Dog's Dinner of a Team- Dog's Dinner of a Performance

[Trouserdog]

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

[gawa]

This is a very good squad which is just unfortunately hampered by injuries to key players and a lack of cover/quality in some positions.

I have no doubt that Josh Tymon, Harry Souttar, Harry Clarke, Josh Laurent and Nick Powell would walk into the first XI and transform them. That's 60% of our outfield players.

Obviously there are still gaps in some areas and I think Alex Neil may have missed a trick by signing a third RWB/RB on loan over a new GK or LCB.

But once the injured return I'm confident Alex will get more out of this team. He has to.

[AlbertTatlock]

That reminds me I better go and feed my dog.

Gouranga.

[Staffsoatcake]

Sept 4, 2022 13:59:50 GMT gawa said:

This is a very good squad which is just unfortunately hampered by injuries to key players and a lack of cover/quality in some positions.

I have no doubt that Josh Tymon, Harry Souttar, Harry Clarke, Josh Laurent and Nick Powell would walk into the first XI and transform them. That's 60% of our outfield players.

Obviously there are still gaps in some areas and I think Alex Neil may have missed a trick by signing a third RWB/RB on loan over a new GK or LCB.

But once the injured return I'm confident Alex will get more out of this team. He has to.

DO we have a good squad thougb,I've been hearing this now for 3years,but we keep playing crap.

[gawa]

Sept 4, 2022 14:17:06 GMT Staffsoatcake said:

Sept 4, 2022 13:59:50 GMT gawa said:

This is a very good squad which is just unfortunately hampered by injuries to key players and a lack of cover/quality in some positions.

I have no doubt that Josh Tymon, Harry Souttar, Harry Clarke, Josh Laurent and Nick Powell would walk into the first XI and transform them. That's 60% of our outfield players.

Obviously there are still gaps in some areas and I think Alex Neil may have missed a trick by signing a third RWB/RB on loan over a new GK or LCB.

But once the injured return I'm confident Alex will get more out of this team. He has to.

DO we have a good squad thougb,I've been hearing this now for 3years,but we keep playing crap.

I think good squad is maybe the wrong phrase by me.

We have a very good starting XI when everyone is fit which can go head to toe with anyone. And we have a decent bench too when everyone is fit.

But we obviously lack balance and depth in the squad. And that shows at times like today.

[theonlooker]

We have to give Alex Neil time to get it right. His teams were notoriously slow starters at Preston before travelling through the gears.

He deserves this time to settle in and find out what his best side is, as worrying as the second half was today.

[thehartshillbadger]

433

Bonham
Clarke. Souttar. Wilmot. Tymon

Laurent
Baker. Powell

Brown. Campbell
Delap

[Bojan Mackey]

Sept 4, 2022 14:34:43 GMT thehartshillbadger said:

433

Bonham
Clarke. Souttar. Wilmot. Tymon

Laurent
Baker. Powell

Brown. Campbell
Delap

Taylor for Wilmot and Fosu for brown and that’s a team that should actually be able to win a game.

[Rick Grimes]

Sept 4, 2022 14:28:56 GMT theonlooker said:

We have to give Alex Neil time to get it right. His teams were notoriously slow starters at Preston before travelling through the gears.

He deserves this time to settle in and find out what his best side is, as worrying as the second half was today.

It’s also blatantly clear that the team is not fit enough at the moment and that isn’t something that can be fixed overnight.

[westlandstokie]

Sept 4, 2022 13:49:47 GMT Trouserdog said:

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

Bungling gaggle of half wits 😂 brilliant…that sums up perfectly our squad. I keep being told that we have the best squad in the league…but do we ? I can’t see it personally…I think it’s the poorest squad we’ve had for a long time.

[samuel32]

Sept 4, 2022 13:49:47 GMT Trouserdog said:

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

Can someone send this to Alex?

'What any of us could tell him in 6 seconds'. Could Rory Delap not spare 6 seconds? He's been a consistent viewer of the same shit. Has it not occurred to him to not do the same shit. Or is he getting ignored?

[Ron]

I keep seeing folk saying it’s a good squad. It’s a cobbled together Unbalanced pile of horseshit with overrated players who deliver very little.

I can’t have this sorry bunch any longer.

Bemoan injuries all you like but Jesus Christ there’s some utter wank in this squad- 75 % of the squad is appalling. Let’s not kid ourselves.

At the moment Souttar Powell possibly Tymon and maybe Baker. Brown is ok. Delap may come good. The rest are either unproven kids or journeymen that have had their day. Sprinkled with wank below average shite.

MON’s legacy laid bare for all to see today.

Our recruitment team is a laughing stock amongst agents I’m lead to believe and looking at the disjointed shite I’m witnessing and the odd squad that’s put together I can see why.

A fucking shambles ever since John took the reins- he’s totally out of his depth.

Let’s hope Neil sorts it out.

Sadly I think he will struggle given the lack of quality at his disposal.

Bonham Bursik Wilmot fox flint Taylor ( at the moment) fosu smallbone Clucas Thompson Campbell Gayle ( clearly past it) dwp sparrow are all, simply, not good enough.

[kev1060]

Bit harsh to put DWP in that list Ron. Hasn't been given a chance, apart from the odd 5 minutes!

[firfuxache]

One week in to a new manager’s reign and he’s already criticised for the legacy he’s been left and had no time to bring in alternatives. Today was a shit-fest but can you really lay any of that blame at AN’s door. He’s probably had 2-3 sessions with the squad and has identified a lot problems we’ve all known for some time. He’s got no wiggle room at the moment as regards to changing the playing staff but he’s expected to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. Welcome to Mission Impossible Mr Neil.

[nott1]

His results are about as good as MoN!

[firfuxache]

Sept 4, 2022 19:18:15 GMT nott1 said:

His results are about as good as MoN!

But MON had 3 years to assemble this squad. AN now has to work with it for the next 4 months. Bit of a difference.

[Gods]

Sept 4, 2022 19:15:32 GMT firfuxache said:

One week in to a new manager’s reign and he’s already criticised for the legacy he’s been left and had no time to bring in alternatives. Today was a shit-fest but can you really lay any of that blame at AN’s door. He’s probably had 2-3 sessions with the squad and has identified a lot problems we’ve all known for some time. He’s got no wiggle room at the moment as regards to changing the playing staff but he’s expected to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. Welcome to Mission Impossible Mr Neil.

To be fair many people on here were saying MON had a Top 6 squad at his disposal and it it was down to his poor management that we were in 18th place.

Now the same people are saying AN can't be expected to work miracles with this terrible squad.

Both can't be true and most opposition managers and pundits seem to believe the squad is a very good one for this level.

We should be doing a lot better, with this team, its as simple as that.

[ceejays]

Sept 4, 2022 13:49:47 GMT Trouserdog said:

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

Well given he’s brought Sterling to b the rwb then clearly his main formation would seem to b with wingbacks . Sterling and Tymon . So I guess we’ve got to let him implement it ?

[The Toxic Avenger]

Sept 5, 2022 7:20:42 GMT ceejays said:

Sept 4, 2022 13:49:47 GMT Trouserdog said:

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

Well given he’s brought Sterling to b the rwb then clearly his main formation would seem to b with wingbacks . Sterling and Tymon . So I guess we’ve got to let him implement it ?

Yeah but doing it when you don't have the players for it is daft. By all means implement it once Sterling and Tymon are available again. Do something else until then.

[Alvechurch Assassin]

He’s also got a new fan base with very little patience left in anyone or anything!

[stokiejoe]

Whether our squad is good or not is to a great extent irrelevant, we have a poor team. They don't blend as a team, they play as individuals and sadly as individuals who only met for the first time on the pitch.

Less talented players who play as a team will continue to beat us until we have a manager who thinks team.

Given the chance I think Neil will sort it but first he gas to get them fit enough to play 90 minutes

[onionman]

The last time we got relegated from this division, we spent most of the season saying we had a good squad which was just being badly managed and let down by the chaos at the club.

Wasn’t until the same players were getting regularly hammered 4-0 in the third division that everyone agreed they were a terrible group of players all along.

[davejohnno1]

Sept 4, 2022 13:49:47 GMT Trouserdog said:

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

Not much to disagree with there to be fair apart from one glaring error...Neil has adopted a back 3 in both of his games in charge.

[stokie223]

I think we have some good individual players that would walk in to most teams in the league, personally I don't think that's arguable. 
Unfortunately - however - the team is not as great as the sum of its parts.

We look so unbalanced/disjointed, whatever you want to say. It's worrying. 

[firfuxache]

Sept 4, 2022 20:51:05 GMT Gods said:

Sept 4, 2022 19:15:32 GMT firfuxache said:

One week in to a new manager’s reign and he’s already criticised for the legacy he’s been left and had no time to bring in alternatives. Today was a shit-fest but can you really lay any of that blame at AN’s door. He’s probably had 2-3 sessions with the squad and has identified a lot problems we’ve all known for some time. He’s got no wiggle room at the moment as regards to changing the playing staff but he’s expected to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. Welcome to Mission Impossible Mr Neil.

To be fair many people on here were saying MON had a Top 6 squad at his disposal and it it was down to his poor management that we were in 18th place.

Now the same people are saying AN can't be expected to work miracles with this terrible squad.

Both can't be true and most opposition managers and pundits seem to believe the squad is a very good one for this level.

We should be doing a lot better, with this team, its as simple as that.

I didn’t say we shouldn’t be in a better position than what we are. The fact of the matter is:
1) The mind set of the players has to change

2) training and conditioning has been overlooked by the previous regime and can’t be changed in 3 training sessions

3) tactics take time to instill in a squad. Again this can’t be achieved in 3 sessions

Neil knows the limitations of the previous manager’s tactics and training and sounds like he will get it through to this lot. My OP simply said we shouldn’t be lumping AN into the same category as MON based on the time scales each has had at the club.

[skip]

You can have a group of individuals with the requisite talents to make a good team, but you need an excellent manager to deploy them correctly.

As I said on the match day thread yesterday, I think/hope AN was experimenting with yesterdays formation, and experiments often fail as is their purpose - to test what doesn't work - and if he is half as astute and pragmatic as he appears to be, he learnt a painful lesson.

Regarding whether our failings are down to the manager or the players (can it not be both?), the lack of fitness is truly a sad inditement of MoN's coaching methods. How a lack of fitness (relative to the sport in question) can be tolerated six or seven games in or wherever we are is indefensive and MoN needs to own that, and it's up to AN to fix is ASAP.


Afterword: Maybe MoN thought the players were fit enough to play the system that he wanted to use, but the players weren't trained or deployed correctly, or simply weren't technically deft enough (which brings into stark focus the recruitment policy) to ensure best likelihood of it working. That they aren't fit enough for a change in system or approach mid game says all you need to know about MoN's managerial myopia.

[onionman]

Unfit, incompetent at set pieces, not drilled to play any system whatsoever and as individuals mostly unable to complete simple tasks like passing and controlling the ball. What on earth were they actually doing at training? Serious question as I genuinely can’t see the evidence of any training whatsoever.

[ceejays]

Sept 5, 2022 9:25:57 GMT davejohnno1 said:

Sept 4, 2022 13:49:47 GMT Trouserdog said:

It's always a worrying sign when you look at the team sheet pre-match and can't work out what the system is supposed to be. Once it dawned on me that we were going with wingbacks (even the words make me shudder) and that those wingbacks were Jacob Brown and Tariq Fosu (but on his wrong side, ladies and gentlemen) I knew what kind of shit we were in for.

I get it. All the modern managers like wingbacks. A 4-2-3-1 is so 2017, and all the hipsters on Twitter want to see 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-3, but if you haven't got the players for it, the side looks so devoid of attacking spark that you might as well give up before you've even kicked off. The system is absolutely doomed to fail without the proper personnel, and from now on any Stoke City manager who even thinks about playing wingbacks pre-game should immediately be injected in the arse with a general anasthetic, his comatose body bound and gagged, then locked in a cupboard until the match is over.

I know the 4-3-3 we played in the last two games was by no means perfect, but playing that formation with a high press, we looked like we at least had a plan. Today, for some inexplicable reason, was a deliberate return to not having a plan. It was a return to pedestrian passing, no movement off the ball, possession for possession's sake- in other words, the same dark cul-de-sac that Michael O'Neil has spent the last two years groping around in, and to be honest, Alex Neil needs to get himself the fuck out of there immediately because I for one can't take 6 months of watching anyone work out what any of us could tell him in 6 seconds.

Systems are only half the story of course, because the bungling gaggle of half-wits we've assembled as a squad could probably make any system look bad. A goalkeeper charging out of his box like like a man fleeing from a scary ghost only he can see; strikers who pin defenders into a corner and then proceed to shove them in the back; centre-backs who lunge into challenges with their eyes closed, unable to connect with a bouncing ball, but perfectly capable of connecting with a man in their own box; midfielders and strikers who never seem to break into anything more than a jog...it's just fucking pathetic.

Alex Neil might well have looked at the nice cosy set-up here and had a lovely chat at the shiny bet365 offices with Kind Jon and Lovable Uncle Peter, and he's probably thought, wow, what a sound club this is- I get to just manage things my way, no-one's interfering or telling me what to do, and they're going to double my pay as well. No brainer- sign me up for this! Ho, ho...but wait until you see what's in the dressing room Alex! Wait until you get them out on the training pitch and then it'll dawn on you. You've inherited a dog's dinner. Not a decent quality one either like Pedigree Chum- more like a bucket of offal, gristle and other dogs' sick. Now come on Alex, get moulding it into a team.

Not much to disagree with there to be fair apart from one glaring error...Neil has adopted a back 3 in both of his games in charge.

Eh ? Versus Swansea he went with back four . Wilmot Flint Taylor Fox . You could argue a back 3 when he substituted Taylor but that was around 70 minutes

[iglugluk]

Sept 5, 2022 11:01:28 GMT onionman said:

Unfit, incompetent at set pieces, not drilled to play any system whatsoever and as individuals mostly unable to complete simple tasks like passing and controlling the ball. What on earth were they actually doing at training? Serious question as I genuinely can’t see the evidence of any training whatsoever.

Was the Rory Delap training video teaser actually indicative of the general nature of the sessions under O'Neill?

Given our previous manager's recent past before he was hired, it does make me wonder if National team management had caused him to forget the basics such as fitness training?

I'm not sure how our abysmal throw-ins over his entire reign can be understood though, it has to be said!

[spiderpuss]

Sept 5, 2022 11:29:09 GMT iglugluk said:

Sept 5, 2022 11:01:28 GMT onionman said:

Unfit, incompetent at set pieces, not drilled to play any system whatsoever and as individuals mostly unable to complete simple tasks like passing and controlling the ball. What on earth were they actually doing at training? Serious question as I genuinely can’t see the evidence of any training whatsoever.

Was the Rory Delap training video teaser actually indicative of the general nature of the sessions under O'Neill?

Given our previous manager's recent past before he was hired it does make me wonder if National team management had caused him to forget the basics such as fitness training?
I'm not sure how our abysmal throw-ins over his entire reign can be understood though, it has to be said!

Precisely the problem. MON didn't need to get player's fit, that's the club's domain.