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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 29, 2022 21:03:37 GMT
After TP we had a couple of years under Hughes that were brilliant, but after that we seem to be in an endless downwards spiral! Why is it like this? We seem to have decent owners who always back the manager as much as they can, and we also seem to get the managers we want. Despite of this we always seem to be a let down. Why? I guess there could be worse clubs to support, but as a Stoke fan you certainly have more downs than ups most seasons. Still we don't give up and have hopes every season that this could be our year, but in fact only TP has been able to take us up and keep us up the last decades. I still hope Neil can do this as well, but for every game we lose in the same way it's harder to keep the faith. Again we seem to end up in a relegation fight when we really hoped we could challenge for the playoffs. When will we have some success again? I must admit I'm fed up of being on the losing end again and again, but still we keep our hopes up that one day it will be our turn again. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be this season either.  |
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Post by Jimm on Oct 29, 2022 21:10:32 GMT
It's gone Pete Tong since the South stand corner was filled in.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Oct 29, 2022 21:19:44 GMT
Kitson!
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 29, 2022 21:20:33 GMT
After TP we had a couple of years under Hughes that were brilliant, but after that we seem to be in an endless downwards spiral! Why is it like this? We seem to have decent owners who always back the manager as much as they can, and we also seem to get the managers we want. Despite of this we always seem to be a let down. Why? I guess there could be worse clubs to support, but as a Stoke fan you certainly have more downs than ups most seasons. Still we don't give up and have hopes every season that this could be our year, but in fact only TP has been able to take us up and keep us up the last decades. I still hope Neil can do this as well, but for every game we lose in the same way it's harder to keep the faith. Again we seem to end up in a relegation fight when we really hoped we could challenge for the playoffs. When will we have some success again? I must admit I'm fed up of being on the losing end again and again, but still we keep our hopes up that one day it will be our turn again. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be this season either. It's a total conundrum, you're right. My confusion is basically why I started the sport psychologist thread. It's something going on at a subconscious level somehow, like a rot or a fungus growing subliminally through the heart wood of the club. |
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Post by milky on Oct 29, 2022 21:30:06 GMT
Because of the way we do things ,ie ,the manager is solely responsible for EVERYTHING on the football side and has total control the type of old school manager that can deal with that is becoming very thin on the ground.
Rowett couldn't handle it ,Jones certainly couldn't, MON made a decent fist of it in fairness and its too early to judge AN really.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 29, 2022 21:34:15 GMT
Because of the way we do things ,ie ,the manager is solely responsible for EVERYTHING on the football side and has total control the type of old school manager that can deal with that is becoming very thin on the ground. Rowett couldn't handle it ,Jones certainly couldn't, MON made a decent fist of it in fairness and its too early to judge AN really. That certainly seems to be the current theory and it may indeed be correct.. but it wouldn't surprise me if a new 'modern' structure is put in place and it still fucks up somehow. Strangely manager's seem attracted to total control whilst not handling it effectively when they're given it. |
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 29, 2022 21:45:24 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Oct 29, 2022 21:47:39 GMT
We always seem to have ineffective 'big name' players who don't really work for the benefit of the team.
Lewis Baker is the latest culprit. Scores a lot of goals for a midfielder so it feels harsh to criticise him but he offers no creativity for the forward line and no protection for the defence. See Joe Allen before him.
How many times do you see another team's line up and think 'who the fuck is he?' or 'he's wank' yet they're much more effective for their team than our names.
Our current midfield at the moment is abysmal at both ends of the pitch and as a result, so is our whole side. Laurent, and especially Baker, are both decent enough players on their own but simply don't work together.
In the squad who would you take forward for next year, as a starter or in the squad?
Half the team suited to play 5 at the back, and incapable of playing with a back 4, and the other half suited to the back 4 but incapable of playing in a side with a 5 man defence. You can certainly see why many forward thinking clubs opt for a director of football.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Oct 29, 2022 21:48:12 GMT
Add to the above some absolutely atrocious footballers.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 29, 2022 21:48:39 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped Such as? |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 29, 2022 22:01:24 GMT
We always seem to have ineffective 'big name' players who don't really work for the benefit of the team. Lewis Baker is the latest culprit. Scores a lot of goals for a midfielder so it feels harsh to criticise him but he offers no creativity for the forward line and no protection for the defence. See Joe Allen before him. How many times do you see another team's line up and think 'who the fuck is he?' or 'he's wank' yet they're much more effective for their team than our names. Our current midfield at the moment is abysmal at both ends of the pitch and as a result, so is our whole side. Laurent, and especially Baker, are both decent enough players on their own but simply don't work together. In the squad who would you take forward for next year, as a starter or in the squad? Half the team suited to play 5 at the back, and incapable of playing with a back 4, and the other half suited to the back 4 but incapable of playing in a side with a 5 man defence. You can certainly see why many forward thinking clubs opt for a director of football. Bang on the money there mate |
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 29, 2022 22:16:15 GMT
I'm going to throw this theory into the ring.
Is having wealthy owners an hindrance.
If we ever get to a stage where we are pushing for promotion and actually make it back into PL, how many of the current crop of players would survive. There's a couple of younger players Souttar, Campbell maybe. The players are all on very decent Championship wages with a club that can easily afford them even though we are pushing the boundaries of FFP. That wouldn't be the case for many clubs at this level or lower.
Are we witnessing self preservation on the players behalf?
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Post by Roger Everyone on Oct 29, 2022 22:17:30 GMT
The trouble is we spent money to try and recreate what we had but the team wasn't managed properly.
Now we are trying to dig around in the cheap market for players but expect miricles in 3 months.
Lets be honest the total rubbish has gone, MON did that and cleared the decks.
Now we need to patient and get behind the manager snd the team.
We have some good players but they don't work as a team.
Thats the managers job to make it work, it will not happen straight away.
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Post by danceswithclams on Oct 29, 2022 23:04:04 GMT
Because the club lacks the internal structures and the strategy and vision necessary to be successful in the modern football landscape.
It's that simple.
Nothing will change until those in the boardroom realise this and (a) bring in personnel with the knowledge and experience to implement a sustainable strategy spanning all footballing matters, or (b) sell up to someone who will implement point a.
Strap yourselves in folks - it's going to be a long, long time before we trouble the top flight again.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 29, 2022 23:23:14 GMT
We were never the same since we let Tom Soares go.... Even if league placings told otherwise for the next few seasons!!!
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Post by generationex on Oct 29, 2022 23:35:45 GMT
“Stoke City Recruitment : Generally shit since 2012.”
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Post by independent on Oct 30, 2022 1:28:51 GMT
The trouble is we spent money to try and recreate what we had but the team wasn't managed properly. Now we are trying to dig around in the cheap market for players but expect miricles in 3 months. Lets be honest the total rubbish has gone, MON did that and cleared the decks. Now we need to patient and get behind the manager snd the team. We have some good players but they don't work as a team. Thats the managers job to make it work, it will not happen straight away. We are almost out of FFP problems with money to spend next June. So managing the club should be a lot easier than it has been for the last few years, during which we had to get the wage bill down to about a quarter of what it was and get rid of at least 20 highly paid players who didn't want to leave. Things should be looking up next season. Incidently, Powell is one of the last players on a high salary. His contract is up next June. Will he be re-signed? |
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 30, 2022 1:38:41 GMT
I'm going to throw this theory into the ring. Is having wealthy owners an hindrance. If we ever get to a stage where we are pushing for promotion and actually make it back into PL, how many of the current crop of players would survive. There's a couple of younger players Souttar, Campbell maybe. The players are all on very decent Championship wages with a club that can easily afford them even though we are pushing the boundaries of FFP. That wouldn't be the case for many clubs at this level or lower. Are we witnessing self preservation on the players behalf? 😂😂👏🏼 |
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Post by kustokie on Oct 30, 2022 1:42:31 GMT
The trouble is we spent money to try and recreate what we had but the team wasn't managed properly. Now we are trying to dig around in the cheap market for players but expect miricles in 3 months. Lets be honest the total rubbish has gone, MON did that and cleared the decks. Now we need to patient and get behind the manager snd the team. We have some good players but they don't work as a team. Thats the managers job to make it work, it will not happen straight away. We are almost out of FFP problems with money to spend next June. So managing the club should be a lot easier than it has been for the last few years, during which we had to get the wage bill down to about a quarter of what it was and get rid of at least 20 highly paid players who didn't want to leave. Things should be looking up next season. Incidently, Powell is one of the last players on a high salary. His contract is up next June. Will he be re-signed? Powell is arguably the best player on the books by a mile, if he can stay fit. Unfortunately he is injury prone, which is exacerbated by the fact that everyone knows he’s in a different class and kick the crap out of him at every opportunity. We may have trouble keeping him in the summer when he becomes a free agent and he looks for better options. |
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Post by theonlooker on Oct 30, 2022 6:48:53 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped I've often wondered why we ended up with Dwight Gayle. A player the club tried to force onto Gary Rowett 4 years ago by all accounts and now a 30+ year old player that was given a 2 year deal at a time when the last manager was limiting those players to 1 year with an option under his own, newly designed structured recruitment policy.
It was also quite a shift in stature/style of striker that O'Neill either signed or wanted to. Bar Jacob Brown (who was signed as a project), all of the strikers we signed or wanted to were 6'+ and were of a certain stature or perceived stature and style - almost polar opposite to Gayle.
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Post by Ron on Oct 30, 2022 7:15:10 GMT
Simple answer is that since the summer at the start of the relegation season the recruitment has been absolutely appalling.
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Post by jeycov on Oct 30, 2022 7:21:03 GMT
It's gone Pete Tong since the South stand corner was filled in. At the same time we changed the name of our stadium |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 30, 2022 7:32:22 GMT
We always seem to have ineffective 'big name' players who don't really work for the benefit of the team. Lewis Baker is the latest culprit. Scores a lot of goals for a midfielder so it feels harsh to criticise him but he offers no creativity for the forward line and no protection for the defence. See Joe Allen before him. How many times do you see another team's line up and think 'who the fuck is he?' or 'he's wank' yet they're much more effective for their team than our names. Our current midfield at the moment is abysmal at both ends of the pitch and as a result, so is our whole side. Laurent, and especially Baker, are both decent enough players on their own but simply don't work together. In the squad who would you take forward for next year, as a starter or in the squad? Half the team suited to play 5 at the back, and incapable of playing with a back 4, and the other half suited to the back 4 but incapable of playing in a side with a 5 man defence. You can certainly see why many forward thinking clubs opt for a director of football. Absolutely spot on mate. The list is distinguished from Kitson, Palacios, Berahino, Imbula, Wimmer, Afobe, Ndaiye, Etebo to name a few of the earlier ones. Then we had the loanees Boney, Jesse. Players like these must have spread a malaise in the club amongst the lesser players who see these so called stars earning big money but failing to contribute anything. A strong club captain would help, not just on the pitch but in the dressing room too. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 30, 2022 7:35:33 GMT
“Stoke City Recruitment : Generally shit since 2012.” Would go 2011 myself. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 30, 2022 7:45:09 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped I've often wondered why we ended up with Dwight Gayle. A player the club tried to force onto Gary Rowett 4 years ago by all accounts and now a 30+ year old player that was given a 2 year deal at a time when the last manager was limiting those players to 1 year with an option under his own, newly designed structured recruitment policy. The wrong type of player at a wrong age too for a two-year-contract. His legs are gone, and I really think a race over 30 yards between him and Flint would be awfully close! |
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Post by wuzza on Oct 30, 2022 7:58:39 GMT
The club has been a hotch potch of good intentions, misplaced faith, poor judgement and pure bad luck for a lot of years now and it’s going to take some inspired thinking, clever recruitment and a bit of good fortune to get out of the spiral. Those stars haven’t come into alignment yet but I think as long as we are financially secure the day will come. Meanwhile its just all a bit depressing.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Oct 30, 2022 8:44:36 GMT
The trouble is we spent money to try and recreate what we had but the team wasn't managed properly. Now we are trying to dig around in the cheap market for players but expect miricles in 3 months. Lets be honest the total rubbish has gone, MON did that and cleared the decks. Now we need to patient and get behind the manager snd the team. We have some good players but they don't work as a team. Thats the managers job to make it work, it will not happen straight away. We are almost out of FFP problems with money to spend next June. So managing the club should be a lot easier than it has been for the last few years, during which we had to get the wage bill down to about a quarter of what it was and get rid of at least 20 highly paid players who didn't want to leave. Things should be looking up next season. Incidently, Powell is one of the last players on a high salary. His contract is up next June. Will he be re-signed? Good question, it's difficult one. Good player, but seems to spend an equal amount of time out injured as playing. |
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Post by questionable on Oct 30, 2022 9:00:11 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped Funnily enough I was told this years ago along with a preferred method of play. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 30, 2022 9:02:18 GMT
Poor recruitment by our past managers, going back to the last 2 seasons of Hughes.
When you have poor players or players who don't give a Donkeys Donger about the club, any manager is going to struggle getting results with these kind of players.
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Post by flea79 on Oct 30, 2022 14:24:15 GMT
lax management of the club is the issue
remember when Paul Shambert said he found things in the club he had never seen before in his career he wasnt kidding and things have still not changed.
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