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Post by ted1965 on Jan 5, 2023 13:56:47 GMT
At what point do we and the club start looking inwards for the state of this football club.
Since relegation we have had 4 managers and none of them have achieved anything irrespective of the players they have had to work with.
Gary Rowett, was obnoxious and he started conflict with the supporters which was only going to end one way especially as the results weren’t exactly wonderful yet since he lefthe has had moderate success at Millwall which we would have bitten off your hand for given what we are suffering.
Mad Nathan, he was a disaster here and yet back at Luton given his comfort zone reached the play offs again something we have never been close to since we came down. He’s now in the Premier League it doesn’t matter if he fails, his success at Luton afforded him the opportunity again something we can only dream of.
MON who knows if he will be successful again with Northern Ireland but he has an opportunity to redeem himself while we continue to stagnate.
AN, left Sunderland for us and I do wonder if he sleeps at night given how much of a mess we are in. Although maybe he was well aware of that before he jumped ship in which case we might need to test his sanity.
So with the exception of Sunderland it seems these failed managers have moved on to much better things in terms of results and getting a tune out of ordinary players in the most, meanwhile here we are with a squad that many pundits would describe as under achieving over the last 5 seasons wondering if we will survive in the Championship dogfight while the supporter of our managers past and present laugh their heads off at our downfall.
So if the managers aren’t as bad as they seemed while they were here at what point do those in charge start to look inwards for the issues that anchor us to the stagnation we are suffering.
The structure of the club needed to change after we were relegated, we were promised lessons had been learned and the club woul undergo a complete reboot, what we got was managerial change and the same backward thinking behind the scenes. Nobody felon their swords for the careless running of the club and its fall from grace. If we had done everything in their power to prevent relegation and it happened then that’s life and supporters just accept it and move on. In reality they closed their eyes and pretended it was not happening and left us to our fate.
Since then some changes have been made but where is the forward thinking we do the same things over and over and expect different results and seem genuinely surprised when we fail again and again. The managers have all been slightly different flavours of the same ice cream since we came down but all have proved they can gain a modicum of success at other clubs which one again makes you question our set up and how it doesn’t work.
We are owned in theory by one of the most successful gambling businesses in its sphere and yet we are run like Bobby Browns one man bookmakers, desperately hoping some punter doesn’t hit the jackpot and send us out of business. If Bet365 had been run like we are right now they would be lucky to afloat. I guarantee they recruit from the best available, if only they applied that to Stoke City things could be so much better.
I know we have to realistically work within our limits as a football club but surely we can still bring forward thinking people into the club and begin improving the product both on and off the field. If we can bring someone into the club with a good track record in recruitment surely this will help the manager and coaching staff give us a better end product and provide some much needed excitement on a match day.
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Post by LGH87 on Jan 5, 2023 14:02:22 GMT
At what point do we and the club start looking inwards for the state of this football club. Since relegation we have had 4 managers and none of them have achieved anything irrespective of the players they have had to work with. Gary Rowett, was obnoxious and he started conflict with the supporters which was only going to end one way especially as the results weren’t exactly wonderful yet since he lefthe has had moderate success at Millwall which we would have bitten off your hand for given what we are suffering. Mad Nathan, he was a disaster here and yet back at Luton given his comfort zone reached the play offs again something we have never been close to since we came down. He’s now in the Premier League it doesn’t matter if he fails, his success at Luton afforded him the opportunity again something we can only dream of. MON who knows if he will be successful again with Northern Ireland but he has an opportunity to redeem himself while we continue to stagnate. AN, left Sunderland for us and I do wonder if he sleeps at night given how much of a mess we are in. Although maybe he was well aware of that before he jumped ship in which case we might need to test his sanity. So with the exception of Sunderland it seems these failed managers have moved on to much better things in terms of results and getting a tune out of ordinary players in the most, meanwhile here we are with a squad that many pundits would describe as under achieving over the last 5 seasons wondering if we will survive in the Championship dogfight while the supporter of our managers past and present laugh their heads off at our downfall. So if the managers aren’t as bad as they seemed while they were here at what point do those in charge start to look inwards for the issues that anchor us to the stagnation we are suffering. The structure of the club needed to change after we were relegated, we were promised lessons had been learned and the club woul undergo a complete reboot, what we got was managerial change and the same backward thinking behind the scenes. Nobody felon their swords for the careless running of the club and its fall from grace. If we had done everything in their power to prevent relegation and it happened then that’s life and supporters just accept it and move on. In reality they closed their eyes and pretended it was not happening and left us to our fate. Since then some changes have been made but where is the forward thinking we do the same things over and over and expect different results and seem genuinely surprised when we fail again and again. The managers have all been slightly different flavours of the same ice cream since we came down but all have proved they can gain a modicum of success at other clubs which one again makes you question our set up and how it doesn’t work. We are owned in theory by one of the most successful gambling businesses in its sphere and yet we are run like Bobby Browns one man bookmakers, desperately hoping some punter doesn’t hit the jackpot and send us out of business. If Bet365 had been run like we are right now they would be lucky to afloat. I guarantee they recruit from the best available, if only they applied that to Stoke City things could be so much better. I know we have to realistically work within our limits as a football club but surely we can still bring forward thinking people into the club and begin improving the product both on and off the field. If we can bring someone into the club with a good track record in recruitment surely this will help the manager and coaching staff give us a better end product and provide some much needed excitement on a match day. bang on  |
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Post by callas12 on Jan 5, 2023 14:16:40 GMT
All great points. Sadly the likely conclusions or answers are well out of my jurisdiction of knowledge as merely a fan who keeps getting hoodwinked in to buying season tickets as 'next season will be different' occurs with me every Spring!
My only suggestion to the problems is we need to bin off 'Macron' as our kit makers pronto! We've been cursed with bad fortune ever since we signed up with them! Another nod to Mr Scholes 👏🏻
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 5, 2023 14:24:46 GMT
All great points. Sadly the likely conclusions or answers are well out of my jurisdiction of knowledge as merely a fan who keeps getting hoodwinked in to buying season tickets as 'next season will be different' occurs with me every Spring! My only suggestion to the problems is we need to bin off 'Macron' as our kit makers pronto! We've been cursed with bad fortune ever since we signed up with them! Another nod to Mr Scholes 👏🏻 Let's fuck the Eminem song off at the start of games while we're at it. |
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Post by callas12 on Jan 5, 2023 14:26:53 GMT
All great points. Sadly the likely conclusions or answers are well out of my jurisdiction of knowledge as merely a fan who keeps getting hoodwinked in to buying season tickets as 'next season will be different' occurs with me every Spring! My only suggestion to the problems is we need to bin off 'Macron' as our kit makers pronto! We've been cursed with bad fortune ever since we signed up with them! Another nod to Mr Scholes 👏🏻 Let's fuck the Eminem song off at the start of games while we're at it. & 'The Mighty Mighty Potters' has definitely had its day |
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Jan 5, 2023 14:32:51 GMT
Whats the plan going forward I don't think the owners have ever had a plan to be honest its all just hit & hope.
I don't see anything changing any time soon.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jan 5, 2023 14:34:38 GMT
Let's fuck the Eminem song off at the start of games while we're at it. & 'The Mighty Mighty Potters' has definitely had its day ‘And the bang average, runaround starts now Potters’ ? All done, of course, in the giddy style of ‘local DJ given radio mic’ |
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Post by biglad180 on Jan 5, 2023 15:02:59 GMT
we had Rowett,he spent a fortune at this club and did nothing but he is doing a good job at Millwall,Jones did fuck all here went back luton and did a great job at a small club with hardley has any money,so even though we wanted them out and rightly so, whats wrong with this club, big budget to get decent players in, but we are a joke of a club at the moment
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Post by anchorman on Jan 5, 2023 15:07:23 GMT
As ever Ted you have made excellent valid points and there are more questions than answer's right now. My biggest concern right now (and I have plenty of them!) is the culture of the club, the very core of Stoke City Football Club, it's heartbeat. As I've already commented, the Nick Hancock article sums everything up perfectly for me and that is the total disengagement and disconnection between club and supporters. It starts at the very top with the Chairman John Coates who I accept is a different personality to his father in terms of being able to communicate with the people, the supporters in both the good times and the not so good times. Peter earned our respect for that. John doesn't communicate at all, no vision, nothing. It all appears to be cold & corporate nowadays with a lack of togetherness, warmth & love. A company, organisation, football club always reflects the energy, the passion & the culture of the man or woman at the top and unfortunately that is very much the case at Stoke City. In all my 50+ years following Stoke, I have never felt so disillusioned, disconnected or disengaged as I do now. I believe there are thousands more like me too and that could be fatal. The hierarchy need to act and fast. I've said it before, JC needs to stand aside, employ a truly professional team to run a modern football club and allow him to be Chairman in name only and begin the process of reaching out and building bridges with the fanbase.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 5, 2023 15:39:45 GMT
And just to add to that - TOGETHERNESS. It's non existent and it's so vitally important throughout the whole club, the fan base and the community.
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Post by LGH87 on Jan 5, 2023 15:42:45 GMT
As ever Ted you have made excellent valid points and there are more questions than answer's right now. My biggest concern right now (and I have plenty of them!) is the culture of the club, the very core of Stoke City Football Club, it's heartbeat. As I've already commented, the Nick Hancock article sums everything up perfectly for me and that is the total disengagement and disconnection between club and supporters. It starts at the very top with the Chairman John Coates who I accept is a different personality to his father in terms of being able to communicate with the people, the supporters in both the good times and the not so good times. Peter earned our respect for that. John doesn't communicate at all, no vision, nothing. It all appears to be cold & corporate nowadays with a lack of togetherness, warmth & love. A company, organisation, football club always reflects the energy, the passion & the culture of the man or woman at the top and unfortunately that is very much the case at Stoke City. In all my 50+ years following Stoke, I have never felt so disillusioned, disconnected or disengaged as I do now. I believe there are thousands more like me too and that could be fatal. The hierarchy need to act and fast. I've said it before, JC needs to stand aside, employ a truly professional team to run a modern football club and allow him to be Chairman in name only and begin the process of reaching out and building bridges with the fanbase. His ego/arrogance/ignorance simply won't allow it though. |
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Post by a on Jan 5, 2023 15:49:33 GMT
You think there’s a plan?! 😂
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 5, 2023 15:52:56 GMT
We don't have the same personnel apart from a couple of exceptions, but I still think the malaise since the post-relegation season hasn't lifted, and the team constantly falls back to its old ways because of knockbacks like conceding to the only shot on target, our best players getting injured etc. It then feels like nothing is ever going to change, which creates a performance anxiety on the pitch (which could explain why home results are worse). It happened to England under Eriksson and other managers when individuals were nowhere near as good as they were for their clubs.
I don't buy that the players aren't trying - they look like they are to me. With a couple of smart additions I believe we have a squad capable of promotion, and it's mostly the mental barriers that need overcoming. There have been signs of that since the season resumed, like coming from behind in games and our forwards finally getting a few goals between them.
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Post by flea79 on Jan 5, 2023 16:00:06 GMT
whats all the fuss about?
i blame Kitson
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Post by potterpaul on Jan 6, 2023 8:30:39 GMT
Change always starts with the simple process of admitting change is absolutely necessary.
This admittance will, on its own, start the healing with fans.
It doesn't have to be an admittance of doing wrong, a simple press release along the lines of
"We have always done everything we can for the best interests of Stoke City FC but now is the time to adjust to the shifting sands footballing administration".
What they must avoid are quotes like
"Lessons have been learnt" that's not an admittance of required change that's an avoidance of responsibility.
It's absolutely imperative they bring in a team of footballing minds to oversee recruitment both managerial and playing staff so that this last 5 or 6 years is not repeated.
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Post by senojbor on Jan 6, 2023 9:40:14 GMT
Setting aside the disappointment and anger at what has happened, this is what I think and what should happen.
Although nearly every player has come in for criticism, we do actually have a few decent enough players.
The problem is we have a lot of weak links in the side, players who are really not good enough at this level.
The loan signing of Delap and the signing of Gayle has been disappointing. Several other loans have been poor too.
We have signed players, particularly defenders who can't do the simple things like defend corners.
So it seems the recruitment policy is to blame.
I'm not sure if this is the fault of the managers or other people at the club.
Another thing stands out is there is very little passion in the play. The team lacks motivation and desire.
You could say that the current manager needs time. However some of his team selections have been poor to say the least which doesn't help.
This transfer window needs to be a busy one. Under performing loans need to be sent back, weak link players moved on and better quality player brought in
It really is that simple.
Whether this will happen is anyone's guess but going by the last six or seven seasons it's unlikely.
I'm absolutely certain of one thing. John Coates needs to be replaced
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marrow999
Lads'n'Dads
Stokie in Cornwall
Posts: 94
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Post by marrow999 on Jan 6, 2023 10:03:42 GMT
As another fan of 40 years plus, being associated with this club is totally disheartening currently. I feel like a lifetime hobby is being ripped away from me and agree with most of the sentiment on here.
Love the parallel between SCFC as a business and Bet365 - we are lead to believe that Denise Coates has no interest in football, but it would be fascinating to see just how quickly she could change the culture of the club using her business acumen.
Something so obviously needs to change. Is John Coates nothing more than daddy's boy? If that's not fair, then please tell me otherwise....yes John, a plan?
"I don't buy that the players aren't trying - they look like they are to me" - not sure I agree. The reaction as the goal went in at the end of the PNE game spoke volumes.....there wasn't one. Nothing.
Sad times for us all. I am becoming so negative that I almost want Hartlepool to beat us if that is what it takes for us to turn this seemingly unturnable ship around.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 6, 2023 10:29:32 GMT
Change always starts with the simple process of admitting change is absolutely necessary. This admittance will, on its own, start the healing with fans. It doesn't have to be an admittance of doing wrong, a simple press release along the lines of "We have always done everything we can for the best interests of Stoke City FC but now is the time to adjust to the shifting sands footballing administration". What they must avoid are quotes like "Lessons have been learnt" that's not an admittance of required change that's an avoidance of responsibility. It's absolutely imperative they bring in a team of footballing minds to oversee recruitment both managerial and playing staff so that this last 5 or 6 years is not repeated. In respect of you’re last paragraph since Scholes left “I think” there’s been a complete shift in direction behind the scenes in the structure for “football management” if you check out the clubs web site. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 6, 2023 10:53:18 GMT
As another fan of 40 years plus, being associated with this club is totally disheartening currently. I feel like a lifetime hobby is being ripped away from me and agree with most of the sentiment on here. Love the parallel between SCFC as a business and Bet365 - we are lead to believe that Denise Coates has no interest in football, but it would be fascinating to see just how quickly she could change the culture of the club using her business acumen. Something so obviously needs to change. Is John Coates nothing more than daddy's boy? If that's not fair, then please tell me otherwise....yes John, a plan? "I don't buy that the players aren't trying - they look like they are to me" - not sure I agree. The reaction as the goal went in at the end of the PNE game spoke volumes.....there wasn't one. Nothing. Sad times for us all. I am becoming so negative that I almost want Hartlepool to beat us if that is what it takes for us to turn this seemingly unturnable ship around. What would have been an appropriate reaction to conceding a goal with the last kick of the game though? Convulsions? Speaking in tongues? It was game over. They've actually responded well to falling behind since the break, which you don't do if you don't care (as we've seen over the last few seasons). We're an awful hot mess of a side but I think people suggesting the players don't care (with perhaps the odd exception) are misdiagnosing the problem. |
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Post by anchorman on Jan 6, 2023 11:35:38 GMT
Change always starts with the simple process of admitting change is absolutely necessary. This admittance will, on its own, start the healing with fans. It doesn't have to be an admittance of doing wrong, a simple press release along the lines of "We have always done everything we can for the best interests of Stoke City FC but now is the time to adjust to the shifting sands footballing administration". What they must avoid are quotes like "Lessons have been learnt" that's not an admittance of required change that's an avoidance of responsibility. It's absolutely imperative they bring in a team of footballing minds to oversee recruitment both managerial and playing staff so that this last 5 or 6 years is not repeated. Absolutely spot on. I’ve been in business for 20 years and that involves making tough calls, tough decisions at times but if I’ve learnt anything in life, it is that you always have to take a long hard look in the mirror, take a good look at yourself and ask yourself what could you do differently, how could you improve your performance to implement change for the better and for the benefit of everyone around. And unless John Coates does precisely that then we will undoubtedly in my mind continue to spiral downwards. |
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Jan 6, 2023 12:29:21 GMT
Ten Hail Marys, Five Our Fathers, and an Act of Contrition.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 6, 2023 12:41:19 GMT
The plan is to employ a manager and let him get on with it. They'll back him as much as they are allowed to and give him more than enough time.
It's simple and typically lazy-arsed.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 6, 2023 13:37:00 GMT
"Whats the plan going forward Mr Coates?" Mr Coates? . . . . . Mr Coates? . . . . . Where are you going Mr Coates? . . . "the pub doesn't open until 11.00 o clock!
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Post by march4 on Jan 6, 2023 13:45:18 GMT
The plan is to employ a manager and let him get on with it. They'll back him as much as they are allowed to and give him more than enough time. It's simple and typically lazy-arsed. They will also pour any amount of £Ms into the club that the rules allow in order to keep us solvent. And they will do all they can to ensure we work within the silly FFP rules. Perhaps you would prefer some of the recent owners at Derby or West Brom. I could add Notts Co to the list. The first two are geographically close and similar sized clubs. The latter no so much. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 6, 2023 13:48:00 GMT
The plan is to employ a manager and let him get on with it. They'll back him as much as they are allowed to and give him more than enough time. It's simple and typically lazy-arsed. They will also pour any amount of £Ms into the club that the rules allow in order to keep us solvent. And they will do all they can to ensure we work within the silly FFP rules. Perhaps you would prefer some of the recent owners at Derby or West Brom. I could add Notts Co to the list. The first two are geographically close and similar sized clubs. The latter no so much. They're the reason the 'silly FFP rules' are even an issue for us. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 6, 2023 16:01:04 GMT
"I don't buy that the players aren't trying - they look like they are to me" - not sure I agree. The reaction as the goal went in at the end of the PNE game spoke volumes.....there wasn't one. Nothing. How does that mean they're not trying? We've had good reactions to going behind recently. It's just a thought but this kind of thing does happen - the players have got so used to last minute goals conceded so when it happens, it's as expected, and what can they do especially so late in the game? I still think the barriers are mental more than anything. |
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Post by pavel on Jan 6, 2023 16:28:06 GMT
Plan, what plan, I haven’t seen any inkling of a plan for the last 5 years at best. Perhaps they have a cunning plan, as Baldrick would say and we all know how those sort of plans end.
Excellent post Ted but entirely wasted on our ship of fools who run the club.
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Post by J-Roar on Jan 6, 2023 16:37:06 GMT
Change always starts with the simple process of admitting change is absolutely necessary. This admittance will, on its own, start the healing with fans. It doesn't have to be an admittance of doing wrong, a simple press release along the lines of "We have always done everything we can for the best interests of Stoke City FC but now is the time to adjust to the shifting sands footballing administration". What they must avoid are quotes like "Lessons have been learnt" that's not an admittance of required change that's an avoidance of responsibility. It's absolutely imperative they bring in a team of footballing minds to oversee recruitment both managerial and playing staff so that this last 5 or 6 years is not repeated. The root and branch review basically concluded that it was Hughes and Lambert's fault. It didn't look at how they came to be in position or what was wrong with the structure. They decided to continue with the shambles they'd created - overpaid useless Chief Executive, only recruiting from the British managers club and buying tried and tested mediocrity who had already peaked. If they'd been serious about a review they would have got an independent view, not just sat in their own echo chamber wanking each other off and saying they'd be back in the prem within a season. |
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 6, 2023 21:29:19 GMT
All great points. Sadly the likely conclusions or answers are well out of my jurisdiction of knowledge as merely a fan who keeps getting hoodwinked in to buying season tickets as 'next season will be different' occurs with me every Spring! My only suggestion to the problems is we need to bin off 'Macron' as our kit makers pronto! We've been cursed with bad fortune ever since we signed up with them! Another nod to Mr Scholes 👏🏻 Let's fuck the Eminem song off at the start of games while we're at it. I think we should just play always look on the bright side - at the start and end of the game at the moment - or if we actually win we could all sing there can be miracles |
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Post by pulismaskreplica on Jan 6, 2023 21:59:27 GMT
If they'd been serious about a review they would have got an independent view, not just sat in their own echo chamber wanking each other off and saying they'd be back in the prem within a season.[/quote]
:-D wanking each other off in an echo chamber… now there’s an horrific vision and erm sound :-D
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