|
Post by cvillestokie on Apr 8, 2023 23:23:00 GMT
We will never know unless he plays. What are you judging "He's nowhere near the standard of" on. Since you can't have seen him play recently. He won't learn anything sitting on the bench they may as well have left him with Bristol Rovers. Rovers fans are already including him in their ideal team for next season. BM He should have been there again this year. It made no sense to keep him around as back up. He helped get them promoted. We should have just brought in a loan closer to Championship standard and let him develop in a league that was still a step up from his previous experience.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Apr 8, 2023 23:24:35 GMT
Last 2 managers have preferred square pegs rather than have to play him and this manager also prefers a player who is 40+ Have to move him on if we are not going to give him a chance or don't see him as a viable option when players are injured - what is the point in keeping him? As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position and we have always been short in numbers. In the last window we moved 2 out and only saw the need to bring one in - bizarre - thought this manager would change that in an instant. Effectively, as Taylor has not been seen as a viable option by the last 2 managers, that left us with Wilmot, a 40-year-old, and a player who had not kicked a ball for over a year - not sure how on earth that was deemed acceptable by a club that was in a relegation battle at the time and was going to be playing 2 games a week. If we are only going to have 4 central defenders in the squad, which has got to be one of the lowest amounts in the top 2 divisions, then they all have to be viable ones that can step up and compete with each other and not be teenagers, 40-year-olds or crocked. We desperately need quality and numbers in that area of the park or we won't progress very far and we will see more home performances like yesterday where we will struggle to keep a clean sheet - a really important area of the pitch that we have neglected year on year and manager after manager “As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position” The only two good sales we’ve had in the last 6 years have been central defenders….
|
|
|
Post by LphPotter on Apr 8, 2023 23:27:04 GMT
Rovers fans are already including him in their ideal team for next season. BM He should have been there again this year. It made no sense to keep him around as back up. He helped get them promoted. We should have just brought in a loan closer to Championship standard and let him develop in a league that was still a step up from his previous experience. Agree he should have gone back there on loan but in fairness I think O’Neill had plans for him to be a starter to be honest, he started our first 7 championship games. I thought he did well in most of them except Neil’s first game against Swansea where he was poor. He’s also had injuries during the season, but think he would definitely benefit from a loan next season, got to be in league one though.
|
|
|
Post by LphPotter on Apr 8, 2023 23:32:32 GMT
Last 2 managers have preferred square pegs rather than have to play him and this manager also prefers a player who is 40+ Have to move him on if we are not going to give him a chance or don't see him as a viable option when players are injured - what is the point in keeping him? As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position and we have always been short in numbers. In the last window we moved 2 out and only saw the need to bring one in - bizarre - thought this manager would change that in an instant. Effectively, as Taylor has not been seen as a viable option by the last 2 managers, that left us with Wilmot, a 40-year-old, and a player who had not kicked a ball for over a year - not sure how on earth that was deemed acceptable by a club that was in a relegation battle at the time and was going to be playing 2 games a week. If we are only going to have 4 central defenders in the squad, which has got to be one of the lowest amounts in the top 2 divisions, then they all have to be viable ones that can step up and compete with each other and not be teenagers, 40-year-olds or crocked. We desperately need quality and numbers in that area of the park or we won't progress very far and we will see more home performances like yesterday where we will struggle to keep a clean sheet - a really important area of the pitch that we have neglected year on year and manager after manager O’Neill started him in every game this season that he was manager, he definitely did think he was a viable option. He is only 21, Souttar didn’t start a league game for us until he was 21, almost 22. From what I’ve seen of Taylor I think he’s got a great future tbh.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Apr 8, 2023 23:32:33 GMT
He should have been there again this year. It made no sense to keep him around as back up. He helped get them promoted. We should have just brought in a loan closer to Championship standard and let him develop in a league that was still a step up from his previous experience. Agree he should have gone back there on loan but in fairness I think O’Neill had plans for him to be a starter to be honest, he started our first 7 championship games. I thought he did well in most of them except Neil’s first game against Swansea where he was poor. He’s also had injuries during the season, but think he would definitely benefit from a loan next season, got to be in league one though. Yeah. I think it’s still too early to give up on him. Unlike some of the players we’ve tried to bring through, he definitely looks like he will have a career in the football league. We may as well try and develop him here, if only just to make a little money on him after.
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Apr 9, 2023 8:28:55 GMT
Last 2 managers have preferred square pegs rather than have to play him and this manager also prefers a player who is 40+ Have to move him on if we are not going to give him a chance or don't see him as a viable option when players are injured - what is the point in keeping him? As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position and we have always been short in numbers. In the last window we moved 2 out and only saw the need to bring one in - bizarre - thought this manager would change that in an instant. Effectively, as Taylor has not been seen as a viable option by the last 2 managers, that left us with Wilmot, a 40-year-old, and a player who had not kicked a ball for over a year - not sure how on earth that was deemed acceptable by a club that was in a relegation battle at the time and was going to be playing 2 games a week. If we are only going to have 4 central defenders in the squad, which has got to be one of the lowest amounts in the top 2 divisions, then they all have to be viable ones that can step up and compete with each other and not be teenagers, 40-year-olds or crocked. We desperately need quality and numbers in that area of the park or we won't progress very far and we will see more home performances like yesterday where we will struggle to keep a clean sheet - a really important area of the pitch that we have neglected year on year and manager after manager “As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position” The only two good sales we’ve had in the last 6 years have been central defenders…. If memory serves me correctly those were both brought in as youth players and we did not really get much playing time out of the pair of them. Do you think we have always had quality and numbers in the first team squad, since Huth, and are you satisfied with that area of our squad now?
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Apr 9, 2023 8:33:28 GMT
Taylor cannot go on loan elsewhere in the league at this stage of the season. So unless you'd like to see him in non-league, it's here he must be given games. Rather him play for the u23s or not play then, he’s really not up to the required standard Sounds like the Harry Souttar threads from a few years ago also Whatever happened to him?
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Apr 9, 2023 8:44:11 GMT
I think he’s just too slow and too slow on the turn to make it at this level.
I hope I’m wrong.
|
|
|
Post by a on Apr 9, 2023 9:50:17 GMT
Stoke first team. Also got a mate who’s a Bristol Rovers fan and he reckoned he was currently playing at the right level, league 2. Not saying he won’t improve but at present I think he’d weaken the defence. Well that was quite some time ago. Joey Barton thought he was outstanding at that level. I think his opinion is more important than your mates. Probably is, similarly Alex Neil’s is worth more to me than Joey Barton’s. That and what I’ve seen I don’t think he’s good enough yet. 👍
|
|
|
Post by tqstokie on Apr 9, 2023 9:50:42 GMT
When he learns when to go and when not to go consistently then any difficulty turning would be minimised. He is not going to improve warming the bench or in the reserve teams. He needs to be playing. He is young, he is bound to make mistakes(Pearson made a few on Friday). Persevere with him and give him a fair crack at it.
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Apr 9, 2023 10:48:51 GMT
I think he’s just too slow and too slow on the turn to make it at this level. I hope I’m wrong. Alot used to say that about Souttar aswell and he hasn't done to bad for himself although the prem seems to be maybe too soon for him just yet.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2023 13:01:31 GMT
if tuanzebe is out , then has to be the time to play him now .
Let him sink or swim
We might as well find out if he's up to the job or not
It's well established that jags was a great player in his day and his best days are behind him . There is nothing for him to prove or us to learn about him .
|
|
|
Post by idle on Apr 10, 2023 9:08:57 GMT
if tuanzebe is out , then has to be the time to play him now . Let him sink or swim We might as well find out if he's up to the job or not It's well established that jags was a great player in his day and his best days are behind him . There is nothing for him to prove or us to learn about him . Wilmot and Taylor is a good pairing IMO, except that both are right footed, but that isn't the end of the world. Sterling covers the LB well enough for it to work, as could Fox (or as a LCB).
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Apr 10, 2023 9:20:01 GMT
Last 2 managers have preferred square pegs rather than have to play him and this manager also prefers a player who is 40+ Have to move him on if we are not going to give him a chance or don't see him as a viable option when players are injured - what is the point in keeping him? As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position and we have always been short in numbers. In the last window we moved 2 out and only saw the need to bring one in - bizarre - thought this manager would change that in an instant. Effectively, as Taylor has not been seen as a viable option by the last 2 managers, that left us with Wilmot, a 40-year-old, and a player who had not kicked a ball for over a year - not sure how on earth that was deemed acceptable by a club that was in a relegation battle at the time and was going to be playing 2 games a week. If we are only going to have 4 central defenders in the squad, which has got to be one of the lowest amounts in the top 2 divisions, then they all have to be viable ones that can step up and compete with each other and not be teenagers, 40-year-olds or crocked. We desperately need quality and numbers in that area of the park or we won't progress very far and we will see more home performances like yesterday where we will struggle to keep a clean sheet - a really important area of the pitch that we have neglected year on year and manager after manager I expect the club would say they called it exactly right in the transfer window. Don’t spend money on extra centre backs, manage with what we have plus Fox if needed and save the funds for next summer. Have a look at Taylor in training, see if Axel is worth a longer gamble while scouting the market. Job done
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Apr 12, 2023 22:46:35 GMT
Last 2 managers have preferred square pegs rather than have to play him and this manager also prefers a player who is 40+ Have to move him on if we are not going to give him a chance or don't see him as a viable option when players are injured - what is the point in keeping him? As a club we just don't do central defenders - ever since we gave Huth away we have not had many decent players in that position and we have always been short in numbers. In the last window we moved 2 out and only saw the need to bring one in - bizarre - thought this manager would change that in an instant. Effectively, as Taylor has not been seen as a viable option by the last 2 managers, that left us with Wilmot, a 40-year-old, and a player who had not kicked a ball for over a year - not sure how on earth that was deemed acceptable by a club that was in a relegation battle at the time and was going to be playing 2 games a week. If we are only going to have 4 central defenders in the squad, which has got to be one of the lowest amounts in the top 2 divisions, then they all have to be viable ones that can step up and compete with each other and not be teenagers, 40-year-olds or crocked. We desperately need quality and numbers in that area of the park or we won't progress very far and we will see more home performances like yesterday where we will struggle to keep a clean sheet - a really important area of the pitch that we have neglected year on year and manager after manager I expect the club would say they called it exactly right in the transfer window. Don’t spend money on extra centre backs, manage with what we have plus Fox if needed and save the funds for next summer. Have a look at Taylor in training, see if Axel is worth a longer gamble while scouting the market. Job done First question Angela asked AN in the press conference after the window was about the lack of numbers re central defence and he just said we have other defenders in the squad that can play there if needs be - which was a bit of a disappointing answer for me and pretty much how we have been in defence since our final year in the prem - just constantly playing square pegs. Not holding out much hope that we will bring in numbers/quality in that area once again. I think if we sign Axel then I can see them trying to balance the books and keep Taylor and Jags who will both be cheap options - that would be a mistake for me and I could even see them not replacing Jags if he does decide to retire and have just 3 central defenders in the smaller squad and maybe a youth team player to make the numbers up. All conjecture I suppose, but if we don't improve considerably in that area of the park then I, personally, think we will struggle to be a team competing in the top half again
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Apr 13, 2023 11:34:10 GMT
I expect the club would say they called it exactly right in the transfer window. Don’t spend money on extra centre backs, manage with what we have plus Fox if needed and save the funds for next summer. Have a look at Taylor in training, see if Axel is worth a longer gamble while scouting the market. Job done First question Angela asked AN in the press conference after the window was about the lack of numbers re central defence and he just said we have other defenders in the squad that can play there if needs be - which was a bit of a disappointing answer for me and pretty much how we have been in defence since our final year in the prem - just constantly playing square pegs. Not holding out much hope that we will bring in numbers/quality in that area once again. I think if we sign Axel then I can see them trying to balance the books and keep Taylor and Jags who will both be cheap options - that would be a mistake for me and I could even see them not replacing Jags if he does decide to retire and have just 3 central defenders in the smaller squad and maybe a youth team player to make the numbers up. All conjecture I suppose, but if we don't improve considerably in that area of the park then I, personally, think we will struggle to be a team competing in the top half again I was replying to your point about the transfer window strategy which you questioned but which turns out to have been a perfect bend of pragmatism and financial management to lay the ground for. push next season. There is no evidence he wants 3 CBs, he has 4 plus Fox currently, just your conjecture based on supposition not evidence. Hard to see how a Championship club builds a competitive squad given wage levels with more than 4 specialist CBs plus cover from utility players like Fox. That is why Fox seems an important signing, low cost and can do a job on occasions.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2023 16:27:10 GMT
Jagielka from this point on should never really play for us again. There’s no way he should be kept for next season. Play Taylor, see how he does. This was reinforced today.
|
|
|
Post by marylandstoke on Apr 15, 2023 16:30:16 GMT
Jagielka from this point on should never really play for us again. There’s no way he should be kept for next season. Play Taylor, see how he does. This was reinforced today. It really, really was.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Apr 15, 2023 16:34:14 GMT
Why don't we play Taylor now to give him more experience, Jags is finished anyway. This must be the last time we see Jags in a starting 11, he has simply become too slow when the ball is played in behind him. We also lack height on set plays situations. Give Taylor the last 4 games now as we can't go up or down anyway.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 15, 2023 17:33:17 GMT
Why don't we play Taylor now to give him more experience, Jags is finished anyway. This must be the last time we see Jags in a starting 11, he has simply become too slow when the ball is played in behind him. We also lack height on set plays situations. Give Taylor the last 4 games now as we can't go up or down anyway. Either play him now or sell him in the Summer because if he's worse than Jag's he's never going to be good enough. I'll go with AN's judgement on it as he appears to recognise the problems that having Jag's on is causing the team listening to his Radio Stoke interview.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 15, 2023 17:34:29 GMT
The manager doesn’t rate him, simple as that.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 15, 2023 17:36:59 GMT
This was reinforced today. It really, really was. It's been very apparent for quite a while, causes us massive problems. Experience can only compensate for so much when the legs have gone.
|
|
|
Post by stokecitydom on Apr 15, 2023 17:39:05 GMT
Think it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t fancy him. The fact that the clearly finished Jagielka is in ahead of him proves this.
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Apr 15, 2023 17:43:53 GMT
The manager doesn’t rate him, simple as that. Why stop the lad from going out on loan in January then? Bizarre decision
|
|
|
Post by nonameface on Apr 15, 2023 17:46:19 GMT
The manager doesn’t rate him, simple as that. Why do the lad from going out on loan in January then? Bizarre decision Incase we needed back up?
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Apr 15, 2023 17:47:47 GMT
Why do the lad from going out on loan in January then? Bizarre decision Incase we needed back up? Even when he's had the chance to play him, he hasn't.
|
|
|
Post by Veritas on Apr 15, 2023 17:50:21 GMT
Incase we needed back up? Even when he's had the chance to play him, he hasn't. We have never been quite that stretched personnel wise but if we had been and AN had sent him out on loan he would have been pilloried on here.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2023 18:02:14 GMT
Think it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t fancy him. The fact that the clearly finished Jagielka is in ahead of him proves this. It’s just shit management then and he needs calling out for it.
|
|
|
Post by jokker on Apr 15, 2023 19:24:26 GMT
Does 21-rule still apply? If it does then Taylor is needed for the bench, but Neil is under obligation to play him.
|
|
|
Post by a on Apr 15, 2023 19:39:54 GMT
Jagielka from this point on should never really play for us again. There’s no way he should be kept for next season. Play Taylor, see how he does. This was reinforced today. No it wasn’t
|
|