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Post by noustie on Oct 30, 2022 14:34:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 15:00:51 GMT
For me , it's the culture of the club and mentality of the players .
We had a good 5 or ten minute spell , in the second half , when we were really pushing to find that defence splitting ball from the middle of the park . And every time Stoke got a player free , a norwich midfield player took them down and picked up a yellow card . Norwich picked up 3 yellow cards in about 5 mins but no stoke player ran free.
Glenn Whelan would have done the same , Nzonzi would have done the same , Walters would have done the same
Baker , laurent , smallbone don't do this . This is a major issue ( especially for stoke's defence and goalie ). Who the hell , wants Pukki , Ramsey and co running loose from the middle of the park .
Baker , laurent , smallbone need to be made to do what whelan , Walters , Nzonzi , eustace , would have done . Take them down , pick up a yellow card , sort it .
this problem has been going on since TP left
It has to be sorted , we have to be more clinical, more cynical and more effective
Pep Gaurdiola is considered the master of tactical fouling . His Man City sides , every year are the best at tactical fouling in the entire league
If it's good enough for PeP , it will do for us .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 15:15:28 GMT
lax management of the club is the issue remember when Paul Shambert said he found things in the club he had never seen before in his career he wasnt kidding and things have still not changed. The total lack of respect for Paul Lambert from the players tells you a lot about the sort of club we are. Lambo gets a brief mention in Roy Keane's autobiography , he found him a very tough , clever, competitive opponent . One of the toughest he played against in the champions league . poor old zinadine zidane was marked out of the game by Lambo in a champions league final basically your roy keane's and zinadine zidane's would be happy to listen to Lambert , but your berahino's and wimmer's can't be arsed .
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 30, 2022 16:12:32 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped Like Who? Where is the evidence for this? I mean, evidence on the pitch for start? I cant think of anyone who hasn't been dropped apart from Baker and he hasn't been around that long and is team captain, something that not many had any issue with?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 30, 2022 16:14:21 GMT
lax management of the club is the issue remember when Paul Shambert said he found things in the club he had never seen before in his career he wasnt kidding and things have still not changed. The total lack of respect for Paul Lambert from the players tells you a lot about the sort of club we are. Lambo gets a brief mention in Roy Keane's autobiography , he found him a very tough , clever, competitive opponent . One of the toughest he played against in the champions league . poor old zinadine zidane was marked out of the game by Lambo in a champions league final basically your roy keane's and zinadine zidane's would be happy to listen to Lambert , but your berahino's and wimmer's can't be arsed . That was as a player though. Being a good player doesn’t make you a good manager.
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Post by flea79 on Oct 30, 2022 16:31:32 GMT
lax management of the club is the issue remember when Paul Shambert said he found things in the club he had never seen before in his career he wasnt kidding and things have still not changed. The total lack of respect for Paul Lambert from the players tells you a lot about the sort of club we are. Lambo gets a brief mention in Roy Keane's autobiography , he found him a very tough , clever, competitive opponent . One of the toughest he played against in the champions league . poor old zinadine zidane was marked out of the game by Lambo in a champions league final basically your roy keane's and zinadine zidane's would be happy to listen to Lambert , but your berahino's and wimmer's can't be arsed . If it was as simple as players on the pitch it would be easy but the issues were and in some cases so much deeper I mean just imagine you didn’t get your wages paid properly every month and the bonus you agreed wasn’t paid correctly would you be happy too give it your all the next week? And of it kept happening you think the management of the club would want answers from the people responsible for the errors? Not at stoke though. This is one example of the rot in this club and is historic and I know was fixed eventually. But you can guarantee there are further things going on that will come out in time!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 18:30:55 GMT
We were never the same since we let Tom Soares go.... Even if league placings told otherwise for the next few seasons!!! Was a bleak day. Up there with the day Welcome Back Kotter was cancelled, Cabana bars were discontinued, Heyward left Haircut 100 and Dunkin Donuts stopped doing Blueberry frosted Painful dates in the diary
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Post by nott1 on Oct 30, 2022 18:40:16 GMT
After TP we had a couple of years under Hughes that were brilliant, but after that we seem to be in an endless downwards spiral! Why is it like this? We seem to have decent owners who always back the manager as much as they can, and we also seem to get the managers we want. Despite of this we always seem to be a let down. Why? I guess there could be worse clubs to support, but as a Stoke fan you certainly have more downs than ups most seasons. Still we don't give up and have hopes every season that this could be our year, but in fact only TP has been able to take us up and keep us up the last decades. I still hope Neil can do this as well, but for every game we lose in the same way it's harder to keep the faith. Again we seem to end up in a relegation fight when we really hoped we could challenge for the playoffs. When will we have some success again? I must admit I'm fed up of being on the losing end again and again, but still we keep our hopes up that one day it will be our turn again. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be this season either. We could plead with TP to come back eh?
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Post by nott1 on Oct 30, 2022 18:43:00 GMT
We were never the same since we let Tom Soares go.... Even if league placings told otherwise for the next few seasons!!! Was a bleak day. Up there with the day Welcome Back Kotter was cancelled, Cabana bars were discontinued, Heyward left Haircut 100 and Dunkin Donuts stopped doing Blueberry frosted Painful dates in the diary I tried one of those donuts the other day.....it was foul and over priced! Not a blueberry one though!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 18:51:58 GMT
Was a bleak day. Up there with the day Welcome Back Kotter was cancelled, Cabana bars were discontinued, Heyward left Haircut 100 and Dunkin Donuts stopped doing Blueberry frosted Painful dates in the diary I tried one of those donuts the other day.....it was foul and over priced! Not a blueberry one though! 😧 I don't know what to say. Maybe one day will learn to forgive you
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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 30, 2022 19:30:47 GMT
After TP we had a couple of years under Hughes that were brilliant, but after that we seem to be in an endless downwards spiral! Why is it like this? We seem to have decent owners who always back the manager as much as they can, and we also seem to get the managers we want. Despite of this we always seem to be a let down. Why? I guess there could be worse clubs to support, but as a Stoke fan you certainly have more downs than ups most seasons. Still we don't give up and have hopes every season that this could be our year, but in fact only TP has been able to take us up and keep us up the last decades. I still hope Neil can do this as well, but for every game we lose in the same way it's harder to keep the faith. Again we seem to end up in a relegation fight when we really hoped we could challenge for the playoffs. When will we have some success again? I must admit I'm fed up of being on the losing end again and again, but still we keep our hopes up that one day it will be our turn again. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be this season either. We could plead with TP to come back eh? Think Neil should get at least a couple of windows first, but not the worst suggestion I've heard!
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Oct 30, 2022 19:38:41 GMT
The total lack of respect for Paul Lambert from the players tells you a lot about the sort of club we are. Lambo gets a brief mention in Roy Keane's autobiography , he found him a very tough , clever, competitive opponent . One of the toughest he played against in the champions league . poor old zinadine zidane was marked out of the game by Lambo in a champions league final basically your roy keane's and zinadine zidane's would be happy to listen to Lambert , but your berahino's and wimmer's can't be arsed . That was as a player though. Being a good player doesn’t make you a good manager. He has had success as a manager though, admittedly a while back now but he has.
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Post by musik on Oct 30, 2022 19:44:11 GMT
Cheaper players these days? The managers aren't any wizards.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 30, 2022 19:45:24 GMT
That was as a player though. Being a good player doesn’t make you a good manager. He has had success as a manager though, admittedly a while back now but he has. He’d done well at Norwich. Things must be bad though if we’ve arrived at spinning Lambert as hard done by. A better manager keeps us up.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Oct 30, 2022 19:48:05 GMT
He has had success as a manager though, admittedly a while back now but he has. He’d done well at Norwich. Things must be bad though if we’ve arrived at spinning Lambert as hard done by. A better manager keeps us up. Oh I'm not sticking up for him at all it was an absolutely wank appointment just pointing out he has had success but like you say only at Norwich.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 30, 2022 20:29:43 GMT
Owners and directors at the club have personal favourite players who can't be dropped Bullshit
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 30, 2022 21:28:05 GMT
We were never the same since we let Tom Soares go.... Even if league placings told otherwise for the next few seasons!!! Was a bleak day. Up there with the day Welcome Back Kotter was cancelled, Cabana bars were discontinued, Heyward left Haircut 100 and Dunkin Donuts stopped doing Blueberry frosted Painful dates in the diary
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 21:37:45 GMT
Cheaper players these days? The managers aren't any wizards. What about Potter?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 30, 2022 22:21:23 GMT
Cheaper players these days? The managers aren't any wizards. What about Potter? The bloke who'll get sacked in a few months you mean ?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 30, 2022 22:50:30 GMT
The bloke who'll get sacked in a few months you mean ? Potter, Wizard etc.......
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 23:18:47 GMT
The bloke who'll get sacked in a few months you mean ? Can I whoosh you there Hackett ?
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 30, 2022 23:57:11 GMT
The total lack of respect for Paul Lambert from the players tells you a lot about the sort of club we are. Lambo gets a brief mention in Roy Keane's autobiography , he found him a very tough , clever, competitive opponent . One of the toughest he played against in the champions league . poor old zinadine zidane was marked out of the game by Lambo in a champions league final basically your roy keane's and zinadine zidane's would be happy to listen to Lambert , but your berahino's and wimmer's can't be arsed . If it was as simple as players on the pitch it would be easy but the issues were and in some cases so much deeper I mean just imagine you didn’t get your wages paid properly every month and the bonus you agreed wasn’t paid correctly would you be happy too give it your all the next week? And of it kept happening you think the management of the club would want answers from the people responsible for the errors? Not at stoke though. This is one example of the rot in this club and is historic and I know was fixed eventually. But you can guarantee there are further things going on that will come out in time! Are you really saying players haven't been paid on a regular basis? I'm pretty sure that would have become public knowledge pretty quickly. It's one of the reasons why clubs get given a points penalty and transfer embargo which hasn't happened at Stoke. All this conspiracy theory nonsense about the way the club is mismanaged is pure exaggeration and made up based on rumour. It is our turn to struggle, just like Bolton, Portsmouth, Coventry, Derby, Sunderland Forest, both Sheffield clubs etc. Ten years in the Premier does not mean a club is guaranteed to return if they get relegated. There are plenty of other clubs who are also difficult to manage if you mean getting them back into the Premier
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 31, 2022 8:21:13 GMT
A football club is like the ocean - sometimes it's calm, sometimes it's choppy and sometimes its vicious. The manager is like the captain of a boat - they can be good, bad or indifferent and to various degrees contribute to a good journey, an iffy journey or a disaster. People on the boat tend take the condition of the ocean into account and judge the captain accordingly. Football fans completely ignore the prevailing conditions at the club and just blame the manager regardless. It's easier.
Conditions were a bit choppy when Hughes took over and initially he steadied the ship. However he took his eye off the ball, the squad started to rot and Lambert steered us into a shit storm. Rowett thought he'd inherited the QE2 when really he'd inherited the Titanic just after it had hit the iceberg, Jones waved his hands around like a maniac while the ship sank and O'Neil got it to calmer but still choppy waters and got sacked for being boringly competent. Neil is having to deal with a bunch of irate passengers who still think they are on a luxury cruise whereas they are actually on the set of the Poseidon Adventure.
So in answer to the OP we aren't hard to manage we are just currently a bit more fucked up than we have been but nowhere near as fucked up as we were.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2022 8:51:33 GMT
A football club is like the ocean - sometimes it's calm, sometimes it's choppy and sometimes its vicious. The manager is like the captain of a boat - they can be good, bad or indifferent and to various degrees contribute to a good journey, an iffy journey or a disaster. People on the boat tend take the condition of the ocean into account and judge the captain accordingly. Football fans completely ignore the prevailing conditions at the club and just blame the manager regardless. It's easier. Conditions were a bit choppy when Hughes took over and initially he steadied the ship. However he took his eye off the ball, the squad started to rot and Lambert steered us into a shit storm. Rowett thought he'd inherited the QE2 when really he'd inherited the Titanic just after it had hit the iceberg, Jones waved his hands around like a maniac while the ship sank and O'Neil got it to calmer but still choppy waters and got sacked for being boringly competent. Neil is having to deal with a bunch of irate passengers who still think they are on a luxury cruise whereas they are actually on the set of the Poseidon Adventure. So in answer to the OP we aren't hard to manage we are just currently a bit more fucked up than we have been but nowhere near as fucked up as we were. A few things. 1) I don't think people are 'just blaming the manager' - the owners have come in for plenty of flak too, Scholes got dog's abuse on here for years, so did Cartwright. 2) All of the managers we've appointed have played a big part in contributing to the mess. 3) You keep peddling this 'boringly competent' line - O'Neill has lost almost 50% of his league games this calendar year and failed to win four of his first five this season. Talk me through the 'competent' bit of that?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 31, 2022 10:09:53 GMT
A football club is like the ocean - sometimes it's calm, sometimes it's choppy and sometimes its vicious. The manager is like the captain of a boat - they can be good, bad or indifferent and to various degrees contribute to a good journey, an iffy journey or a disaster. People on the boat tend take the condition of the ocean into account and judge the captain accordingly. Football fans completely ignore the prevailing conditions at the club and just blame the manager regardless. It's easier. Conditions were a bit choppy when Hughes took over and initially he steadied the ship. However he took his eye off the ball, the squad started to rot and Lambert steered us into a shit storm. Rowett thought he'd inherited the QE2 when really he'd inherited the Titanic just after it had hit the iceberg, Jones waved his hands around like a maniac while the ship sank and O'Neil got it to calmer but still choppy waters and got sacked for being boringly competent. Neil is having to deal with a bunch of irate passengers who still think they are on a luxury cruise whereas they are actually on the set of the Poseidon Adventure. So in answer to the OP we aren't hard to manage we are just currently a bit more fucked up than we have been but nowhere near as fucked up as we were. A few things. 1) I don't think people are 'just blaming the manager' - the owners have come in for plenty of flak too, Scholes got dog's abuse on here for years, so did Cartwright. 2) All of the managers we've appointed have played a big part in contributing to the mess. 3) You keep peddling this 'boringly competent' line - O'Neill has lost almost 50% of his league games this calendar year and failed to win four of his first five this season. Talk me through the 'competent' bit of that? Your take on things is the perfect example of ignoring the underlying situation and blaming the manager. Before O'Neill took over we were a basket case heading towards relegation. He saved us from relegation and then kept us up while systematically dismantling a squad we couldn't afford. The situation O'Neill dealt with was awful and he kept us afloat - that's a pretty good definition of competent. We went into this season with virtually a new squad and a horrendous injury list - given those circumstances he did no better or worse than any other manager and Neil (also a competent manger) has done no better. Since relegation you and others seem to think we are just the right manager away from promotion and refuse to see the mess we have been in. The fact is at no point has the club been in a fit state for a serious promotion challenge. O'Neill at least turned a basket case into something like a functioning football club and Neil and his successors will get the credit for what O'Neill did for the club. We probably wouldn't have got promoted under O'Neill this season because having dismantled the squad it's going to take at least a couple of seasons to build one capable of promotion. Neil has inherited that situation and the situation at the club is determining the outcome - as it would any other manager. I'm not saying sacking O'Neill was wrong for the long term. What I am saying is that believing bringing in another manager was going to result in success this because the problems are inherent in the club's current situation, not the manager. But where's the fun if you've got no-one to scapegoat?
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 31, 2022 11:39:18 GMT
How long until this current manager runs out of excuses?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2022 12:01:12 GMT
A few things. 1) I don't think people are 'just blaming the manager' - the owners have come in for plenty of flak too, Scholes got dog's abuse on here for years, so did Cartwright. 2) All of the managers we've appointed have played a big part in contributing to the mess. 3) You keep peddling this 'boringly competent' line - O'Neill has lost almost 50% of his league games this calendar year and failed to win four of his first five this season. Talk me through the 'competent' bit of that? Your take on things is the perfect example of ignoring the underlying situation and blaming the manager. Before O'Neill took over we were a basket case heading towards relegation. He saved us from relegation and then kept us up while systematically dismantling a squad we couldn't afford. The situation O'Neill dealt with was awful and he kept us afloat - that's a pretty good definition of competent. We went into this season with virtually a new squad and a horrendous injury list - given those circumstances he did no better or worse than any other manager and Neil (also a competent manger) has done no better. Since relegation you and others seem to think we are just the right manager away from promotion and refuse to see the mess we have been in. The fact is at no point has the club been in a fit state for a serious promotion challenge. O'Neill at least turned a basket case into something like a functioning football club and Neil and his successors will get the credit for what O'Neill did for the club. We probably wouldn't have got promoted under O'Neill this season because having dismantled the squad it's going to take at least a couple of seasons to build one capable of promotion. Neil has inherited that situation and the situation at the club is determining the outcome - as it would any other manager. I'm not saying sacking O'Neill was wrong for the long term. What I am saying is that believing bringing in another manager was going to result in success this because the problems are inherent in the club's current situation, not the manager. But where's the fun if you've got no-one to scapegoat? The problem with this take is you have to conveniently turn a blind eye to quite a lot of the manager's own decisions to make it stand up. I haven't ever talked about promotion, that's a total straw man. I'm suggesting with the backing O'Neill had over his time here he should have been able to put together a more cohesive unit that was capable of better than one that stultified its way to 14th season on season. The idea nobody could hope to do better than that when a Huddersfield side that spent less on players than we did finished third last season is very silly indeed. O'Neill had to wheel and deal no doubt but he built a squad that was neither fish nor fowl. - He was adamant he could only play a back three but was addicted to signing milkfloat-slow centre halves to play in it - The system hinged on wing backs and yet his solutions were an inexperienced lad from Arsenal, a winger, and a lad who doesn’t always get a game for the Vale. - It took him aeons to recognise we needed some physicality in midfield - He bet the farm on another inexperienced youngster in Smallbone to shoulder the majority of the creative burden - His big outlay was on an ageing striker whose strengths and weaknesses were similar to the strikers we already had None of those things are on anyone else but him. You’re acting like the managers are just shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic when in fact they’ve still received, even if they’ve had to wheel and deal themselves to get it, a decent amount of support by the standards of most of the league.
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Post by musik on Oct 31, 2022 12:11:48 GMT
Cheaper players these days? The managers aren't any wizards. What about Potter? The managers we've had, I mean. But I get your point. We would do with a wizard.
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Post by LGH87 on Oct 31, 2022 12:15:23 GMT
Starting to think that relegation to the third tier is the only thing that will spark the owners in to life and actually change things.
Knowing them though, they won't change a thing.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 31, 2022 12:38:28 GMT
Starting to think that relegation to the third tier is the only thing that will spark the owners in to life and actually change things. Knowing them though, they won't change a thing. That’s what we thought about relegation from the premier league….
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