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Post by gawa on Aug 11, 2022 20:03:46 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael.
Since then:
19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss
20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss
20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss
21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss
21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss
So I make that:
PL - 3 wins, 4 losses
Championship - 1 loss
League One - 5 wins 1 draw
League Two - 1 win
9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition)
Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was:
Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20)
Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19)
Mark Hughes - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18)
Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18)
Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 11, 2022 20:45:28 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Eddie Niedzwiecki - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. The cup defeat to Coventry was Hughes last game before he was dismissed. Eddie Niedzwiecki took charge for one games vs Man Utd before Lambert was appointed. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 11, 2022 20:47:35 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Eddie Niedzwiecki - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. The cup defeat to Coventry was Hughes last game before he was dismissed. Eddie Niedzwiecki took charge for one games vs Man Utd before Lambert was appointed. Sorry my husband didn't work for Stoke then so I didn't know that. I stand corrected though |
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Post by Gods on Aug 11, 2022 21:17:44 GMT
I haven't ever looked at it as a MON thing.
I'm just endlessly disappointed at our abject failure to make an impact in either cup competition for the thick end of 50 years.
The Pulis FA Cup final and the Hughes League Cup semi-final aside of course.
But that's not enough in 100 attempts over that time.
For me the annual FA Cup exit never gets any easier.
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Post by gawa on Aug 11, 2022 21:38:42 GMT
I haven't ever looked at it as a MON thing. I'm just endlessly disappointed at our abject failure to make an impact in either cup competition for the thick end of 50 years. The Pulis FA Cup final and the Hughes League Cup semi-final aside of course. But that's not enough in 100 attempts over that time. For me the annual FA Cup exit never gets any easier. The league Cup run in 20/21 was good. Knocked out 2 PL teams and were drawing against Spurs until the 70th min. Won that and it would have been a league Cup semi final against Brentford. |
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Post by anchorman on Aug 11, 2022 21:54:24 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Mark Hughes - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. Didn't we get completeley stuffed at home to Wolves in the FA cup under Hughes when a certain Mr Lambert was Wolves manager? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2022 21:56:20 GMT
The amount of straws that are being clutched at after.
Isn’t there a MON thread for this crap?
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Post by Gods on Aug 11, 2022 21:58:11 GMT
I haven't ever looked at it as a MON thing. I'm just endlessly disappointed at our abject failure to make an impact in either cup competition for the thick end of 50 years. The Pulis FA Cup final and the Hughes League Cup semi-final aside of course. But that's not enough in 100 attempts over that time. For me the annual FA Cup exit never gets any easier. The league Cup run in 20/21 was good. Knocked out 2 PL teams and were drawing against Spurs until the 70th min. Won that and it would have been a league Cup semi final against Brentford. Agreed. That League Cup run was easily the best thing to have happened to us in the 5 years since we departed the Prem. Some would say it is only good thing to have happened to us in that time. Quite why some people think our cup exit at Morecambe doesn't matter is beyond me. Without the cups we are just grinding out 46 championship games against largely the same opposition we played last season and the season before that and the season before that! I mean its tedium and then some. |
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Post by jokker on Aug 11, 2022 22:20:44 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Eddie Niedzwiecki - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. The cup defeat to Coventry was Hughes last game before he was dismissed. Eddie Niedzwiecki took charge for one games vs Man Utd before Lambert was appointed. Wasn't the Shrewsbury also Rowett's last? |
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Post by jokker on Aug 11, 2022 22:23:00 GMT
The amount of straws that are being clutched at after. Isn’t there a MON thread for this crap? Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 11, 2022 22:23:21 GMT
The league Cup run in 20/21 was good. Knocked out 2 PL teams and were drawing against Spurs until the 70th min. Won that and it would have been a league Cup semi final against Brentford. Agreed. That League Cup run was easily the best thing to have happened to us in the 5 years since we departed the Prem. Some would say it is only good thing to have happened to us in that time. Quite why some people think our cup exit at Morecambe doesn't matter is beyond me. Without the cups we are just grinding out 46 championship games against largely the same opposition we played last season and the season before that and the season before that! I mean its tedium and then some. Of course its disappointing to go out but I think most fans would prefer a good league campaign over a near league Cup semi final. I can't comment on Morecambe as I didn't watch it. From the highlights it looked like the game was played in their half and we created plenty but just couldn't convert. We lost as it went to penalties but I think you could have played for 5 hours and Morecambe still wouldn't have scored. 2.6xG but converted none. Not losing sleep over it. |
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Post by Gods on Aug 11, 2022 22:26:25 GMT
Agreed. That League Cup run was easily the best thing to have happened to us in the 5 years since we departed the Prem. Some would say it is only good thing to have happened to us in that time. Quite why some people think our cup exit at Morecambe doesn't matter is beyond me. Without the cups we are just grinding out 46 championship games against largely the same opposition we played last season and the season before that and the season before that! I mean its tedium and then some.
I can't comment on Morecambe as I didn't watch it. From the highlights it looked like the game was played in their half and we created plenty but just couldn't convert. We lost as it went to penalties but I think you could have played for 5 hours and Morecambe still wouldn't have scored. 2.6xG but converted none. Not losing sleep over it. I know what you are saying but it's not either/or is it? We must be able to do 2 things at the same time. I don't believe for 1 second that losing in the league cup will help out league campaign. 'Momentum' is the watchword, and we haven't seen any in 5 years. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 11, 2022 22:32:14 GMT
Of course its disappointing to go out but I think most fans would prefer a good league campaign over a near league Cup semi final.
I can't comment on Morecambe as I didn't watch it. From the highlights it looked like the game was played in their half and we created plenty but just couldn't convert. We lost as it went to penalties but I think you could have played for 5 hours and Morecambe still wouldn't have scored. 2.6xG but converted none. Not losing sleep over it. I know what you are saying but it's not either/or is it? We must be able to do 2 things at the same time. I don't believe for 1 second that losing in the league cup will help out league campaign. 'Momentum' is the watchword, and we haven't seen any in 5 years. I agree it won't help. I'd prefer to be in the competition so fringe players can get minutes and have the opportunity to push their way into the team and create competition. But it's done now. Like I said I didn't watch it so I'm not qualified to comment. But to me it looked more like one of those games where we did everything but score. |
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Post by generationex on Aug 11, 2022 22:33:43 GMT
You don’t get to quarters or semi finals regularly unless you’re in the top flight.
Cup success is a by-product of being one of the best 15 teams in the league structure. Stoke have historically under-achieved even when we were one of the better clubs. We are arguably the least successful club of all time relative to out position.
But - losing to crap teams now below us shows we are not developing a winning mentality.
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Post by jokker on Aug 11, 2022 22:34:26 GMT
Of course its disappointing to go out but I think most fans would prefer a good league campaign over a near league Cup semi final.
I can't comment on Morecambe as I didn't watch it. From the highlights it looked like the game was played in their half and we created plenty but just couldn't convert. We lost as it went to penalties but I think you could have played for 5 hours and Morecambe still wouldn't have scored. 2.6xG but converted none. Not losing sleep over it. I know what you are saying but it's not either/or is it? We must be able to do 2 things at the same time. I don't believe for 1 second that losing in the league cup will help out league campaign. 'Momentum' is the watchword, and we haven't seen any in 5 years. It won't help in the league because just about all the other championship teams also lost to inferior opposition. It's not true that we haven't seen momentum in five years. After we had saved ourselves in M'ON's first season we won a lot of matches towards the end of that season, which was great momentum potentially, but before we could turn it into a useful run for the next season we went and lost. |
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Post by Gods on Aug 11, 2022 22:56:19 GMT
I know what you are saying but it's not either/or is it? We must be able to do 2 things at the same time. I don't believe for 1 second that losing in the league cup will help out league campaign. 'Momentum' is the watchword, and we haven't seen any in 5 years. It won't help in the league because just about all the other championship teams also lost to inferior opposition. It's not true that we haven't seen momentum in five years. After we had saved ourselves in M'ON's first season we won a lot of matches towards the end of that season, which was great momentum potentially, but before we could turn it into a useful run for the next season we went and lost. It won't help in the league full stop. Nothing to do with what happens to anyone else. Losing matches against teams in a league below you as in this case, or above you, or in the same league is just not what you want to do. |
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Post by kustokie on Aug 11, 2022 23:22:23 GMT
The amount of straws that are being clutched at after. Isn’t there a MON thread for this crap? Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. Yes it is |
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Post by gawa on Aug 11, 2022 23:44:12 GMT
It's not really about the manager. I wouldn't say Michael O'Neil has exactly set the cups alight by any means.
He's done better than the predecessors but aside from the league Cup run to the QF, we've not really progressed more than 3 or 4 rounds at most.
As has been mentioned. It just shows consistent under achievement more than anything.
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Post by scfcwebby on Aug 12, 2022 0:21:17 GMT
The amount of straws that are being clutched at after. Isn’t there a MON thread for this crap? Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. Yes it is, the OP specifically references MON |
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Post by samwidge on Aug 12, 2022 0:42:20 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Mark Hughes - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. I hope we can keep you as a stokie gawa whenever it may be that Michael moves on. I really hope he succeeds and I really like his personality. And I enjoy reading your posts and pretty much agree with what you have to say. Yeah, just hope the stoke bug has bitten you mate. 👍 |
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 12, 2022 0:46:08 GMT
The cup defeat to Coventry was Hughes last game before he was dismissed. Eddie Niedzwiecki took charge for one games vs Man Utd before Lambert was appointed. Wasn't the Shrewsbury also Rowett's last? I actually thought that Shrews game was an early Jones match? I remember the collapse setting alarm bells ringing a bit |
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Post by walrus on Aug 12, 2022 6:38:40 GMT
Wasn't the Shrewsbury also Rowett's last? I actually thought that Shrews game was an early Jones match? I remember the collapse setting alarm bells ringing a bit There were two Shrews games. The away draw under Rowett and the home loss in the replay under Jones. The home loss was immediately followed by an excellent win over Leeds who were top at that point and we all thought Jones was a tactical genius for a few hours at least. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 12, 2022 6:49:03 GMT
The amount of straws that are being clutched at after. Isn’t there a MON thread for this crap? Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. It is. We got knocked out of the cup because of the manager being negative. Not because we traditionally do shit in cups. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 12, 2022 7:00:08 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Mark Hughes - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. I hope we can keep you as a stokie gawa whenever it may be that Michael moves on. I really hope he succeeds and I really like his personality. And I enjoy reading your posts and pretty much agree with what you have to say. Yeah, just hope the stoke bug has bitten you mate. 👍 Thank you very much mate. I have no intentions of going anywhere soon and hope to make it over to a game soon too. Not sure why some people are trying to make the thread about the manager. It's literally just about Stoke City in the cup in recent years and as O'Neil has been here for a few years, of course he will have more runs listed. |
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Post by jokker on Aug 12, 2022 8:06:23 GMT
It won't help in the league because just about all the other championship teams also lost to inferior opposition. It's not true that we haven't seen momentum in five years. After we had saved ourselves in M'ON's first season we won a lot of matches towards the end of that season, which was great momentum potentially, but before we could turn it into a useful run for the next season we went and lost. It won't help in the league full stop. Nothing to do with what happens to anyone else. Losing matches against teams in a league below you as in this case, or above you, or in the same league is just not what you want to do. It does have something to do with what happens with other teams potentially. If your next league opponent has advanced to the next round and has a cracking tie which they believe they can win with the promise of a bumper crowd, they might play a weakened team in the league game before to protect their best players against a Stoke team they don't really respect on the same level, and that of course increases our chances of getting three unexpected points. But any such potential advantage has now been lost, which is just as well, because winning against such slightly superior opposition would only gives us a false sense that wwe can actually beat the best of them.... |
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Post by jokker on Aug 12, 2022 8:07:11 GMT
Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. It is. We got knocked out of the cup because of the manager being negative. Not because we traditionally do shit in cups. That's your opinion, but that's not what we're discussing. |
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Post by jokker on Aug 12, 2022 8:10:15 GMT
Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. Yes it is, the OP specifically references MON You can't have a present day thread that doesn't "reference" MON, but this nohing to do with the usual MON bashing and everything to do with our historical cup record which involves other managers. |
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Post by jokker on Aug 12, 2022 8:10:53 GMT
Try reading before you comment. this is not even about him especially. Yes it is No. |
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Post by skemstokie on Aug 12, 2022 8:25:10 GMT
A lot of chat about the Morecambe game so thought I'd have a look to see how we've faired in cup competitions under Michael. Since then: 19/20 FA Cup - Brentford (ch) Loss 20/21 League Cup - Blackpool (L1) Win, Wolves (PL) win, Gillingham (L1) Win, Aston Villa (PL) win, Spurs (PL) loss 20/21 FA Cup - Leicester City (PL) loss 21/22 League Cup - Fleetwood (L1) Win, Doncaster (L1) Win, Watford (PL) win, Brentford (PL) loss 21/22 FA Cup - Leyton Orient (L2) win, Wigan (L1) Win, Crystal Palace (PL) loss So I make that: PL - 3 wins, 4 losses Championship - 1 loss League One - 5 wins 1 draw League Two - 1 win 9 wins, 5 losses, 1 draw. (Nearly half games against PL opposition) Before Tuesday the last time we were knocked out by lower league opposition was: Nathan Jones - League Cup v League 2 Crawley (19/20) Gary Rowett - FA Cup v League 1 Shrewsbury (18/19) Mark Hughes - FA Cup v League 2 Coventry (17/18) Mark Hughes - League Cup v championship Bristol City (17/18) Youd nearly think that O'Neil has made a habit of losing to lower league opposition in the cup reading on here. We have much more important games to play than cup games,games which could get us promoted. Knock-out cups by there nature mean 50% of teams are eliminated this time it was Stoke, if you enjoy a giant killing when we play top teams you have to be man enough to accept being the victim when it becomes our teams turn. |
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Post by scfcwebby on Aug 12, 2022 8:32:38 GMT
Yes it is, the OP specifically references MON You can't have a present day thread that doesn't "reference" MON, but this nohing to do with the usual MON bashing and everything to do with our historical cup record which involves other managers. I read it as he was trying to defend us (MON) going out to Morecambe by comparing it to our history in the cup, and I'm 99.99% positive I'm right |
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