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Post by greyface on Jan 3, 2023 8:34:43 GMT
I think AN is asking them to run for 90 minutes and challenge for every ball. And they don't like it because they have absolutely no ambition of getting out of this league. That's hard work. Lazy fuckers And if they did get us out of this league (either way, up or down) then not one of them would be part of the plans, and they’d just go to another mid-to-low championship club to repeat again…
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 3, 2023 8:40:38 GMT
It's good to see some anger being directed at the owners now as well as the players.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2023 9:19:39 GMT
Couple of times now in interviews after defeats Neil has made reference to our form being poor for years and this is nothing new. I find this concerning, it’s as though he’s saying well we lost today, what’s the problem you should be used to it. Never expected miracles, but expected more than we’ve seen so far. I don't think he is. I think he's saying there is a losing culture and mentality at the club which isn't being changed by bringing in different players and runs a lot deeper than the team and coaches as over five years with different squads and managers nothing has changed. I agree with him but how does a club fall so deeply into this abyss when they haven't been neglected by the owners? Why do seemingly successful managers at other clubs before and after Stoke fail to turn it round? Why if managers really do approve the signings do none of them seem to make a difference? Why did MON seemingly get us playing promotion football during lockdown to fail the next season? And the biggest question is who can turn it round? My heart says it won't be AN and I want to get rid of him but my head says another manager would fail, new players will fail. Unfortunately that leaves you looking at the owners but it's difficult to see how they affect the way the team perform and they can't be held accountable for the make up of the squad. I really do think advice should be sort from Denise and Bet365 on how to make a business a leader in its field. How to turn Stoke into a highly competitive, positive and thriving club. Something in the mentality of the club is wrong. We need strong, supportive, but demanding leadership. We want it to be known throughout the club that failure nor second rate performances will not be tolerated. Perhaps the new Director of football from West Ham can change it but hasn't had time yet and hasn't had chance to put his stamp on the club yet but somehow I don't think so. I think perhaps a successful business man a la Alan Sugar needs to be brought in. A boardroom grilling like the ones Sugar dishes out would certainly make interesting listening. "Well Harry you've played two matches this week and allowed the opposition to score two goals. What makes you think you should play in the next match or that you've earned the wages I pay you? Why should I keep you on? Your performances cost the team points and all that running around a lot and putting in effort at the other end produced the sum total of diddly squat!" If players and managers are going to have to answer awkward questions afterwards it might focus their minds a bit.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 3, 2023 9:44:18 GMT
I will get slated for this but from where I was sitting the only people who can look a fan in the eye today about their performances are Clarke, Bonham, Thompson, Smallbone (I know nobody likes him but he was the only player running into space, note the throw ins where the throw was aimless and he ended up running to the ball and the link up play with Powell) Powell, Laurent and Souttar. Why would anyone like Smallbone ? He’s supposed to be a creative midfielder, he creates absolutely nothing and is completely unambitious in his attempted use of the ball. To say he runs about is a bit misleading too he jogs about and generally shits out of any physical challenge if he’s unfortunate enough to get there despite his lack of urgency.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jan 3, 2023 9:47:58 GMT
Under MON or Neil I’ve never thought the players weren’t trying, but the lack of bollocks and quality today bought out the outpouring of frustration. It looks to me that none of them enjoy or understand the game Neil is asking them to play. It doesn’t suit anybody. What is he asking them to play? I would love to know. That is what I struggle to understand his teams seem unbalanced more often than not and given the players we now have fit again he is doing a lot worse with them than MON would have been for me. Brown and Baker much worse Powell can't even get a start and Harry back to give us those diagonal balls that were so effective that Neil is not even using. I have no idea what he wants the team to do.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 3, 2023 9:49:00 GMT
Couple of times now in interviews after defeats Neil has made reference to our form being poor for years and this is nothing new. I find this concerning, it’s as though he’s saying well we lost today, what’s the problem you should be used to it. Never expected miracles, but expected more than we’ve seen so far. I don't think he is. I think he's saying there is a losing culture and mentality at the club which isn't being changed by bringing in different players and runs a lot deeper than the team and coaches as over five years with different squads and managers nothing has changed. I agree with him but how does a club fall so deeply into this abyss when they haven't been neglected by the owners? Why do seemingly successful managers at other clubs before and after Stoke fail to turn it round? Why if managers really do approve the signings do none of them seem to make a difference? Why did MON seemingly get us playing promotion football during lockdown to fail the next season? And the biggest question is who can turn it round? My heart says it won't be AN and I want to get rid of him but my head says another manager would fail, new players will fail. Unfortunately that leaves you looking at the owners but it's difficult to see how they affect the way the team perform and they can't be held accountable for the make up of the squad. I really do think advice should be sort from Denise and Bet365 on how to make a business a leader in its field. How to turn Stoke into a highly competitive, positive and thriving club. Something in the mentality of the club is wrong. We need strong, supportive, but demanding leadership. We want it to be known throughout the club that failure nor second rate performances will not be tolerated. Perhaps the new Director of football from West Ham can change it but hasn't had time yet and hasn't had chance to put his stamp on the club yet but somehow I don't think so. I think perhaps a successful business man a la Alan Sugar needs to be brought in. A boardroom grilling like the ones Sugar dishes out would certainly make interesting listening. "Well Harry you've played two matches this week and allowed the opposition to score two goals. What makes you think you should play in the next match or that you've earned the wages I pay you? Why should I keep you on? Your performances cost the team points and all that running around a lot and putting in effort at the other end produced the sum total of diddly squat!" If players and managers are going to have to answer awkward questions afterwards it might focus their minds a bit. The new DoF as you incorrectly title him is an AN stooge. How can a manager choose a director it’s perverse.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 3, 2023 11:39:05 GMT
Thanks March…I stand corrected! We beat Liverpool that many times I get them mixed up! 😂 You also fail to say that we then went on an atrocious run where but for a win in late April/May we could well have been relegated I also said how we had massively overachieved in the first half of the season & clearly needed reinforcements in the Jan window. That was plain to see, it was a minor miracle at the time. I don’t think I failed to say anything we were always going to struggle second half of the season without signings. Amazing how these lunatics can make a decision in December/January to get rid of a manager whose team sits 8th in the Premier. What we would all give for that right now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2023 11:52:00 GMT
You also fail to say that we then went on an atrocious run where but for a win in late April/May we could well have been relegated I also said how we had massively overachieved in the first half of the season & clearly needed reinforcements in the Jan window. That was plain to see, it was a minor miracle at the time. I don’t think I failed to say anything we were always going to struggle second half of the season without signings. Amazing how these lunatics can make a decision in December/January to get rid of a manager whose team sits 8th in the Premier. What we would all give for that right now. They didn't get rid of him in December or January, they got rid of him in May, after a dreadful run of results and performances. His methods had stopped working. His recruitment had largely stopped working. That followed a poor second half to the previous season in which we won four games after New Year's Day and finished stone bottom of the 92 for goals scored. The first half of 2012-13 saw us actually start fairly poorly, winning one of our first 10. What really turned things round for us and hauled us up to 8th was Crouch taking a bang in the mouth and Jones coming in for him, and suddenly we had a bit of mobility in the side. The team that destroyed Liverpool on Boxing Day contained two proper wingers and a mobile front two. He barely picked that side again and went back to a plodding one that won a grand total of one game between the end of December and mid-April. We were starting to look like genuine relegation contenders until he again brought a bit of mobility back up front and we got ourselves over the line with a couple of wins. It was dire stuff and it was clearly not working anymore. Everything, even the best stuff, has a shelf life. It always amuses me how being 8th at Christmas is a minor miracle but actually finishing 9th apparently counts for nothing and nobody will ever remember it.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 3, 2023 12:05:13 GMT
I also said how we had massively overachieved in the first half of the season & clearly needed reinforcements in the Jan window. That was plain to see, it was a minor miracle at the time. I don’t think I failed to say anything we were always going to struggle second half of the season without signings. Amazing how these lunatics can make a decision in December/January to get rid of a manager whose team sits 8th in the Premier. What we would all give for that right now. They didn't get rid of him in December or January, they got rid of him in May, after a dreadful run of results and performances. His methods had stopped working. His recruitment had largely stopped working. That followed a poor second half to the previous season in which we won four games after New Year's Day and finished stone bottom of the 92 for goals scored. The first half of 2012-13 saw us actually start fairly poorly, winning one of our first 10. What really turned things round for us and hauled us up to 8th was Crouch taking a bang in the mouth and Jones coming in for him, and suddenly we had a bit of mobility in the side. The team that destroyed Liverpool on Boxing Day contained two proper wingers and a mobile front two. He barely picked that side again and went back to a plodding one that won a grand total of one game between the end of December and mid-April. We were starting to look like genuine relegation contenders until he again brought a bit of mobility back up front and we got ourselves over the line with a couple of wins. It was dire stuff and it was clearly not working anymore. Everything, even the best stuff, has a shelf life. It always amuses me how being 8th at Christmas is a minor miracle but actually finishing 9th apparently counts for nothing and nobody will ever remember it. You can be as amused as you like. I find it ‘amusing’ how so many bang on about three 9th place finishes like we’ve won the bloody Champions League. As I’ve said so many times, TP’s spine, TP’s core, 10 years of culture building, foundations, hard graft….sparkly bits added by Hughes. The point is that I predicted that we would be on a downward spiral once the core went because Hughes wasn’t and never has been capable of building his own spine/core. And here we are. Fast forward to 2023…There is no vision, no culture, no connection and that is down to the current hierarchy whose tenure began in earnest January 2013. TP actually resigned when he realised there would be no backing in that particular window but Peter persuaded him to stay until the summer. He knew the score before April/May. And the real question is where do we go from here?……..
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 3, 2023 12:16:17 GMT
They didn't get rid of him in December or January, they got rid of him in May, after a dreadful run of results and performances. His methods had stopped working. His recruitment had largely stopped working. That followed a poor second half to the previous season in which we won four games after New Year's Day and finished stone bottom of the 92 for goals scored. The first half of 2012-13 saw us actually start fairly poorly, winning one of our first 10. What really turned things round for us and hauled us up to 8th was Crouch taking a bang in the mouth and Jones coming in for him, and suddenly we had a bit of mobility in the side. The team that destroyed Liverpool on Boxing Day contained two proper wingers and a mobile front two. He barely picked that side again and went back to a plodding one that won a grand total of one game between the end of December and mid-April. We were starting to look like genuine relegation contenders until he again brought a bit of mobility back up front and we got ourselves over the line with a couple of wins. It was dire stuff and it was clearly not working anymore. Everything, even the best stuff, has a shelf life. It always amuses me how being 8th at Christmas is a minor miracle but actually finishing 9th apparently counts for nothing and nobody will ever remember it. You can be as amused as you like. I find it ‘amusing’ how so many bang on about three 9th place finishes like we’ve won the bloody Champions League. As I’ve said so many times, TP’s spine, TP’s core, 10 years of culture building, foundations, hard graft….sparkly bits added by Hughes. The point is that I predicted that we would be on a downward spiral once the core went because Hughes wasn’t and never has been capable of building his own spine/core. And here we are. Fast forward to 2023…There is no vision, no culture, no connection and that is down to the current hierarchy whose tenure began in earnest January 2013. TP actually resigned when he realised there would be no backing in that particular window but Peter persuaded him to stay until the summer. He knew the score before April/May. And the real question is where do we go from here?…….. Shame he found it impossible to add or use the sparkly bits himself then isn't it. Football should be enjoyed not endured as was the case during about 95% of his tenures.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2023 12:16:42 GMT
They didn't get rid of him in December or January, they got rid of him in May, after a dreadful run of results and performances. His methods had stopped working. His recruitment had largely stopped working. That followed a poor second half to the previous season in which we won four games after New Year's Day and finished stone bottom of the 92 for goals scored. The first half of 2012-13 saw us actually start fairly poorly, winning one of our first 10. What really turned things round for us and hauled us up to 8th was Crouch taking a bang in the mouth and Jones coming in for him, and suddenly we had a bit of mobility in the side. The team that destroyed Liverpool on Boxing Day contained two proper wingers and a mobile front two. He barely picked that side again and went back to a plodding one that won a grand total of one game between the end of December and mid-April. We were starting to look like genuine relegation contenders until he again brought a bit of mobility back up front and we got ourselves over the line with a couple of wins. It was dire stuff and it was clearly not working anymore. Everything, even the best stuff, has a shelf life. It always amuses me how being 8th at Christmas is a minor miracle but actually finishing 9th apparently counts for nothing and nobody will ever remember it. You can be as amused as you like. I find it ‘amusing’ how so many bang on about three 9th place finishes like we’ve won the bloody Champions League. As I’ve said so many times, TP’s spine, TP’s core, 10 years of culture building, foundations, hard graft….sparkly bits added by Hughes. The point is that I predicted that we would be on a downward spiral once the core went because Hughes wasn’t and never has been capable of building his own spine/core. And here we are. Fast forward to 2023…There is no vision, no culture, no connection and that is down to the current hierarchy whose tenure began in earnest January 2013. TP actually resigned when he realised there would be no backing in that particular window but Peter persuaded him to stay until the summer. He knew the score before April/May. And the real question is where do we go from here?…….. Yeah, there it is again, being 8th halfway through the season is a 'minor miracle' but finishing 9th is something to be belittled, how does that work? If TP's spine was so effective and all Hughes did was add sparkly bits, why wasn't Pulis capable of doing that? He had '10 years of culture building' but didn't think, with the funds available to him at that time, that the odd sparkly bit might make a difference? Hughes actually did far more than that - he changed the style, he revitalised players who'd started to flag like Shawcross, Walters and Whelan and got more out of some of his predecessor's signings than the man himself (Crouch, Nzonzi, Adam, even Cameron to a degree). Results and performances had tailed off, we weren't scoring goals, we looked a poor side by the end. That's why TP was sacked - and he was sacked. He wanted to stay on, hence his dossier...
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 3, 2023 12:30:01 GMT
Under MON or Neil I’ve never thought the players weren’t trying, but the lack of bollocks and quality today bought out the outpouring of frustration. It looks to me that none of them enjoy or understand the game Neil is asking them to play. It doesn’t suit anybody. Clearly, the players are limited - more in terms of character. However, imho the manager is sending them out to play that way Stay back to avoid getting caught on the break and lump the ball forward, hoping it breaks to a forward. Powell put on as target man late on !
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Post by femark on Jan 3, 2023 12:38:37 GMT
I'm struggling to remember a game that I have enjoyed for 90 minutes this season and I'm guessing the majority of fans are thinking the same. I didn't go yesterday because i still hadn't calmed down from the Burnley game.
It's the first time in 20 years of having a season ticket that I'm seriously considering not bothering next year.
The only reason we haven't heard similar chants and booing is because the atmosphere has turned to general apathy instead of anger.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 3, 2023 12:39:56 GMT
You can be as amused as you like. I find it ‘amusing’ how so many bang on about three 9th place finishes like we’ve won the bloody Champions League. As I’ve said so many times, TP’s spine, TP’s core, 10 years of culture building, foundations, hard graft….sparkly bits added by Hughes. The point is that I predicted that we would be on a downward spiral once the core went because Hughes wasn’t and never has been capable of building his own spine/core. And here we are. Fast forward to 2023…There is no vision, no culture, no connection and that is down to the current hierarchy whose tenure began in earnest January 2013. TP actually resigned when he realised there would be no backing in that particular window but Peter persuaded him to stay until the summer. He knew the score before April/May. And the real question is where do we go from here?…….. Yeah, there it is again, being 8th halfway through the season is a 'minor miracle' but finishing 9th is something to be belittled, how does that work? If TP's spine was so effective and all Hughes did was add sparkly bits, why wasn't Pulis capable of doing that? He had '10 years of culture building' but didn't think, with the funds available to him at that time, that the odd sparkly bit might make a difference? Hughes actually did far more than that - he changed the style, he revitalised players who'd started to flag like Shawcross, Walters and Whelan and got more out of some of his predecessor's signings than the man himself (Crouch, Nzonzi, Adam, even Cameron to a degree). Results and performances had tailed off, we weren't scoring goals, we looked a poor side by the end. That's why TP was sacked - and he was sacked. He wanted to stay on, hence his dossier... I suggest you listen to Nigel Johnson & his conversation with TP this morning on Radio Stoke. For the record I agree with him 100% when he said that he holds TP in the highest regard, up there with Tony Waddington as Stoke City’s best ever manager and a special mention for Lou Macari. Spot Nige, absolutely spot on.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2023 12:51:42 GMT
Yeah, there it is again, being 8th halfway through the season is a 'minor miracle' but finishing 9th is something to be belittled, how does that work? If TP's spine was so effective and all Hughes did was add sparkly bits, why wasn't Pulis capable of doing that? He had '10 years of culture building' but didn't think, with the funds available to him at that time, that the odd sparkly bit might make a difference? Hughes actually did far more than that - he changed the style, he revitalised players who'd started to flag like Shawcross, Walters and Whelan and got more out of some of his predecessor's signings than the man himself (Crouch, Nzonzi, Adam, even Cameron to a degree). Results and performances had tailed off, we weren't scoring goals, we looked a poor side by the end. That's why TP was sacked - and he was sacked. He wanted to stay on, hence his dossier... I suggest you listen to Nigel Johnson & his conversation with TP this morning on Radio Stoke. For the record I agree with him 100% when he said that he holds TP in the highest regard, up there with Tony Waddington as Stoke City’s best ever manager and a special mention for Lou Macari. Spot Nige, absolutely spot on. What's that got to do with the price of fish though? There's every reason to hold him in the highest regard, overall he did a brilliant job for us. I don't see how that makes any of what I said above untrue?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 3, 2023 12:53:39 GMT
What really brings it home is the fact it makes not a ripple in the wider world.
Not even an article from the couple of national journalists who sometimes check in for a twice-yearly 'What's going wrong at Stoke City?' article.
Just Pete Smith ploughing a lone furrow charting the slow decline into complete and utter irrelevance. And even the Sentinel coverage comes to a grinding halt if he has a week off.
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Post by mcw on Jan 3, 2023 13:07:11 GMT
Under MON or Neil I’ve never thought the players weren’t trying, but the lack of bollocks and quality today bought out the outpouring of frustration. It looks to me that none of them enjoy or understand the game Neil is asking them to play. It doesn’t suit anybody. Clearly, the players are limited - more in terms of character. However, imho the manager is sending them out to play that way Stay back to avoid getting caught on the break and lump the ball forward, hoping it breaks to a forward. Powell put on as target man late on ! I suspect that this could be due to the complete turnaround in management style/tactics re MON and Neil. MON appeared to be generally more of the this is the way we play and let the opposition worry about us (not that that was working towards the end) whereas Neil is analysing the opposition each game and trying to get the players to implement different tactics on a game by game basis (don't ask me what those tactics are as I can't see any semblance of them on current performances). So the players have gone from having to implement one style of play/tactics into trying to adapt (bloody awfully) to implement Neil's game by game tactics...
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 3, 2023 13:20:27 GMT
Couple of times now in interviews after defeats Neil has made reference to our form being poor for years and this is nothing new. I find this concerning, it’s as though he’s saying well we lost today, what’s the problem you should be used to it. Never expected miracles, but expected more than we’ve seen so far. I don't think he is. I think he's saying there is a losing culture and mentality at the club which isn't being changed by bringing in different players and runs a lot deeper than the team and coaches as over five years with different squads and managers nothing has changed. I agree with him but how does a club fall so deeply into this abyss when they haven't been neglected by the owners? Why do seemingly successful managers at other clubs before and after Stoke fail to turn it round? Why if managers really do approve the signings do none of them seem to make a difference? Why did MON seemingly get us playing promotion football during lockdown to fail the next season? And the biggest question is who can turn it round? My heart says it won't be AN and I want to get rid of him but my head says another manager would fail, new players will fail. Unfortunately that leaves you looking at the owners but it's difficult to see how they affect the way the team perform and they can't be held accountable for the make up of the squad. I really do think advice should be sort from Denise and Bet365 on how to make a business a leader in its field. How to turn Stoke into a highly competitive, positive and thriving club. Something in the mentality of the club is wrong. We need strong, supportive, but demanding leadership. We want it to be known throughout the club that failure nor second rate performances will not be tolerated. Perhaps the new Director of football from West Ham can change it but hasn't had time yet and hasn't had chance to put his stamp on the club yet but somehow I don't think so. I think perhaps a successful business man a la Alan Sugar needs to be brought in. A boardroom grilling like the ones Sugar dishes out would certainly make interesting listening. "Well Harry you've played two matches this week and allowed the opposition to score two goals. What makes you think you should play in the next match or that you've earned the wages I pay you? Why should I keep you on? Your performances cost the team points and all that running around a lot and putting in effort at the other end produced the sum total of diddly squat!" If players and managers are going to have to answer awkward questions afterwards it might focus their minds a bit. In his latest book, How to be an ex-footballer, Peter Crouch references Stoke and Tony Pulis a fair bit. Re Stoke, he says, "we knew it was going wrong when Erik Pieters kept parking in the chairman's parking space and no-one did a thing about it". Now, that might seem like a trivial thing to recall but to me it's Crouch providing just one (safe and mildly humorous) example of how the club was falling apart behind the scenes, how that attitude had infected the players' mentalities (and probably those of other staff members) to the point that no-one really gave much of a shit any more. No great surprise then that we are where we are. Pretty awful that it's taken over five years and we still seem to be stuck in the same rotten place. Also goes to show just how much you need someone like Pulis or Ferguson to keep on top of their players, and, frankly, how little players actually care about their employers at the end of the day. PSV, Stoke, Burnley, WBA, who cares. Just another salary.
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Post by J-Roar on Jan 3, 2023 13:23:54 GMT
Yeah, there it is again, being 8th halfway through the season is a 'minor miracle' but finishing 9th is something to be belittled, how does that work? If TP's spine was so effective and all Hughes did was add sparkly bits, why wasn't Pulis capable of doing that? He had '10 years of culture building' but didn't think, with the funds available to him at that time, that the odd sparkly bit might make a difference? Hughes actually did far more than that - he changed the style, he revitalised players who'd started to flag like Shawcross, Walters and Whelan and got more out of some of his predecessor's signings than the man himself (Crouch, Nzonzi, Adam, even Cameron to a degree). Results and performances had tailed off, we weren't scoring goals, we looked a poor side by the end. That's why TP was sacked - and he was sacked. He wanted to stay on, hence his dossier... I suggest you listen to Nigel Johnson & his conversation with TP this morning on Radio Stoke. For the record I agree with him 100% when he said that he holds TP in the highest regard, up there with Tony Waddington as Stoke City’s best ever manager and a special mention for Lou Macari. Spot Nige, absolutely spot on. He was also so far up the Coates' backside it was embarrassing.
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Post by datguy on Jan 3, 2023 13:29:59 GMT
As someone summed up perfectly in the matchday thread.
If Jacob Brown was the shooter, John Lennon would still be alive.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 3, 2023 13:35:06 GMT
I suggest you listen to Nigel Johnson & his conversation with TP this morning on Radio Stoke. For the record I agree with him 100% when he said that he holds TP in the highest regard, up there with Tony Waddington as Stoke City’s best ever manager and a special mention for Lou Macari. Spot Nige, absolutely spot on. What's that got to do with the price of fish though? There's every reason to hold him in the highest regard, overall he did a brilliant job for us. I don't see how that makes any of what I said above untrue? Maybe because you bang on about how amazing Hughes was whilst slagging TP off at every opportunity. Of course he wanted to stay on. He loved being manager of Stoke City so if he came up with a dossier then well done for fighting his corner. My point is that it’s interesting that Nige didn’t mention Mark Hughes (unless I’ve missed that) and his amazing tenure as manager? For me, something happened at the heart of the club once TP had gone and Peter stepped down. It was always going to end in disaster. And make no mistake it has. TP talked about how he questioned Nige about what made Stoke fans tick, he researched it, he wanted to know about the area. That was so important and I honestly don’t think any of his successors were so meticulous. There was a connection, it was about togetherness, solidarity and for me that has completely eroded. Those things matter. I never believed that Mark Hughes really loved or cared about Stoke City or S-O-T. He did his job and that was it. He dined off TP’s hard work. The poison that is within the club has spread like wildfire to the toxic culture we now have and it began with the Hughes, Cartwright, J Coates, Scholes ‘dream team’…… It’s all about opinions Toxic but I know for a fact that TP resigned in Jan and PC persuaded him to stay on. However, as I said earlier. Where do we go from here?…….
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 3, 2023 13:35:48 GMT
Clearly, the players are limited - more in terms of character. However, imho the manager is sending them out to play that way Stay back to avoid getting caught on the break and lump the ball forward, hoping it breaks to a forward. Powell put on as target man late on ! I suspect that this could be due to the complete turnaround in management style/tactics re MON and Neil. MON appeared to be generally more of the this is the way we play and let the opposition worry about us (not that that was working towards the end) whereas Neil is analysing the opposition each game and trying to get the players to implement different tactics on a game by game basis (don't ask me what those tactics are as I can't see any semblance of them on current performances). So the players have gone from having to implement one style of play/tactics into trying to adapt (bloody awfully) to implement Neil's game by game tactics... Nor can I see any tactics other than mentioned - very limited - needs a target man
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 3, 2023 13:41:56 GMT
It's good to see some anger being directed at the owners now as well as the players. Especially by those willing to stump up £200m to do a better job , rumour is the queue is forming outside the ground already with investors willing to chunk £200m down the drain on a business with a turnover heading for £10m
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2023 13:50:53 GMT
What's that got to do with the price of fish though? There's every reason to hold him in the highest regard, overall he did a brilliant job for us. I don't see how that makes any of what I said above untrue? Maybe because you bang on about how amazing Hughes was whilst slagging TP off at every opportunity. Of course he wanted to stay on. He loved being manager of Stoke City so if he came up with a dossier then well done for fighting his corner. My point is that it’s interesting that Nige didn’t mention Mark Hughes (unless I’ve missed that) and his amazing tenure as manager? For me, something happened at the heart of the club once TP had gone and Peter stepped down. It was always going to end in disaster. And make no mistake it has. TP talked about how he questioned Nige about what made Stoke fans tick, he researched it, he wanted to know about the area. That was so important and I honestly don’t think any of his successors were so meticulous. There was a connection, it was about togetherness, solidarity and for me that has completely eroded. Those things matter. I never believed that Mark Hughes really loved or cared about Stoke City or S-O-T. He did his job and that was it. He dined off TP’s hard work. The poison that is within the club has spread like wildfire to the toxic culture we now have and it began with the Hughes, Cartwright, J Coates, Scholes ‘dream team’…… It’s all about opinions Toxic but I know for a fact that TP resigned in Jan and PC persuaded him to stay on. However, as I said earlier. Where do we go from here?……. So if all that's true, why couldn't TP's own hard work get him to finish higher than a terrible fraud who only 'dined off it'? Still waiting on that one? It was already going south under TP, that's what you're not addressing. It's fanboyism that isn't rooted in reality. The wheels were coming off. Hughes did a good job and then lost the plot, just like Pulis. They sacked Pulis in good time, they left Hughes in place too long. That's the only reason in it ending in disaster, if they'd left Pulis in charge for another season there's every chance that disaster could've happened four years sooner that it did. I don't think it's here nor there who Nige did or didn't mention, to be honest. Nor, to be brutally honest, does 'loving the club'. If a big club had come in for Pulis or Hughes they'd both have been off and neither could be blamed for that. It isn't about slagging one off at every opportunity and eulogising about the other, it's about being balanced and seeing the good and bad in both.
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Post by anchorman on Jan 3, 2023 14:12:19 GMT
Fair points. However, it's still completely insane how a manager who's team were 8th in the Premier League at that time wasn't backed in the Jan window because the hierarchy had made their decision. Completely and utterly insane. Nothing to do with 'fanboyism'. I actually think it is worth noting what Nige had to say because TP unbelievably gets a lot of unwarranted shit as our club's joint most successful manager ever especially from the key board warrior brigade on here. It was actually a man of class, compassion & integrity bringing a much needed reminder to folk in a generous and balanced way.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2023 14:23:11 GMT
Fair points. However, it's still completely insane how a manager who's team were 8th in the Premier League at that time wasn't backed in the Jan window because the hierarchy had made their decision. Completely and utterly insane. Nothing to do with 'fanboyism'. I actually think it is worth noting what Nige had to say because TP unbelievably gets a lot of unwarranted shit as our club's joint most successful manager ever especially from the key board warrior brigade on here. It was actually a man of class, compassion & integrity bringing a much needed reminder to folk in a generous and balanced way. I hated TP but I appreciate what he did at the club and have to rate him as one of our best. Nowhere near Tony Waddington who, albeit in a different era, had us competing at the top and playing good football. Yes he started like Pulis with the Waddington Wall but he evolved to make the team one of the most attractive to watch. That was Pulis's problem, he was stuck in his ways and couldn't progress the team or the club and got incredibly boring. Some matches we watched in his last season were mind numbingly boring, equally as bad as some we watch now. Mark Hughes was a breath of fresh air when he came in and provided us with the best football we've seen since Waddington. He too, like Pulis got carried away with his ethos and lost a grip on the reality and common sense. He should either have gone earlier or later but not when he did. I still think he would have kept us up just as Pulis did at the final hurdle of his last season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2023 14:23:25 GMT
Fair points. However, it's still completely insane how a manager who's team were 8th in the Premier League at that time wasn't backed in the Jan window because the hierarchy had made their decision. Completely and utterly insane. Nothing to do with 'fanboyism'. I actually think it is worth noting what Nige had to say because TP unbelievably gets a lot of unwarranted shit as our club's joint most successful manager ever especially from the key board warrior brigade on here. It was actually a man of class, compassion & integrity bringing a much needed reminder to folk in a generous and balanced way. I think in context it's understandable though? He wasn't using his squad well. Again, we were 8th largely due to his first choice striker and record signing being injured and the second he was fit again he reverted to what wasn't working. What was going to change? He'd had a series of pretty poor windows in a row at some expense and we were starting to go backwards and the owners were starting to want us to look at players with a resale value, which he didn't really want to do. If the squad needed serious investment at that point, really, whose fault was that when he'd brought in another seven players in the summer window? Waddo won a trophy, so I think he's probably still out in front, isn't he? I think the compassion and integrity thing is in the eye of the beholder too, not sure that's a universally held viewpoint, but I liked him generally and he did a great job. I just think he came to the end of the road as all managers do. He was moved on at the right time.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 3, 2023 14:28:13 GMT
Fair points. However, it's still completely insane how a manager who's team were 8th in the Premier League at that time wasn't backed in the Jan window because the hierarchy had made their decision. Completely and utterly insane. Nothing to do with 'fanboyism'. I actually think it is worth noting what Nige had to say because TP unbelievably gets a lot of unwarranted shit as our club's joint most successful manager ever especially from the key board warrior brigade on here. It was actually a man of class, compassion & integrity bringing a much needed reminder to folk in a generous and balanced way. On what metric is he the joint most successful manager here? As for integrity, I'd ask Crystal Palace about that.
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Post by Billy the kid on Jan 3, 2023 14:32:09 GMT
Maybe because you bang on about how amazing Hughes was whilst slagging TP off at every opportunity. Of course he wanted to stay on. He loved being manager of Stoke City so if he came up with a dossier then well done for fighting his corner. My point is that it’s interesting that Nige didn’t mention Mark Hughes (unless I’ve missed that) and his amazing tenure as manager? For me, something happened at the heart of the club once TP had gone and Peter stepped down. It was always going to end in disaster. And make no mistake it has. TP talked about how he questioned Nige about what made Stoke fans tick, he researched it, he wanted to know about the area. That was so important and I honestly don’t think any of his successors were so meticulous. There was a connection, it was about togetherness, solidarity and for me that has completely eroded. Those things matter. I never believed that Mark Hughes really loved or cared about Stoke City or S-O-T. He did his job and that was it. He dined off TP’s hard work. The poison that is within the club has spread like wildfire to the toxic culture we now have and it began with the Hughes, Cartwright, J Coates, Scholes ‘dream team’…… It’s all about opinions Toxic but I know for a fact that TP resigned in Jan and PC persuaded him to stay on. However, as I said earlier. Where do we go from here?……. So if all that's true, why couldn't TP's own hard work get him to finish higher than a terrible fraud who only 'dined off it'? Still waiting on that one? It was already going south under TP, that's what you're not addressing. It's fanboyism that isn't rooted in reality. The wheels were coming off. Hughes did a good job and then lost the plot, just like Pulis. They sacked Pulis in good time, they left Hughes in place too long. That's the only reason in it ending in disaster, if they'd left Pulis in charge for another season there's every chance that disaster could've happened four years sooner that it did. I don't think it's here nor there who Nige did or didn't mention, to be honest. Nor, to be brutally honest, does 'loving the club'. If a big club had come in for Pulis or Hughes they'd both have been off and neither could be blamed for that. It isn't about slagging one off at every opportunity and eulogising about the other, it's about being balanced and seeing the good and bad in both. For me the pulis years were the best, as in siege mentality, togetherness and really getting under the skin of more gifted opponents. You can't deny it was fun whilst it lasted. Then the Hughes years offered some of the best football and best players we have had at stoke for decades. Like everything though it goes stale, changes have to happen and the management of these changes has to be spot on. Unfortunately we got it wrong with Hughes, and we are where we are.
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Post by LGH87 on Jan 3, 2023 14:35:38 GMT
Time for us to sing "what's all the fuss about" loud and for extended periods.
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