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Post by RedandWhite90 on Mar 9, 2023 23:33:10 GMT
Christ, absolutely staggering when you look at it like thatđ Pittsburgh Steelers have apparently had just THREE Head Coaches since 1969. Noll, Cowher and Tomlin. Tomlin has never had a losing season (came close last year mind). |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 10, 2023 9:11:11 GMT
Sorry youâve obviously got a belief that patience is rewarded but I donât think you have any data to back that up at all. The link youâve posted really isnât data at all and is nothing to do with success anyway itâs to do with avoiding relegation. Hard data particularly with reference to the subject would be an analasys of average time in post for managers winning promotion from the championship. I havenât done it but my instinct is it would be far shorter than the championship managers youâve named who you think have been a success due to patience. Having a preference for an approach is fine but when you try to back it up with bollox it doesnât prove your preference is borne out by fact. Arteta? Arsenal currently being rewarded for pateince By the Watford model Stoke would have sacked Waddington, Durban, Macari, Tbordason and Pulis because none achieved absolute instant success 3 months is not enough time. 3 months is long enough to decide youâve made a mistake with your appointment. Iâve said on numerous occasions that a manager should be judged over a wide range of KPTâs. Lack of progress on a number of them might indicate that the person you recruited is not the fit youâd hoped for. Conversely meeting the vast majority of them but without the results youâd hoped for might lead you to still believe you have the right person. Edwards seems to be doing very well with the squad Jones assembled but maybe Watford judged that like Jones himself it just wasnât a good fit for a different profile of player. Itâs much easier and cheaper to get rid of a manager than tear up a squad of players and get ones that suit him. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 10, 2023 10:20:38 GMT
Arteta? Arsenal currently being rewarded for pateince By the Watford model Stoke would have sacked Waddington, Durban, Macari, Tbordason and Pulis because none achieved absolute instant success 3 months is not enough time. 3 months is long enough to decide youâve made a mistake with your appointment. Iâve said on numerous occasions that a manager should be judged over a wide range of KPTâs. Lack of progress on a number of them might indicate that the person you recruited is not the fit youâd hoped for. Conversely meeting the vast majority of them but without the results youâd hoped for might lead you to still believe you have the right person. Edwards seems to be doing very well with the squad Jones assembled but maybe Watford judged that like Jones himself it just wasnât a good fit for a different profile of player. Itâs much easier and cheaper to get rid of a manager than tear up a squad of players and get ones that suit him. It depends how the club is setup. Watford get away with it because decisions about the squad are made by their backroom staff and the manager is expected to get the best out if what they are given. Clubs like us who put squad building in the hands of the manager either have to bring in replacement managers who have the same approach as the previous manager - which begs the question as to why operate that way - or accept that the new manager will need time to rebuild the squad. Based on your criteria we would have got rid of Neil before Xmas - the only reason we are doing ok is because he has been given some time to shape the squad and the playing style the way he wants it - he was rubbish at getting a tune out if the squad he inherited. What you are suggesting can work for a club like Watford but given the way we operate it would be a disaster. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 10, 2023 10:31:36 GMT
3 months is long enough to decide youâve made a mistake with your appointment. Iâve said on numerous occasions that a manager should be judged over a wide range of KPTâs. Lack of progress on a number of them might indicate that the person you recruited is not the fit youâd hoped for. Conversely meeting the vast majority of them but without the results youâd hoped for might lead you to still believe you have the right person. Edwards seems to be doing very well with the squad Jones assembled but maybe Watford judged that like Jones himself it just wasnât a good fit for a different profile of player. Itâs much easier and cheaper to get rid of a manager than tear up a squad of players and get ones that suit him. It depends how the club is setup. Watford get away with it because decisions about the squad are made by their backroom staff and the manager is expected to get the best out if what they are given. Clubs like us who put squad building in the hands of the manager either have to bring in replacement managers who have the same approach as the previous manager - which begs the question as to why operate that way - or accept that the new manager will need time to rebuild the squad. Based on your criteria we would have got rid of Neil before Xmas - the only reason we are doing ok is because he has been given some time to shape the squad and the playing style the way he wants it - he was rubbish at getting a tune out if the squad he inherited. What you are suggesting can work for a club like Watford but given the way we operate it would be a disaster. Non of it really follows though as I donât think the way our club is run is healthy so Iâd obviously prefer a model more like Watfords. I wouldnât have had to sack AN because I wouldnât have employed him in the first place. I wouldnât say I like him still but I do like Stoke scoring 3âs 4âs and 5âs so if he can keep it going and cut the number of 0âs down heâll get my backing even though Iâm not looking to join the Alex Neil fan club. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 10, 2023 12:18:32 GMT
It depends how the club is setup. Watford get away with it because decisions about the squad are made by their backroom staff and the manager is expected to get the best out if what they are given. Clubs like us who put squad building in the hands of the manager either have to bring in replacement managers who have the same approach as the previous manager - which begs the question as to why operate that way - or accept that the new manager will need time to rebuild the squad. Based on your criteria we would have got rid of Neil before Xmas - the only reason we are doing ok is because he has been given some time to shape the squad and the playing style the way he wants it - he was rubbish at getting a tune out if the squad he inherited. What you are suggesting can work for a club like Watford but given the way we operate it would be a disaster. Non of it really follows though as I donât think the way our club is run is healthy so Iâd obviously prefer a model more like Watfords. I wouldnât have had to sack AN because I wouldnât have employed him in the first place. I wouldnât say I like him still but I do like Stoke scoring 3âs 4âs and 5âs so if he can keep it going and cut the number of 0âs down heâll get my backing even though Iâm not looking to join the Alex Neil fan club. But the point stands - it's dodgy to keep changing managers if you don't have something like Watford's way of working. Whether we should adopt the Watford model is a separate issue and I think there is some merit in it but the fact is we are where we are and flip flopping managers would be a recipe for disaster. I really don't think Neil is your sort of manager - he's a pragmatist. We may hit 4 or 5 every now and again but he'll also happily grind out a few 0-0s if it means making the the playoffs or promotion. I like him - my sort of manager. |
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Post by dirtclod on Mar 10, 2023 14:33:43 GMT
Watford? Are you serious? LMAO
They're never good enough to be acting like that and it's nothing to be imitating.
If this was a successful "model" then you'd see better teams than them doing it and none of them are - because they have more than 3 brain cells.
You can't build a program/consistent system in 12 games and end up paying off everyone on the continent before it's over.
FFS they're sitting 10th in the Championship after all this chopping/changing and folk act like they're geniuses.
That's because all those smartasses in the front office can't do fuck all on the pitch during matches.
So you plop the next victim out there while the players struggle to remember his name, much less what he wants.
They're only entertainment fodder for me with all this managers getting paid millions to coach a handful of games.
Mark my words, just a matter of time before the string pops on that yoyo.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 10, 2023 16:48:19 GMT
Watford? Are you serious? LMAO They're never good enough to be acting like that and it's nothing to be imitating. If this was a successful "model" then you'd see better teams than them doing it and none of them are - because they have more than 3 brain cells. You can't build a program/consistent system in 12 games and end up paying off everyone on the continent before it's over. FFS they're sitting 10th in the Championship after all this chopping/changing and folk act like they're geniuses. That's because all those smartasses in the front office can't do fuck all on the pitch during matches. So you plop the next victim out there while the players struggle to remember his name, much less what he wants. They're only entertainment fodder for me with all this managers getting paid millions to coach a handful of games. Mark my words, just a matter of time before the string pops on that yoyo. The point is with that turnover in managers they should have gone belly up years ago - for a club of their size they have done remarkably well and they have only pulled it off because of they way they operate. The issue with that model is that there could well come a point when it's the people behind the scenes making the strategic decisions that are the problem and not the manager. The club then has a bigger problem than just sacking the manager - the have to overhaul the whole backroom, rebuild and wait for it to bed in. Watford are going through a bad patch -:it will be interesting to see whether that time has come. What Watford are doing is pretty standard in the rest of Europe where managers see themselves as coaches. The British model of the manager ruling the roost is pretty unusual these days. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Mar 10, 2023 17:33:10 GMT
Must be difficult for players to adapt to the amount of managerial changes at Watford.... Especially if each manager has his own strategy and formation!!!
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Post by dirtclod on Mar 10, 2023 18:44:49 GMT
Watford? Are you serious? LMAO They're never good enough to be acting like that and it's nothing to be imitating. If this was a successful "model" then you'd see better teams than them doing it and none of them are - because they have more than 3 brain cells. You can't build a program/consistent system in 12 games and end up paying off everyone on the continent before it's over. FFS they're sitting 10th in the Championship after all this chopping/changing and folk act like they're geniuses. That's because all those smartasses in the front office can't do fuck all on the pitch during matches. So you plop the next victim out there while the players struggle to remember his name, much less what he wants. They're only entertainment fodder for me with all this managers getting paid millions to coach a handful of games. Mark my words, just a matter of time before the string pops on that yoyo. The point is with that turnover in managers they should have gone belly up years ago - for a club of their size they have done remarkably well and they have only pulled it off because of they way they operate. The issue with that model is that there could well come a point when it's the people behind the scenes making the strategic decisions that are the problem and not the manager. The club then has a bigger problem than just sacking the manager - the have to overhaul the whole backroom, rebuild and wait for it to bed in. Watford are going through a bad patch -:it will be interesting to see whether that time has come. What Watford are doing is pretty standard in the rest of Europe where managers see themselves as coaches. The British model of the manager ruling the roost is pretty unusual these days. Yes I agree that the manager "ruling the roost" is rare and outdated, something that has cost us. But with nobody behind the scenes having a football background, it's what we have. So while I don't like Watford's ridiculousness, I'm no fan of our "model" either. Eventually Watford will "screw the pooch" and fail to right the ship because as you said, the whole backroom staff will have to change and the way they run that club, they're in charge. So a complete coup would have to occur and damned quickly, which doesn't lend itself to mid-season switches unlike what they're becoming quite accustomed to with their managers. So unless they're prepared for a "Night of Long Knives," then they'll fail. To me, if they really knew what they were doing? They wouldn't have had so much manager-turnover to begin with. Nobody has been able to sustain a damned thing at that club other than up and down all the time. So at that point where they realize - "Hey it's not the last 98 managers, it's us," don't think they can react in time. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 10, 2023 23:16:47 GMT
Watford? Are you serious? LMAO They're never good enough to be acting like that and it's nothing to be imitating. If this was a successful "model" then you'd see better teams than them doing it and none of them are - because they have more than 3 brain cells. You can't build a program/consistent system in 12 games and end up paying off everyone on the continent before it's over. FFS they're sitting 10th in the Championship after all this chopping/changing and folk act like they're geniuses. That's because all those smartasses in the front office can't do fuck all on the pitch during matches. So you plop the next victim out there while the players struggle to remember his name, much less what he wants. They're only entertainment fodder for me with all this managers getting paid millions to coach a handful of games. Mark my words, just a matter of time before the string pops on that yoyo. Itâs very much the same model Chelsea used during the Abramovic era. Watford have been a bit more prolific getting through manager/head coaches but then they canât attract the very best coaches in the first place. Itâs much more likely to succeed than you are to drop on a dynasty coach under our model. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 10, 2023 23:27:31 GMT
Non of it really follows though as I donât think the way our club is run is healthy so Iâd obviously prefer a model more like Watfords. I wouldnât have had to sack AN because I wouldnât have employed him in the first place. I wouldnât say I like him still but I do like Stoke scoring 3âs 4âs and 5âs so if he can keep it going and cut the number of 0âs down heâll get my backing even though Iâm not looking to join the Alex Neil fan club. But the point stands - it's dodgy to keep changing managers if you don't have something like Watford's way of working. Whether we should adopt the Watford model is a separate issue and I think there is some merit in it but the fact is we are where we are and flip flopping managers would be a recipe for disaster. I really don't think Neil is your sort of manager - he's a pragmatist. We may hit 4 or 5 every now and again but he'll also happily grind out a few 0-0s if it means making the the playoffs or promotion. I like him - my sort of manager. Obviously I donât expect it every week but itâs nice to bag a decent amount of goals on a regular basis. Weâve fired some blanks recently but Iâm still very impressed by our scoring exploits in 2023 and wasnât at all down hearted when we did so against Blackpool and Millwall despite bossing the games by all other metrics. No doubt about the fact Iâve no time for grinding football but if itâs not too often I just have to tolerate it. Compared with some of our previous managers Iâve suffered itâs positively electrifying. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 12, 2023 14:28:09 GMT
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Post by biglad180 on Apr 12, 2023 14:31:38 GMT
Micky mouse club.must like paying compentation out.
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 12, 2023 14:42:52 GMT
Micky mouse club.must like paying compentation out. I would imagine they structure deals in such a way that doesnât give the manager a massive payout every time. Otherwise the model is barmy. Something like âif you donât achieve x, y and z by this date, we can fire you with only 3 months compoâ Iâd imagine. |
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Post by nott1 on Apr 12, 2023 16:20:32 GMT
Perhaps they should be spending their money on players instead of managers?
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