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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 11, 2022 17:14:40 GMT
He's had three major tournaments, two of which we had arguably the best side in the tournament and failed to win either.
In the likes of Brazil, Argentina and France, failure to win a major tournament (let alone failure to make it past the quarter finals) is met with utter disgust, shame, embarrassment and anger - not applause. Yet here in England, a significant proportion of the media and supporters alike want Southgate to remain and think he's done an excellent job. Is that a problem?
He's been blessed with one of the most talented England sides in decades. We have depth in just about every position and a team made up of world class players in just about every department (Maguire aside). On paper, we were a better side than France last night.
It's no secret that Southgate has his tactical shortcomings and was previously known as the guy no one wanted who got a midtable Middlesboro side relegated from the Premier League in hapless fashion. As such, I think it's only fair to say that he's exceeded expectations managing England and credit where its due, the team under his watch has got us as close to winning something as we've been in many years.
On the flip side, many would argue it was his tactical shortcomings that were the reason we were unable to overturn Croatia and an Italy side that only a few months later failed to qualify for a world cup.
I hate to replay the old saying but its very much a case of "the first top side we come up against, we lose". Given the group of players at our disposal, it would be a travesty if we couldn't give them a go playing under a world class manager.
Southgate has been given enough opportunities, he's certainly surpassed expectations but its time to make way for someone else to try and bring back one of those sacred trophies with this exceptionally talented squad.
Keen to hear why people think Southgate deserves a fourth major tournament and a further £10 million as England manager for the next couple of years...
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 17:23:16 GMT
He's had three major tournaments, two of which we had arguably the best side in the tournament and failed to win either. In the likes Brazil, Argentina and France, failure to win a major tournament (let alone failure to make it past the quarter finals) is met with utter disgust, shame, embarrassment and anger - not applause. Yet here in England, a significant proportion of the media and supporters alike want Southgate to remain and think he's done an excellent job. Is that a problem? He's been blessed with one of the most talented England sides in decades. We have depth in just about every position and a team made up of world class players in just about every department (Maguire aside). On paper, we were a better side than France last night. It's no secret that Southgate has his tactical shortcomings and was previously known as the guy no one wanted who got a midtable Middlesboro side relegated from the Premier League in hapless fashion. As such, I think it's only fair to say that he's exceeded expectations managing England and credit where its due, the team under his watch has got us as close to winning something as we've been in many years. On the flip side, many would argue it was his tactical shortcomings that were the reason we were unable to overturn Croatia and an Italy side that only a few months later failed to qualify for a world cup. I hate to replay the old saying but its very much a case of "the first top side we come up against, we lose". Given the group of players at our disposal, it would be a travesty if we couldn't give them a go playing under a world class manager. Southgate has been given enough opportunities, he's certainly surpassed expectations but its time to make way for someone else to try and bring back one of those sacred trophies with this exceptionally talented squad. Keen to hear why people think Southgate deserves a fourth major tournament... I felt this was the first tournament where we actually tried to express ourselves. I think we played well last night without luck but you make your own luck. I think he should have walked after the Euros tbh but he should definitely walk now with his head held high. And I’m sure he will. As I’ve said plenty of times I’d like to see Brendan Rodgers offered the gig, think he make a good international manager, his teams play good football and he seems to be good with his players. Also he’s obviously at loggerheads with the hierarchy at Leicester so you’d assume he’d jump at the chance. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Dec 11, 2022 17:29:06 GMT
He couldn’t have done much more last night, players let themselves down.
Can you actually expect to win a WC with Harry Maguire and John Stones as your centre back pairing?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 17:31:45 GMT
He couldn’t have done much more last night, players let themselves down. Can you actually expect to win a WC with Harry Maguire and John Stones as your centre back pairing? I thought he waited too long to make changes and the personnel weren’t right. We needed a bit of magic and on came Mount and Sterling. Would have liked to have seen Grealish for sure. |
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 11, 2022 17:38:05 GMT
He's had three major tournaments, two of which we had arguably the best side in the tournament and failed to win either. In the likes of Brazil, Argentina and France, failure to win a major tournament (let alone failure to make it past the quarter finals) is met with utter disgust, shame, embarrassment and anger - not applause. Yet here in England, a significant proportion of the media and supporters alike want Southgate to remain and think he's done an excellent job. Is that a problem? He's been blessed with one of the most talented England sides in decades. We have depth in just about every position and a team made up of world class players in just about every department (Maguire aside). On paper, we were a better side than France last night. It's no secret that Southgate has his tactical shortcomings and was previously known as the guy no one wanted who got a midtable Middlesboro side relegated from the Premier League in hapless fashion. As such, I think it's only fair to say that he's exceeded expectations managing England and credit where its due, the team under his watch has got us as close to winning something as we've been in many years. On the flip side, many would argue it was his tactical shortcomings that were the reason we were unable to overturn Croatia and an Italy side that only a few months later failed to qualify for a world cup. I hate to replay the old saying but its very much a case of "the first top side we come up against, we lose". Given the group of players at our disposal, it would be a travesty if we couldn't give them a go playing under a world class manager. Southgate has been given enough opportunities, he's certainly surpassed expectations but its time to make way for someone else to try and bring back one of those sacred trophies with this exceptionally talented squad. Keen to hear why people think Southgate deserves a fourth major tournament and a further £10 million as England manager for the next couple of years... Who is your replacement? |
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 11, 2022 17:39:17 GMT
He couldn’t have done much more last night, players let themselves down. Can you actually expect to win a WC with Harry Maguire and John Stones as your centre back pairing? I thought he waited too long to make changes and the personnel weren’t right. We needed a bit of magic and on came Mount and Sterling. Would have liked to have seen Grealish for sure. Mount won a penalty. He's a good player. Sterling for Saka made no sense. Saka was done but should have been replaced by Grealish. |
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Post by thevoid on Dec 11, 2022 17:41:13 GMT
I'm a little worried that having Gareth as manager is wasting the potential of this group of players. Nice bloke but he just doesn't have the aura of a major trophy winning manager. I'd have also taken Ivan Toney over Callum Wilson, for his penalty record if nothing else.
As I said on the other thread, he's not had overly difficult KO games on the way to the semis/Final but when we've finally come across top tier nations/coaches he's been outmanoeuvred.
2018
Colombia (finally broke our penalty curse)
Sweden (fair enough, an easy win against something of a bogey side)
Croatia (scored too early and ran out of steam against a side who'd gone to penalties in the last round)
2020
Germany (looks an impressive scalp but this is the worst German side in decades)
Ukraine (a side you'd expect to beat)
Denmark (fair play, a come from behind win against a side full of confidence)
Italy (again scored too early and took too long to bring on fresh legs against a tiring team)
2022
Senegal (a side you'd expect to beat)
France
We need to find a way of getting over the line because to win trophies you'll have to lock horns with the elite sides eventually. Look at Morocco- they've knocked out Spain and Portugal. When's the last time we've knocked out that level of opposition? A change in mentality is also needed- France were hardly one of the big guns before 1998 and in the early stages the French public were largely indifferent about their national side. In fact that was the only World Cup they qualified for (by default) in that decade.
We simply have to go foreign. The only English coaches worth considering are Howe and Potter and there's no way that they will leave their current clubs as things stand (Potter's definitely an England boss for the future though)
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Dec 11, 2022 17:41:56 GMT
He couldn’t have done much more last night, players let themselves down. Can you actually expect to win a WC with Harry Maguire and John Stones as your centre back pairing? The players let themselves down? Are you taking the piss with that? They give it their all we just didn't finish our chances off, the French did. That's all it came down too, I was proud of every one of them last night. |
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 11, 2022 17:47:31 GMT
Southgate comes across as a very decent man who is a good ambassador for English football.
However, I do think that, in an ultra-hard and demanding game that international football is, he's a bit like having a vicar in charge.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 17:47:32 GMT
I thought he waited too long to make changes and the personnel weren’t right. We needed a bit of magic and on came Mount and Sterling. Would have liked to have seen Grealish for sure. Mount won a penalty. He's a good player. Sterling for Saka made no sense. Saka was done but should have been replaced by Grealish. We needed something different, some creativity. Any fucker can get shoved in the back. And I don’t mind Mount, just didn’t feel it was the correct sub when chasing the game |
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Post by redstriper on Dec 11, 2022 17:49:00 GMT
I wanted him out after the euros - our failure to win that was down to him and hugely frustrating. But i think he did well in this tournament, he appears to have learnt from the euro mistakes, and given the players trust in him i'd be happy for him to continue.
Especially if Brendan Rogers is the touted replacement...jesus wept...
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 11, 2022 17:54:28 GMT
Mount won a penalty. He's a good player. Sterling for Saka made no sense. Saka was done but should have been replaced by Grealish. We needed something different, some creativity. Any fucker can get shoved in the back. And I don’t mind Mount, just didn’t feel it was the correct sub when chasing the game Only if you make the right run in the first place. |
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 11, 2022 18:03:03 GMT
I don't really agree with the point about the players. There is no way we are best side on paper. Far from it.
We don't currently have any world class players which we have had in the past, we had many world class players who have failed at international level in the past under different managers though.
We don't have any Mbappe, Messi, Modric, Neymar, Griezmann or Ronaldo and usually these players make a big difference in tournaments.
These players are young with potential, just that at the moment. Bellingham looks great but he's way off the final product and I don't see any evidence that Southgate has wasted his potential, in fact, I would say the opposite.
I'm also scratching my head about an alternative. I would not like to see an Eddie Howe team playacting and diving around all of the time, thanks.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 18:07:38 GMT
I don't really agree with the point about the players. There is no way we are best side on paper. Far from it. We don't currently have any world class players which we have had in the past, we had many world class players who have failed at international level in the past under different managers. We don't have any Mbappe, Messi, Modric, Neymar, Griezmann or Ronaldo and usually these players make a big difference in tournaments. These players are young with potential, just that at the moment. Bellingham looks great but he's way off the final product and I don't see any evidence that Southgate has wasted his potential, in fact, I would say the opposite. I'm also scratching my head about an alternative. I would not like to see an Eddie Howe team playacting and diving around all of the time, thanks. Think Pochettino could be an option perhaps? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 18:08:46 GMT
We needed something different, some creativity. Any fucker can get shoved in the back. And I don’t mind Mount, just didn’t feel it was the correct sub when chasing the game Only if you make the right run in the first place. I would have made that run. I’d have also shrugged off the shove and volleyed an arrow like hit in the postage stamp🤣 |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Dec 11, 2022 18:11:47 GMT
He couldn’t have done much more last night, players let themselves down. Can you actually expect to win a WC with Harry Maguire and John Stones as your centre back pairing? The players let themselves down? Are you taking the piss with that? They give it their all we just didn't finish our chances off, the French did. That's all it came down too, I was proud of every one of them last night. You don’t think Kane let him down by skying that penalty? |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Dec 11, 2022 18:17:17 GMT
The players let themselves down? Are you taking the piss with that? They give it their all we just didn't finish our chances off, the French did. That's all it came down too, I was proud of every one of them last night. You don’t think Kane let him down by skying that penalty? Anyone can miss a penalty. He tried to put to much on it and missed, it happens. Noone will be more gutted than Harry Kane, he let noone down he was immense last night as were all the other players. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 18:19:38 GMT
You don’t think Kane let him down by skying that penalty? Anyone can miss a penalty. He tried to put to much on it and missed, it happens. Noone will be more gutted than Harry Kane, he let noone down he was immense last night as were all the other players. I wasn’t even that angry he’d missed tbh. Just one of those things I thought and that probably stems from knowing these players actually give a shit. Unlike some of their predecessors |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Dec 11, 2022 18:22:38 GMT
Anyone can miss a penalty. He tried to put to much on it and missed, it happens. Noone will be more gutted than Harry Kane, he let noone down he was immense last night as were all the other players. I wasn’t even that angry he’d missed tbh. Just one of those things I thought and that probably stems from knowing these players actually give a shit. Unlike some of their predecessors Exactly mate I wasn't angry with him at all the bloke will be cut up about it. He cares and is a proud captain. Would love him to win the euros because could be his last chance maybe, he deserves to. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 11, 2022 18:22:52 GMT
He's had three major tournaments, two of which we had arguably the best side in the tournament and failed to win either. In the likes of Brazil, Argentina and France, failure to win a major tournament (let alone failure to make it past the quarter finals) is met with utter disgust, shame, embarrassment and anger - not applause. Yet here in England, a significant proportion of the media and supporters alike want Southgate to remain and think he's done an excellent job. Is that a problem? He's been blessed with one of the most talented England sides in decades. We have depth in just about every position and a team made up of world class players in just about every department (Maguire aside). On paper, we were a better side than France last night. It's no secret that Southgate has his tactical shortcomings and was previously known as the guy no one wanted who got a midtable Middlesboro side relegated from the Premier League in hapless fashion. As such, I think it's only fair to say that he's exceeded expectations managing England and credit where its due, the team under his watch has got us as close to winning something as we've been in many years. On the flip side, many would argue it was his tactical shortcomings that were the reason we were unable to overturn Croatia and an Italy side that only a few months later failed to qualify for a world cup. I hate to replay the old saying but its very much a case of "the first top side we come up against, we lose". Given the group of players at our disposal, it would be a travesty if we couldn't give them a go playing under a world class manager. Southgate has been given enough opportunities, he's certainly surpassed expectations but its time to make way for someone else to try and bring back one of those sacred trophies with this exceptionally talented squad. Keen to hear why people think Southgate deserves a fourth major tournament and a further £10 million as England manager for the next couple of years... Who is your replacement? I mean... Based on his club record, he's a championship manager for with very little experience so not exactly difficult to replace. Loads of possibilities if we're prepared to pay for them. Eddie Howe, Brendan Rogers or if whatever reason Ancelloti is interested, Ancelotti would be a solid three. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Dec 11, 2022 18:25:27 GMT
You don’t think Kane let him down by skying that penalty? Anyone can miss a penalty. He tried to put too much on it and missed, it happens. Noone will be more gutted than Harry Kane, he let noone down he was immense last night as were all the other players. I’m not sure about that. No excuses for not hitting the target, it’s his job. It’s harsh but at the end of the day he’s on the plane home today because he missed. |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Dec 11, 2022 18:30:30 GMT
If we aren't careful we could in danger of becoming the next Belgium and have a great team that wins nothing because the manager cant get a tune out of the players.
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Post by metalhead on Dec 11, 2022 18:31:46 GMT
Thought he got it wrong last night and he got it wrong in the final. This is arguably one of the best English teams for years.... And we're wasting it.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Dec 11, 2022 18:49:43 GMT
Anyone can miss a penalty. He tried to put too much on it and missed, it happens. Noone will be more gutted than Harry Kane, he let noone down he was immense last night as were all the other players. I’m not sure about that. No excuses for not hitting the target, it’s his job. It’s harsh but at the end of the day he’s on the plane home today because he missed. Yes it's his job but he's a human being and he fucked up the same way that anyone else good at their job will make a mistake now and then. Difference is when we make a mistake there isn't millions of people watching. He didn't let anyone down and neither did any of the other players. As you were. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 18:56:02 GMT
I’m not sure about that. No excuses for not hitting the target, it’s his job. It’s harsh but at the end of the day he’s on the plane home today because he missed. Yes it's his job but he's a human being and he fucked up the same way that anyone else good at their job will make a mistake now and then. Difference is when we make a mistake there isn't millions of people watching. He didn't let anyone down and neither did any of the other players. As you were. Spot on. Never been a fan of Southgate but I was proud of our performances in this World Cup. And Southgate deserves some credit for that. Time for someone else though |
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Post by Gods on Dec 11, 2022 18:57:57 GMT
I think he has done really well.
Much better than anyone else in my lifetime and I go back to the 70's.
There isn't a chancier sport in the world than knock out football, witness the progress of Morocco and Croatia in place of far superior teams.
He's as likely to catch a break and go all the way one tournament as anyone else.
I think it's possible he will choose to walk but no one is about to fire him.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Dec 11, 2022 18:59:39 GMT
The phrases that come to my mind are:
Be careful what you wish for
Better the devil you know
I'm no lover of Southgate but he's certainly moving in the right direction (no longer too cautious, bringing in Bellingham, great team spirit etc) and deserves one more crack at the Euros with these players.
And it's all academic anyway: the only person making this decision is Southgate himself.
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Post by northernstokie on Dec 11, 2022 19:00:14 GMT
I don't think he will go anywhere and it wouldn't surprise me if he signed a new contract and will be there at the next World Cup
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Dec 11, 2022 19:00:34 GMT
Yes it's his job but he's a human being and he fucked up the same way that anyone else good at their job will make a mistake now and then. Difference is when we make a mistake there isn't millions of people watching. He didn't let anyone down and neither did any of the other players. As you were. Spot on. Never been a fan of Southgate but I was proud of our performances in this World Cup. And Southgate deserves some credit for that. Time for someone else though Yes mate agree it might be time for him to move aside now with his head held high. |
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Post by ChesterStokie on Dec 11, 2022 19:03:00 GMT
I don't think he will go anywhere and it wouldn't surprise me if he signed a new contract and will be there at the next World Cup Yes, maybe with a get out clause for the FA if we flop at the Euros. |
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