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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 8, 2023 13:37:36 GMT
12th manager in less than 5 seasons!! And during those 5 seasons they have outperformed us, got relegated got promoted and reached the FA Cup final. Go figure With the polar opposite model, we were in the Premier League for ten years, also reached an FA Cup Final and played in Europe. We also finished in the top half three times when their highest finish was 11th and didn't spend our time yo-yoing between divisions. I'm not saying that things have gone well for us in the last five years, but I don't think that Watford are something to aspire to.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 8, 2023 13:48:32 GMT
And during those 5 seasons they have outperformed us, got relegated got promoted and reached the FA Cup final. Go figure With the polar opposite model, we were in the Premier League for ten years, also reached an FA Cup Final and played in Europe. We also finished in the top half three times when their highest finish was 11th and didn't spend our time yo-yoing between divisions. I'm not saying that things have gone well for us in the last five years, but I don't think that Watford are something to aspire to. As already posted their model is not dissimilar to Chelsea Under Abramovic then the comparison of one model vs another wouldn’t favour your argument.
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Post by idle on Mar 8, 2023 14:03:11 GMT
With the polar opposite model, we were in the Premier League for ten years, also reached an FA Cup Final and played in Europe. We also finished in the top half three times when their highest finish was 11th and didn't spend our time yo-yoing between divisions. I'm not saying that things have gone well for us in the last five years, but I don't think that Watford are something to aspire to. As already posted their model is not dissimilar to Chelsea Under Abramovic then the comparison of one model vs another wouldn’t favour your argument. Abramovich did put in silly amounts of money though, much more than Coates' or the Watford owners. Even so I agree it would be a better model for running the club than the reset every 1-3 years we seem to do.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 8, 2023 14:14:51 GMT
Christ, absolutely staggering when you look at it like that😂 Pittsburgh Steelers have apparently had just THREE Head Coaches since 1969.
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Post by shakermaker on Mar 8, 2023 14:33:47 GMT
Sack a cup finalist manager after 4 games!! What like we sacked a promotion winning manager after 0 games? The timing of a decision can be exposed as folly in hindsight in any set up. See sacking MON after 5 games a clubs reservations about an employee can’t rationally manifest themselves over such a short period, so the doubt obviously existed beforehand. If the doubt exists it should be acted upon at a strategic point 4,5,6 games into a new season seems like failure to act on that doubt to me and makes the Gudjon example seem well planned, considered and acted upon appropriately. The fiasco that followed doesn’t change that. We were incredibly lucky to be promoted under Gudjon. Without Super James's 90th minute equaliser, we were staring another season in League One straight down the barrel. Our form over the last 20 games hadn't been particularly great either. I don't think the Board had enough faith that Gudjon had it in him to keep us in the Championship, and neither am I to be honest.
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Post by dirtclod on Mar 8, 2023 15:01:34 GMT
So the egg-timer went off again. We'll need to start a new thread "Watford - Manager of the Week"
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 8, 2023 15:35:38 GMT
Odd situation, but one they are happy with. Must be interesting to be a Watford supporter, can't really get behind a manager, different set-ups season after 1/2 season. Like I said all a bit odd. Players must wonder if they are coming or going at times.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 8, 2023 16:28:19 GMT
Sack a cup finalist manager after 4 games!! What is it about the words “extreme example” you don’t understand? Chelsea under Abramovic is a slightly less extreme example of the same philosophy but it was highly successful so that wouldn’t suit the argument against it. It’s a far more logical set up than the god manager set up we employ. You can't say it was highly successful without knowing what would have happened otherwise. Based on the money spent, Chelsea should have won more than they have IMO. They've underperformed, and the regular change in manager can't have helped. And on the flipside, look at Arsenal and Forest this season. There have been regular calls for Arteta's sacking throughout his time at Arsenal. Forest gave Cooper a new contract when they were bottom of the Premier League, and now they're in with a very good shot of staying up. People (including some Liverpool fans) were calling time on Klopp, yet look at their latest result, and most wouldn't bet against them finishing in the Premier League top 4 again. I'm not saying managers should always be stuck with, but the churn at Watford and some other clubs is ridiculous. Throw enough brown stuff at the fan, and eventually some of it will stick.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 8, 2023 16:38:04 GMT
What is it about the words “extreme example” you don’t understand? Chelsea under Abramovic is a slightly less extreme example of the same philosophy but it was highly successful so that wouldn’t suit the argument against it. It’s a far more logical set up than the god manager set up we employ. You can't say it was highly successful without knowing what would have happened otherwise. Based on the money spent, Chelsea should have won more than they have IMO. They've underperformed, and the regular change in manager can't have helped. And on the flipside, look at Arsenal and Forest this season. There have been regular calls for Arteta's sacking throughout his time at Arsenal. Forest gave Cooper a new contract when they were bottom of the Premier League, and now they're in with a very good shot of staying up. People (including some Liverpool fans) were calling time on Klopp, yet look at their latest result, and most wouldn't bet against them finishing in the Premier League top 4 again. I'm not saying managers should always be stuck with, but the churn at Watford and some other clubs is ridiculous. Throw enough brown stuff at the fan, and eventually some of it will stick. Chelsea under performed in the Abramovic era yeah ok right. Won the champions league under De Matteo maybe he should still be their manager lol. It would be far harder to think of one of their numerous managers that didn't win a trophy than those that did.
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Post by femark on Mar 8, 2023 16:51:57 GMT
Variety is the spice of life!
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 8, 2023 16:52:48 GMT
You can't say it was highly successful without knowing what would have happened otherwise. Based on the money spent, Chelsea should have won more than they have IMO. They've underperformed, and the regular change in manager can't have helped. And on the flipside, look at Arsenal and Forest this season. There have been regular calls for Arteta's sacking throughout his time at Arsenal. Forest gave Cooper a new contract when they were bottom of the Premier League, and now they're in with a very good shot of staying up. People (including some Liverpool fans) were calling time on Klopp, yet look at their latest result, and most wouldn't bet against them finishing in the Premier League top 4 again. I'm not saying managers should always be stuck with, but the churn at Watford and some other clubs is ridiculous. Throw enough brown stuff at the fan, and eventually some of it will stick. Chelsea under performed in the Abramovic era yeah ok right. Won the champions league under De Matteo maybe he should still be their manager lol. It would be far harder to think of one of their numerous managers that didn't win a trophy than those that did. Chelsea did underperform in the 2010s. They did better in the 00s when they generally stuck with managers for longer. Only Man City spent more on transfers in the 2010s. Compare the record of their Premier League finishes to Chelsea's. Guardiola hasn't finished lower than 2nd since his first title at Man City. Chelsea have finished outside the fabled top 4 a few times. If they'd kept Conte instead of appointing Sarri and then Lampard, I reckon they'd be up there challenging for the title.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 8, 2023 17:30:49 GMT
Who's in charge of Watford, Putin?
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Mar 8, 2023 17:33:17 GMT
Will Wilder be there by the time we go there?!
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Post by a on Mar 8, 2023 23:31:13 GMT
And during those 5 seasons they have outperformed us, got relegated got promoted and reached the FA Cup final. Go figure With the polar opposite model, we were in the Premier League for ten years, also reached an FA Cup Final and played in Europe. We also finished in the top half three times when their highest finish was 11th and didn't spend our time yo-yoing between divisions. I'm not saying that things have gone well for us in the last five years, but I don't think that Watford are something to aspire to. And with just two managers, and for probably less money considering severance pay. Funny how things can be twisted!
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 8, 2023 23:49:56 GMT
With the polar opposite model, we were in the Premier League for ten years, also reached an FA Cup Final and played in Europe. We also finished in the top half three times when their highest finish was 11th and didn't spend our time yo-yoing between divisions. I'm not saying that things have gone well for us in the last five years, but I don't think that Watford are something to aspire to. As already posted their model is not dissimilar to Chelsea Under Abramovic then the comparison of one model vs another wouldn’t favour your argument. I know what you're saying, but it's not really my point. Stoke and Watford are similar-sized clubs with similar financial backing - or at least similar enough to be a fairer comparison than Chelsea. Both systems brought success and both have led to failure. Personally, I prefer our way on the general principle that I dislike treating humans as disposable commodities. It's only the money and reward that makes it semi-acceptable in football.
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Post by prudhoe on Mar 9, 2023 0:03:21 GMT
People laugh at Watford but i for one admire the ambition of their board. This is what we expect. Deliver it or get out. A big problem at Stoke for years now is when a manager needs sacking, the people in the boardroom are the last ones in the stadium that can see it.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 9, 2023 11:43:23 GMT
People laugh at Watford but i for one admire the ambition of their board. This is what we expect. Deliver it or get out. A big problem at Stoke for years now is when a manager needs sacking, the people in the boardroom are the last ones in the stadium that can see it. One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 9, 2023 12:15:06 GMT
People laugh at Watford but i for one admire the ambition of their board. This is what we expect. Deliver it or get out. A big problem at Stoke for years now is when a manager needs sacking, the people in the boardroom are the last ones in the stadium that can see it. One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition. You’re completely discounting the notion that the play offs could be what they deem as unsatisfactory performance. Our fans seem obsessed with the play offs personally I think it’s a proper naff ambition. Proper ambition is to win the league and only settle for second place automatic promotion as an acceptable under performance. People expect immediate success because the evidence of leaving an under performing manager in post for longer and they turn it around and become successful is extremely scant. SAF then who?
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 9, 2023 12:15:06 GMT
People laugh at Watford but i for one admire the ambition of their board. This is what we expect. Deliver it or get out. A big problem at Stoke for years now is when a manager needs sacking, the people in the boardroom are the last ones in the stadium that can see it. One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition. No, it's completely stupid. What did they want? 33 points from the first 11 games of Edwards' reign?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 9, 2023 12:17:41 GMT
One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition. No, it's completely stupid. What did they want? 33 points from the first 11 games of Edwards' reign? What would be unrealistic about them expecting to be top of the league or at least in the top 2?
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 9, 2023 14:46:33 GMT
One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition. You’re completely discounting the notion that the play offs could be what they deem as unsatisfactory performance. Our fans seem obsessed with the play offs personally I think it’s a proper naff ambition. Proper ambition is to win the league and only settle for second place automatic promotion as an acceptable under performance. People expect immediate success because the evidence of leaving an under performing manager in post for longer and they turn it around and become successful is extremely scant. SAF then who? I'm not discounting that at all. The Championship season runs over 46 games, not 11. While it can give some indication (especially Sheffield Utd and Burnley this season), the table after 11 games generally isn't a reflection of what the table looks like at the end of the season. Watford were 4 points off second place when Edwards was sacked. By SAF, do you mean Alex Ferguson? He was 'under performing' and there were calls for him to be sacked in his early Man Utd days. I've already mentioned Arteta and Cooper in response to your earlier reply. That's despite the modern trend of sacking managers for the first bad run of results. Ferguson was also given time to rebuild teams, and maybe Klopp is now for Liverpool. His Liverpool didn't even get anywhere near the Premier League top 4 in his first season.
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Post by lordb on Mar 9, 2023 15:08:21 GMT
No, it's completely stupid. What did they want? 33 points from the first 11 games of Edwards' reign? What would be unrealistic about them expecting to be top of the league or at least in the top 2? expecting? why would they have expected to finish above the other relegated P/L parachute payment sides Burnley & Norwich? If your in around play offs within first quarter of the season after appointing a new manager you may be disappointed but generally you expect a club to back their new man whilst pushing him to pick up & challenge for top 2 by half way point of season Rob Edwards is showing at Luton he's a decent manager, can't see anything to suggest Bilic has done any better than Edwards would have done & see nothing now to suggest Wilder will do better than Bilic Appreciate Stoke have hung into managers too long, Hughes & O'Neill should both have been sacked the summer before they did, but having 3 (or more) managers a season is not going to result in long term stable success Fully expect to be playing Watford next season in The Championship
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 9, 2023 15:14:30 GMT
You’re completely discounting the notion that the play offs could be what they deem as unsatisfactory performance. Our fans seem obsessed with the play offs personally I think it’s a proper naff ambition. Proper ambition is to win the league and only settle for second place automatic promotion as an acceptable under performance. People expect immediate success because the evidence of leaving an under performing manager in post for longer and they turn it around and become successful is extremely scant. SAF then who? I'm not discounting that at all. The Championship season runs over 46 games, not 11. While it can give some indication (especially Sheffield Utd and Burnley this season), the table after 11 games generally isn't a reflection of what the table looks like at the end of the season. Watford were 4 points off second place when Edwards was sacked. By SAF, do you mean Alex Ferguson? He was 'under performing' and there were calls for him to be sacked in his early Man Utd days. I've already mentioned Arteta and Cooper in response to your earlier reply. That's despite the modern trend of sacking managers for the first bad run of results. Ferguson was also given time to rebuild teams, and maybe Klopp is now for Liverpool. His Liverpool didn't even get anywhere near the Premier League top 4 in his first season. As I said scant evidence that it’s a policy that pays off. For each of those names you could probably list ten or more managers who’ve won promotion or silverware in their first 12months in charge. I’m glad Klopp is getting the opportunity to rebuild, I think he’s quite a special manager but they are few and far between. Generally speaking if there is any doubt over them at the end of a season I think they should be gone. Sacking a manager who’s been given the entire budget and Summer after 5 games smacks of incompetence and indecision especially under our system where the manager controls nearly every aspect of the football side of the club. I don’t think it’s healthy to place so much faith in any individual that’s one argument and timing is another entirely. I suppose it’s difficult to know when a relationship will become untenable.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 9, 2023 15:21:05 GMT
What would be unrealistic about them expecting to be top of the league or at least in the top 2? expecting? why would they have expected to finish above the other relegated P/L parachute payment sides Burnley & Norwich? If your in around play offs within first quarter of the season after appointing a new manager you may be disappointed but generally you expect a club to back their new man whilst pushing him to pick up & challenge for top 2 by half way point of season Rob Edwards is showing at Luton he's a decent manager, can't see anything to suggest Bilic has done any better than Edwards would have done & see nothing now to suggest Wilder will do better than Bilic Appreciate Stoke have hung into managers too long, Hughes & O'Neill should both have been sacked the summer before they did, but having 3 (or more) managers a season is not going to result in long term stable success Fully expect to be playing Watford next season in The Championship Yeah expecting definitely. Looking at their squad at the end of the Summer window I would have expected them to be in the top 2 and one of the most potent attacking teams in the division more so than the current top 2.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 9, 2023 20:09:12 GMT
I'm not discounting that at all. The Championship season runs over 46 games, not 11. While it can give some indication (especially Sheffield Utd and Burnley this season), the table after 11 games generally isn't a reflection of what the table looks like at the end of the season. Watford were 4 points off second place when Edwards was sacked. By SAF, do you mean Alex Ferguson? He was 'under performing' and there were calls for him to be sacked in his early Man Utd days. I've already mentioned Arteta and Cooper in response to your earlier reply. That's despite the modern trend of sacking managers for the first bad run of results. Ferguson was also given time to rebuild teams, and maybe Klopp is now for Liverpool. His Liverpool didn't even get anywhere near the Premier League top 4 in his first season. As I said scant evidence that it’s a policy that pays off. For each of those names you could probably list ten or more managers who’ve won promotion or silverware in their first 12months in charge. I’m glad Klopp is getting the opportunity to rebuild, I think he’s quite a special manager but they are few and far between. Generally speaking if there is any doubt over them at the end of a season I think they should be gone. Sacking a manager who’s been given the entire budget and Summer after 5 games smacks of incompetence and indecision especially under our system where the manager controls nearly every aspect of the football side of the club. I don’t think it’s healthy to place so much faith in any individual that’s one argument and timing is another entirely. I suppose it’s difficult to know when a relationship will become untenable. As I said, the modern trend is to sack managers after a bad run. As a result, there will obviously be fewer examples of sticking by a manager and doing well. To Arteta and Cooper, I could add Frank, Guardiola (there have been calls for his sacking on a couple of occasions when Man City were underperforming), and Klopp. That's 25% of the division. Unlike Abramovic, hopefully the Man City and Liverpool owners know it's impossible to win the league every year, or perhaps even finish in the top 4. In the Championship, there's Mark Robins, who has taken Coventry from the bottom of League One. Millwall under Rowett. Just because Stoke sacked a couple of managers too late, it doesn't mean the Watford system is the way forward. Like I also said already, if you throw enough brown stuff at the fan, some of it will eventually stick. I wonder how many £millions Watford have wasted on compensation that could've instead strengthened the playing side. The data's available for anyone who can be bothered to analyse it. Here's some but from 8 years ago: www.theguardian.com/football/football-management-blog/2014/feb/21/football-managers-sackings-premier-league
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 9, 2023 20:53:50 GMT
As I said scant evidence that it’s a policy that pays off. For each of those names you could probably list ten or more managers who’ve won promotion or silverware in their first 12months in charge. I’m glad Klopp is getting the opportunity to rebuild, I think he’s quite a special manager but they are few and far between. Generally speaking if there is any doubt over them at the end of a season I think they should be gone. Sacking a manager who’s been given the entire budget and Summer after 5 games smacks of incompetence and indecision especially under our system where the manager controls nearly every aspect of the football side of the club. I don’t think it’s healthy to place so much faith in any individual that’s one argument and timing is another entirely. I suppose it’s difficult to know when a relationship will become untenable. As I said, the modern trend is to sack managers after a bad run. As a result, there will obviously be fewer examples of sticking by a manager and doing well. To Arteta and Cooper, I could add Frank, Guardiola (there have been calls for his sacking on a couple of occasions when Man City were underperforming), and Klopp. That's 25% of the division. Unlike Abramovic, hopefully the Man City and Liverpool owners know it's impossible to win the league every year, or perhaps even finish in the top 4. In the Championship, there's Mark Robins, who has taken Coventry from the bottom of League One. Millwall under Rowett. Just because Stoke sacked a couple of managers too late, it doesn't mean the Watford system is the way forward. Like I also said already, if you throw enough brown stuff at the fan, some of it will eventually stick. I wonder how many £millions Watford have wasted on compensation that could've instead strengthened the playing side. The data's available for anyone who can be bothered to analyse it. Here's some but from 8 years ago: www.theguardian.com/football/football-management-blog/2014/feb/21/football-managers-sackings-premier-leagueSorry you’ve obviously got a belief that patience is rewarded but I don’t think you have any data to back that up at all. The link you’ve posted really isn’t data at all and is nothing to do with success anyway it’s to do with avoiding relegation. Hard data particularly with reference to the subject would be an analasys of average time in post for managers winning promotion from the championship. I haven’t done it but my instinct is it would be far shorter than the championship managers you’ve named who you think have been a success due to patience. Having a preference for an approach is fine but when you try to back it up with bollox it doesn’t prove your preference is borne out by fact.
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Post by mattythestokie on Mar 9, 2023 21:03:57 GMT
People laugh at Watford but i for one admire the ambition of their board. This is what we expect. Deliver it or get out. A big problem at Stoke for years now is when a manager needs sacking, the people in the boardroom are the last ones in the stadium that can see it. One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition. Edwards who’s now in charge of their rivals Luton who also sit 5 places higher than them. Pretty hilarious story really. The Watford fans I know were all gutted Edwards left. They were told by the owners that it was time to stick with a manager and they were going to do that ‘come hell or high water’. Obviously hell or high water only travels as far as just the 11 games. It’s frustrating they can attract someone like Wilder with their model. You’d expect he’ll get a bounce at a crucial part of the season.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 9, 2023 22:07:14 GMT
As I said, the modern trend is to sack managers after a bad run. As a result, there will obviously be fewer examples of sticking by a manager and doing well. To Arteta and Cooper, I could add Frank, Guardiola (there have been calls for his sacking on a couple of occasions when Man City were underperforming), and Klopp. That's 25% of the division. Unlike Abramovic, hopefully the Man City and Liverpool owners know it's impossible to win the league every year, or perhaps even finish in the top 4. In the Championship, there's Mark Robins, who has taken Coventry from the bottom of League One. Millwall under Rowett. Just because Stoke sacked a couple of managers too late, it doesn't mean the Watford system is the way forward. Like I also said already, if you throw enough brown stuff at the fan, some of it will eventually stick. I wonder how many £millions Watford have wasted on compensation that could've instead strengthened the playing side. The data's available for anyone who can be bothered to analyse it. Here's some but from 8 years ago: www.theguardian.com/football/football-management-blog/2014/feb/21/football-managers-sackings-premier-leagueSorry you’ve obviously got a belief that patience is rewarded but I don’t think you have any data to back that up at all. The link you’ve posted really isn’t data at all and is nothing to do with success anyway it’s to do with avoiding relegation. Hard data particularly with reference to the subject would be an analasys of average time in post for managers winning promotion from the championship. I haven’t done it but my instinct is it would be far shorter than the championship managers you’ve named who you think have been a success due to patience. Having a preference for an approach is fine but when you try to back it up with bollox it doesn’t prove your preference is borne out by fact. I think you're trying to put words into my mouth. I even said a couple of Stoke managers were sacked too late. It doesn't have to be so black and white that one way is right and the other is wrong. Edwards sacked from Watford after 11 games was ridiculous. Jones sacked from Southampton after 14 games wasn't.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 9, 2023 22:09:30 GMT
One of the biggest problems these days is the amount of people who expect immediate success. Watford are only 4 points off the playoffs, and anyone who respects the Championship properly knows what a difficult league it can be to get out of. Bilic has only had half a season. When Rob Edwards was sacked earlier this season, Watford were only 1 point off the playoffs. They gave Edwards 11 games. Sacking him at that stage is not what I call ambition. Edwards who’s now in charge of their rivals Luton who also sit 5 places higher than them. Pretty hilarious story really. The Watford fans I know were all gutted Edwards left. They were told by the owners that it was time to stick with a manager and they were going to do that ‘come hell or high water’. Obviously hell or high water only travels as far as just the 11 games. It’s frustrating they can attract someone like Wilder with their model. You’d expect he’ll get a bounce at a crucial part of the season. Wilder will back himself like most managers, and his contract is only until the end of the season. Going to Watford and being sacked has become meaningless. I doubt it has a negative impact on anyone's future career.
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Post by lordb on Mar 9, 2023 22:48:06 GMT
As I said, the modern trend is to sack managers after a bad run. As a result, there will obviously be fewer examples of sticking by a manager and doing well. To Arteta and Cooper, I could add Frank, Guardiola (there have been calls for his sacking on a couple of occasions when Man City were underperforming), and Klopp. That's 25% of the division. Unlike Abramovic, hopefully the Man City and Liverpool owners know it's impossible to win the league every year, or perhaps even finish in the top 4. In the Championship, there's Mark Robins, who has taken Coventry from the bottom of League One. Millwall under Rowett. Just because Stoke sacked a couple of managers too late, it doesn't mean the Watford system is the way forward. Like I also said already, if you throw enough brown stuff at the fan, some of it will eventually stick. I wonder how many £millions Watford have wasted on compensation that could've instead strengthened the playing side. The data's available for anyone who can be bothered to analyse it. Here's some but from 8 years ago: www.theguardian.com/football/football-management-blog/2014/feb/21/football-managers-sackings-premier-leagueSorry you’ve obviously got a belief that patience is rewarded but I don’t think you have any data to back that up at all. The link you’ve posted really isn’t data at all and is nothing to do with success anyway it’s to do with avoiding relegation. Hard data particularly with reference to the subject would be an analasys of average time in post for managers winning promotion from the championship. I haven’t done it but my instinct is it would be far shorter than the championship managers you’ve named who you think have been a success due to patience. Having a preference for an approach is fine but when you try to back it up with bollox it doesn’t prove your preference is borne out by fact. Arteta? Arsenal currently being rewarded for pateince By the Watford model Stoke would have sacked Waddington, Durban, Macari, Tbordason and Pulis because none achieved absolute instant success 3 months is not enough time.
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