|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 3, 2022 14:35:18 GMT
I don’t believe he did run a holiday camp. I do question why we had a squad full of injured players though. It doesn’t help bring a squad to competitive fitness when half of them are always in the treatment room. They have looked off pace all season, it’s hard to remember more than one game really where we have won most of the 50-50s. Neil has commented that he’s tried to push them harder than they were used to. I’d be surprised if he was simply lying about that. I’d also be surprised if a modern day footballer came close to doing what’s akin to a full day of work. I’d be shocked if, after training, they sat down together and watched video after video of the opposition and of their own performances. They certainly don’t look like they know much about each other/the opposition. Edit: I don’t expect footballers in this division to be that talented. I do however, expect them to be organized and committed. Pulis’ walking drills used to wind up lots of players and were seen as an anomaly. However, at least we always knew what we were supposed to do and looked like a team. Apart from 2 games last season (Fulham 0-3, Middlesbrough 1-3) we were still in every game of last season going into injury time. I don't think that's the sign of a particularly unfit team, you can question the intensity the manager wanted the team to play at but not sure about the fitness? As for the injuries, the ones to our ain players were all just unlucky. Major injuries that could happen any time any where such as ACL, Achilles injuries or broken bones. As for the new manager questioning the fitness and intensity I take some of it with a pinch of salt, it's what new managers generally do in my experience......... Our midfield was constantly overrun and outfought last season. It has happened regularly this season. Part of the reason we were “in the game” until the last bit of it for much of the year is that a club will score and then being to gradually set up shop. When a team actually went for the jugular, we were rolled over, as yesterday. Souttar was overplayed. As was Tymon. It’s reasonable to suggest that Powell was rushed back to fitness seen as though he still hasn’t managed a run of games despite only suffering a fracture almost a year ago.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 3, 2022 14:40:30 GMT
Apart from 2 games last season (Fulham 0-3, Middlesbrough 1-3) we were still in every game of last season going into injury time. I don't think that's the sign of a particularly unfit team, you can question the intensity the manager wanted the team to play at but not sure about the fitness? As for the injuries, the ones to our ain players were all just unlucky. Major injuries that could happen any time any where such as ACL, Achilles injuries or broken bones. As for the new manager questioning the fitness and intensity I take some of it with a pinch of salt, it's what new managers generally do in my experience......... Our midfield was constantly overrun and outfought last season. It has happened regularly this season. Part of the reason we were “in the game” until the last bit of it for much of the year is that a club will score and then being to gradually set up shop. When a team actually went for the jugular, we were rolled over, as yesterday. Souttar was overplayed. As was Tymon. It’s reasonable to suggest that Powell was rushed back to fitness seen as though he still hasn’t managed a run of games despite only suffering a fracture almost a year ago. Not sure who Harry Souttar was overplayed? He's a centre back they don't need to be rested. He was left out of a couple of the League Cup games which is normal, as was Tymon.........
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Oct 3, 2022 14:52:04 GMT
Despite yesterdays debacle I’m still confident Neil is the right man for the job but it’s clearly not an easy fix because the recruitment has been terrible. We’re in a bizarre position where the squad has been arranged with 3 at the back as the main plan but a few injuries, albeit to key players, means we look bang average. Ideally we’d change to a 4 at the back but we haven’t got wingers or full backs to play 442 or 433 without playing players out of position. This season is a write off, we’ve got to hope our FFP situation gives us wriggle room next summer and Neil does a better job at squad building than MON. Campbell, Gayle, Fosu, DWP. We have ample options in wide positions to play a 433. Brown will provide more when he is fit. We have Sterling, Fox, Clarke, Wilmot (at a stretch), who can play full back. Tymon will provide more when fit. It’s a nonsense that we haven’t got the players to play a flat four. It’s the only system we have players for. Gayle would be completely wasted out wide. Brown and Campbell could do a job out wide but they’re not wingers and it’s not the best utilisation of any of those players. Fox is awful at LB largely due to a distinct lack of pace which causes problems in both the attacking and defending senses. Wilmot is limited in an attacking sense so Clarke and Sterling would be the best bet but again one of them would be asked to play as a right footed LB where they don’t usually play which is far from ideal. We‘ve only got the players to play 433 if certain players are played out of position or we drop someone like Gayle which doesn’t seem likely.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 3, 2022 14:53:55 GMT
Our midfield was constantly overrun and outfought last season. It has happened regularly this season. Part of the reason we were “in the game” until the last bit of it for much of the year is that a club will score and then being to gradually set up shop. When a team actually went for the jugular, we were rolled over, as yesterday. Souttar was overplayed. As was Tymon. It’s reasonable to suggest that Powell was rushed back to fitness seen as though he still hasn’t managed a run of games despite only suffering a fracture almost a year ago. Not sure who Harry Souttar was overplayed? He's a centre back they don't need to be rested. He was left out of a couple of the League Cup games which is normal, as was Tymon......... Souttar, at 75 foot tall travelled around the World to play international games and then came back to play the next game. He played vs Fleetwood and Brentford. Tymon played almost every minute of the Championship season and featured in 5 cup games as well.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 3, 2022 14:57:32 GMT
Campbell, Gayle, Fosu, DWP. We have ample options in wide positions to play a 433. Brown will provide more when he is fit. We have Sterling, Fox, Clarke, Wilmot (at a stretch), who can play full back. Tymon will provide more when fit. It’s a nonsense that we haven’t got the players to play a flat four. It’s the only system we have players for. Gayle would be completely wasted out wide. Brown and Campbell could do a job out wide but they’re not wingers and it’s not the best utilisation of any of those players. Fox is awful at LB largely due to a distinct lack of pace which causes problems in both the attacking and defending senses. Wilmot is limited in an attacking sense so Clarke and Sterling would be the best bet but again one of them would be asked to play as a right footed LB where they don’t usually play which is far from ideal. We‘ve only got the players to play 433 if certain players are played out of position or we drop someone like Gayle which doesn’t seem likely. At present, we are playing a left winger at right wing back and a right wing back at left wing back. If you believe that is a better utilization of the current squad than playing a 433 with narrow, inside forwards, or even one using Campbell wide right (the only place he’s ever looked effective (during his minor spell as a good Championship player 2 years ago)) then fair enough. Fox is a Championship standard left back. He has rarely had bad games there. He’s had plenty of bad games being shoehorned into the left side of a back 3 though. Also, to say a season is a write off after 11 games beggars belief.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 3, 2022 15:06:40 GMT
Not sure who Harry Souttar was overplayed? He's a centre back they don't need to be rested. He was left out of a couple of the League Cup games which is normal, as was Tymon......... Souttar, at 75 foot tall travelled around the World to play international games and then came back to play the next game. He played vs Fleetwood and Brentford. Tymon played almost every minute of the Championship season and featured in 5 cup games as well. He missed the Reading opener actually. Lots of players play around the world during international breaks and play the following weekend..................
|
|
|
Post by pushon on Oct 3, 2022 15:15:49 GMT
I assume that criticism of our defence has been done to death. But Neil really has an awful job on his hands. Sundays three played as though they hadn't even been introduced. Every time we recruit a defender, he performs worse than the guy he's replacing.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 3, 2022 15:16:07 GMT
Souttar, at 75 foot tall travelled around the World to play international games and then came back to play the next game. He played vs Fleetwood and Brentford. Tymon played almost every minute of the Championship season and featured in 5 cup games as well. He missed the Reading opener actually. Lots of players play around the world during international breaks and play the following weekend.................. Not that many go on international duty to the other side of the World. Not that many are built like him either. But evidently, we managed his fitness well. As we have with half the squad.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Oct 3, 2022 15:18:37 GMT
Gayle would be completely wasted out wide. Brown and Campbell could do a job out wide but they’re not wingers and it’s not the best utilisation of any of those players. Fox is awful at LB largely due to a distinct lack of pace which causes problems in both the attacking and defending senses. Wilmot is limited in an attacking sense so Clarke and Sterling would be the best bet but again one of them would be asked to play as a right footed LB where they don’t usually play which is far from ideal. We‘ve only got the players to play 433 if certain players are played out of position or we drop someone like Gayle which doesn’t seem likely. At present, we are playing a left winger at right wing back and a right wing back at left wing back. If you believe that is a better utilization of the current squad than playing a 433 with narrow, inside forwards, or even one using Campbell wide right (the only place he’s ever looked effective (during his minor spell as a good Championship player 2 years ago)) then fair enough. Fox is a Championship standard left back. He has rarely had bad games there. He’s had plenty of bad games being shoehorned into the left side of a back 3 though. Also, to say a season is a write off after 11 games beggars belief. Your proposed ‘solution’ to players currently being played out of position is to switch to a different system where players will also be out of position …. You mention using players as inside forwards which would be fine if we had a left back which could attack effectively to provide the width required. I think Fox is questionable defensively but I’m absolutely sure he wouldn’t be able to provide width required in an attacking sense because he’s never shown it whenever he’s played there.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 3, 2022 15:28:05 GMT
At present, we are playing a left winger at right wing back and a right wing back at left wing back. If you believe that is a better utilization of the current squad than playing a 433 with narrow, inside forwards, or even one using Campbell wide right (the only place he’s ever looked effective (during his minor spell as a good Championship player 2 years ago)) then fair enough. Fox is a Championship standard left back. He has rarely had bad games there. He’s had plenty of bad games being shoehorned into the left side of a back 3 though. Also, to say a season is a write off after 11 games beggars belief. Your proposed ‘solution’ to players currently being played out of position is to switch to a different system where players will also be out of position …. You mention using players as inside forwards which would be fine if we had a left back which could attack effectively to provide the width required. I think Fox is questionable defensively but I’m absolutely sure he wouldn’t be able to provide width required in an attacking sense because he’s never shown it whenever he’s played there. Fox provides a perfectly fine cross from deep. He’s a bang average Championship player. Campbell has had most success as a wide player in a 433 when feeding off of Fletcher. There’s no reason he couldn’t do the same with Delap. Fosu is a left winger. Campbell could play tighter to Delap (inside forward) as Sterling provides width from an overlap. Fosu could provide width on the other side of the pitch, as it’s his natural position. It’s not exactly rocket science.
|
|
|
Post by s7oke on Oct 3, 2022 15:39:10 GMT
Despite yesterdays debacle I’m still confident Neil is the right man for the job but it’s clearly not an easy fix because the recruitment has been terrible. We’re in a bizarre position where the squad has been arranged with 3 at the back as the main plan but a few injuries, albeit to key players, means we look bang average. Ideally we’d change to a 4 at the back but we haven’t got wingers or full backs to play 442 or 433 without playing players out of position. This season is a write off, we’ve got to hope our FFP situation gives us wriggle room next summer and Neil does a better job at squad building than MON. It doesn’t matter what formation we play when your centre halves are only fit for league 1 at a push
|
|
|
Post by LphPotter on Oct 3, 2022 15:40:27 GMT
How do you spell a name as simple as Alex Neil incorrectly?
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 3, 2022 15:54:55 GMT
He missed the Reading opener actually. Lots of players play around the world during international breaks and play the following weekend.................. Not that many go on international duty to the other side of the World. Not that many are built like him either. But evidently, we managed his fitness well. As we have with half the squad. He's not in cattle class, he's stretched out on a first class lounger. A terribly unlucky injury no more no less..........
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Oct 3, 2022 16:27:18 GMT
This narrative that MON ran a holiday camp and let the players do what they want and Neil has had to whip them all into shape just sounds like bollocks to me personally...... I don’t believe he did run a holiday camp. I do question why we had a squad full of injured players though. It doesn’t help bring a squad to competitive fitness when half of them are always in the treatment room. They have looked off pace all season, it’s hard to remember more than one game really where we have won most of the 50-50s. Neil has commented that he’s tried to push them harder than they were used to. I’d be surprised if he was simply lying about that. I’d also be surprised if a modern day footballer came close to doing what’s akin to a full day of work. I’d be shocked if, after training, they sat down together and watched video after video of the opposition and of their own performances. They certainly don’t look like they know much about each other/the opposition. Edit: I don’t expect footballers in this division to be that talented. I do however, expect them to be organized and committed. Pulis’ walking drills used to wind up lots of players and were seen as an anomaly. However, at least we always knew what we were supposed to do and looked like a team. every player right down to the U16's (& I think below) gets videos of their own performances from the club have done for years whether there is any merit in that I don't know
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Oct 3, 2022 16:34:59 GMT
This guy is just like the idiot at manu who has Ronaldo on the bench despite being one of the top players in the world, with his similar treatment of Campbell!
|
|
|
Post by nottinghamstokie on Oct 3, 2022 16:45:33 GMT
Not what you were saying a month ago when we had the quality in the squad and the system was the issue. Embarrassing that you're coming out trying to defend our worst home league defeat in the championship and protect the manager from any form of criticism. Its actually YOU that's embarrassing coming on here claiming to be a Stoke fan! You are not from Stoke or even Staffordshire, Your man has gone... Not coming back... Stop trying to wind up and goad real Stoke fans into a rage with your pathetic agenda! What a weird comment - I'm not from Stoke or Staffordshire but I've been supporting the team ( and coming to games )for 50 years......
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Oct 3, 2022 16:52:45 GMT
Your proposed ‘solution’ to players currently being played out of position is to switch to a different system where players will also be out of position …. You mention using players as inside forwards which would be fine if we had a left back which could attack effectively to provide the width required. I think Fox is questionable defensively but I’m absolutely sure he wouldn’t be able to provide width required in an attacking sense because he’s never shown it whenever he’s played there. Fox provides a perfectly fine cross from deep. He’s a bang average Championship player. Campbell has had most success as a wide player in a 433 when feeding off of Fletcher. There’s no reason he couldn’t do the same with Delap. Fosu is a left winger. Campbell could play tighter to Delap (inside forward) as Sterling provides width from an overlap. Fosu could provide width on the other side of the pitch, as it’s his natural position. It’s not exactly rocket science. I just think on balance the squad is more suited to a wing back formation at the moment. I’d be open to going with what you suggest but I wouldn’t expect it to radically change anything. I feel like we’d still have the same problems creating chances for the strikers, Delap and Gayle are good players but the service into them has been largely woeful this season and that’s a large part of the season they’re yet to score.
|
|
|
Post by butlerstbob on Oct 3, 2022 17:06:42 GMT
Its actually YOU that's embarrassing coming on here claiming to be a Stoke fan! You are not from Stoke or even Staffordshire, Your man has gone... Not coming back... Stop trying to wind up and goad real Stoke fans into a rage with your pathetic agenda! What a weird comment - I'm not from Stoke or Staffordshire but I've been supporting the team ( and coming to games )for 50 years...... Not wierd at all! You go to the games whereas he doesn't and never has and only joined this board because of his beloved MON!
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 3, 2022 17:47:12 GMT
Fox provides a perfectly fine cross from deep. He’s a bang average Championship player. Campbell has had most success as a wide player in a 433 when feeding off of Fletcher. There’s no reason he couldn’t do the same with Delap. Fosu is a left winger. Campbell could play tighter to Delap (inside forward) as Sterling provides width from an overlap. Fosu could provide width on the other side of the pitch, as it’s his natural position. It’s not exactly rocket science. I just think on balance the squad is more suited to a wing back formation at the moment. I’d be open to going with what you suggest but I wouldn’t expect it to radically change anything. I feel like we’d still have the same problems creating chances for the strikers, Delap and Gayle are good players but the service into them has been largely woeful this season and that’s a large part of the season they’re yet to score. Fair enough. Couldn’t agree more about the lack of service. We have too many midfielders who don’t seem to do too much. Personally, I’d next go with Bonham Sterling Wilmot Jagielka/Taylor Fox Laurent Thompson Baker Campbell/Gayle/DWP Fosu Delap No variation of the current midfield looks like creating much, but if Baker is further forward, at least he can shoot. If we can’t be creative, I’d have Thompson and Laurent on in the hopes that we at least don’t fall apart. All in all, we are fairly average without Powell, but I feel that the formation outlined above is still better than what we were made to watch on Sunday.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Oct 3, 2022 18:12:32 GMT
Did they say when or why this split/fracture occurred? Is the implication that it's down to Neil's stricter approach or is it a throwback to O'Neill? I was initially told this whilst O'Neill was still here in August. One suggestion was that players were very unsure of their longevity at the club, given the rate of playing staff turnover. Another was the players were unhappy at the level of chopping and changing of the team every week and the 'system' they were being shoehorned into. Another gripe was from players being bought in to the club (loan or permanent) and then barely being used. Former Stoke legend of my acquaintance also says some senior pros are not happy with Alex Neil since he rolled up for some reason - he's not sure why. Maybe they had it too easy under MoN and AN has lit a fire under them? Who knows? Maybe it will all come out in the wash. Ok mate ta. Doesn't sound very healthy either way.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2022 20:29:22 GMT
Despite yesterdays debacle I’m still confident Neil is the right man for the job but it’s clearly not an easy fix because the recruitment has been terrible. We’re in a bizarre position where the squad has been arranged with 3 at the back as the main plan but a few injuries, albeit to key players, means we look bang average. Ideally we’d change to a 4 at the back but we haven’t got wingers or full backs to play 442 or 433 without playing players out of position. This season is a write off, we’ve got to hope our FFP situation gives us wriggle room next summer and Neil does a better job at squad building than MON. Campbell, Gayle, Fosu, DWP. We have ample options in wide positions to play a 433. Brown will provide more when he is fit. We have Sterling, Fox, Clarke, Wilmot (at a stretch), who can play full back. Tymon will provide more when fit. It’s a nonsense that we haven’t got the players to play a flat four. It’s the only system we have players for. Holden is hardly brain of Britain , but he managed to play a back four , for his one game in charge , this season , with the players we have now
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 3, 2022 20:43:41 GMT
Campbell, Gayle, Fosu, DWP. We have ample options in wide positions to play a 433. Brown will provide more when he is fit. We have Sterling, Fox, Clarke, Wilmot (at a stretch), who can play full back. Tymon will provide more when fit. It’s a nonsense that we haven’t got the players to play a flat four. It’s the only system we have players for. Holden is hardly brain of Britain , but he managed to play a back four , for his one game in charge , this season , with the players we have now And actually said we’ll play players in their right position then Neil,arrives abd brown becomes a right wing back , wing Babis are back , Thomson gets dropped at reading he’s really taken us back to O’Neil
|
|
|
Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on Oct 3, 2022 22:26:02 GMT
Nothing makes sense yet. We saw a 433 at Blackburn prior on AN stepping in. We saw the difference, despite being a bit ropey. 352 was killing us.
Versus Watford we play long ball, yes long ball, down the channels and back to the poisonous 352. Delap is not going to score goals, I don’t recall him going close or bringing a save from the keeper. He is doing to us what CR7 did screwing up manure. There is ZERO chemistry with Delap and Gayle.
I’d like to see 443 given another go with Flint & Taylor CBs and Ty / Gayle/ Brown up front. Thompson/ Laurent/ Baker in midfield with Delap, Smallbone on bench. Can’t see this happening though.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 4, 2022 10:46:53 GMT
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 4, 2022 10:49:13 GMT
Aug 27th until Oct 4th and folk are doubting the bloke already🤔🙄 Absolutely bizzare
|
|
|
Post by iglugluk on Oct 4, 2022 10:55:55 GMT
Its actually YOU that's embarrassing coming on here claiming to be a Stoke fan! You are not from Stoke or even Staffordshire, Your man has gone... Not coming back... Stop trying to wind up and goad real Stoke fans into a rage with your pathetic agenda! What a weird comment - I'm not from Stoke or Staffordshire but I've been supporting the team ( and coming to games )for 50 years...... The quote has to be viewed in the context of when it was posted, the individual to whom it was written and the history of that person. I'm not from Stoke or Staffs either btw
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Oct 4, 2022 11:59:20 GMT
Aug 27th until Oct 4th and folk are doubting the bloke already🤔🙄 Absolutely bizzare What is also bizarre is the worst performance in application and attitude of the season on Sunday after a 2 week break.
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Oct 4, 2022 12:06:43 GMT
Campbell, Gayle, Fosu, DWP. We have ample options in wide positions to play a 433. Brown will provide more when he is fit. We have Sterling, Fox, Clarke, Wilmot (at a stretch), who can play full back. Tymon will provide more when fit. It’s a nonsense that we haven’t got the players to play a flat four. It’s the only system we have players for. Gayle would be completely wasted out wide. Brown and Campbell could do a job out wide but they’re not wingers and it’s not the best utilisation of any of those players. Fox is awful at LB largely due to a distinct lack of pace which causes problems in both the attacking and defending senses. Wilmot is limited in an attacking sense so Clarke and Sterling would be the best bet but again one of them would be asked to play as a right footed LB where they don’t usually play which is far from ideal. We‘ve only got the players to play 433 if certain players are played out of position or we drop someone like Gayle which doesn’t seem likely. Campbell could do a job but he's not a winger? His best, most consistent run for Stoke was playing as a wide forward in a 4-2-3-1 with Fletcher up top and Powell at 10. He's shown fuck all playing through middle on his own or in a 2. It's probably safe to say that Campbell's best position is at wide forward.
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 4, 2022 12:18:22 GMT
Aug 27th until Oct 4th and folk are doubting the bloke already🤔🙄 Absolutely bizzare What is also bizarre is the worst performance in application and attitude of the season on Sunday after a 2 week break. I’m well aware of that and if that was to continue then fans would have the right to question it but not after 5 bastard games
|
|