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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 19, 2023 6:43:10 GMT
Of course it could. It was a game that should have ended 0-0 and the goal came from Fox going awol. What do people want him to do with the ball when every midfielder hid all night behind a Wigan player? If anything he held on to it for far too long trying to look for a forward pass when nothing was on. He should have passed it sideways more imo because it was getting him in to potential trouble. But it was more of an issue with the complete lack of movement ahead and the lack of bottle from the midfield 3 to want the ball. Don't dispute the dross ahead of him but nothing we saw last night would give anyone seeing him for the first time any inclination of a good player. We have to hope the summer overhaul gives him team mates to help his development but it is at this stage more a hope than an expectation. His performance was fine though. He will have a good career as a pro footballer. He’s shown he’s capable at this level. I really don’t know what more people expect.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 19, 2023 7:49:52 GMT
I thought he confirmed all the doubts about him. He's not quick, doesn't win enough headers despite his height, his tackles are quite weak, he is quite good with the ball at his feet and carrying it forward but can't pass forward. He was a big disappointment to me and looked very shaky and nervous. I was one who couldn't understand why he wasn't getting more time but I'm sorry to say I'm seeing why Neil doesn't trust him against better opposition when a team who had managed to score just 34 goals made him look out of his depth. Thank god it’s not just me. I was listening to the radio on the way home wondering what was wrong with me when he was being lavished with praise. I thought he was awful. The odd drive forward with the ball obviously unduly impresses some folk. In a horrid team performance he looked one of the least competent players on the pitch. I’d be offering him to JB on either a perm or loan.
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 19, 2023 7:59:44 GMT
He simply has to play for the remainder of the season ahead of Jageilka, if he doesn't, he clearly has no long term future at the club..
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Post by werrington on Apr 19, 2023 8:24:13 GMT
He was easily our best player last night ……he had no forward options so along with Fox they were hamstrung when in possession
Hoever was a close 2nd and he was only on for 20 minutes
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 19, 2023 8:26:11 GMT
I thought he confirmed all the doubts about him. He's not quick, doesn't win enough headers despite his height, his tackles are quite weak, he is quite good with the ball at his feet and carrying it forward but can't pass forward. He was a big disappointment to me and looked very shaky and nervous. I was one who couldn't understand why he wasn't getting more time but I'm sorry to say I'm seeing why Neil doesn't trust him against better opposition when a team who had managed to score just 34 goals made him look out of his depth. Thank god it’s not just me. I was listening to the radio on the way home wondering what was wrong with me when he was being lavished with praise. I thought he was awful. The odd drive forward with the ball obviously unduly impresses some folk. In a horrid team performance he looked one of the least competent players on the pitch. I’d be offering him to JB on either a perm or loan. I notice Neil said we were too slow moving the ball and although I hate criticising a youngster I think he was the cause of this. He never seems to know where to look for runners or where to expect players to be so he hesitates, looks up, sees no one so passes back. I'm sure it's something which may improve playing regularly but the question is whether it is good for the team to give him that team. Our confidence seems a bit fragile and I am of the opinion that we need to finish the season strongly to build confidence in the way Neil wants us to play so that we start next season brightly.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 19, 2023 8:30:21 GMT
He was easily our best player last night ……he had no forward options so along with Fox they were hamstrung when in possession Hoever was a close 2nd and he was only on for 20 minutes Agree but part of this was because he took so long over his passes that space had been closed. At least Fox has a clear idea of what to do if no one is free and has a recently developed aura of confidence about him. See my post above on how Taylor might improve but I'm not sure the time for that is now. Lack of confidence from one or two seems to spread like a cancer through the team. Look at the Campbell in a team doing well to the one we saw last night for evidence.
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Post by werrington on Apr 19, 2023 8:34:12 GMT
He was easily our best player last night ……he had no forward options so along with Fox they were hamstrung when in possession Hoever was a close 2nd and he was only on for 20 minutes Agree but part of this was because he took so long over his passes that space had been closed. At least Fox has a clear idea of what to do if no one is free and has a recently developed aura of confidence about him. See my post above on how Taylor might improve but I'm not sure the time for that is now. Lack of confidence from one or two seems to spread like a cancer through the team. Look at the Campbell in a team doing well to the one we saw last night for evidence. See the Harry Souttar threads from 3-4 years ago when at the same age as Connor Taylor They were absolutely damning as people on here were slaughtering and laughing at him and writing him off Give him a chance eh
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Post by pez75 on Apr 19, 2023 8:35:49 GMT
Him & Hoover were the only players last night to come out with any credit IMO.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 19, 2023 8:38:56 GMT
Agree but part of this was because he took so long over his passes that space had been closed. At least Fox has a clear idea of what to do if no one is free and has a recently developed aura of confidence about him. See my post above on how Taylor might improve but I'm not sure the time for that is now. Lack of confidence from one or two seems to spread like a cancer through the team. Look at the Campbell in a team doing well to the one we saw last night for evidence. See the Harry Souttar threads from 3-4 years ago when at the same age as Connor Taylor They were absolutely/damning as people on here were slaughtering and laughing at him and writing him off Give him a chance eh I think that if you read it that is what I said but I'm not sure that this team is the place for him to gain confidence. He is playing alongside Fox who is predominantly a full back so learning the position himself to some extent.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 19, 2023 9:14:26 GMT
He's slow and ponderous and can be turned easily. He was also bustled off the ball a few times and seems to take an age to get in the air. His little turns and runs out of defence looked good but cover up those glaring deficiencies, which against better teams would be exploited. Happy for him to stay as part of the squad and see what happens as he progresses.
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Post by andylgr on Apr 19, 2023 11:43:58 GMT
He needs a few games back to back now, lets not forget he hasn't played for a long time. To write him off after last night is typical football fan mentality from people who probably couldn't do 5 kick ups if you threw them a ball.If he wasn't anywhere near it in training he wouldn't be near the first team, so the club must see something in him day to day. Give him time.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 19, 2023 13:29:27 GMT
He was one of the few players last night who went forward with the ball,getting round a couple of their players whilst doing so.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 19, 2023 14:15:21 GMT
He needs a few games back to back now, lets not forget he hasn't played for a long time. To write him off after last night is typical football fan mentality from people who probably couldn't do 5 kick ups if you threw them a ball.If he wasn't anywhere near it in training he wouldn't be near the first team, so the club must see something in him day to day. Give him time. Given we had a left back alongside him, Tuanzebe and Willmott injured and Jags a geriatric, I think that's probably why he was 'near' the First Team.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 19, 2023 17:45:51 GMT
Time for a season long loan in League One. He’s not good enough YET.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 19, 2023 17:49:56 GMT
He was outstanding in league 2 and so far he's not cut it in the championship.
I'm fairly confident he could be a very good player for us, but he needs time and games.
Maybe send him back to Bristol Rovers until January, keeping Jagielka until the same time so as to let him develop.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 19, 2023 17:50:50 GMT
I thought he did fine, needs to have a run of games now until end if season and see how he does.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 19, 2023 18:24:17 GMT
Time for a season long loan in League One. He’s not good enough YET. Not sure he ever will be. He's got major flaws which are really difficult to mitigate without having a whole tactical plan built around you. I can't see that happening on his account.
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Post by tqstokie on Apr 19, 2023 18:24:42 GMT
To me Dennis Smith did not look "good enough" when he first played but everyone on here must know what happened next. What "major flaws" are you talking about.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 19, 2023 18:28:58 GMT
Time for a season long loan in League One. He’s not good enough YET. Not sure he ever will be. He's got major flaws which are really difficult to mitigate without having a whole tactical plan built around you. I can't see that happening on his account. Don’t want to dismiss him completely, let’s see how he does. But we can’t go into next season hoping for promotion with Taylor as back up
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Post by tqstokie on Apr 19, 2023 18:32:39 GMT
Not sure he ever will be. He's got major flaws which are really difficult to mitigate without having a whole tactical plan built around you. I can't see that happening on his account. Don’t want to dismiss him completely, let’s see how he does. But we can’t go into next season hoping for promotion with Taylor as back up Why not?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 19, 2023 18:34:43 GMT
Not sure he ever will be. He's got major flaws which are really difficult to mitigate without having a whole tactical plan built around you. I can't see that happening on his account. Don’t want to dismiss him completely, let’s see how he does. But we can’t go into next season hoping for promotion with Taylor as back up Young players hoping to break into a team have to fit into the system/method of play. He's really slow and that doesn't suit the way AN wants to play. He may improve and get considerably better with more game time but he won't get significantly quicker so I just don't see adjustments to the tactical plan being made to accommodate him.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 19, 2023 18:35:02 GMT
Don’t want to dismiss him completely, let’s see how he does. But we can’t go into next season hoping for promotion with Taylor as back up Why not? Because he’s not good enough for a team with aspirations for promotion.
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Post by tqstokie on Apr 19, 2023 18:46:53 GMT
Because he’s not good enough for a team with aspirations for promotion. In your opinion.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 19, 2023 18:57:00 GMT
Because he’s not good enough for a team with aspirations for promotion. In your opinion. Indeed. That’s the point of a message board👍🏻
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Post by iamstokie on Apr 19, 2023 19:02:07 GMT
Indeed. That’s the point of a message board👍🏻 in quite a few opinions tbh
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 19, 2023 19:24:23 GMT
Time for a season long loan in League One. He’s not good enough YET. Not sure he ever will be. He's got major flaws which are really difficult to mitigate without having a whole tactical plan built around you. I can't see that happening on his account. Maybe, but I remember how clumsy and slow Souttar looked before we sent him to Fleetwood. He was written off by a lot of people on here, but fast forward a couple of years and he's worth £15 million. Further back in time, Steve Bould was seen as a bit of a joke when he first came into the side, but after a couple of years' development he was off to Arsenal and winning titles as part of the best defence they've ever had. I didn't really watch properly last night, but based on his early season appearances I think Taylor has something. He's not ready yet, but a season on loan in League One would do him the world of good at this point. Unfortunately we may be in the situation within just a few weeks where he is literally the only fit CB contracted to Stoke City, which isn't ideal.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 19, 2023 20:12:38 GMT
Not sure he ever will be. He's got major flaws which are really difficult to mitigate without having a whole tactical plan built around you. I can't see that happening on his account. Maybe, but I remember how clumsy and slow Souttar looked before we sent him to Fleetwood. He was written off by a lot of people on here, but fast forward a couple of years and he's worth £15 million. Further back in time, Steve Bould was seen as a bit of a joke when he first came into the side, but after a couple of years' development he was off to Arsenal and winning titles as part of the best defence they've ever had. I didn't really watch properly last night, but based on his early season appearances I think Taylor has something. He's not ready yet, but a season on loan in League One would do him the world of good at this point. Unfortunately we may be in the situation within just a few weeks where he is literally the only fit CB contracted to Stoke City, which isn't ideal. Souttar is still slow it's something that simply won't improve. Bould was of a different era where CB's were stoppers, you have to see a difference between then and now. Slow CB's who head it and kick it out are becoming extinct. We did well on Souttar he's great if you base your tactical approach and philosophy around his strengths and do your best to mitigate his weaknesses having him fit into yours not so good. Such players need to go to a club that plays in a way that suits them.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 20, 2023 9:50:47 GMT
I must have been watching a different game. Slow, ponderous and rarely made a pass other than sideways or back. A couple of turns out of defence to get himself out of the shit, followed by yes you’ve guessed a sideways or backwards pass. For someone so big he also managed to get bullied and turned in several occasions. Never a championship standard defender in a million years. He’ll be sold in the summer to a league 1 (pushing it) or league 2 side. There was no forwards passes on though. There was one to Hoever but that was it. It was poor judgment but other than that sideways passing was the order of the day as the midfield hid. Not at fault for the goal. Defended ok. Was fine. That's because he took so long over his passes. He had no idea when he received the ball what he was going to do with it. Compared to Wilmot who he was replacing and always looks to get us forward and attacking (even if some of his passes don't succeed and get intercepted) he was a disaster. I suspect Neil's comment about moving the ball too slowly was aimed at Taylor and the other replacements.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 20, 2023 9:53:16 GMT
There was no forwards passes on though. There was one to Hoever but that was it. It was poor judgment but other than that sideways passing was the order of the day as the midfield hid. Not at fault for the goal. Defended ok. Was fine. That's because he took so long over his passes. He had no idea when he received the ball what he was going to do with it. Compared to Wilmot who he was replacing and always looks to get us forward and attacking (even if some of his passes don't succeed and get intercepted) he was a disaster. I suspect Neil's comment about moving the ball too slowly was aimed at Taylor and the other replacements. No it wasn't. The lack of movement was just how we have played for the last 7 years There was one he didn't play when he should have done, other than that he passed it fine. Wilmot's forward passing is atrocious.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 20, 2023 10:02:34 GMT
That's because he took so long over his passes. He had no idea when he received the ball what he was going to do with it. Compared to Wilmot who he was replacing and always looks to get us forward and attacking (even if some of his passes don't succeed and get intercepted) he was a disaster. I suspect Neil's comment about moving the ball too slowly was aimed at Taylor and the other replacements. No it wasn't. The lack of movement was just how we have played for the last 7 years There was one he didn't play when he should have done, other than that he passed it fine. Wilmot's forward passing is atrocious. Wilmot's passing is forward and his completed passes bearing that in mind is quite high (76%). He is two years older than Taylor and at Taylors age had already played more than half a season for Watford in the Championship. The following season he played nearly every game for us. Are you basing your opinion on the fact that Taylor is one of our own academy players or on facts?
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