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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2023 5:24:28 GMT
If only some of us had been calling for a DM for the last 7/8 years 😂 This forum is so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as you to guide us. When are 'vastly superior' Huddersfield going to overtake us as you promised us they would a few weeks ago? I didn’t just say me. There was plenty of us. And good point, we got the lucky Tymon injury that changed all that. I did say at the time that it was the only day of hope!
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Post by knype on Apr 3, 2023 5:29:49 GMT
This forum is so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as you to guide us. When are 'vastly superior' Huddersfield going to overtake us as you promised us they would a few weeks ago? I didn’t just say me. There was plenty of us. And good point, we got the lucky Tymon injury that changed all that. I did say at the time that it was the only day of hope! Throw enough shit around and some will stick! The change is down to the Jan loan signings and surely a change in fitness regime, we look much fitter!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2023 5:58:12 GMT
I didn’t just say me. There was plenty of us. And good point, we got the lucky Tymon injury that changed all that. I did say at the time that it was the only day of hope! Throw enough shit around and some will stick! The change is down to the Jan loan signings and surely a change in fitness regime, we look much fitter! Is it? Would we have gone to a back 4 without that injury?
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Post by george2again on Apr 3, 2023 6:24:29 GMT
I didn’t just say me. There was plenty of us. And good point, we got the lucky Tymon injury that changed all that. I did say at the time that it was the only day of hope! Throw enough shit around and some will stick! The change is down to the Jan loan signings and surely a change in fitness regime, we look much fitter! Every team looks fitter when they are playing well with confidence. All those players will be dying to get out and play at present, no pressure and enjoying it. Pressure is a massively underrated element in sport, no pressure everyone relaxes and life becomes easier.
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Post by idle on Apr 3, 2023 6:27:18 GMT
Throw enough shit around and some will stick! The change is down to the Jan loan signings and surely a change in fitness regime, we look much fitter! Is it? Would we have gone to a back 4 without that injury? We did play 4-3-3 a couple of times before Tymons injury, but it seemed we didn't have the fitness to sustain the pressing levels for 90 minutes. I think that when you combine getting Pearson in to fill the glaring DM hole, getting fit enough, getting the fullbacks' roles filled and some crucial performances to get the confidence up, in addition to Tymon getting injured, you have our transformation. Could Tymon have played LB and Sterling on RB instead of Hoever? I guess we'll never know, but I suspect the key always was filling the Pearson role. You get into discussions about whether Tymon and Campbell could play on the same side (probably not) and if Brown could work on the left, but then you get another type of wide forwards, and so on.
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Post by george2again on Apr 3, 2023 6:33:53 GMT
Is it? Would we have gone to a back 4 without that injury? We did play 4-3-3 a couple of times before Tymons injury, but it seemed we didn't have the fitness to sustain the pressing levels for 90 minutes. I think that when you combine getting Pearson in to fill the glaring DM hole, getting fit enough, getting the fullbacks' roles filled and some crucial performances to get the confidence up, in addition to Tymon getting injured, you have our transformation. Could Tymon have played LB and Sterling on RB instead of Hoever? I guess we'll never know, but I suspect the key always was filling the Pearson role. You get into discussions about whether Tymon and Campbell could play on the same side (probably not) and if Brown could work on the left, but then you get another type of wide forwards, and so on. Pearson is like the new coming of Gerry Taggart. Has such influence on the team, everyone knows we needed a player like that and fit us like a glove. No nonsense, does his job. No 1 priority in transfer window if we can get him? What money is he on/ length of contract?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2023 6:41:36 GMT
Is it? Would we have gone to a back 4 without that injury? We did play 4-3-3 a couple of times before Tymons injury, but it seemed we didn't have the fitness to sustain the pressing levels for 90 minutes. I think that when you combine getting Pearson in to fill the glaring DM hole, getting fit enough, getting the fullbacks' roles filled and some crucial performances to get the confidence up, in addition to Tymon getting injured, you have our transformation. Could Tymon have played LB and Sterling on RB instead of Hoever? I guess we'll never know, but I suspect the key always was filling the Pearson role. You get into discussions about whether Tymon and Campbell could play on the same side (probably not) and if Brown could work on the left, but then you get another type of wide forwards, and so on. We did on the odd occasion but it still looked like he was going with the back 3. The game Tymon got injured in and the next one he went with it. It’s not just that factor obviously. Pearson coming in I think allowed him to think a back 4 could be done too. There is clearly a school of thought at the club that the back 3 was the way to go with these players. Idiots. Thank God, one way or another that AN got there in the end.
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Post by idle on Apr 3, 2023 8:27:48 GMT
We did play 4-3-3 a couple of times before Tymons injury, but it seemed we didn't have the fitness to sustain the pressing levels for 90 minutes. I think that when you combine getting Pearson in to fill the glaring DM hole, getting fit enough, getting the fullbacks' roles filled and some crucial performances to get the confidence up, in addition to Tymon getting injured, you have our transformation. Could Tymon have played LB and Sterling on RB instead of Hoever? I guess we'll never know, but I suspect the key always was filling the Pearson role. You get into discussions about whether Tymon and Campbell could play on the same side (probably not) and if Brown could work on the left, but then you get another type of wide forwards, and so on. Pearson is like the new coming of Gerry Taggart. Has such influence on the team, everyone knows we needed a player like that and fit us like a glove. No nonsense, does his job. No 1 priority in transfer window if we can get him? What money is he on/ length of contract? We have a chance if Bournemouth stay up. If not he'll probably stay with them, or at least they'll want him to. And, the relegation battle in the PL is massive this year. Everyone from 12th (Palace, 12th with 30 points and -15 gd) to Soton (20th, 23p, -24). And excluding those, there are teams within 3 points excluding. Even if Bmouth is above the relegation line right now, they're only a single point above Everton with a -10 worse goal difference, so anything could happen.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Apr 3, 2023 8:38:19 GMT
Some strange bashing of the manager here. Fact is he did not have the fullbacks, Pearson, a fit Campbell or Smallbone in his position to play the way we do now. Just enjoy the ride and praise a technical top manager. I think he deserves bashing and praise with it. There’s been a line that has been telling for me. He said something along the lines of “I was told this squad was built for 3 at the back”. Whoever told him that was a liar and knows nothing about football. But he clearly went with it. And that’s the bit he needs stick for. It’s been an issue with the last few managers, they’ve just carried on with the same old shite the previous bloke did without thinking. No idea but it’s what has happened. Credit to Neil for actually changing that even if it was a bit late. He didn’t have to as the other idiots have shown but he did. God forbid he listened to the professionals already within the club, when he arrived. Who by the way, he's now mostly fucked off.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2023 9:42:40 GMT
I think he deserves bashing and praise with it. There’s been a line that has been telling for me. He said something along the lines of “I was told this squad was built for 3 at the back”. Whoever told him that was a liar and knows nothing about football. But he clearly went with it. And that’s the bit he needs stick for. It’s been an issue with the last few managers, they’ve just carried on with the same old shite the previous bloke did without thinking. No idea but it’s what has happened. Credit to Neil for actually changing that even if it was a bit late. He didn’t have to as the other idiots have shown but he did. God forbid he listened to the professionals already within the club, when he arrived. Who by the way, he's now mostly fucked off. Yes God forbid. It was a stupid thing to do.
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Post by shakermaker on Apr 3, 2023 10:19:15 GMT
Playing for 433 for the last few games has worked well for us, but it doesn't guarantee that we won't suffer defeats again. Once our current spell is over - long may it last - we could be heading for a different spell, a losing spell. That's when we'll find out the true character of the team. Do we play a rigid 4-3-3? To me it appears Laurent is placed alongside Pearson in holding midfield, but he's given more licence to run box-to-box and get forward more, and Smallbone is the pressing No 10.
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Post by idle on Apr 3, 2023 10:33:44 GMT
God forbid he listened to the professionals already within the club, when he arrived. Who by the way, he's now mostly fucked off. Yes God forbid. It was a stupid thing to do. So now you're advocationg for a total clearout of absolutely all personell when arriving as a manager at a club? No point in keeping them if you're not going to listen to them. AN did nothing wrong here. He gave those people a chance to prove themselves, and when they weren't any good he shipped them off. And 5-3-2 is a fine formation - if you have the players for it. What we lacked for it to work was a target man/false nine (we have powell, but he's mostly injured), a right wingback (sterling isn't one, and clarke even worse). I guess he was hoping Fosu or Clarke would come good, but as much as you're deriding Brown at RWB, he was better than those two. IMO the single piece missing (if all players were fit) was the same as in a 4-3-3: a proper DM. In addition to that, we also lack wingers, but AN has figured out a way around that. The formation vs. Coventry was more like what NJs 4-1-2-1-2 than a classic 4-3-3, with Powell dropping back from the front to create space for Brown and Campbell, neither of whom are really wingers. Could he have switched to a 4-3-3 before? Maybe, but with the factors in my post above not being there, it didn't work as he wanted it to.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2023 11:49:51 GMT
Yes God forbid. It was a stupid thing to do. So now you're advocationg for a total clearout of absolutely all personell when arriving as a manager at a club? No point in keeping them if you're not going to listen to them. AN did nothing wrong here. He gave those people a chance to prove themselves, and when they weren't any good he shipped them off. And 5-3-2 is a fine formation - if you have the players for it. What we lacked for it to work was a target man/false nine (we have powell, but he's mostly injured), a right wingback (sterling isn't one, and clarke even worse). I guess he was hoping Fosu or Clarke would come good, but as much as you're deriding Brown at RWB, he was better than those two. IMO the single piece missing (if all players were fit) was the same as in a 4-3-3: a proper DM. In addition to that, we also lack wingers, but AN has figured out a way around that. The formation vs. Coventry was more like what NJs 4-1-2-1-2 than a classic 4-3-3, with Powell dropping back from the front to create space for Brown and Campbell, neither of whom are really wingers. Could he have switched to a 4-3-3 before? Maybe, but with the factors in my post above not being there, it didn't work as he wanted it to. That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it.
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Post by idle on Apr 3, 2023 12:54:35 GMT
So now you're advocationg for a total clearout of absolutely all personell when arriving as a manager at a club? No point in keeping them if you're not going to listen to them. AN did nothing wrong here. He gave those people a chance to prove themselves, and when they weren't any good he shipped them off. And 5-3-2 is a fine formation - if you have the players for it. What we lacked for it to work was a target man/false nine (we have powell, but he's mostly injured), a right wingback (sterling isn't one, and clarke even worse). I guess he was hoping Fosu or Clarke would come good, but as much as you're deriding Brown at RWB, he was better than those two. IMO the single piece missing (if all players were fit) was the same as in a 4-3-3: a proper DM. In addition to that, we also lack wingers, but AN has figured out a way around that. The formation vs. Coventry was more like what NJs 4-1-2-1-2 than a classic 4-3-3, with Powell dropping back from the front to create space for Brown and Campbell, neither of whom are really wingers. Could he have switched to a 4-3-3 before? Maybe, but with the factors in my post above not being there, it didn't work as he wanted it to. That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. We'll have to disagree then. No use trying to play a 4-3-3 high pressing game when you have a squad full of semi-fit players, and missing key pieces. A squad built for slow paced sideways passing, or whatever the hell MON was trying to do. But the squad didn't suit that either (apart from Tymon), I'll give you that
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 3, 2023 13:19:13 GMT
The other factor to remember is that Sterling wasn't available from the beginning of November until the end of January and not having Hoever until the end of January we didn't have a right back. My memory is that Wilmot played right wing back as did Brown. Neither of them had the requisite skills to play attacking fullback. If you look at the matches Sterling has played since recovering from injury they almost coincide completely with our good run. Hope we can keep him. He goes under the radar a bit with Hoever's goal run.
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Post by jokker on Apr 3, 2023 14:28:05 GMT
So now you're advocationg for a total clearout of absolutely all personell when arriving as a manager at a club? No point in keeping them if you're not going to listen to them. AN did nothing wrong here. He gave those people a chance to prove themselves, and when they weren't any good he shipped them off. And 5-3-2 is a fine formation - if you have the players for it. What we lacked for it to work was a target man/false nine (we have powell, but he's mostly injured), a right wingback (sterling isn't one, and clarke even worse). I guess he was hoping Fosu or Clarke would come good, but as much as you're deriding Brown at RWB, he was better than those two. IMO the single piece missing (if all players were fit) was the same as in a 4-3-3: a proper DM. In addition to that, we also lack wingers, but AN has figured out a way around that. The formation vs. Coventry was more like what NJs 4-1-2-1-2 than a classic 4-3-3, with Powell dropping back from the front to create space for Brown and Campbell, neither of whom are really wingers. Could he have switched to a 4-3-3 before? Maybe, but with the factors in my post above not being there, it didn't work as he wanted it to. That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. No two managers are the same and they don't simply "do the same as the previous bloke." It's about giving everyone a chance to prove themselves, even if they were failures under the previous management and you could see that on videos. Players will sometimes react to different words from the new manager, although sometimes they really are no good. It's not a perfect approach, but it's better than immediately writing off half the team, sending them to train alone but opening for a bad atmosphere around the dressing room, as we've seen in the past with Rowett and Jones. Playing them in the system players were trained for in preseason might make some sense, until you find out exactly why it didn't work. Even if fans could work out that a system that brought successive losses is no good, managers don't think along those lines. They have to believe that players, their new employees, are good and can adapt to the wisdom the new guy brings. In the past new managers could immediately bring in their "own" players and ship off the losers, but nowadays you have to wait for the next window to even start clearing off the mess and there's not enough cash to bring in wholesale changes. So the manager has to make use of what you've got at hand, even if he could study the oatcake mb and find all the perfect answers there.
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Post by stokeyank on Apr 3, 2023 14:59:19 GMT
So now you're advocationg for a total clearout of absolutely all personell when arriving as a manager at a club? No point in keeping them if you're not going to listen to them. AN did nothing wrong here. He gave those people a chance to prove themselves, and when they weren't any good he shipped them off. And 5-3-2 is a fine formation - if you have the players for it. What we lacked for it to work was a target man/false nine (we have powell, but he's mostly injured), a right wingback (sterling isn't one, and clarke even worse). I guess he was hoping Fosu or Clarke would come good, but as much as you're deriding Brown at RWB, he was better than those two. IMO the single piece missing (if all players were fit) was the same as in a 4-3-3: a proper DM. In addition to that, we also lack wingers, but AN has figured out a way around that. The formation vs. Coventry was more like what NJs 4-1-2-1-2 than a classic 4-3-3, with Powell dropping back from the front to create space for Brown and Campbell, neither of whom are really wingers. Could he have switched to a 4-3-3 before? Maybe, but with the factors in my post above not being there, it didn't work as he wanted it to. That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. I do wonder how much influence some of the players stated preferences had on those choices. I recall an interview with Souttar where he specifically stated he prefered playing in a back 3. Tymon (as mentioned) another who prefered and fit that. At the time AN showed up they were 2 of our best players. As a manager it is your job to make those difficult decisions but it's also not the best idea to show up and piss off a bunch of your squad. You start out that way and you run the risk of losing the locker room straight away. Like I said, as the manager you need to be able to handle all of that, but it is also a delicate balance. Tough to know all the factors.
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Post by jokker on Apr 3, 2023 15:14:41 GMT
That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. No two managers are the same and they don't simply "do the same as the previous bloke." It's about giving everyone a chance to prove themselves, even if they were failures under the previous management and you could see that on videos. Players will sometimes react to different words from the new manager, although sometimes they really are no good. It's not a perfect approach, but it's better than immediately writing off half the team, sending them to train alone but opening for a bad atmosphere around the dressing room, as we've seen in the past with Rowett and Jones. Playing them in the system players were trained for in preseason might make some sense, until you find out exactly why it didn't work. Even if fans could work out that a system that brought successive losses is no good, managers don't think along those lines. They have to believe that players, their new employees, are good and can adapt to the wisdom the new guy brings. In the past new managers could immediately bring in their "own" players and ship off the losers, but nowadays you have to wait for the next window to even start clearing off the mess and there's not enough cash to bring in wholesale changes. So the manager has to make use of what you've got at hand, even if he could study the oatcake mb and find all the perfect answers there. Plus you're never going to have a manager who will watch videos of your new team and then will say 'now I know wverything about the character of my men'. Obviously they do watch videos all the time, but, you need to know more about the players to make the all important decisions.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2023 17:15:36 GMT
That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. No two managers are the same and they don't simply "do the same as the previous bloke." It's about giving everyone a chance to prove themselves, even if they were failures under the previous management and you could see that on videos. Players will sometimes react to different words from the new manager, although sometimes they really are no good. It's not a perfect approach, but it's better than immediately writing off half the team, sending them to train alone but opening for a bad atmosphere around the dressing room, as we've seen in the past with Rowett and Jones. Playing them in the system players were trained for in preseason might make some sense, until you find out exactly why it didn't work. Even if fans could work out that a system that brought successive losses is no good, managers don't think along those lines. They have to believe that players, their new employees, are good and can adapt to the wisdom the new guy brings. In the past new managers could immediately bring in their "own" players and ship off the losers, but nowadays you have to wait for the next window to even start clearing off the mess and there's not enough cash to bring in wholesale changes. So the manager has to make use of what you've got at hand, even if he could study the oatcake mb and find all the perfect answers there. He carried on with the same system. A system that most of us knew didn’t suit the players. Yet these professionals couldn’t see that. I’m sorry I think it’s a crock.
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Post by jokker on Apr 3, 2023 19:29:14 GMT
No two managers are the same and they don't simply "do the same as the previous bloke." It's about giving everyone a chance to prove themselves, even if they were failures under the previous management and you could see that on videos. Players will sometimes react to different words from the new manager, although sometimes they really are no good. It's not a perfect approach, but it's better than immediately writing off half the team, sending them to train alone but opening for a bad atmosphere around the dressing room, as we've seen in the past with Rowett and Jones. Playing them in the system players were trained for in preseason might make some sense, until you find out exactly why it didn't work. Even if fans could work out that a system that brought successive losses is no good, managers don't think along those lines. They have to believe that players, their new employees, are good and can adapt to the wisdom the new guy brings. In the past new managers could immediately bring in their "own" players and ship off the losers, but nowadays you have to wait for the next window to even start clearing off the mess and there's not enough cash to bring in wholesale changes. So the manager has to make use of what you've got at hand, even if he could study the oatcake mb and find all the perfect answers there. He carried on with the same system. A system that most of us knew didn’t suit the players. Yet these professionals couldn’t see that. I’m sorry I think it’s a crock. I'll spell it out for you again. Managers think they are exceptional people and don't care what happened before. Neil had to see for himself which players were especially faulty, before he dropped them. Like most managers he doesn't see anything wrong with 352 knowing full well it's how you apply it and the players apply themselves that decide what works.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Apr 3, 2023 22:29:06 GMT
God forbid he listened to the professionals already within the club, when he arrived. Who by the way, he's now mostly fucked off. Yes God forbid. It was a stupid thing to do. So, if you walked into a company, say, your new employer, and you were the new manager of, I dunno, 70 staff. You're saying you'd just go in there, not ask the CEO about any of the people, the structure, you'd just go in, and on day one, put your stamp in it, and discard everything else that had gone before you?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 3, 2023 23:06:48 GMT
So now you're advocationg for a total clearout of absolutely all personell when arriving as a manager at a club? No point in keeping them if you're not going to listen to them. AN did nothing wrong here. He gave those people a chance to prove themselves, and when they weren't any good he shipped them off. And 5-3-2 is a fine formation - if you have the players for it. What we lacked for it to work was a target man/false nine (we have powell, but he's mostly injured), a right wingback (sterling isn't one, and clarke even worse). I guess he was hoping Fosu or Clarke would come good, but as much as you're deriding Brown at RWB, he was better than those two. IMO the single piece missing (if all players were fit) was the same as in a 4-3-3: a proper DM. In addition to that, we also lack wingers, but AN has figured out a way around that. The formation vs. Coventry was more like what NJs 4-1-2-1-2 than a classic 4-3-3, with Powell dropping back from the front to create space for Brown and Campbell, neither of whom are really wingers. Could he have switched to a 4-3-3 before? Maybe, but with the factors in my post above not being there, it didn't work as he wanted it to. That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. I'm sorry but you really have lost the plot. Neil reverted to 5 at the back having seen for himself that 4 at the back wasn't working with the squad he inherited. It's working now because he's got the players he needs to make it work. It's laughable that you think you know better than Neil.
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Post by professorplump on Apr 4, 2023 5:18:15 GMT
This forum is so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as you to guide us. When are 'vastly superior' Huddersfield going to overtake us as you promised us they would a few weeks ago? I didn’t just say me. There was plenty of us. And good point, we got the lucky Tymon injury that changed all that. I did say at the time that it was the only day of hope! There is more horseshit in your posts than there is at Aintree. At NO point this season have Huddersfield been vastly superior to us and if you think otherwise then you know nothing about football. And Tymon's injury is irrelevant as even without him we still have players who can fit in to a wingback formation should the manager wish to do so. Our turnaround in form is mainly to do with having a quality DM and also because our players are now playing with confidence rather than fear.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 4, 2023 5:57:24 GMT
I didn’t just say me. There was plenty of us. And good point, we got the lucky Tymon injury that changed all that. I did say at the time that it was the only day of hope! There is more horseshit in your posts than there is at Aintree. At NO point this season have Huddersfield been vastly superior to us and if you think otherwise then you know nothing about football. And Tymon's injury is irrelevant as even without him we still have players who can fit in to a wingback formation should the manager wish to do so. Our turnaround in form is mainly to do with having a quality DM and also because our players are now playing with confidence rather than fear. His injury is irrelevant, he is the reason we played 3 at the back.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 4, 2023 5:58:06 GMT
That's what happens usually. My issue is and has been that managers come in and do the same as the previous bloke like they haven't actually watched a video of what's gone on before. His quote confirmed (for me) that kind of has happened. I think it's lazy and poor. 532 is ok if you have the squad for it, we didn't, so don't use it. I'm sorry but you really have lost the plot. Neil reverted to 5 at the back having seen for himself that 4 at the back wasn't working with the squad he inherited. It's working now because he's got the players he needs to make it work. It's laughable that you think you know better than Neil. He predominantly used it from the get go and it failed.
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