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Post by boskampsflaps on May 8, 2022 15:00:47 GMT
He’s not capable of the adjustments or the coaching needed to do it. The build up play is slow and ponderous, our football is played almost entirely in front of defences, our set pieces are woeful, the throw ins go to the opposition 80% of the time and we almost inevitably defend like the keystone cops. Every team has injuries. There were many on here last season complaining that clucas being injured had been a major reason for our downfall. Let that sink in a while. Clucas….. There is absolutely no reason to believe he will do anything different next season. The football he produces is slow, boring and entirely predictable. Even when we win it’s unconvincing at best bar the odd performance. Time is up. This just makes no sense to me. Why should it turn toxic? We are not a big club, we’re a medium size club and we’re not far off where we should be in terms of league position. Sure, if we get it right we should be pushing for promotion but I think unrealistic expectations are what’s driving your toxicity. It’s like expecting to come home to Claudia Schiffer and then getting angry it’s just the missus. I think its more than fair for fans to want to be at least entertained on a match day. As well as seeing some sort of direction would be good, at the moment it feels like MON doesn't have a clue where he wants to go or how to solve the glaring problems the squad/setup/team has, he tried it in Jan and it got worse.
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Post by biddulphchav on May 8, 2022 15:18:33 GMT
This just makes no sense to me. Why should it turn toxic? We are not a big club, we’re a medium size club and we’re not far off where we should be in terms of league position. Sure, if we get it right we should be pushing for promotion but I think unrealistic expectations are what’s driving your toxicity. It’s like expecting to come home to Claudia Schiffer and then getting angry it’s just the missus. I think its more than fair for fans to want to be at least entertained on a match day. As well as seeing some sort of direction would be good, at the moment it feels like MON doesn't have a clue where he wants to go or how to solve the glaring problems the squad/setup/team has, he tried it in Jan and it got worse. The entertainment stuff is fair enough, I agree it’s been boring at times. I don’t think it’s that boring that it should turn toxic, and I also don’t think we should be expecting to be top 3-4 and therefore getting angry when we don’t achieve it. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be aiming for that, and we can be disappointed it hasn’t happened, but is it cause for drastic change? It can turn the other way just as easily, if not more so, with the wrong manager in charge. I reckon we should give him more time and only make the change when there is someone who really stands out available.
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Post by bagnallboothen on May 8, 2022 15:20:14 GMT
He’s not capable of the adjustments or the coaching needed to do it. The build up play is slow and ponderous, our football is played almost entirely in front of defences, our set pieces are woeful, the throw ins go to the opposition 80% of the time and we almost inevitably defend like the keystone cops. Every team has injuries. There were many on here last season complaining that clucas being injured had been a major reason for our downfall. Let that sink in a while. Clucas….. There is absolutely no reason to believe he will do anything different next season. The football he produces is slow, boring and entirely predictable. Even when we win it’s unconvincing at best bar the odd performance. Time is up. This just makes no sense to me. Why should it turn toxic? We are not a big club, we’re a medium size club and we’re not far off where we should be in terms of league position. Sure, if we get it right we should be pushing for promotion but I think unrealistic expectations are what’s driving your toxicity. It’s like expecting to come home to Claudia Schiffer and then getting angry it’s just the missus. I don't think I've ever read so much shit in all my life
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 8, 2022 15:20:24 GMT
I think its more than fair for fans to want to be at least entertained on a match day. As well as seeing some sort of direction would be good, at the moment it feels like MON doesn't have a clue where he wants to go or how to solve the glaring problems the squad/setup/team has, he tried it in Jan and it got worse. The entertainment stuff is fair enough, I agree it’s been boring at times. I don’t think it’s that boring that it should turn toxic, and I also don’t think we should be expecting to be top 3-4 and therefore getting angry when we don’t achieve it. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be aiming for that, and we can be disappointed it hasn’t happened, but is it cause for drastic change? It can turn the other way just as easily, if not more so, with the wrong manager in charge. I reckon we should give him more time and only make the change when there is someone who really stands out available. Removing an under performing manager that has no clear idea of how he's going to move the club forward despite being here for some time doesn't seem very drastic to me.
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Post by biddulphchav on May 8, 2022 15:22:02 GMT
This just makes no sense to me. Why should it turn toxic? We are not a big club, we’re a medium size club and we’re not far off where we should be in terms of league position. Sure, if we get it right we should be pushing for promotion but I think unrealistic expectations are what’s driving your toxicity. It’s like expecting to come home to Claudia Schiffer and then getting angry it’s just the missus. Why is it unrealistic when much smaller clubs than us have had much better seasons? Well by definition those are anomalies, aren’t they? If they weren’t they’d be big clubs, wouldn’t they? I think it averages out over time? I can understand apathy, as we want some entertainment or excitement, but a toxic angry atmosphere seems at odds with expected performance.
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Post by biddulphchav on May 8, 2022 15:25:57 GMT
The entertainment stuff is fair enough, I agree it’s been boring at times. I don’t think it’s that boring that it should turn toxic, and I also don’t think we should be expecting to be top 3-4 and therefore getting angry when we don’t achieve it. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be aiming for that, and we can be disappointed it hasn’t happened, but is it cause for drastic change? It can turn the other way just as easily, if not more so, with the wrong manager in charge. I reckon we should give him more time and only make the change when there is someone who really stands out available. Removing an under performing manager that has no clear idea of how he's going to move the club forward despite being here for some time doesn't seem very drastic to me. Who defines expected performance, I don’t think he’s underperformed? Base on our transfer and wage budgets, where should we be? Whether or not he has an idea on how to move forward next season and beyond is a point of speculation, some people think he does.
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Post by biddulphchav on May 8, 2022 15:26:25 GMT
This just makes no sense to me. Why should it turn toxic? We are not a big club, we’re a medium size club and we’re not far off where we should be in terms of league position. Sure, if we get it right we should be pushing for promotion but I think unrealistic expectations are what’s driving your toxicity. It’s like expecting to come home to Claudia Schiffer and then getting angry it’s just the missus. I don't think I've ever read so much shit in all my life Great contribution 🙄
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 8, 2022 15:27:03 GMT
Why is it unrealistic when much smaller clubs than us have had much better seasons? Well by definition those are anomalies, aren’t they? If they weren’t they’d be big clubs, wouldn’t they? I think it averages out over time? I can understand apathy, as we want some entertainment or excitement, but a toxic angry atmosphere seems at odds with expected performance. It’s not clear at this point if they are or not, is it? If those clubs continue to recruit savvily I don’t see why they couldn’t have another good couple of seasons at least in their current cycle? I don’t think it was unrealistic to think we could have improved on our performance from last season. Toxic angry atmosphere hasn’t really happened despite it threatening to at one point, but it’s as much to do with the inept, anaemic performances as anything. Many more of those and patience will run out pretty quickly.
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Post by bagnallboothen on May 8, 2022 15:29:46 GMT
I don't think I've ever read so much shit in all my life Great contribution 🙄 Almost as insightful as we should be 14th in that league. It didn't warrant much more of a response.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 8, 2022 15:30:01 GMT
Removing an under performing manager that has no clear idea of how he's going to move the club forward despite being here for some time doesn't seem very drastic to me. Who defines expected performance, I don’t think he’s underperformed? Base on our transfer and wage budgets, where should we be? Whether or not he has an idea on how to move forward next season and beyond is a point of speculation, some people think he does. He’s obviously keeping it a closely guarded secret then. There certainly aren’t any signs he’s got any idea how to produce a team that will score enough goals for a promotion push.
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Post by scfc75 on May 8, 2022 15:35:07 GMT
Nobody mentioned Air of Apathy supporting WoT yet?
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Post by a on May 8, 2022 15:50:41 GMT
MON was brought in to stave off relegation after the disastrous Mad Nathan and Rowett debacles. He achieved this and was then tasked with off loading our players still on premier wages and those signed by Rowett also on high wages. To do this he has brought in youngsters, loanees and older heads in order to reduce our wage bill. It’s been a mixture of success and failures in terms of doing this but has left us with some very mediocre players not helped of course by a string of injuries to key players. So now the slate is relatively clean and I think fans need to get behind him over the close season and hopefully, with some decent signings over the summer and offloading of players not up to what is required, next season could see a step change in performance and us challenging for play offs. Booing individual players on the pitch really isn’t helping. I do recall reading on here after MON was appointed that it would take 4-5 seasons to properly turn things around given the mess we were in. Well we’re 3 seasons in and in my opinion going in the right direction be it slowly. Agree with this 100%. Not sure where people expect us to be. Look at Jones for example, his record here was abysmal because we were a basket case at the time, and for a while afterwards - so last season was on par performance. This season we’ve not done as well as we could have, that’s fair I think. Unless there is someone out there who is simply too good for us to miss the opportunity of bringing in (I can’t think of a single stand out manager who fits the bill and we don’t have the cash to bring in a huge name like Benitez) I think we should back the manager, actually think he’s done quite well to turn the club around, we were well on our way to doing a Sunderland before he came in. We should be higher than 14th. Our wage bill alone should indicate the level of underperforming. The size of the club isn’t really relevant nowadays. Look at teams like Burnley, Bournemouth, Fulham, Luton, Huddersfield, all outperforming us. Some higher spend, some lower. As posted on Twitter, every club relegated with it after us has done more since than we have. We need to set higher expectations and lose the little old stoke mentality.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 8, 2022 16:27:40 GMT
Removing an under performing manager that has no clear idea of how he's going to move the club forward despite being here for some time doesn't seem very drastic to me. Who defines expected performance, I don’t think he’s underperformed? Base on our transfer and wage budgets, where should we be? Whether or not he has an idea on how to move forward next season and beyond is a point of speculation, some people think he does.What has made them think that though, nothing on the pitch suggests he has an idea, the squad itself goes against him having much of an idea either. Our transfer/wage budgets are still quite high for this league outside of the parachute teams so I'm sure you're not suggesting we've ended up about where our budgets should have us.
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Post by anewman on May 8, 2022 16:32:41 GMT
Everything about the club reeks of apathy - it's not just the players... (although when you look around the stands so many people are on their phones - i assume out of boredom at the non-descript, uninspiring football on offer)
As someone has pointed out above even the stretcher team looked lethargic.
There are so many pointers as to the malaise of the club.
The PA that you cannot hear: -Yesterday there was an interview with Andy Griffin about his goal v coventry which they played music over. -There was then an interview with a girl pitchside who you couldn't hear -Then at half time Andy Holmes and Gareth Owen interviewed - guess what couldn't hear it
The catering is cr*p. I got a pie yesterday (awful) and all the fork dispensers full of rubbish no forks (does no-one check?)
Adverts in the bogs are 2-3 years old. Does no one think - i know lets try and sell some advertising space?
The presentation to Jacob Brown for player of year was a farce.
Everything is being run with a small time / tin pot mentality. This is a multi-million pound football club business and better running of it would generate more income better for FFP etc.
It all just seems to be "that'll do" rather than, "how can we do things better?"
Final moan about commercial ineptitude at the club - my son and I am not renewing (my sons team have entered into JPL league next season which is on a Saturday so won't be able to make many games). A decently run commercial dept would have been sending me (and any other slow/non-renewer's) constant reminders about don't forget to buy 22/23 season ticket. We've had nothing. No email etc (and it's the same with other friends i know who haven't renewed). No customer engagement...
The increasing numbers of seats that are empty in the padded seats for the Waddo suite, and empty seats around the stadium should be ringing massive alarm bells to the board / owners - but they don't seem to be?
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Post by neddy on May 8, 2022 16:44:04 GMT
Everything about the club reeks of apathy - it's not just the players... (although when you look around the stands so many people are on their phones - i assume out of boredom at the non-descript, uninspiring football on offer) As someone has pointed out above even the stretcher team looked lethargic. There are so many pointers as to the malaise of the club. The PA that you cannot hear: -Yesterday there was an interview with Andy Griffin about his goal v coventry which they played music over. -There was then an interview with a girl pitchside who you couldn't hear -Then at half time Andy Holmes and Gareth Owen interviewed - guess what couldn't hear it The catering is cr*p. I got a pie yesterday (awful) and all the fork dispensers full of rubbish no forks (does no-one check?) Adverts in the bogs are 2-3 years old. Does no one think - i know lets try and sell some advertising space? The presentation to Jacob Brown for player of year was a farce. Everything is being run with a small time / tin pot mentality. This is a multi-million pound football club business and better running of it would generate more income better for FFP etc. It all just seems to be "that'll do" rather than, "how can we do things better?" Final moan about commercial ineptitude at the club - my son and I am not renewing (my sons team have entered into JPL league next season which is on a Saturday so won't be able to make many games). A decently run commercial dept would have been sending me (and any other slow/non-renewer's) constant reminders about don't forget to buy 22/23 season ticket. We've had nothing. No email etc (and it's the same with other friends i know who haven't renewed). No customer engagement... The increasing numbers of seats that are empty in the padded seats for the Waddo suite, and empty seats around the stadium should be ringing massive alarm bells to the board / owners - but they don't seem to be? Great post and completely agree! Supporters council should arrange to meet the new coo and go through those points!
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Post by canadianmoose on May 8, 2022 16:50:32 GMT
He’s not capable of the adjustments or the coaching needed to do it. The build up play is slow and ponderous, our football is played almost entirely in front of defences, our set pieces are woeful, the throw ins go to the opposition 80% of the time and we almost inevitably defend like the keystone cops. Every team has injuries. There were many on here last season complaining that clucas being injured had been a major reason for our downfall. Let that sink in a while. Clucas….. There is absolutely no reason to believe he will do anything different next season. The football he produces is slow, boring and entirely predictable. Even when we win it’s unconvincing at best bar the odd performance. Time is up. This just makes no sense to me. Why should it turn toxic? We are not a big club, we’re a medium size club and we’re not far off where we should be in terms of league position. Sure, if we get it right we should be pushing for promotion but I think unrealistic expectations are what’s driving your toxicity. It’s like expecting to come home to Claudia Schiffer and then getting angry it’s just the missus. You keep mentioning the word “toxic” after quoting me and not once did I use the word. Please stop.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 8, 2022 16:53:28 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA?
Do they ever check it's functioning all right?
All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera.
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Post by neddy on May 8, 2022 16:55:32 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA? Do they ever check it's functioning all right? All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera. I think they are due to have a bash at fixing it close season but in answer to your question no I can’t hear it…
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Post by wakeypotter on May 8, 2022 16:56:21 GMT
MON was brought in to stave off relegation after the disastrous Mad Nathan and Rowett debacles. He achieved this and was then tasked with off loading our players still on premier wages and those signed by Rowett also on high wages. To do this he has brought in youngsters, loanees and older heads in order to reduce our wage bill. It’s been a mixture of success and failures in terms of doing this but has left us with some very mediocre players not helped of course by a string of injuries to key players. So now the slate is relatively clean and I think fans need to get behind him over the close season and hopefully, with some decent signings over the summer and offloading of players not up to what is required, next season could see a step change in performance and us challenging for play offs. Booing individual players on the pitch really isn’t helping. I do recall reading on here after MON was appointed that it would take 4-5 seasons to properly turn things around given the mess we were in. Well we’re 3 seasons in and in my opinion going in the right direction be it slowly. Agree with this 100%. Not sure where people expect us to be. Look at Jones for example, his record here was abysmal because we were a basket case at the time, and for a while afterwards - so last season was on par performance. This season we’ve not done as well as we could have, that’s fair I think. Unless there is someone out there who is simply too good for us to miss the opportunity of bringing in (I can’t think of a single stand out manager who fits the bill and we don’t have the cash to bring in a huge name like Benitez) I think we should back the manager, actually think he’s done quite well to turn the club around, we were well on our way to doing a Sunderland before he came in. Every other club that comes down from the prem challenges for promotion. That’s where I expect us to be
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 16:58:51 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA? Do they ever check it's functioning all right? All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera. I was on the canal by the incinerator when they announced the bloke from Ukraine was at the game and made him suffer some more. It was clear as a bell there 😂
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Post by wakefieldstokie on May 8, 2022 17:05:54 GMT
Yep bang on. I expect very little, a few signings 2-3 a bit of hope followed by a good run, optimism then bang average from Jan onwards.
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Post by J-Roar on May 8, 2022 17:10:51 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA? Do they ever check it's functioning all right? All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera. I think they are due to have a bash at fixing it close season but in answer to your question no I can’t hear it… They've not managed to fix it in 20 years so good luck with that.
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Post by J-Roar on May 8, 2022 17:16:37 GMT
Everything about the club reeks of apathy - it's not just the players... (although when you look around the stands so many people are on their phones - i assume out of boredom at the non-descript, uninspiring football on offer) As someone has pointed out above even the stretcher team looked lethargic. There are so many pointers as to the malaise of the club. The PA that you cannot hear: -Yesterday there was an interview with Andy Griffin about his goal v coventry which they played music over. -There was then an interview with a girl pitchside who you couldn't hear -Then at half time Andy Holmes and Gareth Owen interviewed - guess what couldn't hear it The catering is cr*p. I got a pie yesterday (awful) and all the fork dispensers full of rubbish no forks (does no-one check?) Adverts in the bogs are 2-3 years old. Does no one think - i know lets try and sell some advertising space? The presentation to Jacob Brown for player of year was a farce. Everything is being run with a small time / tin pot mentality. This is a multi-million pound football club business and better running of it would generate more income better for FFP etc. It all just seems to be "that'll do" rather than, "how can we do things better?" Final moan about commercial ineptitude at the club - my son and I am not renewing (my sons team have entered into JPL league next season which is on a Saturday so won't be able to make many games). A decently run commercial dept would have been sending me (and any other slow/non-renewer's) constant reminders about don't forget to buy 22/23 season ticket. We've had nothing. No email etc (and it's the same with other friends i know who haven't renewed). No customer engagement... The increasing numbers of seats that are empty in the padded seats for the Waddo suite, and empty seats around the stadium should be ringing massive alarm bells to the board / owners - but they don't seem to be? They don't know how to run things either on or off the pitch. The chairman has been consigned to running the football club - presumably so he can't fuck up anything in the real business. He's now proven he can't make a decent fist of that either. Must be quite humiliating for him and ram home that he's the luckiest billionaire alive.
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Post by westlandstokie on May 8, 2022 18:40:47 GMT
It’ll be interesting to know the season ticket sales, there was a lot of empty seats yesterday. And not really a good reason for it. And not really a good reason for it…… like nothing to play for, previous crap home performances, several players likely to leave and others not really giving a toss, nice weather and people finding other things to do that they my find more enjoyable. That said, I was there ( fuck knows why) but on reflection my time would’ve been better spent on a nice walk, or a day out. What was your really good reason for being there? My reason for being there was I’ve missed quite a few games this season due to a big knee surgery…and it’s a chance to catch up with a mate I’ve known since I was 16 (I’m 58 now). We were talking after the game about what we would give to be watching Bojan, Shaq and Arnie again…it feels like a lifetime ago.
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Post by felonious on May 8, 2022 18:50:57 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA? Do they ever check it's functioning all right? All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera. I was on the canal by the incinerator when they announced the bloke from Ukraine was at the game and made him suffer some more. It was clear as a bell there 😂 Bloody hell you left early yesterday
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Post by iamstokie on May 8, 2022 18:52:07 GMT
Only the club can change that either by replacing the manager with someone who we can agree (as much as we can agree) is a decent manager That would see enthusiasm return for the new season Or somehow O'Neill proves us all wrong and improves significantly, in this scenario it would be months into the season before supporter enthusiasm returned and even then there would be doubts due to the drop off second half of both of the last two seasons O'Neill would have to rely confound us critics right through next season to get most critics back on board A five goal win on day 1 of the new season would change that despondency in 90 minutes flat and get everyone behind the team. Granted not very likely, but you can't say it won't happen. No it wouldn’t , only an idiot would judge the team on one performance……. Oh hang on 🙄🤣😂
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Post by heworksardtho on May 8, 2022 18:53:18 GMT
And not really a good reason for it…… like nothing to play for, previous crap home performances, several players likely to leave and others not really giving a toss, nice weather and people finding other things to do that they my find more enjoyable. That said, I was there ( fuck knows why) but on reflection my time would’ve been better spent on a nice walk, or a day out. What was your really good reason for being there? My reason for being there was I’ve missed quite a few games this season due to a big knee surgery…and it’s a chance to catch up with a mate I’ve known since I was 16 (I’m 58 now). We were talking after the game about what we would give to be watching Bojan, Shaq and Arnie again…it feels like a lifetime ago. Hope the knee improves, and I’m sure you could manage 45 mins more than Fletcher 😉👍
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Post by felonious on May 8, 2022 18:55:25 GMT
And not really a good reason for it…… like nothing to play for, previous crap home performances, several players likely to leave and others not really giving a toss, nice weather and people finding other things to do that they my find more enjoyable. That said, I was there ( fuck knows why) but on reflection my time would’ve been better spent on a nice walk, or a day out. What was your really good reason for being there? My reason for being there was I’ve missed quite a few games this season due to a big knee surgery…and it’s a chance to catch up with a mate I’ve known since I was 16 (I’m 58 now). We were talking after the game about what we would give to be watching Bojan, Shaq and Arnie again…it feels like a lifetime ago. The three guys I used to sit with pre Covid haven't renewed. I sit with my lad and his mate. His mate went yesterday but hadn't bothered for the previous 5 matches. They both missed the equaliser because they needed a drink just to face the second half
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Post by iamstokie on May 8, 2022 18:55:28 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA? Do they ever check it's functioning all right? All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera. I think they are due to have a bash at fixing it close season but in answer to your question no I can’t hear it… I’ve lost count how many times the club have announced they’re upgrading the tannoy system 😁😂
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2022 19:31:00 GMT
Can anyone, anywhere in the ground, ever hear a word from the PA? Do they ever check it's functioning all right? All I see is the smiling face on the video screen, and lips appear to be moving and creating some kind of noise - but they could just as well be speaking Japanese or performing a rock opera. I think they are due to have a bash at fixing it close season but in answer to your question no I can’t hear it… Think I read somewhere that part of this big refurbishment is a new pa system?
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