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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 17, 2022 21:54:30 GMT
Timing is a great thing isn't it? Lost count the amount of times I've logged on here after a defeat and seen posts bemoaning a lack of plan B, a lack of late goals depicting mental and physical weakness, a lack of an ability and nous to sniff out a result of any sort when playing really badly etc. One foot on the road to recovery on that front tonight. Don’t think too many are unhappy with the point. 2 shots on target in 2nd half at home while losing to a team who haven’t won a game and the abject performances thus far this season suggests that if he’s driving the bus along any road to recovery we are more likely to drive over a cliff Plus it’s intensely disingenuous to describe it as ‘having a Plan B’. A Plan B is what you have for the occasions your usually effective Plan A isn’t. Our Plan A is dogshit and he made it worse than that with his unfathomable midfield selection.
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Post by gawa on Aug 17, 2022 21:55:07 GMT
Just the ganja mate. You don't think this squad is playoff material? And I mean when we have a full squad available not just what was available tonight. Squad definitely playoff material Manager payoff material Well at least we agree on one thing. See I've even managed to get you to take a positive from all this now too!
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 17, 2022 21:55:52 GMT
Boro are currently 4/5 players light of where they want to be by the close of the window. They hadn’t won a game all season To position then as worldbeaters against plucky little Stoke is utterly ridiculous and borderline Daily Mail level propaganda I spend alot of time looking at stats and I'm a bit of a nerd that way. When I last checked Boro were one of the unluckiest teams so far this season plus they had some of the most difficult opening fixtures too. (Sheffield, WBA, Stoke and QPR). On expected goals they should have won all of those games too. I have no doubt they will be challenging in the top half for playoffs. Yeah Stoke definitely represent a hugely difficult fixture right now.. God help any team that have to play Millwall and the mighty Shrimpers!
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Post by doctortheopolis on Aug 17, 2022 21:56:30 GMT
There was a point in the second half where we were about to take a goal kick and from my seat in the South Stand, I looked at our team and couldn't work out what formation we were actually playing. Fosu was in their half, Thompson was level with our box and Smallbone was hugging the right touchline in our half. Fucking baffling, as was going with 2 midfielders after the first set of subs and 5 still at the back.
I know our full backs were makeshift ones but Boro gave us a lesson in how to play that system. Their LWB caused loads of problems, particularly in the second half.
We got out of jail big time - I'll take that as it's happened against us many a time but shit the bed, that was woeful.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 17, 2022 21:57:11 GMT
Squad definitely playoff material Manager payoff material Well at least we agree on one thing. See I've even managed to get you to take a positive from all this now too! I assume you’re referring to my second point 😉
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Post by stokie223 on Aug 17, 2022 22:00:34 GMT
I would say I'm 51/49 in favour of MON-in (I'm struggling to say that though I must admit) but that second half in particular was inexcusable. Boro absolutely battered us, we had ZERO midfield and the defence was a shambles too. We've got some fantastic forward players getting no service whatsoever, and teams just walk through our midfield. That was a complete disgrace. Out of interest, why would you keep him? He’s showing nothing to keep his job. If I'm being honest, it's *probably* more to do with his off-field achievements. He built a lot of credit with me personally because I think the mess he inherited from his predecessors had us on a one way road to certain relegation. In that regard I think he's done really well in difficult circumstances. The club was/is being run abhorrently - we gave Rowett the keys to the kingdom and he signed a higgledy-piggledy mess of average Championship plodders for massive money, on massive wages that we've really struggled to shift. Similar with Jones (Sam Vokes £10m WTFFFF). We took a massive gamble, and now we reap what we sow. In that respect, based on what I've read (and appears to be fairly common knowledge) about our financial situation then I have probably overlooked a lot more than I should have with regards to what happens on the pitch. I think I can see what he's doing, I much prefer our players now than when he came in & there have just been the occasional glimpses of football that has excited me for the first time since we got relegated; admittedly not many of those have been recent. I REALLY want it to work, but I must admit I am coming around to the idea that it likely won't. He gets until Christmas at least for me, unless we were in complete free fall. Despite still SLIGHTLY edging towards in, tonight was absolutely not acceptable. It was a disgrace of a performance and the scoreline flattered us. Blushes spared by DWP.
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Post by gawa on Aug 17, 2022 22:00:35 GMT
I spend alot of time looking at stats and I'm a bit of a nerd that way. When I last checked Boro were one of the unluckiest teams so far this season plus they had some of the most difficult opening fixtures too. (Sheffield, WBA, Stoke and QPR). On expected goals they should have won all of those games too. I have no doubt they will be challenging in the top half for playoffs. Yeah Stoke definitely represent a hugely difficult fixture right now.. God help any team that have to play Millwall and the mighty Shrimpers! It was based of this article here - www.theleaguepaper.com/latest-news/football-league-championship/383612/championship-fixtures-2022-23-promotion-hopefuls-handed-tough-starts/Aside from Watford I think they've had some of the most difficult opening fixtures.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 17, 2022 22:04:12 GMT
There was a point in the second half where we were about to take a goal kick and from my seat in the South Stand, I looked at our team and couldn't work out what formation we were actually playing. Fosu was in their half, Thompson was level with our box and Smallbone was hugging the right touchline in our half. Fucking baffling, as was going with 2 midfielders after the first set of subs and 5 still at the back. I know our full backs were makeshift ones but Boro gave us a lesson in how to play that system. Their LWB caused loads of problems, particularly in the second half. We got out of jail big time - I'll take that as it's happened against us many a time but shit the bed, that was woeful. We were playing 7-3 at one point. That was fun.
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Post by jontimmis on Aug 17, 2022 22:05:09 GMT
Just got back. Wow. Where do you start, the last caller on radio stoke. Sorry mate get your coat and as he said lots of people would be punching the radio listening to that, never mind watching it.
I know he had injuries tonight, but you have to adapt with the players you’ve got, playing that back 3 (sloths) and exposing them to the pace of watmore is just real basics. Again, we’ve conceded similar goals to fleetwood, Bristol rovers pre season, down the side of the outside of the centre halves (no pace) static defending while their striker is on the move attacking the ball and our players not anticipating it. The 5-3-2 exposes it, you have to have agile and quick players to cover the ground on the outside and inside we’ve got a 39/40 year old who did ok, but Taylor is so so so slow, not just out of possession but in it.
If we are trying to play like man United from the back then get ready for as long as a season as them, because we looked clueless.
The midfield doesn’t have the legs and combinations, smallbone doesn’t want to run he wants to be a ten linking players and Gayle made 3/4 runs in the first ten trying to turn their defence and because we are so slow in our possession and keep looking backwards he becomes redundant and frustrated.
I think the highlight for me was pre game in the warm up and we were doing triangle passing and moving linking play, 5-10 yards so I’d love to know why that isn’t translated in the game when most players are a min 30 yards away from each other.
This whole system is built around one player “Tymon” I’ve decided he does need to go, you cannot keep exposing players to this and needs to adapt, we got out run in midfield tonight and it exposed the other frailties at the back, I do think 4-5-1 would have suited us better tonight and link the players with a bit more possession.
Bloody hell Michael don’t do what Rowett did, why are the fans booing?? Are you serious? Did you watch any of that drivel tonight…. Wow
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 17, 2022 22:06:03 GMT
Including the Stoke fixture as difficult belies the evidence of our performances over the beginning of this season, the summer just gone and the 2nd half of last season. My comment was aimed at our place on the list.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 17, 2022 22:13:52 GMT
Honestly one of the worst performances I can remember us putting in, ever. Just fucking wank. And he’s blaming injuries and having to play young lads already. It’s 2 weeks into the season!!!
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Post by Ron on Aug 17, 2022 22:17:17 GMT
I’ve never seen such a disjointed mess in my life.
Play fox. He’s not great- we all Know that- but Thompson was hung out to dry.
Play a back 4 - pick a formation and set up to fit the players available. That way poor Fosu- who was positonally a disaster- woukdnt have to start either after a day “ in the building”.
Wilmot- another hung out to dry out of position. At lcb he’s always stuffling as soon as he’s tuning to defend a diagonal on his non natural side. Playing into their hands.
Jagielka- makes us defend so deep we were practically on our 6 yard line for 30 mins.
Midfield- why the fuck sign Kilkenny- who sat deep in a promoted side last season-and pick Clucas?!! Against that midfield- we needed to be solid. Thompson Kilkenny and baker- as the most advanced-Shoukd have been picked. Remember Thompson was class v wba - and a certain Alex mowatt- last season when we beat them.
Smallbone was so bad he should’ve been hooked at half time. Was frightened to death. Couldn’t wait to move the ball as soon as was near him- was scared of getting hurt.
Clucas- a bit of fire in his belly but why oh why do we persist .
The forward 2 get some credit - their hard work for the goal. Gayle was constantly looking to get in behind- as was Brown- and no ducker had the brains or guile to find them- hence why baker needed to be forward.
The scattergun subs where no one looked like they knew where they were playing. Got lucky with One of them.
A Very lucky point. Totally undeserved.
Just a total clusterfuck.
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Post by jontimmis on Aug 17, 2022 22:21:49 GMT
I’ve never seen such a disjointed mess in my life. Play fox. He’s not great- we all Know that- but Thompson was hung out to dry. Play a back 4 - pick a formation and set up to fit the players available. That way poor Fosu- who was positonally a disaster- woukdnt have to start either after a day “ in the building”. Wilmot- another hung out to dry out of position. At lcb he’s always stuffling as soon as he’s tuning to defend a diagonal on his non natural side. Playing into their hands. Jagielka- makes us defend so deep we were practically on our 6 yard line for 30 mins. Midfield- why the fuck sign Kilkenny- who sat deep in a promoted side last season-and pick Clucas?!! Against that midfield- we needed to be solid. Thompson Kilkenny and baker- as the most advanced-Shoukd have been picked. Remember Thompson was class v wba - and a certain Alex mowatt- last season when we beat them. Smallbone was so bad he should’ve been hooked at half time. Was frightened to death. Couldn’t wait to move the ball as soon as was near him- was scared of getting hurt. Clucas- a bit of fire in his belly but why oh why do we persist . The forward 2 get some credit - their hard work for the goal. Gayle was constantly looking to get in behind- as was Brown- and no ducker had the brains or guile to find them- hence why baker needed to be forward. The scattergun subs where no one looked like they knew where they were playing. Got lucky with One of them. A Very lucky point. Totally undeserved. Just a total clusterfuck. Agree with what you’ve said. We can’t all be wrong….
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Post by swampySCFC on Aug 17, 2022 22:23:07 GMT
Football is so complicated for Stoke at the moment, I mean what the fuck is going on. early days I know but just about the shittest pre season followed by an open top bus tour after a blackpool win. Needs a big clearout starting with the boss
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Post by jontimmis on Aug 17, 2022 22:23:59 GMT
You can only imagine what the new CFO is thinking…. Why did I join this club again.
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Post by musik on Aug 17, 2022 22:28:02 GMT
That point though probably buys him another 20 games. And definitely the playoff chance gone. Problem is, it will be in five games time if this continues.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Aug 17, 2022 22:30:46 GMT
I think the highlight for me was pre game in the warm up and we were doing triangle passing and moving linking play, 5-10 yards so I’d love to know why that isn’t translated in the game when most players are a min 30 yards away from each other. I quite enjoyed watching that part of the warm up and told my lad it’ll look sod all like that in the game.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 17, 2022 22:31:29 GMT
We could have been one down after 8 seconds via a lofted ball over the top. It was so bad.
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Post by kustokie on Aug 17, 2022 22:32:41 GMT
Football is so complicated for Stoke at the moment, I mean what the fuck is going on. early days I know but just about the shittest pre season followed by an open top bus tour after a blackpool win. Needs a big clearout starting with the boss The problem is we just changed the manager and had a clear out. Unfortunately what’s left is a shambles. I don’t see an easy or obvious way out of this. I think we have to just sit this out and hope we don’t get relegated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 22:34:35 GMT
How did we get a draw? Needs to go right now. Simply shocking. Crowd says it all Delap or new manager. ? New manager every day of the week I agree but should have been 2-0 oddly rather than 1-1but even so could have seen it ending in a draw even then Wilder is Wilder. Packs the midfield , presses and a game we can't play against. About time we were dominated and got a result though as so often the other way .
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 17, 2022 22:36:24 GMT
Just the ganja mate. You don't think this squad is playoff material? And I mean when we have a full squad available not just what was available tonight. Squad definitely playoff material Manager payoff material
Nicely done TCM.
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Post by swampySCFC on Aug 17, 2022 22:37:39 GMT
Football is so complicated for Stoke at the moment, I mean what the fuck is going on. early days I know but just about the shittest pre season followed by an open top bus tour after a blackpool win. Needs a big clearout starting with the boss The problem is we just changed the manager and had a clear out. Unfortunately what’s left is a shambles. I don’t see an easy or obvious way out of this. I think we have to just sit this out and hope we don’t get relegated. Certainly looks that way
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 17, 2022 22:39:59 GMT
How did we get a draw? Needs to go right now. Simply shocking. Crowd says it all Delap or new manager. ? New manager every day of the week I agree but should have been 2-0 oddly rather than 1-1but even so could have seen it ending in a draw even then Wilder is Wilder. Packs the midfield , presses and a game we can't play against. About time we were dominated and got a result though as so often the other way . Not being able to play against a pressing style of team is absolutely shocking and shows O'Neill up for his lack of adaptability. Feeling we should be deserving of a win against the run of play is just desperate. This squad needs managing more effectively.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 22:44:13 GMT
I agree but should have been 2-0 oddly rather than 1-1but even so could have seen it ending in a draw even then Wilder is Wilder. Packs the midfield , presses and a game we can't play against. About time we were dominated and got a result though as so often the other way . Not being able to play against a pressing style of team is absolutely shocking and shows O'Neill up for his lack of adaptability. Feeling we should be deserving of a win against the run of play is just desperate. This squad needs managing more effectively. The adaptability actually got us a point ...most are quick to point out when subs don't work, we created our only 2 chances late on after the subs second half .
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Post by AlanHansen on Aug 17, 2022 22:57:38 GMT
There was a point in the second half where we were about to take a goal kick and from my seat in the South Stand, I looked at our team and couldn't work out what formation we were actually playing. Fosu was in their half, Thompson was level with our box and Smallbone was hugging the right touchline in our half. Fucking baffling, as was going with 2 midfielders after the first set of subs and 5 still at the back. I know our full backs were makeshift ones but Boro gave us a lesson in how to play that system. Their LWB caused loads of problems, particularly in the second half. We got out of jail big time - I'll take that as it's happened against us many a time but shit the bed, that was woeful. Numerous times in the 2nd half Fosu seemed to have pushed up to right wing and Smallbone was playing RWB, leaving us even more exposed in the middle. Baffling.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 17, 2022 23:03:36 GMT
Not being able to play against a pressing style of team is absolutely shocking and shows O'Neill up for his lack of adaptability. Feeling we should be deserving of a win against the run of play is just desperate. This squad needs managing more effectively. The adaptability actually got us a point ...most are quick to point out when subs don't work, we created our only 2 chances late on after the subs second half . Those subs leading to a jammy goal were an example of the luck you felt we are lacking. The situation had become desperate through tactical mismanagement as far as I am concerned.
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Post by callas12 on Aug 17, 2022 23:26:51 GMT
I bet Wilder is fucking fuming and rightly so, they played us off the park He will be fuming but I generally don't have any sympathy for teams who should finish off a game that they have dominated. I think he will be fuming with his players who wasted their many chances to put the game out of sight. To be fair they should of scored after tearing straight through our defence from the kick off! The worry signs were there from the first minute for me tonight. We should be thankful Chuba Akpom was sidelined this eve, think he'd of put a few of their wasteful chances away tonight..
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Aug 18, 2022 0:28:40 GMT
And i have to give credit to the boro side who if they keep that up will walk ths devision Admittedly they looked a decent side, but no doubt we made them look better than what they probably are.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2022 0:32:10 GMT
And i have to give credit to the boro side who if they keep that up will walk ths devision The side who haven't won yet ? Be a long walk
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Aug 18, 2022 6:01:02 GMT
Just the ganja mate. You don't think this squad is playoff material? And I mean when we have a full squad available not just what was available tonight. Going by the last year or two. Nowhere near. Put this fraud into the mix then we are nowhere near Boro. They actually have a bit of steel, press well, have pace and they murdered us with an absolute abomination of a keeper in goal to boot.
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