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Post by george2again on Apr 2, 2023 6:36:16 GMT
Amongst the current elation of how we’re playing at present,it should be remembered that most fans ( certainly on msg board)wanted us to change to 4-3-3 well before Neil was forced to by injuries. He was stubbornly sticking to 5-3-2 and we were struggling. If we’d had won one or two he would probably still be persisting with it. Just a point.
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Post by walrus on Apr 2, 2023 7:24:59 GMT
Fully agree. The prevailing narrative now is that Neil needed a transfer window to sort out our squad and play this system but nine of the eleven players that started yesterday and four of the five subs used have been our players all season.
Pearson has obviously made a huge difference and Laurent who’s also been integral to the recent success was unavailable for much of the first half of the season, but notwithstanding that we still saw some of our best results and performances on the few occasions we did play with a back four (Sheff Utd home and Preston away for example).
We’re six points away from where we’d need to be to be seriously in the playoff mix. I think we would have got them if Neil hadn’t been so bloody keen to persevere with a wing back system that didn’t work for MON and wasn’t working for him.
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Post by jokker on Apr 2, 2023 7:41:23 GMT
I disagree. Neil always wanted to play with a four man defence and with wingers, but when he came in, he struggled to see how he could implement his vision with the players available to him. He probably didn't see Brown and Campbell let alone Gayle as wide players, whereas he saw our central defenders as the backbone of the team, so he just tried to build on O'Neill's team making subtle changes along the way. The 13 players playing now, who were here before, are, for most of them, a different kettle of fish now
That doesn't mean that the supporters weren't right nor does it mean that 352/532 in itself is a bad system, just that it hadn't worked for us at that particular lengthy period.
Playing for 433 for the last few games has worked well for us, but it doesn't guarantee that we won't suffer defeats again. Once our current spell is over - long may it last - we could be heading for a different spell, a losing spell. That's when we'll find out the true character of the team.
It's just a matter of one or more managers finding the right strategy against us, to find out where our weaknesses are. Or injuries could play a part; we have a reasonably clean berth now, but injuries or loan recalls could change our rhythm.
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Post by kevkj on Apr 2, 2023 7:45:02 GMT
Some strange bashing of the manager here.
Fact is he did not have the fullbacks, Pearson, a fit Campbell or Smallbone in his position to play the way we do now.
Just enjoy the ride and praise a technical top manager.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 9:10:55 GMT
Some strange bashing of the manager here. Fact is he did not have the fullbacks, Pearson, a fit Campbell or Smallbone in his position to play the way we do now. Just enjoy the ride and praise a technical top manager. I think he deserves bashing and praise with it. There’s been a line that has been telling for me. He said something along the lines of “I was told this squad was built for 3 at the back”. Whoever told him that was a liar and knows nothing about football. But he clearly went with it. And that’s the bit he needs stick for. It’s been an issue with the last few managers, they’ve just carried on with the same old shite the previous bloke did without thinking. No idea but it’s what has happened. Credit to Neil for actually changing that even if it was a bit late. He didn’t have to as the other idiots have shown but he did. |
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Post by george2again on Apr 2, 2023 10:00:06 GMT
Some strange bashing of the manager here. Fact is he did not have the fullbacks, Pearson, a fit Campbell or Smallbone in his position to play the way we do now. Just enjoy the ride and praise a technical top manager. I think he deserves bashing and praise with it. There’s been a line that has been telling for me. He said something along the lines of “I was told this squad was built for 3 at the back”. Whoever told him that was a liar and knows nothing about football. But he clearly went with it. And that’s the bit he needs stick for. It’s been an issue with the last few managers, they’ve just carried on with the same old shite the previous bloke did without thinking. No idea but it’s what has happened. Credit to Neil for actually changing that even if it was a bit late. He didn’t have to as the other idiots have shown but he did. Tynon injury forced his hand a bit I think. Tynon fit he would have persevered I reckon. Hughes did it, O’Neill did it, when you don’t have the players for wing backs don’t do it. People forget before this run brown was playing wing back. My original point was that he more stumbled on this was of playing rather than implemented it as a strategy. Bloody great though. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 10:03:04 GMT
I think he deserves bashing and praise with it. There’s been a line that has been telling for me. He said something along the lines of “I was told this squad was built for 3 at the back”. Whoever told him that was a liar and knows nothing about football. But he clearly went with it. And that’s the bit he needs stick for. It’s been an issue with the last few managers, they’ve just carried on with the same old shite the previous bloke did without thinking. No idea but it’s what has happened. Credit to Neil for actually changing that even if it was a bit late. He didn’t have to as the other idiots have shown but he did. Tynon injury forced his hand a bit I think. Tynon fit he would have persevered I reckon. Hughes did it, O’Neill did it, when you don’t have the players for wing backs don’t do it. People forget before this run brown was playing wing back. My original point was that he more stumbled on this was of playing rather than implemented it as a strategy. Bloody great though. I’m always up for a lucky injury. And that was definitely one and I said so at the time. People call you a cunt for it but I couldn’t give a shit. They’re definitely a thing. Tymon getting injured is one such lucky injury. |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 2, 2023 10:45:32 GMT
Tynon injury forced his hand a bit I think. Tynon fit he would have persevered I reckon. Hughes did it, O’Neill did it, when you don’t have the players for wing backs don’t do it. People forget before this run brown was playing wing back. My original point was that he more stumbled on this was of playing rather than implemented it as a strategy. Bloody great though. I’m always up for a lucky injury. And that was definitely one and I said so at the time. People call you a cunt for it but I couldn’t give a shit. They’re definitely a thing. Tymon getting injured is one such lucky injury. Andy Griffin in our promotion season too. He wasn't anywhere near as good as right back as he had been at left back and he was largely crap that season. In the run in we had that crucial game away at Coventry and we were crap in the first half with Griffin being particularly poor. Fortunately he got injured and was replaced and we almost immediately picked up and came back in the second half to win a crucial game and end a dodgy run that we were on. We finished the season with Andy Wilkinson at right back and we had a much better balance and were able to get the results we needed to seal automatic promotion. Had Griffin not got injured I don't think we would have finished in the top two and who knows what would have happened in the playoffs. Our entire recent history could have been totally different and we could now be looking at 38 years since we were last in the top flight. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 10:48:29 GMT
I’m always up for a lucky injury. And that was definitely one and I said so at the time. People call you a cunt for it but I couldn’t give a shit. They’re definitely a thing. Tymon getting injured is one such lucky injury. Andy Griffin in our promotion season too. He wasn't anywhere near as good as right back as he had been at left back and he was largely crap that season. In the run in we had that crucial game away at Coventry and we were crap in the first half with Griffin being particularly poor. Fortunately he got injured and was replaced and we almost immediately picked up and came back in the second half to win a crucial game and end a dodgy run that we were on. We finished the season with Andy Wilkinson at right back and we had a much better balance and were able to get the results we needed to seal automatic promotion. Had Griffin not got injured I don't think we would have finished in the top two and who knows what would have happened in the playoffs. Our entire recent history could have been totally different and we could now be looking at 38 years since we were last in the top flight. Yup. He’s the ultimate version of it. It’s not a nice thing to happen but it can help. There was clearly a lot of thought in place at the club that it was a squad for a back 3 and that quite frankly was just absolute bollocks. Thankfully (hopefully) they’ve learned. |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 2, 2023 10:50:38 GMT
Andy Griffin in our promotion season too. He wasn't anywhere near as good as right back as he had been at left back and he was largely crap that season. In the run in we had that crucial game away at Coventry and we were crap in the first half with Griffin being particularly poor. Fortunately he got injured and was replaced and we almost immediately picked up and came back in the second half to win a crucial game and end a dodgy run that we were on. We finished the season with Andy Wilkinson at right back and we had a much better balance and were able to get the results we needed to seal automatic promotion. Had Griffin not got injured I don't think we would have finished in the top two and who knows what would have happened in the playoffs. Our entire recent history could have been totally different and we could now be looking at 38 years since we were last in the top flight. Yup. He’s the ultimate version of it. It’s not a nice thing to happen but it can help. There was clearly a lot of thought in place at the club that it was a squad for a back 3 and that quite frankly was just absolute bollocks. Thankfully (hopefully) they’ve learned. I've just checked the line ups and I'm actually wrong about finishing the season with Andy Wilkinson. The long forgotten Chris Riggott was playing in defence. But the point still stands, that injury to Griffin was a crucial lucky break. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 11:45:19 GMT
AN didn't have the right tools to build something decent,since the window he managed to got some of the tools he needed.
Hopefully next season his tool box will be full of what he needs.
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Post by a on Apr 2, 2023 12:31:39 GMT
AN didn't have the right tools to build something decent,since the window he managed to got some of the tools he needed. Hopefully next season his tool box will be full of what he needs. Just shows how ridiculous it was calling for his head without giving him time. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 12:35:14 GMT
AN didn't have the right tools to build something decent,since the window he managed to got some of the tools he needed. Hopefully next season his tool box will be full of what he needs. We had a team that could play with a back 4 and he should have done it immediately. It was poor. |
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 2, 2023 12:36:49 GMT
For me, at the risk of repeating myself, the change is almost entirely down to Neil.
He dropped Baker and moved Laurant forward.
He brought in Pearson.
Thirdly, Smallbone's change in form, which maybe due to his own efforts, Neil and coaches, or the change in formation due to Tymon's injury, or all three.
Other factors are fitness levels, removing players who were ineffective, and a far more proactive approach with pressing and less side to side/long ball negativity. Side to side passing, invariably followed by a Soutter long pass was getting us nowhere.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 2, 2023 12:50:24 GMT
I think he deserves bashing and praise with it. There’s been a line that has been telling for me. He said something along the lines of “I was told this squad was built for 3 at the back”. Whoever told him that was a liar and knows nothing about football. But he clearly went with it. And that’s the bit he needs stick for. It’s been an issue with the last few managers, they’ve just carried on with the same old shite the previous bloke did without thinking. No idea but it’s what has happened. Credit to Neil for actually changing that even if it was a bit late. He didn’t have to as the other idiots have shown but he did. Tynon injury forced his hand a bit I think. Tynon fit he would have persevered I reckon. Hughes did it, O’Neill did it, when you don’t have the players for wing backs don’t do it. People forget before this run brown was playing wing back. My original point was that he more stumbled on this was of playing rather than implemented it as a strategy. Bloody great though. I think what did it was him not having confidence in his midfield until he signed a bona fide DM. He was making noises about wanting one almost as soon as he arrived. I think not having anyone he felt confident playing at LB was likely another factor too, plus Sterling wasn't fit for much of the season. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Apr 2, 2023 12:51:09 GMT
I still think a back four with Clarke and Fox and a holding midfielder in Thompson would have picked up more points than we were doing though. But no point crying about it now, we are where we are.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 2, 2023 12:55:38 GMT
For me, at the risk of repeating myself, the change is almost entirely down to Neil. He dropped Baker and moved Laurant forward. He brought in Pearson. Thirdly, Smallbone's change in form, which maybe due to his own efforts, Neil and coaches, or the change in formation due to Tymon's injury, or all three. Other factors are fitness levels, removing players who were ineffective, and a far more proactive approach with pressing and less side to side/long ball negativity. Side to side passing, invariably followed by a Soutter long pass was getting us nowhere. Ultimately only Alex Neil will know how much of the change in formation was down to him, or how much of it was down to luck from Tymon getting injured and removing the only player in the squad who is suited to the wing backs system. A couple of months ago he did mention something about people at the club telling him that the squad was built for 3-5-2 and so that's why he was playing it in the first half of the season. Rather coincidentally it was just after Rory's departure so potentially it could have been him who had been saying it and maybe Neil came to the conclusion that he'd been given poor advice from Rory and he paid for it with his job? But this is all conjecture, we'll probably never know the truth about what happened. What is clear though is that the January loan signings were excellent, and that's definitely something Neil and Martin can take credit for. He's brought players in that suit 4 at the back and signed the defensive midfielder that we've been crying out for years. So whether the switch was a bit lucky and forced upon by Tymon's injury, or it was a conscious decision he made that would have been made anyway regardless of the injury, what we're doing now is undoubtedly working and he deserves credit for it. Let's hope he can build on it into next season and if he can't sign the loan players at least identify the right players to continue playing in a similar vein. |
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Post by ohbottom on Apr 2, 2023 13:23:07 GMT
Tynon injury forced his hand a bit I think. Tynon fit he would have persevered I reckon. Hughes did it, O’Neill did it, when you don’t have the players for wing backs don’t do it. People forget before this run brown was playing wing back. My original point was that he more stumbled on this was of playing rather than implemented it as a strategy. Bloody great though. I think what did it was him not having confidence in his midfield until he signed a bona fide DM. He was making noises about wanting one almost as soon as he arrived. I think not having anyone he felt confident playing at LB was likely another factor too, plus Sterling wasn't fit for much of the season. This ^^^ Pearson gives the shield that allows us to play with 2 CHs and still allow the FBs to get forward. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 2, 2023 13:45:21 GMT
Amazing performance. Genuinely amazing!
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Post by jokker on Apr 2, 2023 15:25:09 GMT
For me, at the risk of repeating myself, the change is almost entirely down to Neil. He dropped Baker and moved Laurant forward. He brought in Pearson. Thirdly, Smallbone's change in form, which maybe due to his own efforts, Neil and coaches, or the change in formation due to Tymon's injury, or all three. Other factors are fitness levels, removing players who were ineffective, and a far more proactive approach with pressing and less side to side/long ball negativity. Side to side passing, invariably followed by a Soutter long pass was getting us nowhere. Ultimately only Alex Neil will know how much of the change in formation was down to him, or how much of it was down to luck from Tymon getting injured and removing the only player in the squad who is suited to the wing backs system. A couple of months ago he did mention something about people at the club telling him that the squad was built for 3-5-2 and so that's why he was playing it in the first half of the season. Rather coincidentally it was just after Rory's departure so potentially it could have been him who had been saying it and maybe Neil came to the conclusion that he'd been given poor advice from Rory and he paid for it with his job? But this is all conjecture, we'll probably never know the truth about what happened. What is clear though is that the January loan signings were excellent, and that's definitely something Neil and Martin can take credit for. He's brought players in that suit 4 at the back and signed the defensive midfielder that we've been crying out for years. So whether the switch was a bit lucky and forced upon by Tymon's injury, or it was a conscious decision he made that would have been made anyway regardless of the injury, what we're doing now is undoubtedly working and he deserves credit for it. Let's hope he can build on it into next season and if he can't sign the loan players at least identify the right players to continue playing in a similar vein. I wouldn't say Tymon is the only player suited to 352. You're a poor player if you can't adapt to different systems, and in the case of wbs vs fbs it's really only a matter of yards and pace, then you can do it. But you need conviction, confidence and good coaching from the manager, and if all he says before a match is, 'go on lads' then that just isn't good enough management. I have no doubt at all that we'll return to playing 352 sooner rather than later. I just hope the manager and coaqches train our players better and bring in a few players who are flexible and have better skills on the ball. There's nothing wrong with 352, but for whatever reason successive managers just haven't found the right mix or they put up stumbling blocks for themselves, such as keeping Edwards out of the team for a long, long time, simply because he once was drunk or nursing a hangover or whatever it was. He had to be disciplined of course, but two weeks wages would do, not two years out of the club. I know he has his detractors, but how many actually know what he can do for us or not at this stage. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 2, 2023 15:50:08 GMT
I still think a back four with Clarke and Fox and a holding midfielder in Thompson would have picked up more points than we were doing though. But no point crying about it now, we are where we are. No doubt about it. |
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Post by nott1 on Apr 2, 2023 16:20:28 GMT
He must have read the oatcake!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 16:50:30 GMT
We are a lot less passive now , a lot more confident and insistent on playing the game we want to play.
55 per cent duels won at Coventry and 56 per cent headers . It wasn't like that when AN walked through the door.
Bonham bravely dived at the Coventry strikers feet yesterday, when he was trying get a shot off on our six yard line, then immediately got up and squared off with him. Basically told him, that's my ball feck off .
Ridiculous theatricals from Bonham as the bloke is entitled to shoot at our goal from six yards out but confidence boardering on arrogance from Bonham. Great stuff , how it should be, but miles away from the timid passive play of our players at the start of the season.
We are way more confident, going out to play our game and making the opposition worry about us .
It's having a huge affect on our performances and results
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 2, 2023 17:03:38 GMT
I hate to admit it but 5-3-2 partly failed because of fluke goals against and strikers constantly missing.
But it was drudgery. 4-3-3 would have meant similar or better results but been less shit to watch.
IMO a proper CDM unleashes smallbone-laurent. AN seeing that and MON being blind to it is a big deal
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 17:07:45 GMT
If only some of us had been calling for a DM for the last 7/8 years 😂
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 2, 2023 17:09:10 GMT
If only some of us had been calling for a DM for the last 7/8 years 😂 Hindsight, Bayern. Hindsight. |
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Post by pushon on Apr 2, 2023 17:14:18 GMT
He must have read the oatcake! Or, more than likely Bayern sent him a p.m, spelling out (in Upper Case) just what were the problems and more importantly the resolutions. A copy of which also went to JC and Hey Presto💥 Bayerns plan was followed to the letter and we all lived Happy ever After🤗 |
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Post by BuzzB on Apr 2, 2023 22:43:07 GMT
Pearson has been a massive signing, once we got a decent DM the rest has fallen into place. Having 11 players all on the same wavelength helps.
Long may it continue.
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Post by professorplump on Apr 2, 2023 23:42:09 GMT
If only some of us had been calling for a DM for the last 7/8 years 😂 This forum is so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as you to guide us. When are 'vastly superior' Huddersfield going to overtake us as you promised us they would a few weeks ago? |
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Post by sensiblestokie on Apr 3, 2023 1:10:50 GMT
What can he do to change your mind? 😂
We’re playing the best football and on probably the best run since coming down. What more do you want?
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