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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 12:49:09 GMT
Agreed. Ask any psychologist how to get the best out of people and they'll tell you to sit in silence and moan like fuck if they make a mistake. The only way to optimise performance is to not encourage and to create a climate of fear. It's just common sense. I'm not saying turning into happy clappers will change poor managers and players into world beaters. However, you just need to look at the players body language at home and contrast it to how they are away. It's chalk and cheese. All I hear around me at home games are moaners, groaning if they recycle the ball, moaning when subs come on because they are shit and refusing to encourage until entertained. It won't fix everything but it may have a marginal effect. One things for sure - the current atmosphere is diabolical and putting all that on the club and the players is a cop out. The only reason home advantage is a thing is because supporters lift their own team and put pressure on the referee and the away team. Sitting in silence and giving up when we go behind doesn't help either. You are. There’s been nothing to get behind for 7 years. It’s the very definition of happy clapping. And there is a difference and that show a mental weakness from those players. It’s not a cop out in the slightest. The fans have been far too patient with the lot of them with how bad we’ve been. You're telling me what I'm saying now! You want more moaning. What will it achieve?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 12:51:41 GMT
You are. There’s been nothing to get behind for 7 years. It’s the very definition of happy clapping. And there is a difference and that show a mental weakness from those players. It’s not a cop out in the slightest. The fans have been far too patient with the lot of them with how bad we’ve been. You're telling me what I'm saying now! You want more moaning. What will it achieve? Yes because it’s happy clapping. Saying it’s not doesn’t mean that it isn’t 😂 I don’t moaning. I want action. I think the time has passed mind. Just look at the reaction to any of the owners being an issue and it’s like you’ve murdered someone’s family. Despite them being the root of the issue at this club and at the centre of its demise in the 7 years. We’re in a never ending spiral of trudgery until they leave or wake up or get lucky. There’s no plan. Just luck.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 12:54:45 GMT
Well said. It seems to me that supporters of bigger clubs should now be called the audience who come to a match to be entertained. They are not supporters in the original sense of the word, only offering support when it is least needed. Compare how referees get a free ride from our crowd even when they are awful to the way they were put under immense pressure in our early Premier days. Most paying customers at the moment are not fans either as they are in no way fanatical. There isn’t a set of fans anywhere in the world who is going to respond positively to a ponderous, shapeless, lifeless gloop of a performance like we’ve been churning out for years at home. It’s a symbiotic relationship and the players and management simply haven’t carried their end of the bargain. The home support is poor. And has been for years. We had the brief bear pit phase of 2 seasons where we told the world we were the loudest and proudest supporters the world had ever seen and then we got comfortable and finally shut up completely. And the answer seems to be to stay that way until we go up.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 12:56:03 GMT
There isn’t a set of fans anywhere in the world who is going to respond positively to a ponderous, shapeless, lifeless gloop of a performance like we’ve been churning out for years at home. It’s a symbiotic relationship and the players and management simply haven’t carried their end of the bargain. The home support is poor. And has been for years. We had the brief bear pit phase of 2 seasons where we told the world we were the loudest and proudest supporters the world had ever seen and then we got comfortable and finally shut up completely. And the answer seems to be to stay that way until we go up. The answer is to stop being shit at home.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 12:56:37 GMT
You're telling me what I'm saying now! You want more moaning. What will it achieve? Yes because it’s happy clapping. Saying it’s not doesn’t mean that it isn’t 😂 I don’t moaning. I want action. I think the time has passed mind. Just look at the reaction to any of the owners being an issue and it’s like you’ve murdered someone’s family. Despite them being the root of the issue at this club and at the centre of its demise in the 7 years. We’re in a never ending spiral of trudgery until they leave or wake up or get lucky. There’s no plan. Just luck. We'll have to agree to disagree with what you are telling me I am saying. You even think you know what others are saying. Astonishing narcissism.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 12:57:20 GMT
The home support is poor. And has been for years. We had the brief bear pit phase of 2 seasons where we told the world we were the loudest and proudest supporters the world had ever seen and then we got comfortable and finally shut up completely. And the answer seems to be to stay that way until we go up. The answer is to stop being shit at home. And the support has zero percent impact on said performances.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 12:58:08 GMT
Yes because it’s happy clapping. Saying it’s not doesn’t mean that it isn’t 😂 I don’t moaning. I want action. I think the time has passed mind. Just look at the reaction to any of the owners being an issue and it’s like you’ve murdered someone’s family. Despite them being the root of the issue at this club and at the centre of its demise in the 7 years. We’re in a never ending spiral of trudgery until they leave or wake up or get lucky. There’s no plan. Just luck. We'll have to agree to disagree with what you are telling me I am saying. You even think you know what others are saying. Astonishing narcissism. You literally described happy clapping.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 12:59:14 GMT
The answer is to stop being shit at home. And the support has zero percent impact on said performances. None what so ever. I thought against Coventry and Rotherham the fans tried their damndest and it didn’t change a thing.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 13:00:31 GMT
And the support has zero percent impact on said performances. None what so ever. I thought against Coventry and Rotherham the fans tried their damndest and it didn’t change a thing. So give up trying?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 29, 2022 13:00:59 GMT
The answer is to stop being shit at home. And the support has zero percent impact on said performances. It has some but it’s overstated. Inject some life and invention and fizz into our performances at home and the crowd can feed off that. Ponderously shuffle around cluelessly and of course a crowd isn’t going to be energised or positive.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 13:02:02 GMT
None what so ever. I thought against Coventry and Rotherham the fans tried their damndest and it didn’t change a thing. So give up trying? I don’t think we have. The support isn’t an issue. The issue is on the pitch and in the boardroom.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 13:02:39 GMT
We'll have to agree to disagree with what you are telling me I am saying. You even think you know what others are saying. Astonishing narcissism. You literally described happy clapping. So now being supportive when we do good things is happy clapping? And trying to motivate the team is happy clapping? Happy clapping is cheering Lambert off the pitch when we've been relegated.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 13:05:33 GMT
You literally described happy clapping. So now being supportive when we do good things is happy clapping? And trying to motivate the team is happy clapping? Happy clapping is cheering Lambert off the pitch when we've been relegated. We are supportive when we do good things. The general thing we do at home though isn’t good. We’ve been far too nice with them and they’ve got away with murder. Indeed it is and that’s part of this timeframe of the crowd being far too accepting of any old shite.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 13:06:19 GMT
And the support has zero percent impact on said performances. It has some but it’s overstated. Inject some life and invention and fizz into our performances at home and the crowd can feed off that. Ponderously shuffle around cluelessly and of course a crowd isn’t going to be energised or positive. So it has an effect? I've said it's not going to transform players into world beaters but it does have an effect. Sitting in silence achieves nothing. You said it's a symbiotic relationship and yet it's all got to come from the players and the support just have to sing when we're winning? You can't have a one way symbiotic relationship.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 13:07:34 GMT
So now being supportive when we do good things is happy clapping? And trying to motivate the team is happy clapping? Happy clapping is cheering Lambert off the pitch when we've been relegated. We are supportive when we do good things. The general thing we do at home though isn’t good. We’ve been far too nice with them and they’ve got away with murder. Indeed it is and that’s part of this timeframe of the crowd being far too accepting of any old shite. We'll have to agree to disagree on that as well.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 29, 2022 13:12:40 GMT
It has some but it’s overstated. Inject some life and invention and fizz into our performances at home and the crowd can feed off that. Ponderously shuffle around cluelessly and of course a crowd isn’t going to be energised or positive. So it has an effect? I've said it's not going to transform players into world beaters but it does have an effect. Sitting in silence achieves nothing. You said it's a symbiotic relationship and yet it's all got to come from the players and the support just have to sing when we're winning? You can't have a one way symbiotic relationship. Not sing when they’re winning, no. The crowd respond to effort, to hope, to a team clearly going through the gears - that’s the inspiration they need whatever the result. Presumably when we’re slowly pattercaking the ball to each other on the halfway line you’re into your fourth chorus of We’ll Be With You?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 29, 2022 13:19:02 GMT
So it has an effect? I've said it's not going to transform players into world beaters but it does have an effect. Sitting in silence achieves nothing. You said it's a symbiotic relationship and yet it's all got to come from the players and the support just have to sing when we're winning? You can't have a one way symbiotic relationship. Not sing when they’re winning, no. The crowd respond to effort, to hope, to a team clearly going through the gears - that’s the inspiration they need whatever the result. Presumably when we’re slowly pattercaking the ball to each other on the halfway line you’re into your fourth chorus of We’ll Be With You? I think the Rotherham game was a great case study for this. The first 10 minutes were dire. The first thing we did was belt the ball out of play from kick off and that set the tone for the next 10 minutes. But then it changed when the team finally realised how shit the opposition were and we went at them.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 29, 2022 16:38:38 GMT
So it has an effect? I've said it's not going to transform players into world beaters but it does have an effect. Sitting in silence achieves nothing. You said it's a symbiotic relationship and yet it's all got to come from the players and the support just have to sing when we're winning? You can't have a one way symbiotic relationship. Not sing when they’re winning, no. The crowd respond to effort, to hope, to a team clearly going through the gears - that’s the inspiration they need whatever the result. Presumably when we’re slowly pattercaking the ball to each other on the halfway line you’re into your fourth chorus of We’ll Be With You? No. But I'm not calling Clucas a cunt before he gets on the pitch either as the people round me were doing 2 games ago. The football is poor but the crowd is more or less silent unless we score. And if we go behind it's abject. As I thought, any criticism of the support is seen as sacrilege and despite all other areas of life, at Stoke City, giving encouragement is deemed to have zero or an over rated effect. So, I guess we'll have to disagree on this one.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 29, 2022 16:43:42 GMT
Not sing when they’re winning, no. The crowd respond to effort, to hope, to a team clearly going through the gears - that’s the inspiration they need whatever the result. Presumably when we’re slowly pattercaking the ball to each other on the halfway line you’re into your fourth chorus of We’ll Be With You? No. But I'm not calling Clucas a cunt before he gets on the pitch either as the people round me were doing 2 games ago. The football is poor but the crowd is more or less silent unless we score. And if we go behind it's abject. As I thought, any criticism of the support is seen as sacrilege and despite all other areas of life, at Stoke City, giving encouragement is deemed to have zero or an over rated effect. So, I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. You’re talking about two different things though? Yeah the abuse you talk of there with Clucas is unhelpful and absolutely not on. The crowd wasn’t silent against Rotherham or even Coventry though? It’s quiet when the team is playing snail-paced, turgid pap, which is the norm. There isn’t a set of supporters in the land who would behave differently in those circumstances.
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 29, 2022 16:50:58 GMT
I think if we got a sports psychologist in we are so bad we may even break them too
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 29, 2022 17:05:24 GMT
Good luck with psycho analysing over 15k people!! JC could do with a bit of coaching though, I reckon.. how on Earth he thought that giving O'Neill the summer transfer window before sacking him beggars belief, it really does.
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