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Post by flea79 on Jul 8, 2022 11:34:30 GMT
if true its terrible and those responsible should be punished but having said that (and it doesnt excuse it) it seems to be a powerplay by senior players that has gone too far and been left unchecked listening to some of the old pros who go on undr the cosh things like this were commonplace i heard a story from Craig Davies on there recently who told a story about a senior player who had a set too with a youth teamer who he then sodomised with a banana in the dressing room, was there anything sexual from this, i doubt it but it is too much but it all leads to what is a toxic atmosphere in clubs changing rooms that may still be going on to this day Is there anything sexual? Yes, the banana in the arse sounds quite sexual. If they wanted to do something that wasn’t sexual, there are plenty of ways to beat up/humiliate a young person. “A power play that has gone too far”, nope if true, it was sexual assault. Edit: it’s also this kind of crap that makes me laugh at statements about society never being worse etc. That couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that so much more was left underreported and worse, swept under the rug. well yes a banana up the arse is overtly sexual but was it done for sexual perks or as a display of power for the abuser and humiliation for the victim is the question? im more leaning to the second one like the old pink arse punishment routine where players would bend over bare cheeks on show and have penalties blasted at the arse for transgressions, is there a sexual element too it, yes, but was it done for sexual thrills, no! its using sexuality as a tool of embarrassment maybe im completely being naïve about this and trying to ignore the worst but i refuse to believe every single dressing room was full of sexual predators who were all closeted homosexuals with an interest in young boys
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 8, 2022 11:39:48 GMT
Is there anything sexual? Yes, the banana in the arse sounds quite sexual. If they wanted to do something that wasn’t sexual, there are plenty of ways to beat up/humiliate a young person. “A power play that has gone too far”, nope if true, it was sexual assault. Edit: it’s also this kind of crap that makes me laugh at statements about society never being worse etc. That couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that so much more was left underreported and worse, swept under the rug. well yes a banana up the arse is overtly sexual but was it done for sexual perks or as a display of power for the abuser and humiliation for the victim is the question? im more leaning to the second one like the old pink arse punishment routine where players would bend over bare cheeks on show and have penalties blasted at the arse for transgressions, is there a sexual element too it, yes, but was it done for sexual thrills, no! its using sexuality as a tool of embarrassment maybe im completely being naïve about this and trying to ignore the worst but i refuse to believe every single dressing room was full of sexual predators who were all closeted homosexuals with an interest in young boys Doesn’t matter what you or anyone calls it, it’s sick, depraved and completely unacceptable. I doubt the abused were overly concerned if it was done for sexual thrills
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 8, 2022 11:41:08 GMT
It was, it happened, nobody died, move on. I got beaten on a regular basis by a teacher who’d been to the pub at dinner time quite often for things I hadn’t even done. It wasn’t just me he continued being a violent bastard after I’d left. No long term damage honest. You just have to be glad that that sort of behaviour is no longer tolerated. Your own experience notwithstanding, “nobody died, move on” doesn’t seem a sensible approach to criminal justice for potential violent abusers to me. Would sort out the court backlog and the lack of police. Victim of fraud "Nobody died, move on" Mugged at knifepoint "Nobody died, move on" Burgled "Nobody died moved on" Sexually assaulted "Nobody died move on" Violently raped "Nobody died, move on" MURDERS ONLY.
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Post by Orbs on Jul 8, 2022 12:01:17 GMT
Worse that having deep heat forced up your bum hole off a goalie glove? Go on… Still a common practice in the forces, just minus the goalie glove. He said Wedgewood.
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 8, 2022 12:06:56 GMT
Still a common practice in the forces, just minus the goalie glove. He said Wedgewood. He was also refering to worse than having your arse pinched. Not the goalie glove treatment.
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Post by 1977delta on Jul 8, 2022 12:08:48 GMT
Fox was a great keeper for Stoke. He saved us at Peterborough . I have always wondered though why Lou Macari was so reluctant to play him , preferring Sinclair or bringing keepers in on loan. This might be the reason why. If it is true , he should have been thrown out of the club .
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Jul 8, 2022 12:09:59 GMT
I mean, this really isn't the big takeaway from this article by any means, but we always did wonder why we didn't get many youngsters coming through the ranks. Not exactly conducive to youth player development, is it?
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 8, 2022 12:16:19 GMT
Fox was a great keeper for Stoke. He saved us at Peterborough . I have always wondered though why Lou Macari was so reluctant to play him , preferring Sinclair or bringing keepers in on loan. This might be the reason why. If it is true , he should have been thrown out of the club . Nothing to do with it. Fox was due a large bonus payment on a landmark appearance (maybe 400 games can’t remember). This was written into his contract. We simply didn’t have the money to pay and Macari didn’t particularly rate him anyway.
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Post by Orbs on Jul 8, 2022 12:27:12 GMT
He was also refering to worse than having your arse pinched. Not the goalie glove treatment. I’m asking about Wedgewood - what happened there that was worse than having a fingered glove covered in deep heat up your arse?
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Post by wakeypotter on Jul 8, 2022 12:29:59 GMT
Your own experience notwithstanding, “nobody died, move on” doesn’t seem a sensible approach to criminal justice for potential violent abusers to me. Would sort out the court backlog and the lack of police. Victim of fraud "Nobody died, move on" Mugged at knifepoint "Nobody died, move on" Burgled "Nobody died moved on" Sexually assaulted "Nobody died move on" Violently raped "Nobody died, move on" MURDERS ONLY. It would make plenty of room in prisons I guess and there would be some lost jobs also Fox is up there with one of my favourite players but if this is true it’s shocking even though it was 40 years ago
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Post by wakeypotter on Jul 8, 2022 12:30:52 GMT
He was also refering to worse than having your arse pinched. Not the goalie glove treatment. I’m asking about Wedgewood - what happened there that was worse than having a fingered glove covered in deep heat up your arse? Why are you thinking of applying for a job there
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 8, 2022 12:33:17 GMT
I used to work with a gal who always squeezed your arse. If you reported her would be laughed at. What a fucking daft comment. Trivialising abuse of others stops it being reported and perpetuates abusive behaviour.
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 8, 2022 12:35:45 GMT
Is there anything sexual? Yes, the banana in the arse sounds quite sexual. If they wanted to do something that wasn’t sexual, there are plenty of ways to beat up/humiliate a young person. “A power play that has gone too far”, nope if true, it was sexual assault. Edit: it’s also this kind of crap that makes me laugh at statements about society never being worse etc. That couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that so much more was left underreported and worse, swept under the rug. well yes a banana up the arse is overtly sexual but was it done for sexual perks or as a display of power for the abuser and humiliation for the victim is the question? im more leaning to the second one like the old pink arse punishment routine where players would bend over bare cheeks on show and have penalties blasted at the arse for transgressions, is there a sexual element too it, yes, but was it done for sexual thrills, no! its using sexuality as a tool of embarrassment maybe im completely being naïve about this and trying to ignore the worst but i refuse to believe every single dressing room was full of sexual predators who were all closeted homosexuals with an interest in young boys Jesus fucking Christ. Read back what you've written ask yourself how you'd react if one of your kids came home and said they'd had a work colleague fuck them with a banana.
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 8, 2022 12:41:35 GMT
Horse play!! In any era this sort of thing is a brutal assault, back in the day it may have been more prevalent but it was always a brutal assault. Absolute nonsense that’s just judging past events by the standards of today. All manner of shit was fairly routine in schools and workplaces back in the day. Most teachers at my school would be behind bars nowadays and workplace experiences right up until the 90’s would lead to the same venue. Times and standards have changed markedly nobody died let sleeping dogs lie. Jesus. Apologist for bullies and deviants. Jimmy Savile did most of his abusing in the 70s and, as far as I know, nobody died. Should that sleeping dog have been let lie?
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Post by flea79 on Jul 8, 2022 12:49:06 GMT
well yes a banana up the arse is overtly sexual but was it done for sexual perks or as a display of power for the abuser and humiliation for the victim is the question? im more leaning to the second one like the old pink arse punishment routine where players would bend over bare cheeks on show and have penalties blasted at the arse for transgressions, is there a sexual element too it, yes, but was it done for sexual thrills, no! its using sexuality as a tool of embarrassment maybe im completely being naïve about this and trying to ignore the worst but i refuse to believe every single dressing room was full of sexual predators who were all closeted homosexuals with an interest in young boys Jesus fucking Christ. Read back what you've written ask yourself how you'd react if one of your kids came home and said they'd had a work colleague fuck them with a banana. yep reread it and nowhere do i condone it or say its ok or there should be no recourse for the actions these people took and my original post at the top of page two where i said there is no excuse for it my point is these people supposedly doing these things are not sexual predators they are bullies of the worst type using sexual violence to belittle and intimidate but there is a clear distinction between say George Berry getting involved with this as a power play and Savile repeatedly raping sick children
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 8, 2022 12:53:02 GMT
I used to work with a gal who always squeezed your arse. If you reported her would be laughed at. What a fucking daft comment. Trivialising abuse of others stops it being reported and perpetuates abusive behaviour. Wouldn’t be trivialising it if it happened to one of their own kids!
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 8, 2022 13:06:56 GMT
Jesus fucking Christ. Read back what you've written ask yourself how you'd react if one of your kids came home and said they'd had a work colleague fuck them with a banana. yep reread it and nowhere do i condone it or say its ok or there should be no recourse for the actions these people took and my original post at the top of page two where i said there is no excuse for it my point is these people supposedly doing these things are not sexual predators they are bullies of the worst type using sexual violence to belittle and intimidate but there is a clear distinction between say George Berry getting involved with this as a power play and Savile repeatedly raping sick children No there isn’t. They just decided to put a banana (or in Stoke’s case, a gloved finger with deep heat) in there instead of a dick. “Power play” what a great way to water down sodomy.
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Post by baystokie on Jul 8, 2022 13:18:11 GMT
It really doesn't. A civil court decided on the balance of probability that it didn't happen. The witnesses must have given massively conflicting accounts. You are never getting home a criminal conviction on it so why waste anymore time on it Civil case was one person. Even in that case the judge ruled: “I do not find the claimant’s allegations are consciously dishonest or that nothing untoward ever occurred between players and apprentices at the club all those years ago.” But he said he was unable to find as fact the specific events alleged - i.e. they couldn’t be conclusively 100 per cent proved. Now there are 11 people who have come forward as alleged victims or witnesses. I don’t want it to be true but there does seem some substance to the allegations. Is there any substance to any allegation until PROVEN? To say there IS substance seems to be pre-judging the issue. If any subsequent court case proves the allegation unfounded, then there wasn't any substance and vice versa, of course.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 8, 2022 13:22:29 GMT
Civil case was one person. Even in that case the judge ruled: “I do not find the claimant’s allegations are consciously dishonest or that nothing untoward ever occurred between players and apprentices at the club all those years ago.” But he said he was unable to find as fact the specific events alleged - i.e. they couldn’t be conclusively 100 per cent proved. Now there are 11 people who have come forward as alleged victims or witnesses. I don’t want it to be true but there does seem some substance to the allegations. Is there any substance to any allegation until PROVEN? To say there IS substance seems to be pre-judging the issue. If any subsequent court case proves the allegation unfounded, then there wasn't any substance and vice versa, of course. That’s misleading and a bit simplistic. For a case to make it to court, there will be substance far, far more often than not. The burden of proof however is a very difficult obstacle to overcome, especially in sexual assault and rape cases.
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2022 13:31:20 GMT
Is there anything sexual? Yes, the banana in the arse sounds quite sexual. If they wanted to do something that wasn’t sexual, there are plenty of ways to beat up/humiliate a young person. “A power play that has gone too far”, nope if true, it was sexual assault. Edit: it’s also this kind of crap that makes me laugh at statements about society never being worse etc. That couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that so much more was left underreported and worse, swept under the rug. well yes a banana up the arse is overtly sexual but was it done for sexual perks or as a display of power for the abuser and humiliation for the victim is the question? im more leaning to the second one like the old pink arse punishment routine where players would bend over bare cheeks on show and have penalties blasted at the arse for transgressions, is there a sexual element too it, yes, but was it done for sexual thrills, no! its using sexuality as a tool of embarrassment maybe im completely being naïve about this and trying to ignore the worst but i refuse to believe every single dressing room was full of sexual predators who were all closeted homosexuals with an interest in young boys 'using sexuality as a tool of embarrassment' that's still sexual abuse
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2022 13:32:31 GMT
Fox was a great keeper for Stoke. He saved us at Peterborough . I have always wondered though why Lou Macari was so reluctant to play him , preferring Sinclair or bringing keepers in on loan. This might be the reason why. If it is true , he should have been thrown out of the club . no, the reason was Fox was due a bonus when he reached a certain number of games . he made 499 appearances for Stoke
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Post by shrewspotter on Jul 8, 2022 13:32:47 GMT
Jesus fucking Christ. Read back what you've written ask yourself how you'd react if one of your kids came home and said they'd had a work colleague fuck them with a banana. yep reread it and nowhere do i condone it or say its ok or there should be no recourse for the actions these people took and my original post at the top of page two where i said there is no excuse for it my point is these people supposedly doing these things are not sexual predators they are bullies of the worst type using sexual violence to belittle and intimidate but there is a clear distinction between say George Berry getting involved with this as a power play and Savile repeatedly raping sick children I guess only a victim can really say if there is a clear distinction though
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2022 13:33:45 GMT
I mean, this really isn't the big takeaway from this article by any means, but we always did wonder why we didn't get many youngsters coming through the ranks. Not exactly conducive to youth player development, is it? well to be fair at that time period we did Mills (he had little choice to be fair) played almost a teamfull in his first season
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jul 8, 2022 13:34:40 GMT
If he thinks that's bad, he should try working down the pit!!! 😳
They were like an initiation test back in the day, you were either a mardarse about it, or just brushed it off as high jinx... And if you were a mardarse.... Well, that didn't put you in a good light from that point on!!!
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 8, 2022 14:48:43 GMT
There are pranks played on young ones 1st starting work, most take it and move on, but sexule assault is another matter entirely, if these Stoke players are guilty, then let's hope justice prefails and those young players get some kind of compensation,then move on with their lives knowing they have received justice owed to them.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jul 8, 2022 15:00:10 GMT
It was, it happened, nobody died, move on. I got beaten on a regular basis by a teacher who’d been to the pub at dinner time quite often for things I hadn’t even done. It wasn’t just me he continued being a violent bastard after I’d left. No long term damage honest. You just have to be glad that that sort of behaviour is no longer tolerated. Maybe you are stronger mentally, others aren't. To say "nobody died" like it's a fact is just completely ignorant. People who suffered historical abuse take their own lives on a regular basis. We can’t change the past only learn lessons from it. The days I remember growing up and in my early working life were unrecognisable to that of today(though I believe bullying to be still quite prevalent even if less overt/physical). I often say I really enjoyed my developing years but would I have wanted it for my Son not on your life. I suppose I do trivialise it all. Maybe it was character building maybe it was just plain criminal. I see no advantage of delving back into most of it.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 8, 2022 15:08:36 GMT
Maybe you are stronger mentally, others aren't. To say "nobody died" like it's a fact is just completely ignorant. People who suffered historical abuse take their own lives on a regular basis. We can’t change the past only learn lessons from it. The days I remember growing up and in my early working life were unrecognisable to that of today(though I believe bullying to be still quite prevalent even if less overt/physical). I often say I really enjoyed my developing years but would I have wanted it for my Son not on your life. I suppose I do trivialise it all. Maybe it was character building maybe it was just plain criminal. I see no advantage of delving back into most of it.Well, YOU might see no advantage in delving back into it. But if a victim has suffered as a consequence of what happened to them many years ago and seeks justice, then there certainly IS an advantage to them in delving back into it. All victims of criminal/sexual abuse deserve justice if they want to pursue it - and ALL perpetrators of criminal/sexual abuse deserve to end up in court and suffer the appropriate punishment if found guilty.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 8, 2022 15:14:27 GMT
If he thinks that's bad, he should try working down the pit!!! 😳 They were like an initiation test back in the day, you were either a mardarse about it, or just brushed it off as high jinx... And if you were a mardarse.... Well, that didn't put you in a good light from that point on!!! This will make him feel a whole lot better.
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Jul 8, 2022 15:20:15 GMT
Christ alive, there's some proper (and sadly predictable) grim posts on this thread.
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Post by iamstokie on Jul 8, 2022 15:31:08 GMT
Worse that having deep heat forced up your bum hole off a goalie glove? Go on… Still a common practice in the forces, just minus the goalie glove. The things I’ve seen and done to new lads in the army would have half this message board crying to their mums , buts after 37 years we all still friends , family in fact , meet up regularly for drinks and functions
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