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Post by a on Jan 19, 2023 12:08:02 GMT
Not saying I want him back but FFS his football when he played 4-4-2 pisses all of the shit we have been watching for the past six seasons He played 4-4-1-1. It wasn't so much a criticism as a fact. To be fair I quite like, possibly prefer, a tricky, pacy winger who can whip in a decent cross and cut inside occasionally. Even Michael kightly would look a superstar in the current side!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2023 12:09:38 GMT
If that's true its irrelevant really because we had the top budget in the league when we came down and had the most expensive team in the league for the first 3 seasons down. Realistically Rowett should have had us top 6 even without being given the biggest budget in the division That's completely ignoring the context when they took over. Rowett inherited a completely dysfunctional squad of wasters and a club with ridiculously high expectations given the state we were in. Pulis inherited an average but functional squad with high hopes a no expectations. It really isn't how much you throw money at a problem - it depends on how big the problem is in the first place and some problems can't be solved by money alone. £50m could have solved quite a few of our problems if the cretin entrusted with spending it had had half a brain.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2023 12:10:56 GMT
He played 4-4-1-1. It wasn't so much a criticism as a fact. To be fair I quite like, possibly prefer, a tricky, pacy winger who can whip in a decent cross and cut inside occasionally. Even Michael kightly would look a superstar in the current side! Do they still exist though really? Genuine question, I honestly don't know.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 19, 2023 12:11:08 GMT
Goodness knows how he did it but did it he did. It had been a quarter of a century and 12 managers since we were last in the top flight before the great man rode in to town. He gave us back our pride and our top flight status and kept us there for 5 years without any hint of a relegation. For good measure he threw in our only ever victories in Europe and the only FA Cup Final in the history of the football club. He scaled Kilimanjaro for the Donna Louise trust and rushed back to Stoke to oversee a victory in a night match on the day of the death of his own mother. At some point after his passing a statue will be erected in his name. For now he is was and remains a living legend. Excellent post but I do remember us beating Kaiserslautern 3-1 under Waddo in 1972, admittedly this was only the first leg of a two legged tie that we eventually lost but a win is a win. Well we gave it a go. At the time bringing in a winger like Jimmy Robertson and Geoff Hurst was quite a statement of intent from Stoke.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 19, 2023 12:14:26 GMT
It's worth remembering that TP worked directly with John Rudge, a 100% football man with a wealth of managerial experience and a long track record of impressive signings at both Vale and Stoke Rudgie's book is out later this year apparently. Should be interesting. Will it outsell Harry's "Spare"? I can't wait to hear his take on the Coventry note passing incident, plus any stuff about his garden!
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 19, 2023 12:16:50 GMT
What we need right now more than anything is to sign players with the Pulis/Stoke DNA, leaders, fighters, desire, commitment, a desperation not to lose. Everything basically the current crop of players do not posses. I enjoyed the Under 18's video from last week where although not their best performance they found a way to win with grit, determination and togetherness. You can have all the technical ability in the world but if you don't have those attributes you win nothing. 100% Like I said this isn't designed to be a bring back Pulis thread. But would it be so bad if he had a role with an input on signings. Could he be the defensive scout or the bloke we use to identify a target man
[/b] Maybe he could finally find us someone to play the "Mama" role!
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 19, 2023 12:19:09 GMT
Rudgie's book is out later this year apparently. Should be interesting. Will it outsell Harry's "Spare"? I can't wait to hear his take on the Coventry note passing incident, plus any stuff about his garden! An audio book with the voiceover done by or in the style of Johan Boskamp. It would be comedy gold.
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Post by philb on Jan 19, 2023 12:25:37 GMT
It's worth remembering that TP worked directly with John Rudge, a 100% football man with a wealth of managerial experience and a long track record of impressive signings at both Vale and Stoke Rudgie's book is out later this year apparently. Should be interesting. Wonder if they’ll be any mention of Canadia 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 19, 2023 12:34:03 GMT
Will it outsell Harry's "Spare"? I can't wait to hear his take on the Coventry note passing incident, plus any stuff about his garden! An audio book with the voiceover done by or in the style of Johan Boskamp. It would be comedy gold. Those were the days! Has made me quite nostalgic for the early version of the Stoke City comedy show! I'm going to "shmoke my oatcake".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 12:44:46 GMT
According to Scotland U21 coach Scott Gemill, simplicity, clarity ( everyone knows exactly what their role is , as soon as they see the team sheet) and having 11 guys who actually WANT to play for you ,is a big thing in football ( 5 mins video, he explains better than me )
This is something TP got very right , when Stoke were on the rise , people with big reputations from big clubs like ethers and pennant, came here to put a shift in. And people with lesser reputations like sidibe and cresswell , came here to surprise us and show that come match day they could pull weight . There was clearly a Stoke way of doing things.
Do we still have these ingredients now?
I am not convinced simplicity, clarity,a Stoke way of doing things and 11 players who want to play for the club, is what we get , when match day comes round to the bet365
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Post by anchorman on Jan 19, 2023 13:02:34 GMT
100% Like I said this isn't designed to be a bring back Pulis thread. But would it be so bad if he had a role with an input on signings. Could he be the defensive scout or the bloke we use to identify a target man So long as you don't want any full backs or creative midfielders... Just players that actually give a shit would be a start!
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Post by jukeboxjury on Jan 19, 2023 13:04:44 GMT
Firstly, this is not designed to be a bring back Pulis argument. That's a different debate all together. Love him or hate him however, even though like all managers he made some transfer errors he managed to get decent players in even when we hadn't got a pot to piss in. I look at our forward line now and they are useless. And I look at our transfer budget and I can't think how we can fix it. But TP brought in Noel-Williams and Akinbiyi both as free transfers and made them a partnership to be reckoned with. He didn't say "we're fucked" he said who can I sign for for free that will fit my tactics. Neither of them were world beaters but I always felt we were in with a chance of winning with them as a forward line. Higginbotham 225k (an elite CB at this level) clint Hill (free?), Griffin 300k, taggart etc etc etc. Yet our recent managers and transfer team have made so many errors in this department. The main goals that promoted us were fuller, Lawrence and Cresswell. Fuller cost 500k, Lawrence and Cresswell what do we reckon about the same? Yet don't get me started on what we spunked on Afobe, Ince, vokes, Brown and then all the loans as well. How did he do it so often? Yes players were cheaper then but a lot of his signings were bargains even back then. And his loans were more impactive. Hendrie, Berger, Diao, Crossley, Nash, Shawcross initially etc etc. Is it down to managers picking their own players back then rather than scouts and DOF picking the players for them? Was he just a better manager than anyone we have had since we came back down? Why can't our recent managers have a similar success rate? Some good points there. I think partly the problem has been that the club are seen as an easy touch because of the wealth of the owners. We always seem to have the upper hand in the bargain basement department and this is not helping our cause. Finding another Fuller is not going to happen. At least the academy is bringing young talent to the fore which can only be a good sign for the future.
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Post by Davef on Jan 19, 2023 13:06:05 GMT
Excellent post but I do remember us beating Kaiserslautern 3-1 under Waddo in 1972, admittedly this was only the first leg of a two legged tie that we eventually lost but a win is a win. We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! You're also forgetting that Waddington's team qualified for Europe by actually achieving something, a cup win and a high league position. We basically qualified for Europe in 2011 because we drew Bolton in a semi final.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 19, 2023 13:08:59 GMT
At the time most people on here thought Cresswell and Sidibe were both crap, Jones was a lazy arse, Jerome was inconsistent and couldn't cut it at that level, and Crouch was a a waste of money, but of course, history is there to be re-written.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 19, 2023 13:10:53 GMT
I think a lot underestimate the discovery (by all accounts a complete accident) of the Delap throw. It completely changed the dynamics of our game plan. If truth be known every manager around would have done the same and recruited accordingly. The throw was a lot more effective in the Prem than it was in the Championship. If it wasn't for Delap's throws we would have got relegated more or less straight away, I'm 100% convinced. You've only got to watch the season's highlights to see the impact it had. But credit to TP for utilising it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2023 13:12:08 GMT
So long as you don't want any full backs or creative midfielders... Just players that actually give a shit would be a start! I think most of them do tbf, they're just a bit of a disorganised mess.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 19, 2023 13:15:11 GMT
Excellent post but I do remember us beating Kaiserslautern 3-1 under Waddo in 1972, admittedly this was only the first leg of a two legged tie that we eventually lost but a win is a win. We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! Ajax game was amazing. We went neck to neck with a truly great team, even with Cruyff they were phenomenal with the ball. I'd never seen anything like it at the time. A bit like Man City now really, but back then it was revolutionary.
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Post by st3mark on Jan 19, 2023 13:59:09 GMT
At the time most people on here thought Cresswell and Sidibe were both crap, Jones was a lazy arse, Jerome was inconsistent and couldn't cut it at that level, and Crouch was a a waste of money, but of course, history is there to be re-written. Cresswell and Sibibe were a massive part of the game plan during one of the best seasons in the clubs history. Cresswell scoring double figures from left wing. Anyone who thought they were crap should rewatch some of this seasons matches. Jones, Jerome and Crouch were good signings in my opinion but were all Prem signings.
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Post by Gods on Jan 19, 2023 14:23:57 GMT
We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! Ajax game was amazing. We went neck to neck with a truly great team, even with Cruyff they were phenomenal with the ball. I'd never seen anything like it at the time. A bit like Man City now really, but back then it was revolutionary. This is true, the then mighty Ajax of Amsterdam were something to behold. I was in the Boothen Paddock with my dad, I seem to remember the gate was circa 34,000.
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Post by Gods on Jan 19, 2023 14:29:11 GMT
We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! You're also forgetting that Waddington's team qualified for Europe by actually achieving something, a cup win and a high league position. We basically qualified for Europe in 2011 because we drew Bolton in a semi final. Well that's one way of looking at it. In respect of the Waddington league finish it was also a different time. You didn't have 7 clubs who had gone super-sized. It was a 5th place league finish which won us the UEFA Cup place where we played Ajax. That same season Ipswich finished 4th and Derby finished 3rd.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 14:42:14 GMT
To be fair I quite like, possibly prefer, a tricky, pacy winger who can whip in a decent cross and cut inside occasionally. Even Michael kightly would look a superstar in the current side! Do they still exist though really? Genuine question, I honestly don't know. Er , they exist but they are very expensive. You know what you are going to get with Pep's man city , they will knock the ball around very quickly to pull you out of shape and then slice you open with a killer ball . If for some reason that's not working ( it usually does ) then grealish and Mahrez will end up on the pitch, picking up the ball wide and running straight at defenders ,just like the good old days. Once they have ran past 2 defenders in about 3 seconds, the opposition really will be skittled , and in will come the killer ball. As plan B's go , it's a very good, very expensive plan B.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2023 14:48:19 GMT
Do they still exist though really? Genuine question, I honestly don't know. Er , they exist but they are very expensive. You know what you are going to get with Pep's man city , they will knock the ball around very quickly to pull you out of shape and then slice you open with a killer ball . If for some reason that's not working ( it usually does ) then grealish and Mahrez will end up on the pitch, picking up the ball wide and running straight at defenders ,just like the good old days. Once they have ran past 2 defenders in about 3 seconds, the opposition really will be skittled , and in will come the killer ball. As plan B's go , it's a very good, very expensive plan B. I was thinking more of the classic, chalk on the boots winger really, in the Etherington mould.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 19, 2023 17:37:02 GMT
If you see a player with white powder on their boots nowadays, you've got to start asking serious questions.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 19, 2023 17:41:15 GMT
We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! Ajax game was amazing. We went neck to neck with a truly great team, even with Cruyff they were phenomenal with the ball. I'd never seen anything like it at the time. A bit like Man City now really, but back then it was revolutionary. We had a proper team in the 70's not like the shit we have now!
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 19, 2023 17:47:07 GMT
At the time most people on here thought Cresswell and Sidibe were both crap, Jones was a lazy arse, Jerome was inconsistent and couldn't cut it at that level, and Crouch was a a waste of money, but of course, history is there to be re-written. That's all pretty true. The former were both extremely poor players by top tier standards. Jones was often very lazy but had the power and physicality for the type of football that Crouch could never match and Jerome was pretty meh. We played our best football under Pulis with Jones in the team, he should only have been replaced by a better version of the same thing but we replaced him with Crouch who was like watching an empty crisp packet being blown around in a gentle breeze.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 19, 2023 18:01:38 GMT
Just players that actually give a shit would be a start! I think most of them do tbf, they're just a bit of a disorganised mess. Isincerely hope that's the case...we just need someone to organise them...Isn't that the manager's job?...........
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Post by a on Jan 19, 2023 18:33:43 GMT
To be fair I quite like, possibly prefer, a tricky, pacy winger who can whip in a decent cross and cut inside occasionally. Even Michael kightly would look a superstar in the current side! Do they still exist though really? Genuine question, I honestly don't know. erm, I dunno 😂 if not then they should! I loved having Pennant, Assaidi and of course Etherington bombing on, either crossing or cutting inside. Loved it.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 19, 2023 19:32:58 GMT
Pulis did well at finding value in players that nobody else looked at (both loans and permanent).
Fuller, Shawcross, Akinbiyi, Taggart, Etherington, Faye, Beattie, etc.
What did he describe us as? Battersea Dogs home? 😂
Ironically, his performance in the transfer market got worse the more money he had available to spend!
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Post by smallthorner on Jan 19, 2023 20:08:38 GMT
Excellent post but I do remember us beating Kaiserslautern 3-1 under Waddo in 1972, admittedly this was only the first leg of a two legged tie that we eventually lost but a win is a win. We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! Jonny Rep What a cluckin player. Cool as fook. Great night at the Vic.
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Post by Gods on Jan 19, 2023 20:18:34 GMT
We did indeed! And somehow contrived to lose the 2nd leg 4-0! The 2 legs against Ajax in 74 were more impressive. A 0-0 draw away and a 1-1 draw at home and so a defeat on 'away goals' ! Cruyff had just left Ajax by then but they still weren't too shabby, had Krol and Haan and Rep and one or two others! Jonny Rep What a cluckin player. Cool as fook. Great night at the Vic. Yes indeed. Denis Smith bundled in an equaliser but the Ajax team looked like they were from another planet! As for 'great night at the Vic' I think it may have been the best night ever, bar none.
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