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Post by cheekymatt71 on Aug 29, 2022 10:43:31 GMT
I dont get why managers tend to go stale after 2 or 3 years in most jobs.
As everyone said - he was brilliant when he first came in and set us up so well in a 4-2-3-1 with Tyrese looking great before his cruciate injury.
But his obsession with 5-3-2 without real wing-backs and his in-game tactics were horrible to see. He regularly let teams swamp over us 2nd half and never responded to any tactics from the other manager. He should watch the game in the stands and not in the dug-out because he didnt seem to be aware of what was going on.
However he did fix the club and brought through a number of young players and we should be on the Up and Up.
Do managers get way too involved personally so they become so stubborn and stop listening to advisors?? It seems a regular thing (Hughes lost it after 3 years and so did Pulis).
I guess you must get annoyed with everyone having an opinion (fans, media, players and the boardroom) and so you shut all of that out and keep going with your gut instinct, even when a half-blind dog could see the same recurring problems on the pitch.
I remember Hughes admitting his errors a couple of years later. I doubt Pulis would ever admit his teams because too defensive and lacked any creativity.
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Post by Northy on Aug 29, 2022 10:46:30 GMT
To be determined by Alex Neil's tenure of course. I'm increasingly glad we sacked him before things turned truly sour, I feel he leaves not far off of someone like Hughes in my eyes. The bloke truly saved the club from League One, when he came in we had what... two wins in 15 and four points from safety. A squad at it's absolute lowest ebb, to say the atmosphere was toxic doesn't begin to do it justice. Michael came in, saved us, signed Tyrese up to a new contract at a time he had Premier League interest and he has introduced young players like Souttar, Tymon and Taylor into the fold. The squad has a great togetherness, the average age is much improved and most of all there's a sense that the dressing room has a lot of good relationships and positive characters in it. I think the legacy of MON might be that he exorcised our demons and created a good foundation for someone else (Alex Neil hopefully) to come in and succeed. I always thought that the bounce after Jones left also had a lot to do with the players actually giving a fook as Jones wasn't around.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 29, 2022 10:47:59 GMT
19/20 31 games 48 points 20/21 46 games 60 points 21/22 46 games 62 points 22/23 5 games 4 points 128 games and 174 points at 1.36 ppg I would say we’d have taken that when he first took over from Mad Nath but I understand why he had to go in the end.
I was trying to think of the best and worst game with him in charge and after some thought I’d go Best WBA home last season Worst Leeds away first season
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:49:59 GMT
See the edit I was reading it as a full season and it tied in with what I'd heard Jones come out with. If you check my edit out I added NJ's. It did pick up towards the end of his tenure to be fair, so you are correct. But for the majority of his stay it was in the yellow. Cheers. I obviously fell for his hard luck bullshit. Who'd of thought the god bothering bastard would lie?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:54:50 GMT
I dont get why managers tend to go stale after 2 or 3 years in most jobs. As everyone said - he was brilliant when he first came in and set us up so well in a 4-2-3-1 with Tyrese looking great before his cruciate injury. But his obsession with 5-3-2 without real wing-backs and his in-game tactics were horrible to see. He regularly let teams swamp over us 2nd half and never responded to any tactics from the other manager. He should watch the game in the stands and not in the dug-out because he didnt seem to be aware of what was going on. However he did fix the club and brought through a number of young players and we should be on the Up and Up. Do managers get way too involved personally so they become so stubborn and stop listening to advisors?? It seems a regular thing (Hughes lost it after 3 years and so did Pulis). I guess you must get annoyed with everyone having an opinion (fans, media, players and the boardroom) and so you shut all of that out and keep going with your gut instinct, even when a half-blind dog could see the same recurring problems on the pitch. I remember Hughes admitting his errors a couple of years later. I doubt Pulis would ever admit his teams because too defensive and lacked any creativity. Dunno exactly but there must be quite compelling evidence to back it up as most large organisations regularly rotate middle management to stop them going stale, building cliques and sidelining talent that does not fit with their personality.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:58:47 GMT
To be determined by Alex Neil's tenure of course. I'm increasingly glad we sacked him before things turned truly sour, I feel he leaves not far off of someone like Hughes in my eyes. The bloke truly saved the club from League One, when he came in we had what... two wins in 15 and four points from safety. A squad at it's absolute lowest ebb, to say the atmosphere was toxic doesn't begin to do it justice. Michael came in, saved us, signed Tyrese up to a new contract at a time he had Premier League interest and he has introduced young players like Souttar, Tymon and Taylor into the fold. The squad has a great togetherness, the average age is much improved and most of all there's a sense that the dressing room has a lot of good relationships and positive characters in it. I think the legacy of MON might be that he exorcised our demons and created a good foundation for someone else (Alex Neil hopefully) to come in and succeed. I always thought that the bounce after Jones left also had a lot to do with the players actually giving a fook as Jones wasn't around. They were probably sick of him shoving his religious nonsense down their throats. I know it really grated on me.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 29, 2022 11:08:07 GMT
I always thought that the bounce after Jones left also had a lot to do with the players actually giving a fook as Jones wasn't around. They were probably sick of him shoving his religious nonsense down their throats. I know it really grated on me. He mentioned it a couple of times when asked, not sure that's shoving it down anyones throat?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 29, 2022 11:09:37 GMT
MON had the ability to turn us from a joke club back into a football club. He didn't have the ability to turn us into a successful football club. He only got sacked about 8 weeks too late, unlike Hughes. Job done, I'd say. I hope he finds success elsewhere. I suspect that had Clarke, Tymon, Powell and Laurent not sustained long term injuries early season then MON would still be our manager. Equally, if he’d planned better and just done the sensible things and been more flexible he might have survived without them too.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 11:21:00 GMT
They were probably sick of him shoving his religious nonsense down their throats. I know it really grated on me. He mentioned it a couple of times when asked, not sure that's shoving it down anyones throat? What "god willing" was in just about every sentence he uttered. It's a bit like going to the pub and them allowing Jovo's to come around the place annoying you with their shit and not even buying a drink. If I want to hear religion I'll go to a religious building not a football ground.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 29, 2022 11:23:23 GMT
He mentioned it a couple of times when asked, not sure that's shoving it down anyones throat? What "god willing" was in just about every sentence he uttered. It's a bit like going to the pub and them allowing Jovo's to come around the place annoying you with their shit and not even buying a drink. If I want to hear religion I'll go to a religious building not a football ground. "God willing was in just about every sentence he uttered" No it wasn't.........
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 11:26:50 GMT
What "god willing" was in just about every sentence he uttered. It's a bit like going to the pub and them allowing Jovo's to come around the place annoying you with their shit and not even buying a drink. If I want to hear religion I'll go to a religious building not a football ground. "God willing was in just about every sentence he uttered" No it wasn't......... Maybe I'm just a bit OVER sensitive on the subject. I didn't like Ramadan banging his head on the pitch either and people tried to make out it was racist and islamophibic. It isn't I find people being overtly religious offensive espescially when I'm paying for the privilidge. EDIT; Added over in Bold caps as I realise it's not mainstream normal.
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Post by independent on Aug 30, 2022 2:47:20 GMT
Am I? Barnsley needed 49 points to stay up that season. Do you think we'd have managed that under Jones? No I don't all I'm saying it wasn't the miracle escape so many proclaim. Had lots of time to get house in order and sort Jones shit. Was widely accepted on here that we had the players. Jones just didn't play them in the right positions due to his tactical weirdness. Yes O'Neill did well but it's not like we were 1/100 on to get relegated . "Was widely accepted on here that we had the players". That must be the biggest load of bullshit ever posted on this site. Go back and read at least 50 posts at the time saying the opposite. If you can find even one supporting what you are saying I will be AMAZED.
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 30, 2022 14:01:54 GMT
For me his legacy is that he did all the dirty work needed at the club and has left very promising things for the future. Oh, and very probably he was one of the most unlucky managers we ever had with serious injuries to key players. The only other time I can think worse than his luck is when we suffered 4 broken legs at the end of that season when we just had to beat, I think it was Sheff Utd, to win the old first division.
OS.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 22, 2023 8:44:59 GMT
theathletic.com/4331098/2023/03/22/michael-oneill-northern-ireland-return/“That was a big blow (losing Tyrese Campbell to injury) because those two looked like they had a partnership developing,” O’Neill says. “We still had Joe Allen out (the Wales midfielder missed nine months until the December with an Achilles injury), but we had balance and I thought the team was going in the right direction — we were getting a good version of Nick Powell.” “I was a little bit numb, I suppose (when I was sacked),” he says. John Coates, the chairman and son of Stoke’s benefactor Peter, delivered the news. Neil arrived from Sunderland a week later. “It was difficult because I’d never had it before,” O’Neill says. “I went to see John. He’s a really good guy and I think he found it hard to do. As club owner, he felt it was the right thing to do. We’ll never agree on that and we’re fine with that. “I felt a bit empty because I genuinely wanted the club to do well. I made a lot of tough longer-term decisions around players and staff and I had to correct a lot of things to help the club move forward. I did it always in the best interests of the club — I was totally invested in it. “I had, and have, a real affinity with the club. Maybe supporters thought I didn’t because I don’t jump around the technical area. They think that’s a lack of passion — a lack of passion is when you’re driving away (from the training ground) at one in the afternoon to play golf. I never did that once. “We did the work — all our staff. We just couldn’t get to the point where we could jump the club forward. There were moments when I thought we had a decent team but it was a bit Snakes & Ladders. That’s how it felt. “I think John would say it was a difficult situation I undertook and we did a good job. I felt for the owners as well because they were trying to do the right thing. The club came down from the Premier League and they spent heavily in the first two windows of the Championship trying to get back up. “Unfortunately it didn’t work and then you have to correct that and you’re in a difficult position. Go back up at the first attempt and it’s done — £100million ($122.3m). That washes away all your problems. That’s why the Championship is the league it is. Everyone’s chasing the pot of gold and they think they’re closer than they are.” O’Neill’s entire time at Stoke has to be seen within the frame of financial fair play and the restrictions that meant they could not spend more than a fraction of their owners’ vast fortune. In six transfer windows, O’Neill spent money on only six players, the most being around £2million on Ben Wilmot from Watford. Wilmot replaced Nathan Collins, who had been sold to then-Premier League Burnley for an initial £12million as one of more than 40 senior players who left in the restructuring O’Neill was charged with overseeing – not that he wanted Collins, sold on to Wolves last summer for just over £20million after Burnley’s relegation, to be sold as part of that. It is all summarised in a phrase O’Neill uses about 2020-21, his first full season at Stoke: “I was dismantling a squad while at the same time trying to build a team.” O’Neill inherited a “fractured” dressing room when he succeeded Nathan Jones, who had replaced Gary Rowett, who had replaced Paul Lambert in a swift turnover of managers following relegation under the latter. Parachute payments from the Premier League had been spent. “Those players cost a lot and were highly paid, plus there were loan players,” O’Neill says. “I felt I had control from fairly on, but I still had players coming to my door saying they wanted to leave. They were on contracts reduced due to relegation from the Premier League. “Every manager will tell you the same: high earners who aren’t in the team are generally a problem and you’re conscious of them. “All the time you’re trying to protect the culture in your dressing room and build a team that can get off the bottom and compete. But you’re building with free agents and loans and it can feel very temporary. That’s why you get inconsistency. “With hindsight, I probably wouldn’t have turned over as many players in the January windows, I’d have stuck with players and just accepted I’d to carry a player on his current contract for the next six months.” The conversation with O’Neill continually refers back to the economics at Stoke. It was not something he or the club could get away from. He talks of “legacy contracts” and the market reality of being unable to sell those who had been bought for large sums. Gradually he whittled down the squad and its cost and gave debuts to players from the academy. But there were occasions when he thought to himself: ‘Are we actually going anywhere here?’ Should Stoke be released from FFP this summer and be allowed to spend freely again – as has been mooted – O’Neill will wear another uncertain smile. “I was disappointed how we finished last season,” O’Neill says. “We drew games we should have won. It was a big dent. When you’re over 60 points, you’re probably four wins away from the play-offs and you can look at four games (out of the 46)… “We got ourselves in a bit of a rut, February through March. The staff knew they were good and you’re constantly trying to get the formula to win. We came out of it and started looking a team again, but we were too far away. And I was tired.” The last comment concerns O’Neill’s hip replacement, following a 20-year senior playing career including over 400 appearances, which came at an early age last April. “I thought I had a sore back but when I went to see the surgeon he told me I needed a hip replacement. I didn’t think I did but I wasn’t sleeping well — that’s the worst thing about your hip, you feel it at night. I was more tired than I realised. I went to Middlesbrough away on crutches.” There is no sense of grievance in O’Neill’s tone, it is more frustration and disappointment. Of his two full Championship seasons, he says: “If you look, 92 games, we were in the top half of the table for around 75 per cent of them, in the top eight for a proportion of that. You’re two or three wins from the play-offs. I don’t think we were as far away as it looks; the finishing positions distort where we were. I understand fans thought we should be in a better place.” There is, though, one general point O’Neill makes regarding managerial churn and the Championship: “There’s an impatience there. That’s why I look at Brentford — they were prepared to miss out on promotion via the play-offs (in 2019-20) and go again. “Nearly every other club would have changed manager, but Brentford didn’t, they believed in Thomas Frank. I think that’s part of the reason they’ve stayed in the Premier League.” That churn of managers is why, post-Stoke, O’Neill declined some club opportunities. Instead, he has signed a five-and-a-half-year deal to return to the Irish Football Association. They are, he says, getting a better manager and coach than the one they hired that first time in late 2011, a more reflective man as well as manager. Dad Des, he hopes, would approve. O’Neill had some tough managers of his own as a player, not least the ferocious Jim McLean at Dundee United — a man who made fellow Scot Alex Ferguson sound meek. “I’ve done the international job for eight years and then been in club football for three,” O’Neill says. “And it’s like anything, if another club took me now on the back of the years at Stoke, they’d have a much better manager than they would have had in 2016 or 2018. “You can’t not improve — you’d need to be an idiot not to learn. “I think I’m more tolerant, maybe a little bit less emotional and more reflective in my decision-making and how I deal with players, a bit softer than I was. Not that I was ever Jim McLean, but when I needed to be I was pretty authoritative. I still am. I probably bend a little bit more now than I would have. “I’m different, much wiser.”
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Post by werrington on Mar 22, 2023 8:51:46 GMT
In short ….he’d lost the plot
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 9:44:16 GMT
Fair play to him, can't complain about any of that really. He's probably right in most of those things, but April/May was his time to leave. He should be remembered fondly as a manager who steadied an incredibly fucked up ship, and to play as well as we did, despite consistency issues, with the restrictions we had is an achievement in itself. Wish him all the best.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Mar 22, 2023 9:53:29 GMT
I, personally, think it all just ground him down and the operation was the final straw. Probably physically and mentally exhausted, remember Jones at the end looked very ill!
He did a good job is very difficult circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 9:53:51 GMT
He became absolutely obsessed with 532 , which was sad .
AN said a few weeks ago , when I got here, people told me the squad was set up for 532 , we are a 532 club .
But at least he binned the idea, when the results weren't there .
AN is the sort of coach who might play 532 for one game as a tactic for one specific match, but at least he's not wedded to it for ever , regardless of results.
It's a shame , because MoN did a good job of sorting out the epic mess NJ left behind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 10:19:15 GMT
He became absolutely obsessed with 532 , which was sad . AN said a few weeks ago , when I got here, people told me the squad was set up for 532 , we are a 532 club . But at least he binned the idea, when the results weren't there . AN is the sort of coach who might play 532 for one game as a tactic for one specific match, but at least he's not wedded to it for ever , regardless of results. It's a shame , because MoN did a good job of sorting out the epic mess NJ left behind. I think with the restrictions he had he probably had the choice to try to be wedded to one system and do it really well, or try to do a few systems but not excel so much in any. Maybe he chose the wrong one, but that's a tough one to go for, especially given the previous 352 success for the first half of 2021/22 where we were only really derailed by Souttar's (and others') injury. I don't think our start to the season warranted a sacking, and I certainly don't think the 352 was the reason we were shit.
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Post by chigstoke on Mar 22, 2023 10:43:23 GMT
I, personally, think it all just ground him down and the operation was the final straw. Probably physically and mentally exhausted, remember Jones at the end looked very ill! He did a good job is very difficult circumstances. Least if Alex Neil starts feeling ground down about the job he’s got no hair to go grey or lose.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 22, 2023 10:47:51 GMT
He became absolutely obsessed with 532 , which was sad . AN said a few weeks ago , when I got here, people told me the squad was set up for 532 , we are a 532 club . But at least he binned the idea, when the results weren't there . AN is the sort of coach who might play 532 for one game as a tactic for one specific match, but at least he's not wedded to it for ever , regardless of results. It's a shame , because MoN did a good job of sorting out the epic mess NJ left behind. I think with the restrictions he had he probably had the choice to try to be wedded to one system and do it really well, or try to do a few systems but not excel so much in any. Maybe he chose the wrong one, but that's a tough one to go for, especially given the previous 352 success for the first half of 2021/22 where we were only really derailed by Souttar's (and others') injury. I don't think our start to the season warranted a sacking, and I certainly don't think the 352 was the reason we were shit. The reason we were shit is that he totally failed to recruit to the system he wanted to play. I think the 352 success of the first half of 21/22 is overstated personally, our best performance of the period was the West Brom game where we played a balanced midfield with 4-2-3-1 and while we were getting good results I thought there was a slightly Brian Little-esque sense of being unconvincing in some of those games. Neil is the first manager we've had for about eight years who actually seems to know what he wants and looks to recruit to it.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 22, 2023 10:51:19 GMT
I think with the restrictions he had he probably had the choice to try to be wedded to one system and do it really well, or try to do a few systems but not excel so much in any. Maybe he chose the wrong one, but that's a tough one to go for, especially given the previous 352 success for the first half of 2021/22 where we were only really derailed by Souttar's (and others') injury. I don't think our start to the season warranted a sacking, and I certainly don't think the 352 was the reason we were shit. The reason we were shit is that he totally failed to recruit to the system he wanted to play. I think the 352 success of the first half of 21/22 is overstated personally, our best performance of the period was the West Brom game where we played a balanced midfield with 4-2-3-1 and while we were getting good results I thought there was a slightly Brian Little-esque sense of being unconvincing in some of those games. Neil is the first manager we've had for about eight years who actually seems to know what he wants and looks to recruit to it. I thought that we were pretty excellent in the Nottm Forest home game to be honest. We took that game to them for large periods and they were never really in it from start to finish.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 22, 2023 10:55:00 GMT
The reason we were shit is that he totally failed to recruit to the system he wanted to play. I think the 352 success of the first half of 21/22 is overstated personally, our best performance of the period was the West Brom game where we played a balanced midfield with 4-2-3-1 and while we were getting good results I thought there was a slightly Brian Little-esque sense of being unconvincing in some of those games. Neil is the first manager we've had for about eight years who actually seems to know what he wants and looks to recruit to it. I thought that we were pretty excellent in the Nottm Forest home game to be honest. We took that game to them for large periods and they were never really in it from start to finish. Was a deserved win but think the West Brom game was a complete performance against a better performing side at that time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 10:55:39 GMT
I think with the restrictions he had he probably had the choice to try to be wedded to one system and do it really well, or try to do a few systems but not excel so much in any. Maybe he chose the wrong one, but that's a tough one to go for, especially given the previous 352 success for the first half of 2021/22 where we were only really derailed by Souttar's (and others') injury. I don't think our start to the season warranted a sacking, and I certainly don't think the 352 was the reason we were shit. The reason we were shit is that he totally failed to recruit to the system he wanted to play. I think the 352 success of the first half of 21/22 is overstated personally, our best performance of the period was the West Brom game where we played a balanced midfield with 4-2-3-1 and while we were getting good results I thought there was a slightly Brian Little-esque sense of being unconvincing in some of those games. Neil is the first manager we've had for about eight years who actually seems to know what he wants and looks to recruit to it. As above I think there were plenty of games where it looked really good. Some of them didn't get the results they deserved but still. MON for me was recruiting for the squad he wanted. The only confusion is maybe the left centre back, but we know he tried for that and couldn't get anyone over the line. Of the signings he made this summer only really Gayle and Flint were completely crap, and even they were signings that were at least understandable. Flint was temporary cover for Souttar and Gayle was brought in with the thought that he'd finish some of the chances we'd been creating but missing in the previous season.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 22, 2023 11:03:09 GMT
I thought that we were pretty excellent in the Nottm Forest home game to be honest. We took that game to them for large periods and they were never really in it from start to finish. Was a deserved win but think the West Brom game was a complete performance against a better performing side at that time. Perhaps but it’s an example of us not being “Brian Little-esque”. There were a lot of those examples up until Powell got injured. The whole system was set up to depend on him. At present, the whole system is set up to depend on Pearson. Without him, it will likely fall to pieces as well. MON’s recruitment in the Summer of this year was very poor. I’m not sure why he was allowed to do it (why was he even still here?!) but he generally got an expected portion of right and wrongs I thought. His biggest failing was not getting a target man for the squad when Fletcher broke down further and not getting a coach that could keep them fit.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 22, 2023 11:06:59 GMT
The reason we were shit is that he totally failed to recruit to the system he wanted to play. I think the 352 success of the first half of 21/22 is overstated personally, our best performance of the period was the West Brom game where we played a balanced midfield with 4-2-3-1 and while we were getting good results I thought there was a slightly Brian Little-esque sense of being unconvincing in some of those games. Neil is the first manager we've had for about eight years who actually seems to know what he wants and looks to recruit to it. As above I think there were plenty of games where it looked really good. Some of them didn't get the results they deserved but still. MON for me was recruiting for the squad he wanted. The only confusion is maybe the left centre back, but we know he tried for that and couldn't get anyone over the line. Of the signings he made this summer only really Gayle and Flint were completely crap, and even they were signings that were at least understandable. Flint was temporary cover for Souttar and Gayle was brought in with the thought that he'd finish some of the chances we'd been creating but missing in the previous season. Can't agree with that. He insisted he wanted to play a back three with wing backs but he failed to address longstanding issues or recruit to a system that would make that work. Neglected to sign a goalkeeper RWB - he thought Clarke, a very inexperienced loanee, and Sparrow, a young midfielder, would suffice in what is an absolutely key area to the system. When it became clear they wouldn't he panicked and brought in Fosu, also not a good fit for that system. LWB - his solution to provide competition for Tymon was McCarron, a lad who couldn't get a game for the Vale. CB - Flint was totally unsuited to playing in a back three, deathly slow and useless on the ball Midfield - stubbornly refused to sign a proper DM and ensured our midfield was an unbalanced mess for most of his time here. Put a lot of pressure on Smallbone, another inexperienced young player, to shoulder the bulk of our creativity. Forward - Gayle a dreadful signing who was too similar to what we already had. Delap understandable but again we expected him to shoulder a lot of the burden despite a lack of senior experience. Instead of signing a target man to help things stick in the final third and knit our attacking play together he insisted on signing poachers and trying to reverse-engineer those qualities into them. It was a mess, he should've gone in May.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 22, 2023 11:08:40 GMT
Was a deserved win but think the West Brom game was a complete performance against a better performing side at that time. Perhaps but it’s an example of us not being “Brian Little-esque”. There were a lot of those examples up until Powell got injured. The whole system was set up to depend on him. At present, the whole system is set up to depend on Pearson. Without him, it will likely fall to pieces as well. MON’s recruitment in the Summer of this year was very poor. I’m not sure why he was allowed to do it (why was he even still here?!) but he generally got an expected portion of right and wrongs I thought. His biggest failing was not getting a target man for the squad when Fletcher broke down further and not getting a coach that could keep them fit. Not every game under Brian Little was 'Brian Little-esque' either. That spell where he insisted on playing Sawyers in a midfield two was consistently hairy in terms of performances IMO. We looked wishy washy and vulnerable in midfield.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 11:13:32 GMT
As above I think there were plenty of games where it looked really good. Some of them didn't get the results they deserved but still. MON for me was recruiting for the squad he wanted. The only confusion is maybe the left centre back, but we know he tried for that and couldn't get anyone over the line. Of the signings he made this summer only really Gayle and Flint were completely crap, and even they were signings that were at least understandable. Flint was temporary cover for Souttar and Gayle was brought in with the thought that he'd finish some of the chances we'd been creating but missing in the previous season. Can't agree with that. He insisted he wanted to play a back three with wing backs but he failed to address longstanding issues or recruit to a system that would make that work. Neglected to sign a goalkeeper RWB - he thought Clarke, a very inexperienced loanee, and Sparrow, a young midfielder, would suffice in what is an absolutely key area to the system. When it became clear they wouldn't he panicked and brought in Fosu, also not a good fit for that system. LWB - his solution to provide competition for Tymon was McCarron, a lad who couldn't get a game for the Vale. CB - Flint was totally unsuited to playing in a back three, deathly slow and useless on the ball Midfield - stubbornly refused to sign a proper DM and ensured our midfield was an unbalanced mess for most of his time here. Put a lot of pressure on Smallbone, another inexperienced young player, to shoulder the bulk of our creativity. Forward - Gayle a dreadful signing who was too similar to what we already had. Delap understandable but again we expected him to shoulder a lot of the burden despite a lack of senior experience. Instead of signing a target man to help things stick in the final third and knit our attacking play together he insisted on signing poachers and trying to reverse-engineer those qualities into them. It was a mess, he should've gone in May. The keeper one he explained in interviews, we had very little money and he decided Bursik and Bonham were less important to replace than the other holes in the squad. Clarke was pretty good for me, Fosu was a panic after we got so many injuries at wing back, but did okay there in my opinion. McCarron yeah was a weird one. Think he had the idea that Fosu could do both left and right/Fox could if desperate move there. Flint was only ever there as cover for Souttar, we were shopping in a very shallow pool of players for free who don't mind not playing. I think the refusal to sign a DM was mitigated by the 352 system. You don't necessarily need a Ben Pearson when you play like that. The plan was a Laurent-Baker-Smallbone midfield of energy and dynamism. Powell and Smallbone would've also been the two shouldering that burden, Powell's injury was another slice of bad luck. I can't agree about Gayle, he's nothing like any of our strikers at all. I think the 4 of Tyrese/Brown/Delap/Gayle was plenty fine on paper at that time. None of us thought it would be an issue as I remember. But I agree, he should've gone in may.
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 22, 2023 11:17:50 GMT
I thought our best under O'Neill was when we used 3-5-2 as a spoiler tactic in difficult games, which got us a lot of points and cup scalps. We were then flexible enough to play 4-3-3 in other games and do well. Relying exclusively on 3-5-2 was not nearly as effective.
I find it hard to read the article and not feel sympathetic, honestly. He did a lot of unpleasant spade work for us and seems a decent man.
I wonder what might have been if we hadn't blown the 2-0 lead at home to Cardiff that - if I remember rightly - would have put us into the automatic places? That's the one with the Vokes missed penalty, not the 3-0 last season.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 22, 2023 11:22:41 GMT
As above I think there were plenty of games where it looked really good. Some of them didn't get the results they deserved but still. MON for me was recruiting for the squad he wanted. The only confusion is maybe the left centre back, but we know he tried for that and couldn't get anyone over the line. Of the signings he made this summer only really Gayle and Flint were completely crap, and even they were signings that were at least understandable. Flint was temporary cover for Souttar and Gayle was brought in with the thought that he'd finish some of the chances we'd been creating but missing in the previous season. Can't agree with that. He insisted he wanted to play a back three with wing backs but he failed to address longstanding issues or recruit to a system that would make that work. Neglected to sign a goalkeeper RWB - he thought Clarke, a very inexperienced loanee, and Sparrow, a young midfielder, would suffice in what is an absolutely key area to the system. When it became clear they wouldn't he panicked and brought in Fosu, also not a good fit for that system. LWB - his solution to provide competition for Tymon was McCarron, a lad who couldn't get a game for the Vale. CB - Flint was totally unsuited to playing in a back three, deathly slow and useless on the ball Midfield - stubbornly refused to sign a proper DM and ensured our midfield was an unbalanced mess for most of his time here. Put a lot of pressure on Smallbone, another inexperienced young player, to shoulder the bulk of our creativity. Forward - Gayle a dreadful signing who was too similar to what we already had. Delap understandable but again we expected him to shoulder a lot of the burden despite a lack of senior experience. Instead of signing a target man to help things stick in the final third and knit our attacking play together he insisted on signing poachers and trying to reverse-engineer those qualities into them. It was a mess, he should've gone in May. Sorry. I state in the message to you above that MONs summer recruitment was very poor and he should have gone. The ups and downs of recruitment I mentioned just was pre-Summer of this season. I stand by my point though. This system falls to pieces without Pearson. It’s built for him, a former AN player. It makes a lot of sense. Previously, we built one for Campbell, only for him to get injured. Then we built one for Powell, only for him to get injured.
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