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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 31, 2023 17:49:10 GMT
You could blame the vaccine, or you could just blame things like poverty, poor access to healthcare resources on now very strained systems and on top of that, an ever increasingly obese world population. I just looked up the total excess deaths in US states from April-Nov 2022. If the vaccines were the single most important thing that explained everything, then wouldn't you expect more deaths where more people are vaccinated, instead of the opposite? There were more excess deaths in the least-vaccinated 5 states compared with the most vaccinated. The most vaccinated state is Rhode Island, where there were fewer deaths than normal. IMO a reasonable guess is that the vaccines helped reduce hospital overload and avoided some long COVID but the pandemic effects are still hurting people. COVID damaged lungs and hearts of survivors, or people lost loved ones or jobs, drank a lot or skipped medical checks. Plus hospitals were overloaded and now staff are burnt out. Perhaps my sarcasm wasn’t being noted. I do not blame the vaccine. I blame the other variables I highlighted in my post. I also blame the selection of one acute data point.
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Post by superjw on Jan 31, 2023 18:18:08 GMT
The almost complete and unnecessary shutdown of the NHS during covid, leading to the biggest waiting lists ever seen is a contributing factor among probably many. It's a fact people can't get treatment quick enough.
I'd also agree that timing plays a part too as someone else said - the huge population jump with the boomers is getting to the time where high numbers cash in their ticket.
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Post by gawa on Jan 31, 2023 18:33:09 GMT
The almost complete and unnecessary shutdown of the NHS during covid, leading to the biggest waiting lists ever seen is a contributing factor among probably many. It's a fact people can't get treatment quick enough. I'd also agree that timing plays a part too as someone else said - the huge population jump with the boomers is getting to the time where high numbers cash in their ticket. Certainly contributed but the NHS issues were about long before covid. While I don't deny covid will have contributed, the problems with the uk health system were already heavily embedded. In 2018 in Northern Ireland over 100k people were waiting over for treatment/appointment. In October 2022 England I believe 400k people are waiting over a year. So 5% of our population in NI were waiting over a year pre pandemic. Whereas in England post pandemic only 0.7% of your population is waiting a year. I'm not trying to say NHS England isn't in crisis BTW. Just highlighting that parts of the NHS such as in NI were already crumbling long before covid. The tories don't give a single shit.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 31, 2023 21:03:42 GMT
Imagine if these excess deaths were covid deaths, people would be hysterical and the MSM predicting the end of the world.
Whatever the cause there is a moral obligation to throughly get to the bottom as to why, not least because of the possibility (no matter how remote) that they may a connection to the jab, and half the fuckin world is jabbed.
Follow the science till it’s no longer the science.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Feb 5, 2023 2:33:31 GMT
Has anyone noticed how many RIP threads are posted on the oatcake recently? A quick comparison of the board from 2019 for similar time of year (pages 122-124) to pages 1-3 there are 2 vs 13 RIP threads. Are excess deaths at 16% responsible for this? or is it a coincidence? Just an observation. Let's not forget that 70-80 years ago there was a rapid increase in the birth rate (baby boomers) which in turn lead to a global population boom. The obvious and natural outcome is an increase in the death rate which will have been rising for a few years now I suspect. This could explain why so many in that age group are suddenly popping off in high numbers. Is it just that age group
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Post by mtrstudent on Feb 5, 2023 16:44:46 GMT
Imagine if these excess deaths were covid deaths, people would be hysterical and the MSM predicting the end of the world. Whatever the cause there is a moral obligation to throughly get to the bottom as to why, not least because of the possibility (no matter how remote) that they may a connection to the jab, and half the fuckin world is jabbed. Follow the science till it’s no longer the science. I agree we desperately need to work out what's going on but the reaction being different to COVID makes loads of sense to me. For one, excess death rates were far higher during COVID. About 300 % higher than the worst week we've seen so far recently. We knew the excess deaths during COVID spikes were effectively caused by COVID, so we knew what would happen if we just ignored COVID and let it infect freely. Right now we're not doing anything specific so whatever is causing these excess deaths is already doing its worst case. Worst case COVID would have been 600k dead Brits in about a year, worst case "whatever happened in 2022" was ~47k. I value human life and think the scientific method is our most powerful tool, so we should use it to understand what's going on and see how we can save as many people as possible!
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Post by mutters on Feb 5, 2023 18:26:03 GMT
Imagine if these excess deaths were covid deaths, people would be hysterical and the MSM predicting the end of the world. Whatever the cause there is a moral obligation to throughly get to the bottom as to why, not least because of the possibility (no matter how remote) that they may a connection to the jab, and half the fuckin world is jabbed. Follow the science till it’s no longer the science. I agree we desperately need to work out what's going on but the reaction being different to COVID makes loads of sense to me. For one, excess death rates were far higher during COVID. About 300 % higher than the worst week we've seen so far recently. We knew the excess deaths during COVID spikes were effectively caused by COVID, so we knew what would happen if we just ignored COVID and let it infect freely. Right now we're not doing anything specific so whatever is causing these excess deaths is already doing its worst case. Worst case COVID would have been 600k dead Brits in about a year, worst case "whatever happened in 2022" was ~47k. I value human life and think the scientific method is our most powerful tool, so we should use it to understand what's going on and see how we can save as many people as possible! We knew the excess deaths during COVID spikes were effectively caused by COVID, - How did we know this please? Worst case COVID would have been 600k dead Brits in about a year - Where does this figure come from please?
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Post by mtrstudent on Feb 5, 2023 20:54:14 GMT
I agree we desperately need to work out what's going on but the reaction being different to COVID makes loads of sense to me. For one, excess death rates were far higher during COVID. About 300 % higher than the worst week we've seen so far recently. We knew the excess deaths during COVID spikes were effectively caused by COVID, so we knew what would happen if we just ignored COVID and let it infect freely. Right now we're not doing anything specific so whatever is causing these excess deaths is already doing its worst case. Worst case COVID would have been 600k dead Brits in about a year, worst case "whatever happened in 2022" was ~47k. I value human life and think the scientific method is our most powerful tool, so we should use it to understand what's going on and see how we can save as many people as possible! We knew the excess deaths during COVID spikes were effectively caused by COVID, - How did we know this please? Worst case COVID would have been 600k dead Brits in about a year - Where does this figure come from please? Starting with the first question: were the excess deaths in 2020-21 virus related, I tried two tests: 1. compare excess deaths in countries with almost no virus (Australia and NZ but also Japan, S Korea, Taiwan) versus those that let a lot more people get infected (UK and others). Australia and NZ did lockdowns too, the only big difference is how much virus was around. So shouldn't the difference in excess deaths be related to the virus? 2. look at excess deaths in different times. Are they higher in weeks when a lot of people are infected? If the excess death pattern always follows waves in how much virus is around, then it seems likely the deaths are from the virus. Would you agree with trying those two tests
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Post by mutters on Feb 6, 2023 12:39:11 GMT
We knew the excess deaths during COVID spikes were effectively caused by COVID, - How did we know this please? Worst case COVID would have been 600k dead Brits in about a year - Where does this figure come from please? Starting with the first question: were the excess deaths in 2020-21 virus related, I tried two tests: 1. compare excess deaths in countries with almost no virus (Australia and NZ but also Japan, S Korea, Taiwan) versus those that let a lot more people get infected (UK and others). Australia and NZ did lockdowns too, the only big difference is how much virus was around. So shouldn't the difference in excess deaths be related to the virus? 2. look at excess deaths in different times. Are they higher in weeks when a lot of people are infected? If the excess death pattern always follows waves in how much virus is around, then it seems likely the deaths are from the virus. Would you agree with trying those two tests If I am reading this correctly, you appear to have made carte blanche assumptions and comparisons Have you compared official figures for the same countries for comparable periods? Would I agree - based on what I think you have done - definitely not
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 6, 2023 14:23:37 GMT
So MPs are now stating to raise this as an issue and it seems the official response we have been given by our Chief Medical Officer so far is plain false and completely misguided.
He has stated the increase in deaths is related to patients receiving reduced levels of statins.
However, official Government figures show that Statin prescriptions increased during Covid and continue to increase. My Doctor suggested them 2 weeks ago before I even had a blood test for my cholesterol level, and has again advised them even though my cholesterol level is consistently below 4, so they are definitely being pushed!!!)
This begs the question, why are we being lied to here by our Chief Medical Officer? or is this incompetence. It takes a couple of minutes to access this information.
And if we are being lied to about this, what else?
The Government's response seems to be that excess deaths are happening everywhere so it's not a problem!!!
It's strange how they didn't adopt that line over Covid?
The response by the Minister to the MP's question is appalling.
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Post by knype on Feb 6, 2023 18:52:35 GMT
So MPs are now stating to raise this as an issue and it seems the official response we have been given by our Chief Medical Officer so far is plain false and completely misguided. He has stated the increase in deaths is related to patients receiving reduced levels of statins. However, official Government figures show that Statin prescriptions increased during Covid and continue to increase. My Doctor suggested them 2 weeks ago before I even had a blood test for my cholesterol level, and has again advised them even though my cholesterol level is consistently below 4, so they are definitely being pushed!!!) This begs the question, why are we being lied to here by our Chief Medical Officer? or is this incompetence. It takes a couple of minutes to access this information. And if we are being lied to about this, what else? The Government's response seems to be that excess deaths are happening everywhere so it's not a problem!!! It's strange how they didn't adopt that line over Covid? The response by the Minister to the MP's question is appalling. Spot on, far too many excess deaths are occurring.
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Post by mtrstudent on Feb 7, 2023 15:59:42 GMT
Starting with the first question: were the excess deaths in 2020-21 virus related, I tried two tests: 1. compare excess deaths in countries with almost no virus (Australia and NZ but also Japan, S Korea, Taiwan) versus those that let a lot more people get infected (UK and others). Australia and NZ did lockdowns too, the only big difference is how much virus was around. So shouldn't the difference in excess deaths be related to the virus? 2. look at excess deaths in different times. Are they higher in weeks when a lot of people are infected? If the excess death pattern always follows waves in how much virus is around, then it seems likely the deaths are from the virus. Would you agree with trying those two tests If I am reading this correctly, you appear to have made carte blanche assumptions and comparisons Have you compared official figures for the same countries for comparable periods? Would I agree - based on what I think you have done - definitely not I'm using total death numbers gathered together by this study, for US states or regions I used the CDC tables. This seems like a normal data test to me and if you think that comparing places with lots of known COVID against those where we know there is zero-to-little COVID isn't useful for answering what COVID does to excess deaths then what would you do with the data to test?
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Post by mtrstudent on Feb 11, 2023 18:59:05 GMT
Just as an idea here's one of the graphs I made. These are weekly excess death rates for 2-year periods in a bunch of different places. Is there anything you'd read into that? e.g. for me I look at that and think that it looks like weekly numbers bobble about a bit, but you can see patterns happen sometimes like the orange line dips for a while at the beginning and then the green line goes up and stays above for a bit at the end. The numbers are normally between about -20 and +20, and that includes everything like people getting flu, falling off ladders, crashing cars etc.
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jack1
Youth Player
Posts: 297
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Post by jack1 on Feb 11, 2023 22:38:18 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Feb 19, 2023 19:17:37 GMT
Some good news in the last national stats, only goes through Feb 3rd though. They're still counting the latest. "The number of deaths registered in the UK in the week ending 3 February 2023 (Week 5) was 15,094, which was 1.1% above the five-year average (160 excess deaths); of these deaths, 540 involved COVID-19."
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2023 10:17:19 GMT
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Post by knype on Mar 1, 2023 12:10:53 GMT
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2023 12:33:55 GMT
What do you mean? What's your views on George Osborne and matt Hancock texts?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 1, 2023 12:38:27 GMT
I’d laugh if it wasn’t so serious, people trying to pin excess deaths on almost anything without even acknowledging that the jab MAY be a factor.
I think people don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s potentially so serious and can’t be undone.
If I could turn back the clock…
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 1, 2023 12:40:40 GMT
Durning Covid the zealousness with which people were trying to attribute deaths to Covid was astonishing.
Same people have gone very quiet
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 1, 2023 13:05:57 GMT
I’d laugh if it wasn’t so serious, people trying to pin excess deaths on almost anything without even acknowledging that the jab MAY be a factor. I think people don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s potentially so serious and can’t be undone. If I could turn back the clock… I now feel that refusing this excuse for a vaccine was the best decision I have made in my life despite the stress of being told that I (and my wife) would lose our jobs because of it and having that hanging over my family for 6 months up until the very last day before our proposed redundancies, when we were both reprieved by Javid's abrupt u-turn. I totally resent those who made me feel like I was being selfish now. God knows how history will look back at that one. It's clear now that the vaccine programme was horribly flawed, that data was manipulated and that many of those in authority also knew that to be the case. I am not an anti-vaxxer by any stretches of the imagination (my wife is a senior nurse) and there was clearly a time when there was a need for vaccines for this for certain members of our population, but that need was not addressed responsibly and totally mismanaged. If it could even be described as a vaccine it would be a reasonable start. I'm very happy with my natural immunity on this one thanks.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 1, 2023 13:11:06 GMT
I’d laugh if it wasn’t so serious, people trying to pin excess deaths on almost anything without even acknowledging that the jab MAY be a factor. I think people don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s potentially so serious and can’t be undone. If I could turn back the clock… I now feel that refusing this excuse for a vaccine was the best decision I have made in my life despite the stress of being told that I (and my wife) would lose our jobs because of it and having that hanging over my family for 6 months up until the very last day before our proposed redundancies when we were both reprieved by Javid's abrupt u-turn. I totally resent those who made me feel like I was being selfish now. God knows how history will look back at that one. It's clear now that the vaccine programme was horribly flawed, that data was manipulated and that many of those in authority also knew that to be the case. I am not an anti-vaxxer by any stretches of the imagination (my wife is a senior nurse) and there was clearly a time when there was a need for vaccines for this for certain members of our population, but that need was not addressed responsibly and totally mismanaged. If it could even be described as a vaccine it would be a reasonable start. I'm very happy with my natural immunity on this one thanks. And the fact that they’re still trying to force it onto kids is abhorrent In the US they’ve added it to the school vaccination program 😳, that coincidentally gives the vax producers total immunity from being sued!
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Post by knype on Mar 1, 2023 13:19:31 GMT
What do you mean? What's your views on George Osborne and matt Hancock texts? Not surprised by anything to do with politicians
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2023 13:28:03 GMT
What do you mean? What's your views on George Osborne and matt Hancock texts? Not surprised by anything to do with politicians Another tory apologist.
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Post by knype on Mar 1, 2023 13:31:31 GMT
Not surprised by anything to do with politicians Another tory apologist. All politicians...
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2023 13:42:08 GMT
Not Boris though. You know the clown is in trouble when the best he's got is 'Vladamir Corbyn' in a response on the cost of living at PMQ's. A total shambles of a human being. He wasn't wrong though, Corbyn is a disgrace. Not one politician in any of the parties is worthy of running the country. Boris to me is the best of a bad bunch, albeit a bad one! And there is your answer. Most modern politicians are shit. You only have to be better or more electable than your opponent. And he’s probably still winning that race Yep, sadly as bad as Boris is, the alternatives are much worse! Nothing story, move on... Dear me, how the MSM and the left must fear Boris in an election, they are trying their hardest to force him out before hand... Looks like there's a summer of discontent on its way, strike after strike, to add to the discontent in the Tory Party... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61946038All orchestrated by the lefty union nutters to oust Boris Looks like there's a summer of discontent on its way, strike after strike, to add to the discontent in the Tory Party... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61946038All orchestrated by the lefty union nutters to oust Boris One main difference borris wrote the law borris broke the law borris lied over and over again about breaking the law Kier and Angela were campaigning at a phone bank had a meal then continued after and let's not forget they did not make the law and if charged will both resign they have also been cleared once and are only being investigated again because of the Tory press and Tory party trying to distract from boris Both lied about it, both knew it was wrong, Kier agreed to all the laws raised with covid...
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Post by knype on Mar 1, 2023 13:43:41 GMT
Not Boris though. He wasn't wrong though, Corbyn is a disgrace. Not one politician in any of the parties is worthy of running the country. Boris to me is the best of a bad bunch, albeit a bad one! Yep, sadly as bad as Boris is, the alternatives are much worse! Nothing story, move on... Dear me, how the MSM and the left must fear Boris in an election, they are trying their hardest to force him out before hand... All orchestrated by the lefty union nutters to oust Boris All orchestrated by the lefty union nutters to oust Boris Both lied about it, both knew it was wrong, Kier agreed to all the laws raised with covid... All includes Boris.
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Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2023 13:48:38 GMT
As in the lefty union nutters to oust Boris?
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Post by knype on Mar 1, 2023 13:50:26 GMT
As in the lefty union nutters to oust Boris? You're talking in riddles now. Of course the unions want to take any Tory Government down and thats their aim. Boris deserved to go
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Post by henry on Mar 1, 2023 13:50:54 GMT
I’d laugh if it wasn’t so serious, people trying to pin excess deaths on almost anything without even acknowledging that the jab MAY be a factor. I think people don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s potentially so serious and can’t be undone. If I could turn back the clock… I now feel that refusing this excuse for a vaccine was the best decision I have made in my life despite the stress of being told that I (and my wife) would lose our jobs because of it and having that hanging over my family for 6 months up until the very last day before our proposed redundancies when we were both reprieved by Javid's abrupt u-turn. I totally resent those who made me feel like I was being selfish now. God knows how history will look back at that one. It's clear now that the vaccine programme was horribly flawed, that data was manipulated and that many of those in authority also knew that to be the case. I am not an anti-vaxxer by any stretches of the imagination (my wife is a senior nurse) and there was clearly a time when there was a need for vaccines for this for certain members of our population, but that need was not addressed responsibly and totally mismanaged. If it could even be described as a vaccine it would be a reasonable start. I'm very happy with my natural immunity on this one thanks. As someone who was dead against having the vax I’m disgusted with myself for being coerced into having it. Every day I regret having this shit put in me.
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