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Post by dirtclod on May 31, 2022 15:03:52 GMT
Touche. You said automatic. I think you're right about getting into the top 2, you've got to have a clear separation from the other teams, similar to Fulham this year. I don't think we'd have gotten into the top two even if we'd have won those games, only that we'd have finished higher than 14th. What would you say if we had? About 7th to 9th? That's what I'm thinking. So maybe edging shitty games might just get you into the bottom end of the playoffs at best. I get your point now. Yeah that is not an ambitious enough aspiration for me. It's the sort of thing you settle for reluctantly when the original target becomes unobtainable. Maybe I'm in a small minority who'd find the play offs quite underwhelming. Agree. "Backing into" the playoffs isn't my idea of "total success either. |
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Post by apb1 on May 31, 2022 16:54:14 GMT
We need the squads to stay mostly fit and:
Souttar at his best level or better
Campbell at his best level or better
Powell at his best level or better
Baker/Jags carry on sirs
Tymon/Brown to continue to improve
Bursik/Forrester/Taylor/Wright-Phillips/Wilmot/Doughty to begin to improve (for this level)
A new DM, RB, Striker
Finally, instil a winning mentality, some luck and a tad less shit from refs. Then we could challenge for top two. Unfortunately I can't see this manager achieving all or even most of this. But I'd settle for a season of Bursik, Soutts, Bakes, Powelly and Tyrese tearing it up, that would get us around the playoffs at least.
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Post by thevoid on May 31, 2022 16:56:55 GMT
I think most decent teams will have the capacity to grind out wins now and then when they need to - that's football and more a by-product of guts and mentality than anything else. It shouldn't be your Plan A intention to grimly grind out results though, if you've got aspirations of achieving anything. But we did quite a bit of that last season yet we've got posters claiming that's what was missing. Yet we didn't win a game by more than 2 goals did we? Swansea at home? Only one I can think of? |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 17:01:26 GMT
But we did quite a bit of that last season yet we've got posters claiming that's what was missing. Yet we didn't win a game by more than 2 goals did we? Swansea at home? Only one I can think of? I was there and somehow imagined remembering them scoring. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 31, 2022 17:06:00 GMT
We need the squads to stay mostly fit and: Souttar at his best level or better Campbell at his best level or better Powell at his best level or better Baker/Jags carry on sirs Tymon/Brown to continue to improve Bursik/Forrester/Taylor/Wright-Phillips/Wilmot/Doughty to begin to improve (for this level) A new DM, RB, Striker Finally, instil a winning mentality, some luck and a tad less shit from refs. Then we could challenge for top two. Unfortunately I can't see this manager achieving all or even most of this. But I'd settle for a season of Bursik, Soutts, Bakes, Powelly and Tyrese tearing it up, that would get us around the playoffs at least. Is ‘Bakes’ something we’re calling him? Didn’t get that memo. |
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Post by apb1 on May 31, 2022 17:10:23 GMT
We need the squads to stay mostly fit and: Souttar at his best level or better Campbell at his best level or better Powell at his best level or better Baker/Jags carry on sirs Tymon/Brown to continue to improve Bursik/Forrester/Taylor/Wright-Phillips/Wilmot/Doughty to begin to improve (for this level) A new DM, RB, Striker Finally, instil a winning mentality, some luck and a tad less shit from refs. Then we could challenge for top two. Unfortunately I can't see this manager achieving all or even most of this. But I'd settle for a season of Bursik, Soutts, Bakes, Powelly and Tyrese tearing it up, that would get us around the playoffs at least. Is ‘Bakes’ something we’re calling him? Didn’t get that memo. I call him it, but we're good buddies. You can call him Mr Baker. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 17:11:45 GMT
Is ‘Bakes’ something we’re calling him? Didn’t get that memo. I call him it, but we're good buddies. You can call him Mr Baker. I think you must just be an aquaintance. I call him Nathan. |
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Post by peterthornesboots on May 31, 2022 17:14:08 GMT
In short, we need a good summer and start to the season where:
- We make 5/6 really impactful signings (and in the right areas of the pitch).
- We need to be better with injuries - both in terms of keeping people fit but also getting Souttar and Campbell back up and running.
- We need MoN to be more forward thinking. We need to find a way to win more games if we are going to start pushing for the play-offs, therefore we need a more positive approach.
- We need an effective Plan B or some idea of how to change the outcome of a match during the game (substitutions or tactical changes).
There's a lot, in my opinion, that needs to change. Unfortunately I can't see anything other than another mid-table finish unless we have one hell of a transfer window.
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Post by jokker on May 31, 2022 18:19:28 GMT
In short, we need a good summer and start to the season where: - We make 5/6 really impactful signings (and in the right areas of the pitch). - We need to be better with injuries - both in terms of keeping people fit but also getting Souttar and Campbell back up and running. - We need MoN to be more forward thinking. We need to find a way to win more games if we are going to start pushing for the play-offs, therefore we need a more positive approach. - We need an effective Plan B or some idea of how to change the outcome of a match during the game (substitutions or tactical changes). There's a lot, in my opinion, that needs to change. Unfortunately I can't see anything other than another mid-table finish unless we have one hell of a transfer window. - we no longer have the money to make so many signings, let alone "impactful" ones. - there is no way you can guarantee to be better with injuries - you can't teach an old MON new tricks - we don't do plan B's I think you'll be lucky to finish midtable. Lower table will be the new achievement, anything above 22. |
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Post by musik on May 31, 2022 22:40:30 GMT
Striker. One of my suggestions every summer. 🤠|
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 1, 2022 8:29:51 GMT
"it's the ugly teams that win leagues" What like Man City & Fulham? I'll qualify that - only teams capable of playing ugly win leagues. Both Fulham and Man City ground out results when the pretty stuff wasn't working. Last season we couldn't do that. Given FFP, the lack of parachute payments and our current position in the pecking order there is absolutely no way we can do a Fulham or Man City and outclass the league - we are going to have to get good at the ugly side because we aren't going to be a class above everyone else. That isn't doing a Pulis and setting up to be ugly - you can set up to play on the front foot but you still need to win ugly when needs be. The idea we can just need to setup to steamroller teams is just nonsense. |
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Post by peekay67 on Jun 1, 2022 8:34:15 GMT
Choose a system and style of play. Stick to first choice players except for injury and complete lack of form.
The management must trust their style of play. Let other teams worry about us.
The crowd need to get behind the team for the whole game. We know we can inspire the players, so why would we not?
System. Style. Passion.
Oh. And a bit of luck !
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Post by ashleyscfc on Jun 1, 2022 8:52:08 GMT
2 Strikers - Target man and Surridge/Afobe type.
DM - A 6ft 2 plus monster, with good tackling stats and ball retention skills.
Winger - A more physical winger akin to an arnautovic over a michael kightly but we'll see
RB/LB - Still dont understand why we let smith go but alas...anyone will do
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 1, 2022 9:06:10 GMT
"it's the ugly teams that win leagues" What like Man City & Fulham? I'll qualify that - only teams capable of playing ugly win leagues. Both Fulham and Man City ground out results when the pretty stuff wasn't working. Last season we couldn't do that. Given FFP, the lack of parachute payments and our current position in the pecking order there is absolutely no way we can do a Fulham or Man City and outclass the league - we are going to have to get good at the ugly side because we aren't going to be a class above everyone else. That isn't doing a Pulis and setting up to be ugly - you can set up to play on the front foot but you still need to win ugly when needs be. The idea we can just need to setup to steamroller teams is just nonsense. You’re still not addressing the issue that we won ugly on several occasions last season and tried to do it a hell of a lot more and failed. That’s in our make up we can do it but winning by a wide margin is something we don’t seem able to do at all whatever the opposition which suggests to me we’re over concentrating on ugly not the opposite. Nearly all our games being really close whatever the outcome also suggests this. Nearly all our home games being also garbage to watch affirms this. We’re far too ugly when as you’re now suggesting ugly should be a necessary evil. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 13:27:47 GMT
To improve on 14th we need to do , what we did in our promotion season and have three top goalies...Simmo , Russell Holt and Carlo Nash . Sorry but Bonham,birsik and AN Other ( blondy ?) Is no where near that level. We need to stop messing about ,get serious and have 3 top goalies ...like what we did the last time we were promoted
We need to change the way we play , it's too off the cuff (or if you prefer lazy ,make it up as you go along stuff ) . Fulham successfully turned into a championship poor man's Liverpool last season, aiming to suck teams in before quickly laying it off to an overload outwide ...with typically carvalho or Wilson getting themselves free out wide to provide quality deliveries into the box for the likes of mitrovic .
It's a way of playing , we don't have to copy them , but we need a style of play. Making it up as you go along is not going to cut it in the championship
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Post by hyaduck on Jun 5, 2022 13:42:56 GMT
Be nice to start the season off with a new manager!!!!!!
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Post by jebbstuart on Jun 5, 2022 22:13:23 GMT
No disrespect to our present manager but he still learning the ropes of the english league system. He can only build a team within the limits of his budget and to be fair Stoke have too many average championship players on top paying contracts, not all he signed.
I looked at what i saw of Stoke last season and see very little potential in most of the players on the books. Agreed i did not see too many Stoke games but i did see a lot of football last season to benchmark against.
Stoke is and always will be work in progress but the idea is you always move forward and invest in the future team if you stand still everyone else goes past you, we made that mistake a couple of years ago and still recovering and will probably take a few more years to catch up. We need to find a couple of gems if we are to challenge next season other than that mid table same as last win one lose one.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 6, 2022 10:08:44 GMT
No disrespect to our present manager but he still learning the ropes of the english league system. He can only build a team within the limits of his budget and to be fair Stoke have too many average championship players on top paying contracts, not all he signed. I looked at what i saw of Stoke last season and see very little potential in most of the players on the books. Agreed i did not see too many Stoke games but i did see a lot of football last season to benchmark against. Stoke is and always will be work in progress but the idea is you always move forward and invest in the future team if you stand still everyone else goes past you, we made that mistake a couple of years ago and still recovering and will probably take a few more years to catch up. We need to find a couple of gems if we are to challenge next season other than that mid table same as last win one lose one. Stoke have some very decent championship players but also some very big holes in the squad. Whether we fill some of the holes with the right type of player will be the deciding factor in whether we can challenge for promotion though I wouldn’t be confident in the manager sustaining one even with the right tools at his disposal. |
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 6, 2022 12:19:48 GMT
To improve on 14th we need to do , what we did in our promotion season and have three top goalies...Simmo , Russell Holt and Carlo Nash . Sorry but Bonham,birsik and AN Other ( blondy ?) Is no where near that level. We need to stop messing about ,get serious and have 3 top goalies ...like what we did the last time we were promoted We need to change the way we play , it's too off the cuff (or if you prefer lazy ,make it up as you go along stuff ) . Fulham successfully turned into a championship poor man's Liverpool last season, aiming to suck teams in before quickly laying it off to an overload outwide ...with typically carvalho or Wilson getting themselves free out wide to provide quality deliveries into the box for the likes of mitrovic . It's a way of playing , we don't have to copy them , but we need a style of play. Making it up as you go along is not going to cut it in the championship I disagree, I think Bursik will continue to grow and become a very decent goalkeeper for us next season. The difference is that MoN needs to stick to a keeper and not chop and change them around, and this proved so fruitful with Simmo who was brilliant for us. There was a genuine fear factor that certain goalkeepers were being dropped at the drop of a hat, especially as a youngster who needs nurturing not neglecting. Its a new generation that reflects society and they react much more to the olive branch, not the birch for little mistakes. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 6, 2022 13:08:30 GMT
To improve on 14th we need to do , what we did in our promotion season and have three top goalies...Simmo , Russell Holt and Carlo Nash . Sorry but Bonham,birsik and AN Other ( blondy ?) Is no where near that level. We need to stop messing about ,get serious and have 3 top goalies ...like what we did the last time we were promoted We need to change the way we play , it's too off the cuff (or if you prefer lazy ,make it up as you go along stuff ) . Fulham successfully turned into a championship poor man's Liverpool last season, aiming to suck teams in before quickly laying it off to an overload outwide ...with typically carvalho or Wilson getting themselves free out wide to provide quality deliveries into the box for the likes of mitrovic . It's a way of playing , we don't have to copy them , but we need a style of play. Making it up as you go along is not going to cut it in the championship I disagree, I think Bursik will continue to grow and become a very decent goalkeeper for us next season. The difference is that MoN needs to stick to a keeper and not chop and change them around, and this proved so fruitful with Simmo who was brilliant for us. There was a genuine fear factor that certain goalkeepers were being dropped at the drop of a hat, especially as a youngster who needs nurturing not neglecting. Its a new generation that reflects society and they react much more to the olive branch, not the birch for little mistakes. I'd like him to do well but I don't go with all this I can feel it in my water nonsense. His stats need to improve drastically not marginally. I was really surprised how bad they are. |
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Post by robstokie on Jun 6, 2022 18:16:33 GMT
First thing - we need to ditch this Back 3 nonsense - it's so negative, particularly at home, invites teams onto us and costs us real width coming forward as the wing backs can be pinned in by a dynamic winger/full back pairing which then allows the opposition to play in our half and break us down without any outlet for us to relieve pressure through the middle. I would also look to play a more direct and effective game based on territory (percentages) rather than possession to suit what we already have and simplify what we are trying to do, also allowing us to take risks whilst coming forward with a much higher tempo, utilising width and movement off the ball to create spaces and being proactive rather than reactive when in possession.
With regards to recruitement - I think that defensively we have the personnel, if not the right system - as said above I would go back to basics with a flat back 4 with the primary job of defending without any responsibility to try and build from the back (with the addition of a right back and a dependable keeper) and we have players coming forward who certainly have the tools to hurt teams at this level (Tyrese, Jacob, Powell, Vrancic when managed well, Doughty and DWP offer width too - a target man and a right sided winger and I think we are covered) but the issue is midfield - we have finally got the box-to-box powerhouse in Lewis Baker, but we need an out and out ball winner in there, as well as cover in the box to box role (little Joe is not a ball winner for me, plus I think his days are done here - Thompson has been solid in a deeper lying role, but I think we need someone who offers more of a physical presence in there). To address the above, I obviously want us to bring in ready made options with a track record of success at this level who also have time on their side, but, with the implications of Financial Fair Play, I would rather us look towards youth, and look towards younger players who are developing a reputation in league's 1/2 rather than bringing in aging old plodders (Chester, Mikel, Fletcher types) and skimp on paying any fees (which, by the way, would have been more than negated with the signing on fees and higher wages we would have to pay 'names' over younger, hungrier players)
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Jun 6, 2022 20:09:38 GMT
Yeah that is not an ambitious enough aspiration for me. It's the sort of thing you settle for reluctantly when the original target becomes unobtainable. Maybe I'm in a small minority who'd find the play offs quite underwhelming. Agree. "Backing into" the playoffs isn't my idea of "total success either.  If we make the Play Offs next season, under this manager, and with the current available squad, plus whatever he deems suitable additions, I'll bare my arse in Burton's window. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 7, 2022 6:15:32 GMT
I'll qualify that - only teams capable of playing ugly win leagues. Both Fulham and Man City ground out results when the pretty stuff wasn't working. Last season we couldn't do that. Given FFP, the lack of parachute payments and our current position in the pecking order there is absolutely no way we can do a Fulham or Man City and outclass the league - we are going to have to get good at the ugly side because we aren't going to be a class above everyone else. That isn't doing a Pulis and setting up to be ugly - you can set up to play on the front foot but you still need to win ugly when needs be. The idea we can just need to setup to steamroller teams is just nonsense. You’re still not addressing the issue that we won ugly on several occasions last season and tried to do it a hell of a lot more and failed. That’s in our make up we can do it but winning by a wide margin is something we don’t seem able to do at all whatever the opposition which suggests to me we’re over concentrating on ugly not the opposite. Nearly all our games being really close whatever the outcome also suggests this. Nearly all our home games being also garbage to watch affirms this. We’re far too ugly when as you’re now suggesting ugly should be a necessary evil. We were not setup to play ugly defensive football last season. We tried to play a patient passing game and take the game to the opposition - the problem was we didn't play it well enough and/or the opposition sussed us out and stifled our game plan. What we weren't able to do was nick results when what were trying to do wasn't working. O'Neill has his faults but setting up to specifically only win ugly isn't one of them. That's what Pulis did - and he was very good at at. The football under Pulis was deliberately turgid - under O'Neill it has been poor at times but not as a deliberate consequence of the way we've tried to play. What you seem to be advocating is just going for it and damn the consequences. Do that and we will get crucified in this league - we are nowhere near capable of simply outclassing the league and the only time that will ever be an option is if we go up, come back down and retain a core of players who are a class above what we can attract as a Championship side. |
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Post by thevoid on Jun 7, 2022 6:30:52 GMT
You’re still not addressing the issue that we won ugly on several occasions last season and tried to do it a hell of a lot more and failed. That’s in our make up we can do it but winning by a wide margin is something we don’t seem able to do at all whatever the opposition which suggests to me we’re over concentrating on ugly not the opposite. Nearly all our games being really close whatever the outcome also suggests this. Nearly all our home games being also garbage to watch affirms this. We’re far too ugly when as you’re now suggesting ugly should be a necessary evil. We were not setup to play ugly defensive football last season. We tried to play a patient passing game and take the game to the opposition - the problem was we didn't play it well enough and/or the opposition sussed us out and stifled our game plan. What we weren't able to do was nick results when what were trying to do wasn't working. O'Neill has his faults but setting up to specifically only win ugly isn't one of them. That's what Pulis did - and he was very good at at. The football under Pulis was deliberately turgid - under O'Neill it has been poor at times but not as a deliberate consequence of the way we've tried to play. What you seem to be advocating is just going for it and damn the consequences. Do that and we will get crucified in this league - we are nowhere near capable of simply outclassing the league and the only time that will ever be an option is if we go up, come back down and retain a core of players who are a class above what we can attract as a Championship side. Or you have a coherent transfer strategy, like Brentford do. |
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Post by potterburt on Jun 7, 2022 7:10:19 GMT
Agree. "Backing into" the playoffs isn't my idea of "total success either.  If we make the Play Offs next season, under this manager, and with the current available squad, plus whatever he deems suitable additions, I'll bare my arse in Burton's window. Where’s the risk in that?!? All the stores closed last year so any Burton’s window you found would be covered up 😉 |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 8:03:21 GMT
You’re still not addressing the issue that we won ugly on several occasions last season and tried to do it a hell of a lot more and failed. That’s in our make up we can do it but winning by a wide margin is something we don’t seem able to do at all whatever the opposition which suggests to me we’re over concentrating on ugly not the opposite. Nearly all our games being really close whatever the outcome also suggests this. Nearly all our home games being also garbage to watch affirms this. We’re far too ugly when as you’re now suggesting ugly should be a necessary evil. We were not setup to play ugly defensive football last season. We tried to play a patient passing game and take the game to the opposition - the problem was we didn't play it well enough and/or the opposition sussed us out and stifled our game plan. What we weren't able to do was nick results when what were trying to do wasn't working. O'Neill has his faults but setting up to specifically only win ugly isn't one of them. That's what Pulis did - and he was very good at at. The football under Pulis was deliberately turgid - under O'Neill it has been poor at times but not as a deliberate consequence of the way we've tried to play. What you seem to be advocating is just going for it and damn the consequences. Do that and we will get crucified in this league - we are nowhere near capable of simply outclassing the league and the only time that will ever be an option is if we go up, come back down and retain a core of players who are a class above what we can attract as a Championship side. You seem to think this league is a lot better than I do. I didn’t see any teams last season that were simply too good to put to the sword. I did miss a few games including Fulham don’t think any of the others I missed were teams anyone would consider being simply too good to be steamrollered. You also seem to interpret what I advocate to mean every game when my gripe is the approach to home games, he can play it as cagey as he likes away . I agree with his thinking that a point is not a disaster in any away game plus if I think it’s shit I can just turn it off. The approach at home is too timid, too patient and just doesn’t seem to accept the reality is that the onus is on the home side to provide the urgency and tempo to the game because guess what most of the other managers consider a point away anywhere to be no disaster. You obviously have a similar idea to MON of what taking the game to the opposition looks like because that’s not how I’d describe our home games. I’d more describe them as slow, lacking urgency, lacking the guts to commit players forward in sufficient numbers early, players lacking bravery on the ball, which he kept moaning about but seemed completely unable to do anything about. In short just because you’re a passing team not an agricultural one doesn’t mean it’s not ugly, unadventurous, slow, boring shite. |
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Jun 7, 2022 14:16:10 GMT
If we make the Play Offs next season, under this manager, and with the current available squad, plus whatever he deems suitable additions, I'll bare my arse in Burton's window. Where’s the risk in that?!? All the stores closed last year so any Burton’s window you found would be covered up 😉 You swine!! 😉 |
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 11, 2022 14:13:07 GMT
Where’s the risk in that?!? All the stores closed last year so any Burton’s window you found would be covered up 😉 You swine!! 😉 Admit it… you were talking about Deon’s window weren’t you… 😜 |
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