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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 28, 2022 9:04:19 GMT
We’ve got an awkward decision to make in a few weeks as we can only name 5 loan players in a squad. Sterling and Fosu look shoe ins at the moment, so that means two from Delap, Clarke and Smallbone? Not an easy call. That's 5 players you've named. Am I missing something? Smallbone is the weakest of the 5 you've named, in my opinion. Kilkenny's the sixth. You would imagine when he's back it will be a choice between Smallbone and him. At the moment though I an see Delap's loan perhaps being terminated in January as I honestly don't see what he's gaining from it except learning how to play against physical defenders with no protection from a referee and getting booked for falling over and protesting too vociferously both things which as a Man City player he needs in his locker. It's a case of how the rest of the football world live for a top club player. At the moment his value must be taking a knock.
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 28, 2022 9:07:54 GMT
Not seen a thread on him yet but far from impressed with him so far. Seems to take the easy way all the time and doesn’t really cover the defence either. I think Thompson is better and we generally seem to play better with Thompson in the side. Feel free to abuse me😉 Think Thompson is underrated personally. His best role is undoubtedly as the holding player in a midfield 3, and we look a lot more stable with him in the side - he does a lot of the donkey work sitting in, winning balls through the middle of the park and starting attacks from deep as he can pick a pass as well. Unfortunately his versatility has gone against him with regards to him holding a regular place in the side, with him being redeployed to wing back and in every central midfield role (think he's played as a 10 once or twice too). As for Laurent, he just seems to be a nothing player - don't see what he offers as he's not a ball winner, not a great passer, doesn't run at people and certainly doesn't contribute in any way coming forward - and symptomatic of MON era signings ie. A cast off to join a long list of cast offs and past it plodders. Agree about Thompson as the defensive midfield player but as someone said above what Laurent does capably which I'm not sure Thompson can, is drop back as a centre half when Wilmot pushes forward. Normally he's good at doing that but made the mistake leading to the second last week.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 28, 2022 9:23:36 GMT
Pretty much bar none, Joe Allen was the worst midfielder we have had in recent years. He had so much opportunity to do well for us, but failed pretty much on every occasion. Every game he played in he offered next to nothing for the attackers and no protection to the backline. Our midfield was always overran. Laurent looks physically commanding, strong, tall, fast, decent in the air. He simply offers way more protection to the backline but his touch isnt as good as Joes. It'll be interesting to see over the remainder of the season if Laurent can show he can get a good relationship / understanding with the rest of the team. WTF. Allen was one of the best midfielders we had since we went down, perhaps only surpassed by Powell (who's more of a forward/attacking midfielder). People seem to think he was supposed to be some kind of defensive anchor (see you own comparison with Laurent) when he was more of a playmaker type. It wasn't his fault the shit quartet of Lambert, Rowett, Jones and MON couldn't balance a team. And don't forget he was playing with world beaters such as Clucas, Vrancic, Tom Ince, Fletcher, Cousins and Oakley-Boothe. And of course the world star and non-moving object Mikel. We all saw how good he could be when Baker came in and gave his passing an outlet. And his work rate was second to none. And for all the "physically commanding, strong, tall, fast, decent in the air" attributes you seem to think Laurent has, none of it matters if he can't position himself and doesn't work hard. He was complicit in both goals vs. Coventry because he was not doing his job, so I don't know where you get "He simply offers way more protection to the backline" from. I prefer Thompson, but it's good that we have competition for the DM position. But he actually did play as an anchor when Baker came in and played it well? If he could've been the type of player he was at Swansea, that would've helped us out a lot, a disciplined, metronomic presence at the base of midfield. What we got, too often, was a dog chasing a balloon.
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Post by lordb on Oct 28, 2022 10:25:46 GMT
WTF. Allen was one of the best midfielders we had since we went down, perhaps only surpassed by Powell (who's more of a forward/attacking midfielder). People seem to think he was supposed to be some kind of defensive anchor (see you own comparison with Laurent) when he was more of a playmaker type. It wasn't his fault the shit quartet of Lambert, Rowett, Jones and MON couldn't balance a team. And don't forget he was playing with world beaters such as Clucas, Vrancic, Tom Ince, Fletcher, Cousins and Oakley-Boothe. And of course the world star and non-moving object Mikel. We all saw how good he could be when Baker came in and gave his passing an outlet. And his work rate was second to none. And for all the "physically commanding, strong, tall, fast, decent in the air" attributes you seem to think Laurent has, none of it matters if he can't position himself and doesn't work hard. He was complicit in both goals vs. Coventry because he was not doing his job, so I don't know where you get "He simply offers way more protection to the backline" from. I prefer Thompson, but it's good that we have competition for the DM position. But he actually did play as an anchor when Baker came in and played it well? If he could've been the type of player he was at Swansea, that would've helped us out a lot, a disciplined, metronomic presence at the base of midfield. What we got, too often, was a dog chasing a balloon. indeed Allen suddenly was as positionally disciplined for Stoke as he has been for Wales the minute Baker turned up which to me demonstrates that Allen trusted Baker whereas he hadn't trusted previous players & tried to do far too much anyway Laurent Baker Powell for me should work/should be a good midfield
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Post by idle on Oct 28, 2022 10:54:10 GMT
But he actually did play as an anchor when Baker came in and played it well? If he could've been the type of player he was at Swansea, that would've helped us out a lot, a disciplined, metronomic presence at the base of midfield. What we got, too often, was a dog chasing a balloon. When Baker came in I wouldn't really think Allen was used as an anchor. An anchor role implies a static defensive player only sitting in front of the defence to break up attacks, like Mikel did. Allen was used as a player that could break up attacks due to work rate and positioning and then start attacks with good passing to Baker and to a lesser degree Vrancic. He did better because Baker was a player making better runs, and with an ok positional sense as a midfielder. You could see the potential at times when Mikel was DM and Allen and Vrancic were the central midfielders. Don't get me wrong, he could have done better, but he was hardly alone.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 28, 2022 10:58:15 GMT
But he actually did play as an anchor when Baker came in and played it well? If he could've been the type of player he was at Swansea, that would've helped us out a lot, a disciplined, metronomic presence at the base of midfield. What we got, too often, was a dog chasing a balloon. When Baker came in I wouldn't really think Allen was used as an anchor. An anchor role implies a static defensive player only sitting in front of the defence to break up attacks, like Mikel did. Allen was used as a player that could break up attacks due to work rate and positioning and then start attacks with good passing to Baker and to a lesser degree Vrancic. He did better because Baker was a player making better runs, and with an ok positional sense as a midfielder. You could see the potential at times when Mikel was DM and Allen and Vrancic were the central midfielders. Don't get me wrong, he could have done better, but he was hardly alone. It's all semantics of course but he was clearly the deeper midfielder and played with a positional discipline he'd rarely previously displayed for us. We needed that from him a lot more.
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Post by idle on Oct 28, 2022 11:27:15 GMT
It's all semantics of course but he was clearly the deeper midfielder and played with a positional discipline he'd rarely previously displayed for us. We needed that from him a lot more. Sure, but at the same time can you blame him when none of the other midfielders do their jobs?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 28, 2022 11:40:17 GMT
It's all semantics of course but he was clearly the deeper midfielder and played with a positional discipline he'd rarely previously displayed for us. We needed that from him a lot more. Sure, but at the same time can you blame him when none of the other midfielders do their jobs? Not for not doing theirs. For ignoring his own to run all over the shop and cover for them, 100% yes, that's playground football stuff. It made things worse.
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Post by idle on Oct 28, 2022 11:57:28 GMT
Not for not doing theirs. For ignoring his own to run all over the shop and cover for them, 100% yes, that's playground football stuff. It made things worse. I don't know about that, we're just as bad now with Laurent. Maybe even worse. It could be that having 2-3 passengers in midfield doesn't work at all. I'm thinking even better players than Allen would have struggled.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 28, 2022 12:57:04 GMT
Not for not doing theirs. For ignoring his own to run all over the shop and cover for them, 100% yes, that's playground football stuff. It made things worse. I don't know about that, we're just as bad now with Laurent. Maybe even worse. It could be that having 2-3 passengers in midfield doesn't work at all. I'm thinking even better players than Allen would have struggled. I honestly thought a jobbing, mediocre DM like Cousins did a better job at that role that Allen did. He knew his job and unflashily stuck to it. That's really all it needed. Suspect a proper DM will be a priority for AN in the summer if not Jan if Laurent doesn't step up. His first few games were good. Seems to be good or bad with no in-between.
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Post by idle on Oct 28, 2022 13:06:26 GMT
I honestly thought a jobbing, mediocre DM like Cousins did a better job at that role that Allen did. He knew his job and unflashily stuck to it. That's really all it needed. Suspect a proper DM will be a priority for AN in the summer if not Jan if Laurent doesn't step up. His first few games were good. Seems to be good or bad with no in-between. I thought Cousins was horrible, he ahd one good game and the rest was shite. League 2 at most. But you're right, Allen wasn't good as a static DM as it didn't suit him. He was better when moved a bit further upfield. A proper DM would be nice, but that still leaves us with only Baker and Powell (sort of, he's way too attacking) in central midfield. We need another creative midfielder as well.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 28, 2022 13:13:05 GMT
I honestly thought a jobbing, mediocre DM like Cousins did a better job at that role that Allen did. He knew his job and unflashily stuck to it. That's really all it needed. Suspect a proper DM will be a priority for AN in the summer if not Jan if Laurent doesn't step up. His first few games were good. Seems to be good or bad with no in-between. I thought Cousins was horrible, he ahd one good game and the rest was shite. League 2 at most. But you're right, Allen wasn't good as a static DM as it didn't suit him. He was better when moved a bit further upfield. A proper DM would be nice, but that still leaves us with only Baker and Powell (sort of, he's way too attacking) in central midfield. We need another creative midfielder as well. He wasn't anything spectacular but I don't see how he was shite? He was good positionally, strong in the tackle and when he was dropped our run of clean sheets evaporated. We do need some creativity somewhere I agree. I think Thompson and Laurent have roles to play in midfield but neither are creative and Baker isn't really either. It's Baker, Powell plus one at the moment.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 28, 2022 13:15:59 GMT
That's 5 players you've named. Am I missing something? Smallbone is the weakest of the 5 you've named, in my opinion. Kilkenny's the sixth. You would imagine when he's back it will be a choice between Smallbone and him. At the moment though I an see Delap's loan perhaps being terminated in January as I honestly don't see what he's gaining from it except learning how to play against physical defenders with no protection from a referee and getting booked for falling over and protesting too vociferously both things which as a Man City player he needs in his locker. It's a case of how the rest of the football world live for a top club player. At the moment his value must be taking a knock. I'd forgotten about Kilkenny.. easily done unfortunately given his lack of presence
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 28, 2022 13:41:17 GMT
I thought Laurent was very good in the first half v Coventry. He broke up play and moved the ball around well.
We dominated that half, I thought we just couldn't break down a well organised Coventry side.
Baker is more of a concern for me.
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 5, 2023 14:26:22 GMT
I feel it's relevant to highlight that J L is really showing excellent form, particularly since Ince tried to unsettle him when we last played Reading. Another great day for him yesterday.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 5, 2023 14:31:10 GMT
Good player worth keeping.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 5, 2023 15:03:13 GMT
On his day he’s a class act. Seems to be getting into the habit oh getting the odd goal too.
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Post by stokest5 on Mar 5, 2023 15:18:59 GMT
Very much improved.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 5, 2023 15:59:59 GMT
AN seems to be getting the best out of the midfield now he's got to grips with it, Laurent and Smallbone look different players.
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Post by dwr17477 on Mar 5, 2023 16:00:33 GMT
Saw him away at Norwich and thought he was awful but he's come on massively since the WC break. Him, Pearson and Smallbone have been key to the steady improvement we've seen. Just need to string some wins together and have a good Summer signing spree.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 5, 2023 16:06:30 GMT
My favourite player in this squad after Powell.
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Post by Linx on Mar 5, 2023 16:10:28 GMT
My favourite player in this squad after Powell. I suspect we won’t see much more of Powell, though.
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Post by ibby on Mar 5, 2023 16:15:15 GMT
Doing well.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 5, 2023 16:21:47 GMT
If Baker isn't going to make the starting 11,make Laurent Captain.
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Post by st3mark on Mar 5, 2023 16:37:40 GMT
Laurent and Smallbone are both benefitting from Pearson.
They are literally 10 yards further up the pitch knowing that THE NET (just christened Pearson that) is behind them ready to catch anything that sneaks in behind them.
Wonderfully balanced midfield when they are all in the line up. Its amazing the difference because both have been poor for over half of the season. As a three they click well.
Thompson should be sitting with his notepad watching Pearson because if he can replicate it he could be twice the player. Tidy with his short game etc but if he could sweep up like Pearson then he'd double his worth.
Pearson signing is a must. Smallbone in this form should be signed but Southampton want to keep him. Laurent looks to have turned a corner. Roll on Friday.
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Post by stormin on Mar 6, 2023 19:01:51 GMT
My favourite player in this squad after Powell. If you think about it, at Sunderland the whole team are now a lot fitter, and for the full 90 minutes, A.N's efforts are starting to have an impact.
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 6, 2023 20:56:15 GMT
My favourite player in this squad after Powell. If you think about it, at Sunderland the whole team are now a lot fitter, and for the full 90 minutes, A.N's efforts are starting to have an impact. I was thinking exactly the same thing after the last 2 games.. the team are clearly much fitter the difference is plain to see. Makes me wonder why they weren't properly fit before he turned up.
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Post by dirtclod on Mar 6, 2023 21:01:08 GMT
If you think about it, at Sunderland the whole team are now a lot fitter, and for the full 90 minutes, A.N's efforts are starting to have an impact. I was thinking exactly the same thing after the last 2 games.. the team are clearly much fitter the difference is plain to see. Makes me wonder why they weren't properly fit before he turned up. I didn't think they were and AN even said something about them not being to the levels he'd like them to be at (or something to that effect) shortly after he arrived here. But they sure look better now.
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 6, 2023 21:22:12 GMT
I was thinking exactly the same thing after the last 2 games.. the team are clearly much fitter the difference is plain to see. Makes me wonder why they weren't properly fit before he turned up. I didn't think they were and AN even said something about them not being to the levels he'd like them to be at (or something to that effect) shortly after he arrived here. But they sure look better now. Yes Neil mentioned it more than once, if memory serves.. hard to understand why the previous manager's/coaches allowed the situation to continue. Off of the top of my head it could maybe be that MoN was more adept at running a National squad and had lost any skillset he had in relation to developing and maintaining squad fitness levels? Who knows what Nathan Jones' reasons could've been?.. other than Stoke weren't, and never would be Luton
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Post by a on Mar 6, 2023 22:38:15 GMT
Have some jumped the gun I.E. Benji? I am shocked. Maybe he needs to be judged after say 2-3 months rather than games? Just bump this 😉
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