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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 28, 2022 22:51:09 GMT
I've never bought into the ' he saved us from certain relegation ' 4 points off safety with 31 games left is hardly houdini stuff whatever shit show he was left. Undoubtedly he did well but wasn't a very high bar was it My view of his tenure is he still thought he was hosting Spain at Windsor Park rather than Reading or Rotherham. A very safe manager and I'm glad he's gone. To be pedantic we were 6 points from safety not 4. We had 8 measly points from a third of the seasonβ¦β¦.
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Post by PenkPonther on Aug 28, 2022 23:00:20 GMT
O'Neill will probably consider himself a bit unlucky, to be the first of our recent managers who didn't benefit from the full unfurling of Uncle Peter's transfer trouser truncheon!
And furthermore, if he hadn't had bad luck with injuries, he'd have had no luck at all.
I do believe that he always made decisions with the health and long-term future of the club at heart, and that the foundations for our future success are mostly now in place.
I just hope our next manager will be a bit more positive, and flexible in his thinking.
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Post by miltonstokienew on Aug 28, 2022 23:31:40 GMT
I liked the bloke , he's signed some good players for us and at the end of the day he's left us in a much healthier position from the shit show he inherited.
He was to stubborn with his formation though and it was time to give his hip a rest.
Good luck for the future Michael. Thanks for keeping us up
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Post by gawa on Aug 28, 2022 23:56:36 GMT
2020 was the pinnacle.
We got another 5 clean sheets after this before the year ended. 24 in total.
Everyone remembers the attacking displays but we were defensively solid too.
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Post by cvillestokie on Aug 29, 2022 0:40:18 GMT
Reduced the wage bill dramatically. Reduced the age of the squad. Did both while keeping us up and then achieving results similar to his predecessors.
Kept us in the division and has set us up well for the near future.
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Post by kustokie on Aug 29, 2022 1:11:27 GMT
He did a great job of getting rid of expensive players and reducing the wage bill, which is a testament to his business management skills, but he is not a a good coach or a good tactician. He should have been sacked at the end of last season and new manager brought it so he had the whole summer transfer window to build a team that could hit the ground running.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 29, 2022 2:08:56 GMT
I've never bought into the ' he saved us from certain relegation ' 4 points off safety with 31 games left is hardly houdini stuff whatever shit show he was left. Undoubtedly he did well but wasn't a very high bar was it My view of his tenure is he still thought he was hosting Spain at Windsor Park rather than Reading or Rotherham. A very safe manager and I'm glad he's gone. To be pedantic we were 6 points from safety not 4. We had 8 measly points from a third of the seasonβ¦β¦. He did well to get us out of it but it is a bit overplayed. That team and that squad should never have been close to bottom of the table.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 2:25:14 GMT
Cant agree A fraud would not have saved us in the season he did and his win percentage 38.5% is not the percentage of a fraud either better than Neil at Preston for example. It's too many games to be down to any kind of luck. I think he just was unable to organise things off the pitch and on it. Fraud maybe too strong a word but he wasnβt a good manager. Yes he did well saving us in his first season but since Campbells injury his brain must have gone to mush as he went ultra negative for me. Like I say I liked him as a person but not as a manager I think his best work was done behind the scenes. He lost his way on the pitch and thatβs why he lost his job, but I truly believe he left this club in a much better state than the one he inherited. Iβm so glad the board made the right call to get rid of him before it turned toxic because he truly did not deserve that.
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Post by santy on Aug 29, 2022 6:20:44 GMT
Would it be possible to claim he was never the same after his (hip) injury?
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Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 29, 2022 6:47:59 GMT
Left the club in a better place than he found it, comfortably keeping us up from the position we were in was some achievement. Did great work with the youth with the likes of Tymon, Souttar and convincing Tyrese to sign a new deal.
He should have pushed on but for me heβs consistently demonstrated that heβs not up to scratch tactically, his notion that you donβt need physicality in midfield at this level is very much misguided and if he gets another job at this level that is something he should reconsider.
He can consider himself unlucky in terms of injuries and the fact that he had to do so much firefighting on the FFP front, however, at the same time he was able to bring in good players for this level and the squad has been better than the recent positions weβve ended up in.
Ultimately I think heβs left a solid base for Neil to work with and my feeling is that weβll look a completely different side and can hopefully get in and around the play-offs.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 8:38:11 GMT
Left the club in a better place than he found it, comfortably keeping us up from the position we were in was some achievement. Did great work with the youth with the likes of Tymon, Souttar and convincing Tyrese to sign a new deal. He should have pushed on but for me heβs consistently demonstrated that heβs not up to scratch tactically, his notion that you donβt need physicality in midfield at this level is very much misguided and if he gets another job at this level that is something he should reconsider. He can consider himself unlucky in terms of injuries and the fact that he had to do so much firefighting on the FFP front, however, at the same time he was able to bring in good players for this level and the squad has been better than the recent positions weβve ended up in. Ultimately I think heβs left a solid base for Neil to work with and my feeling is that weβll look a completely different side and can hopefully get in and around the play-offs. βYou donβt need physicality in midfield in the championshipβ itβs got to be one of the most bizarre conclusions Iβve ever known a football manager come to.
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 29, 2022 9:31:11 GMT
I've never bought into the ' he saved us from certain relegation ' 4 points off safety with 31 games left is hardly houdini stuff whatever shit show he was left. Undoubtedly he did well but wasn't a very high bar was it My view of his tenure is he still thought he was hosting Spain at Windsor Park rather than Reading or Rotherham. A very safe manager and I'm glad he's gone. To be pedantic we were 6 points from safety not 4. We had 8 measly points from a third of the seasonβ¦β¦. I was going off a post above mine. Not the sort to Google it.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 29, 2022 9:38:20 GMT
Frankly he did all the stuff Γlex Neil clearly and understandably didnβt like the look of when he was first mooted for the job. It remains a mystery why MON having done all the dirty work couldnβt enjoy himself and produce a team playing better and more effective football.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 29, 2022 9:43:38 GMT
The loss of Tymon and Clarke at such an early stage of the season on top of the set back to Powellβs return to fitness must have been a kick in the gonads for MON.
Neil will have the luxury of those three returning in the coming weeks with Souttar later on
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Post by lostinafrenchbar on Aug 29, 2022 9:51:38 GMT
MON had the ability to turn us from a joke club back into a football club. He didn't have the ability to turn us into a successful football club. He only got sacked about 8 weeks too late, unlike Hughes. Job done, I'd say. I hope he finds success elsewhere.
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Post by Davef on Aug 29, 2022 9:53:35 GMT
To be pedantic we were 6 points from safety not 4. We had 8 measly points from a third of the seasonβ¦β¦. I was going off a post above mine. Not the sort to Google it. We had 8 points from 14 games. That's 0.57 points per game. Extrapolate that over the 32 games we had remaining and it's pretty obvious where we were heading. MON did a remarkable job in rescuing us from Jones's shitshow.
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Post by Championship Potter on Aug 29, 2022 10:00:40 GMT
2020 was the pinnacle. We got another 5 clean sheets after this before the year ended. 24 in total. Everyone remembers the attacking displays but we were defensively solid too. Shows how key Souttar was for us, as none of those goalkeepers were entirely convincing during that run. Heβll be a massive asset for us when heβs back fit.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 29, 2022 10:08:35 GMT
MON had the ability to turn us from a joke club back into a football club. He didn't have the ability to turn us into a successful football club. He only got sacked about 8 weeks too late, unlike Hughes. Job done, I'd say. I hope he finds success elsewhere. I suspect that had Clarke, Tymon, Powell and Laurent not sustained long term injuries early season then MON would still be our manager.
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 29, 2022 10:08:40 GMT
I was going off a post above mine. Not the sort to Google it. We had 8 points from 14 games. That's 0.57 points per game. Extrapolate that over the 32 games we had remaining and it's pretty obvious where we were heading. MON did a remarkable job in rescuing us from Jones's shitshow. So you're saying even with nut job Jones in charge we'd of only gained just over 20 odd points in the 32 games? Okay π
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:11:35 GMT
MON had the ability to turn us from a joke club back into a football club. He didn't have the ability to turn us into a successful football club. He only got sacked about 8 weeks too late, unlike Hughes. Job done, I'd say. I hope he finds success elsewhere. I suspect that had Clarke, Tymon, Powell and Laurent not sustained long term injuries early season then MON would still be our manager. Not so sure, he may have lasted longer but I think he was already doomed. He'd formed some very odd opinions about championship football.
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Post by Davef on Aug 29, 2022 10:12:44 GMT
We had 8 points from 14 games. That's 0.57 points per game. Extrapolate that over the 32 games we had remaining and it's pretty obvious where we were heading. MON did a remarkable job in rescuing us from Jones's shitshow. So you're saying even with nut job Jones in charge we'd of only gained just over 20 odd points in the 32 games? Okay π Am I? Barnsley needed 49 points to stay up that season. Do you think we'd have managed that under Jones?
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 29, 2022 10:15:50 GMT
So you're saying even with nut job Jones in charge we'd of only gained just over 20 odd points in the 32 games? Okay π Am I? Barnsley needed 49 points to stay up that season. Do you think we'd have managed that under Jones? No I don't all I'm saying it wasn't the miracle escape so many proclaim. Had lots of time to get house in order and sort Jones shit. Was widely accepted on here that we had the players. Jones just didn't play them in the right positions due to his tactical weirdness. Yes O'Neill did well but it's not like we were 1/100 on to get relegated .
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:16:11 GMT
We had 8 points from 14 games. That's 0.57 points per game. Extrapolate that over the 32 games we had remaining and it's pretty obvious where we were heading. MON did a remarkable job in rescuing us from Jones's shitshow. So you're saying even with nut job Jones in charge we'd of only gained just over 20 odd points in the 32 games? Okay π Nobody can really say Jones' teams played relatively creative football producing very respectable xg that simply did not translate into results or even goals scored. The tide might have turned but I think it would have been extremely reckless to find out.
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Post by gawa on Aug 29, 2022 10:23:14 GMT
We had 8 points from 14 games. That's 0.57 points per game. Extrapolate that over the 32 games we had remaining and it's pretty obvious where we were heading. MON did a remarkable job in rescuing us from Jones's shitshow. So you're saying even with nut job Jones in charge we'd of only gained just over 20 odd points in the 32 games? Okay π Think he got 2 wins, 2 draws and 13 losses in his last 17 games in charge in the league. So that's probably over estimating, probably closer to 15 points.
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Post by gawa on Aug 29, 2022 10:24:15 GMT
So you're saying even with nut job Jones in charge we'd of only gained just over 20 odd points in the 32 games? Okay π Nobody can really say Jones' teams played relatively creative football producing very respectable xg that simply did not translate into results or even goals scored. The tide might have turned but I think it would have been extremely reckless to find out. He didn't even have a respectable xG, that is a myth as he referenced it in one or two games. He was consistently underperforming on xG and the results reflected what was expected.
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Post by thicknthin on Aug 29, 2022 10:30:07 GMT
Am I? Barnsley needed 49 points to stay up that season. Do you think we'd have managed that under Jones? No I don't all I'm saying it wasn't the miracle escape so many proclaim. Had lots of time to get house in order and sort Jones shit. Was widely accepted on here that we had the players. Jones just didn't play them in the right positions due to his tactical weirdness. Yes O'Neill did well but it's not like we were 1/100 on to get relegated . We had to produce promotion form just to stay up. He managed us brilliantly that season. The most disappointing thing is he could never repeat it for longer
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:32:45 GMT
Nobody can really say Jones' teams played relatively creative football producing very respectable xg that simply did not translate into results or even goals scored. The tide might have turned but I think it would have been extremely reckless to find out. He didn't even have a respectable xG, that is a myth as he referenced it in one or two games. He was consistently underperforming on xG and the results reflected what was expected. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7535330They look pretty healthy to me. EDIT: possibly interpreting the graphs wrong and that wide blue area 19/20 is in fact MON's. Therefore yes I am going off hearsay and taking Jones' statement that xg was high without ever seeing the stats.
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Post by gawa on Aug 29, 2022 10:38:20 GMT
He didn't even have a respectable xG, that is a myth as he referenced it in one or two games. He was consistently underperforming on xG and the results reflected what was expected. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/7535330They look pretty healthy to me. That is Michael O'Neills xG, not Nathan Jones. Here is Nathan's:
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:41:10 GMT
That is Michael O'Neills xG, not Nathan Jones. See the edit I was reading it as a full season and it tied in with what I'd heard Jones come out with.
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Post by gawa on Aug 29, 2022 10:42:22 GMT
That is Michael O'Neills xG, not Nathan Jones. See the edit I was reading it as a full season and it tied in with what I'd heard Jones come out with. If you check my edit out I added NJ's. It did pick up towards the end of his tenure to be fair, so you are correct. But for the majority of his stay it was in the yellow.
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