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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 16, 2022 8:48:47 GMT
How many people vote for the council and what demographic of Stoke fans are voting? It's not in any way shape or form an accurate reflection of stoke fans because the vast majority probably don't even know the vote is taking place, or who they'd be voting for. So much so that certain people probably get re-elected each time because they have a core support that's enough. Should every season ticket holder be forced to vote, then I have no doubt at all we'd see a different outcome, especially now the general manager role has come to light. Like I said above, people with personal relationships won't be able to discuss objectively. The issues for me are there is a clear conflict of interest when the general manager of the women's team is sitting on the fans council, how can you represent the fans fully when you are a paid employee. You can't, that's a fact. As for the media duties, I see the same complaints week in, week out on twitter, in whatsapp groups etc. She's not the only one, I think they're all crap and need replacing. I don't doubt she's a lovely woman to know but that doesn't make my two points above any less valid. Last one....every single season ticket holder would have known about the electoon; every one of their 1 million twitter followers etc. I’m a season ticket holder, follow the club’s official pages on Facebook and Instagram, and only saw one post (Facebook news feed) about the election. Yes this one post got me to vote, but had I not seen that single post I wouldn’t have known about the election. My brother attends regularly with me and he knew nothing about it. If the club took it seriously there would be advertising of said election at the ground for 2-3 match-days prior with some flyers or at least a few posters.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 16, 2022 8:51:54 GMT
I happen to agree that it's a conflict of interest that she sits on the council, but some of the criticism is way over the top and unnecessary personal.
She loves the club like all Stoke fans, her interview style is what it is and if the managers had an issue with it I'm sure they'd say so, and as for accusations of her "worming her way in during Covid" they're just baseless nonsense. She dedicates a hell of a lot of time to the clubs often at her own cost I would imagine so give her a break for fucks sake........
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Post by 01782 on Sept 16, 2022 8:54:18 GMT
Last one....every single season ticket holder would have known about the electoon; every one of their 1 million twitter followers etc. I’m a season ticket holder, follow the club’s official pages on Facebook and Instagram, and only saw one post (Facebook news feed) about the election. Yes this one post got me to vote, but had I not seen that single post I wouldn’t have known about the election. My brother attends regularly with me and he knew nothing about it. If the club took it seriously there would be advertising of said election at the ground for 2-3 match-days prior with some flyers or at least a few posters. That's just it! I think the club view it as a flag-waving exercise so have little interest on who is on the council. Nothing ever comes of the meetings. The club will always do as it pleases, because they own it (and not the fans). "It's my ball. You can play with us, but don't forget it's my ball and I'll pick the teams"
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 16, 2022 8:55:23 GMT
Last one....every single season ticket holder would have known about the electoon; every one of their 1 million twitter followers etc. Like the general election....its not perfect but you can only win what's in front of you. I find it strange how paid staff have been on the council in the past by all accounts and yet its only now it gets flagged? I respect your opinion on her journalism. It's subjective. As a kind of wannabe journalist myself I think she's the best after match questioner by a mile. Because it was never mentioned. How are we meant to know who works at the club? Unless its declared its not something you’re going to know. Like many others I just presumed such an obvious conflict of interest wouldn’t be allowed. It was mentioned
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 16, 2022 9:25:41 GMT
I don’t know Ange , and also think the council is a waste of time , but if she’s employed by the club she shouldn’t be on it representing the fans it’s a massive conflict of interest, as her media role she need improve her questions as she answers them herself Spot on.
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 16, 2022 9:27:56 GMT
It seems to me the supporters council is a “click” and I would hazard a guess those who sit probably all know eachother anyway. I fear the council is filled full of yes people who would t dare say a bad thing about the club. The supporter experience, despite some talk of token gestures lately like the Delilah’s refurb ( which looks like it’ll be good tbf) the rest of the match day experience stinks. Kudos to the guy who’s stood down after having made the effort to try and resolve the traffic / park in g issues. I must say- for the time this “ council” has been in place the experience of supporters has not improved. The whole match day experience ( as discussed on many a thread) is a chore , especially when the football is as abject as it has been. Sadly-it seems to me the council is a fan engagement box ticker and those on the council are probably not representitive of the whole fan base and made up of home and away “ super fans” who’s kudos is measured by how many away games they go to. So many problems with the experience for all fans, from three arrival to the ground, the outdated facilities in and around the stadium , the lack of effort to create an atmosphere, poor policing in the ground of dickheads… the list could go on. Furthermore- the clubs fan communication is poor, the clubs media output is poor. I understand there may have been issues with the streams for fans abroad.
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 16, 2022 9:30:48 GMT
I happen to agree that it's a conflict of interest that she sits on the council, but some of the criticism is way over the top and unnecessary personal. She loves the club like all Stoke fans, her interview style is what it is and if the managers had an issue with it I'm sure they'd say so, and as for accusations of her "worming her way in during Covid" they're just baseless nonsense. She dedicates a hell of a lot of time to the clubs often at her own cost I would imagine so give her a break for fucks sake........ Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 16, 2022 9:31:33 GMT
Because it was never mentioned. How are we meant to know who works at the club? Unless its declared its not something you’re going to know. Like many others I just presumed such an obvious conflict of interest wouldn’t be allowed. It was mentioned Was it? When? And the ones who seem to know who they are just sneer away in the style of the useless thing they are defending. Ever likely the council is so blunt if it’s had employees on it previously. I didn’t bother voting this time because it is a joke but have done before and I can’t recall in their paragraph that anyone mentioned they worked at the club.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 16, 2022 9:43:44 GMT
Others can speak for themselves, but as the person who started this discussion, I will just confirm that I wouldn't for a millisecond question Angela's love of football or Stoke City. Individual listeners make their own judgements about her skills as a football journalist, as they do with any journalist. The issues I raised about the Supporters Council are not to do with any of that. They are about two principles of good governance - transparency and the need to avoid real or perceived conflicts of interest. No but your personal vendetta against her since she ousted yourself as chair will always raise its ugly head in these threads along with your band of merry men.You’ll always deny it with your little bits of praise now and again but sadly most can see through it Malcolm You won’t find any evidence of a “personal vendetta “ against Angela because there hasn’t ever been one. I have disagreed with decisions taken by the Council on alterations to its rules without consultation with wider supporter base, and on the questions raised in my initial post. I have done so in a professional and non-personal way. If you choose to characterise that as a personal vendetta rather than answering the points raised, you are ironically making a unjustified personal attack on me. Let’s stick to the issues of voting transparency and conflicts of interest.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 16, 2022 9:46:01 GMT
I happen to agree that it's a conflict of interest that she sits on the council, but some of the criticism is way over the top and unnecessary personal. She loves the club like all Stoke fans, her interview style is what it is and if the managers had an issue with it I'm sure they'd say so, and as for accusations of her "worming her way in during Covid" they're just baseless nonsense. She dedicates a hell of a lot of time to the clubs often at her own cost I would imagine so give her a break for fucks sake........ Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't. One quick search on You Tube, there are other press conferences pre-Covid as well if you want to check.......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 16, 2022 9:53:27 GMT
No but your personal vendetta against her since she ousted yourself as chair will always raise its ugly head in these threads along with your band of merry men.You’ll always deny it with your little bits of praise now and again but sadly most can see through it Malcolm You won’t find any evidence of a “personal vendetta “ against Angela because there hasn’t ever been one. I have disagreed with decisions taken by the Council on alterations to its rules without consultation with wider supporter base, and on the questions raised in my initial post. I have done so in a professional and non-personal way. If you choose to characterise that as a personal vendetta rather than answering the points raised, you are ironically making a unjustified personal attack on me. Let’s stick to the issues of voting transparency and conflicts of interest. Every other post from him is personal abuse of other posters. It’s very pathetic but never mind.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 16, 2022 9:58:07 GMT
Because it was never mentioned. How are we meant to know who works at the club? Unless its declared its not something you’re going to know. Like many others I just presumed such an obvious conflict of interest wouldn’t be allowed. It was mentioned Bunny I would be very interested to know when, where and by whom it has previously been mentioned that there have been other club employees on the Council. I always read the election statements and don’t recall it ever being mentioned, and it’s something I would certainly expect to notice. I was genuinely surprised when it was said higher in the thread that there had been 2/3 others in that position. To her credit Angela did mention it in her statement, the first time I can personally recall that happening. The issue is of course related to the voting turnout question and the publicity ( or lack of it) given to the election. If there is a big turnout then it can be argued that the fan base is aware of the situation and is happy, although I still think that it would be much better if Club employees , particularly those in any kind of senior role, were ineligible to stand.
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Post by theoptimist on Sept 16, 2022 10:07:46 GMT
Another thing of concern was the change (and the lack of supporter consultation) in the constitution to remove the restriction of time any person could be the chair. The whole thing stinks and has become stale. Hopefully the new CEO will look at this. Maybe he will join the council? 🤣
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 16, 2022 10:10:33 GMT
I happen to agree that it's a conflict of interest that she sits on the council, but some of the criticism is way over the top and unnecessary personal. She loves the club like all Stoke fans, her interview style is what it is and if the managers had an issue with it I'm sure they'd say so, and as for accusations of her "worming her way in during Covid" they're just baseless nonsense. She dedicates a hell of a lot of time to the clubs often at her own cost I would imagine so give her a break for fucks sake........ Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't. She's been doing press conferences since we were Stoke Ramblers
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 16, 2022 10:11:14 GMT
Like I said earlier, I'm off this thread now.
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Post by werrington on Sept 16, 2022 10:12:56 GMT
I happen to agree that it's a conflict of interest that she sits on the council, but some of the criticism is way over the top and unnecessary personal. She loves the club like all Stoke fans, her interview style is what it is and if the managers had an issue with it I'm sure they'd say so, and as for accusations of her "worming her way in during Covid" they're just baseless nonsense. She dedicates a hell of a lot of time to the clubs often at her own cost I would imagine so give her a break for fucks sake........ Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't. She?, get where water can’t? You’ve never named the lady once …..just talk like you’d expect people to talk about a close female family member etc and treat people accordingly instead of this personal stuff There’s elections next year mate get that name down
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Post by flea79 on Sept 16, 2022 10:28:27 GMT
I really feel this thread should be stopped and thrown away as its getting into potential libellous waters
Both Angela and Malcolm have done more for this club and the city and sport in general than we will ever truly understand, they both do it for the good of fellow stoke fans, folk of stoke on trent, and the wider population of the uk, Angela has been a strong advocate and role model for women in sport, Malcolm has represented english fans of all clubs at a high level and buys Nello fish and chips!
we owe them our gratitude and thanks, it does not mean they are above questioning or debate but the personal attacks being levelled at them both are frankly disgusting, if they both stopped representing us and the others tomorrow we would notice very quickly
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Post by 01782 on Sept 16, 2022 10:33:43 GMT
I might stick my name down next year for a hoot.
I'm a home and away supporter of 40 years standing (more recently seating.. with my knees) I think the matchday experience is currently woeful Parking and traffic congestion is a joke I am not employed by the club in any other capacity
Who's voting for me?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 16, 2022 10:51:51 GMT
I happen to agree that it's a conflict of interest that she sits on the council, but some of the criticism is way over the top and unnecessary personal. She loves the club like all Stoke fans, her interview style is what it is and if the managers had an issue with it I'm sure they'd say so, and as for accusations of her "worming her way in during Covid" they're just baseless nonsense. She dedicates a hell of a lot of time to the clubs often at her own cost I would imagine so give her a break for fucks sake........ Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't. I'm intrigued to know what Covid has to do with it. I've no idea if she was doing things before Covid (at least one poster has disputed your version of events), but even if she wasn't - was getting promoted in your job also a part of the lockdown restrictions during Covid? Unless you're suggesting she was moonlighting as the market inspector in Wuhan?
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 16, 2022 10:52:37 GMT
It's clear Angela shouldn't be on the council in her current capacity. Nobody could argue about her commitment to Stoke City but it's a clear conflict of interest, even if she declared it and people voted for her.
What's also clear to me is that the council needs a total overhaul, maybe even scrapped. I also don't get their refusal to publish number of voters - what is there to hide. It's obvious that they are embarrassed by the small number of voters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 10:57:18 GMT
I might stick my name down next year for a hoot. I'm a home and away supporter of 40 years standing (more recently seating.. with my knees) I think the matchday experience is currently woeful Parking and traffic congestion is a joke I am not employed by the club in any other capacity Who's voting for me? I think you've made an excellent point with those two issues you've mentioned. They should be hammered home relentlessly in every meeting they have, and more importantly, ask for updates on what is actually going on regarding improving the situation. Instead, we get a lot of meaningless subjects brought to the table that get fobbed off 99% of the time.
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 16, 2022 11:07:35 GMT
Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't. She?, get where water can’t? You’ve never named the lady once …..just talk like you’d expect people to talk about a close female family member etc and treat people accordingly instead of this personal stuff There’s elections next year mate get that name down Plenty other posters using the word she mate, in fact prestwich in the very post you've quoted has spoken exactly the same way, why not pull him up on it? As for putting my name down, I've considered it before but never bothered and unfortunately with our first born on the way and work being extremely busy I'd no longer be able to dedicate my time adequately enough to do the role any justice I'm afraid. If in the future, circumstances change I would certainly reconsider. (For the record, I have never been employed by the club despite the rumours/witch hunt that took place on here and Twitter would have you believe )
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 16, 2022 11:11:50 GMT
Forgive me if I'm wrong, the last few years all merge in to one but pre covid she was nowhere near press conferences and post match interviews let alone match commentary's if my memory serves me right? Then covid strikes and suddenly she's getting where water couldn't. I'm intrigued to know what Covid has to do with it. I've no idea if she was doing things before Covid (at least one poster has disputed your version of events), but even if she wasn't - was getting promoted in your job also a part of the lockdown restrictions during Covid? Unless you're suggesting she was moonlighting as the market inspector in Wuhan? Yes I said forgive me if my memory had served me incorrectly and it has been pointed out there was press conferences before covid, it just felt like all of a sudden during the covid era there was an increase in access and appearances. It struck me as odd how a member of the supporters council was suddenly doing matchday commentaries. Surely this would've been reserved for actual broadcasters and ex players.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Sept 16, 2022 11:54:54 GMT
It's obviously a conflict of interest, but Ange put it in her statement and people still voted for her.
The only problem seems to be the people losing sleep over it, (which in itself is a bit weird and pathetic really, it's a fans council at a football club ffs), didn't seem to vote, else (judging by how salty a lot of you are getting), she wouldn't have retained her seat would she? If your not happy about something, vote to change it. Don't bitch and moan after the event about the lady, behind anonymous names on a message board that she clearly reads.
There is genuinely no need for some of the comments some users are posting either. She clearly loves the club and has probably landed her dream job at said club. That and interviewing managers, being involved in the match day etc. is what most of us would love to do as our jobs. The people who continually jump on these threads to criticise Ange (it's always the same posters), just come across as bitter jealous fuckers and should be pretty embarrassed of themselves really. If stood in front of her, they wouldn't say jack shit.
I have no affiliation with Ange, don't know her, have never met her, but she only ever comes across as a really nice person who absolutely loves Stoke City.
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JudgeMental
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Post by JudgeMental on Sept 16, 2022 11:57:54 GMT
I absolutely reject any suggestion that this is gender-based discrimination. I did not know that another member of the Council has a journalist role and if that is the case, exactly the same comments apply. To the best of my recollection the questioners at most of the press conferences I’ve listed to ( not all of them by any means) have been Angela Smith and George Andrews. I have not been aware of others, and certainly not that he is a member of the Supporters Council. Similarly I was not aware that other Club employees sit on the Council or what job role they have. Your post has alerted me to the fact that this is perhaps a bigger issue than I realised for which I thank you. You obviously didn’t listen to yesterday’s press conference very closely then Out of interest - who was the other person (employee) asking questions at the presser?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 16, 2022 12:12:59 GMT
I really feel this thread should be stopped and thrown away as its getting into potential libellous waters Both Angela and Malcolm have done more for this club and the city and sport in general than we will ever truly understand, they both do it for the good of fellow stoke fans, folk of stoke on trent, and the wider population of the uk, Angela has been a strong advocate and role model for women in sport, Malcolm has represented english fans of all clubs at a high level and buys Nello fish and chips! we owe them our gratitude and thanks, it does not mean they are above questioning or debate but the personal attacks being levelled at them both are frankly disgusting, if they both stopped representing us and the others tomorrow we would notice very quickly That’s very kind of you flea and I certainly don’t disagree with your comments about Angela. It is always essential to separate the issues from the personalities. In my FSA role and when I was on the FA Council I often have to debate/disagree with people involved in running football but in most cases I know and respect that their love of the game and their clubs is strong, as is mine.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 16, 2022 12:22:56 GMT
Another thing of concern was the change (and the lack of supporter consultation) in the constitution to remove the restriction of time any person could be the chair. The whole thing stinks and has become stale. Hopefully the new CEO will look at this. Maybe he will join the council? 🤣 It wasn’t just the Chair role. The initial Council rules had a maximum of 3 2-year terms I.e 6 consecutive years in total for all members. Such fixed maximums are increasingly common in Sport and other areas. The Sport England code of good governance requires them. We now have a 3 x 3years maximum in the FSA and it’s the same on the FA Council. The Supporters Council decided to abolish the 6 year maximum without consulting the wider supporter base which was one the changes I referred to in my earlier post. There was an obvious conflict of interest there because it affected the members taking that decision. I don’t think the Club should have allowed the Council to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 12:30:21 GMT
I might stick my name down next year for a hoot. I'm a home and away supporter of 40 years standing (more recently seating.. with my knees) I think the matchday experience is currently woeful Parking and traffic congestion is a joke I am not employed by the club in any other capacity Who's voting for me? What is your take on cake at the ground?
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Post by flea79 on Sept 16, 2022 13:00:21 GMT
I might stick my name down next year for a hoot. I'm a home and away supporter of 40 years standing (more recently seating.. with my knees) I think the matchday experience is currently woeful Parking and traffic congestion is a joke I am not employed by the club in any other capacity Who's voting for me? What is your take on cake at the ground? im appalled by it!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 13:27:07 GMT
What is your take on cake at the ground? im appalled by it! I'm voting for the other guy
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