to me football people please not accountants and chancers It wouldn’t necessarily work like that though would it? In the setups where it works the manager still has final say on which players come and go, they just don’t have total control of the process and the club has an ethos over and above them rather than the whole football direction being dictated by someone who can up and leave at a moment’s notice. There’s a reason why so many clubs are embracing it and why clubs like Brentford and Brighton are thriving under it, surely?
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 19:54:20 GMT
Honestly no Why people want someone like Ricky Martin full on in control selecting head coaches, having final say on which players come and go and so on makes makes no sense to me football people please not accountants and chancers It wouldn’t necessarily work like that though would it? In the setups where it works the manager still has final say on which players come and go, they just don’t have total control of the process and the club has an ethos over and above them rather than the whole football direction being dictated by someone who can up and leave at a moment’s notice. There’s a reason why so many clubs are embracing it and why clubs like Brentford and Brighton are thriving under it, surely? They are very much the exception
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 19:55:26 GMT
It wouldn’t necessarily work like that though would it? In the setups where it works the manager still has final say on which players come and go, they just don’t have total control of the process and the club has an ethos over and above them rather than the whole football direction being dictated by someone who can up and leave at a moment’s notice. There’s a reason why so many clubs are embracing it and why clubs like Brentford and Brighton are thriving under it, surely? They are very much the exception Manager-led structures are very much the exception these days in the top two divisions.
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Post by kjpt140v on Apr 25, 2023 20:49:36 GMT
Well during this season he has not impressed me AN I talk of , but he now has is time to shine as he has money and choose his own players so for me if we are not top six at Xmas he should go. I hope he proves me wrong !, what do you think. I hope you come vack and apologise when he does.
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 20:58:27 GMT
They are very much the exception Manager-led structures are very much the exception these days in the top two divisions. Seriously? You think Klopp and Pep don't have the final say? Give over
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 21:03:58 GMT
Manager-led structures are very much the exception these days in the top two divisions. Seriously? You think Klopp and Pep don't have the final say? Give over I didn’t say that? I think Frank does at Brentford. You seem to have it in your head that these structures completely cut the manager out of these processes, the ones that work effectively don’t at all.
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2023 21:08:42 GMT
Seriously? You think Klopp and Pep don't have the final say? Give over I didn’t say that? I think Frank does at Brentford. You seem to have it in your head that these structures completely cut the manager out of these processes, the ones that work effectively don’t at all. Like Watford and Everton very keen to avoid that At other clubs I just see power struggles, that helps no one
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2023 21:15:41 GMT
I didn’t say that? I think Frank does at Brentford. You seem to have it in your head that these structures completely cut the manager out of these processes, the ones that work effectively don’t at all. Like Watford and Everton very keen to avoid that At other clubs I just see power struggles, that helps no one Everton are an example of what not to do with the structure. You seem to only want to focus on the bad ones. There’s surely a reason why so many clubs have embraced it and moved away from managers being the emperor who controls everything? Klopp absolutely has final say and power of veto but Michael Edwards was instrumental in a lot of their best recruitment work during their peak a few seasons back. At Man City Begiristain was in post years before Pep to create the conditions and culture for when he eventually arrived.
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Post by idle on Apr 25, 2023 21:20:23 GMT
People really need to get their expectations in line with the reality IMO. I've been as disappointed as most as to how this season has ended, and also some of the performances. I've been highly critical of Neil at times. All that said. The turnaround in the summer is going to be huge and whilst not impossible, it is going to be very hard to hit the ground running. On top of that, his Preston team used to regularly be in and around the bottom 6 early doors each season. History and circumstances are pointing to a possible slow start next year so there will need to be a fair bit of patience and understanding. Burnley's new manager signed 17 players last Summer and managed to hit the ground running. I don't expect us to be that good but with a full preseason and a fully fit squad, and a manager well aware of what his present squad are capable of and what gaps need to be filled, I don't want to hear any more excuses. If he signs players late in the window then that is his doing. And every single one of those 17 would walk straight into our squad, except we cannot afford them. He spent what? 25-30M? You can't seriously compare a recently relegated PL team with a world famous former player as manager to the tiny budget, has-been club that pissed away all the parachute payments on journeymen. AN didn't do that. We're lucky to get a player on loan from the PL, never mind buy anyone. It's possible we can hit the ground running, but I'm not counting on it. He has next season, unless we're deep in the relegation zone in February. We need to see improvent though, so below a top half finish is unacceptable. Preferable 6th-10th. Playoffs is pure bonus.
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Post by independent on Apr 25, 2023 22:03:45 GMT
Burnley's new manager signed 17 players last Summer and managed to hit the ground running. I don't expect us to be that good but with a full preseason and a fully fit squad, and a manager well aware of what his present squad are capable of and what gaps need to be filled, I don't want to hear any more excuses. If he signs players late in the window then that is his doing. And every single one of those 17 would walk straight into our squad, except we cannot afford them. He spent what? 25-30M? You can't seriously compare a recently relegated PL team with a world famous former player as manager to the tiny budget, has-been club that pissed away all the parachute payments on journeymen. AN didn't do that. We're lucky to get a player on loan from the PL, never mind buy anyone. It's possible we can hit the ground running, but I'm not counting on it. He has next season, unless we're deep in the relegation zone in February. We need to see improvent though, so below a top half finish is unacceptable. Preferable 6th-10th. Playoffs is pure bonus. Without checking, as I recall about 6 of his signings were under 1 million. And we will probably have about 20 million to spend if we wish. The real question is will AN be trusted to spend that amount. Regarding Burnley, They probably will come straight back down, unless they take a big financial gamble. If they do gamble,the likelihood is that they will be broke within a couple of years. I think Kompany will be out of there as quickly as possible.
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Post by lordb on Apr 26, 2023 6:33:59 GMT
Burnley's new manager signed 17 players last Summer and managed to hit the ground running. I don't expect us to be that good but with a full preseason and a fully fit squad, and a manager well aware of what his present squad are capable of and what gaps need to be filled, I don't want to hear any more excuses. If he signs players late in the window then that is his doing. And every single one of those 17 would walk straight into our squad, except we cannot afford them. He spent what? 25-30M? You can't seriously compare a recently relegated PL team with a world famous former player as manager to the tiny budget, has-been club that pissed away all the parachute payments on journeymen. AN didn't do that. We're lucky to get a player on loan from the PL, never mind buy anyone. It's possible we can hit the ground running, but I'm not counting on it. He has next season, unless we're deep in the relegation zone in February. We need to see improvent though, so below a top half finish is unacceptable. Preferable 6th-10th. Playoffs is pure bonus. £25m to £30m is our rumoured budget this summer
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