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Post by suck_the_mop. on May 5, 2022 18:04:23 GMT
Spot on mate local elections are like a dick measuring contest these days instead of working together for local communities, my vote card has already gone in the bin I don’t think many people care tbh, they’re all full of shut.. Dont see what difference it makes who gets in, they just lie once they get in anyway who actually cares at local level? its all knobheads wanting too have there name in lights these days after years of working for a town council i saw a nasty swing from the old guard who may have been elected under a banner of labour/tory/lib dem etc but they all worked in a bi partisan way for the good of the town and saw it as civic duty to what we have now which is attention seeking back stabbing tossers who want newspaper headlines in the local rag, party lines are firmly drawn now and nothing gets done or achieved its a shambles and at a local level party allegiance shouldn't be a thing Are you guys talking about Borough or Town Councillors ? My sister is a Borough councillor and works very hard for the local community, she doesn't have to give the many many hours of her time up for free to help local residents from junior parkrun on Sunday mornings to organising trips to the seaside for OAPS, organising litter picking groups, helping veterans and the memorial garden, organising the borough Poppy appeal distribution, etc etc Do you guys volunteer for anything ? No disrespect to your sister who i am sure does a sterling job, i say dick measuring contest because it always becomes about government in charge instead of local government, happened quite a few times the councillors who have been in power and doing good things locally but because they are same as those in power at Westminster who are not doing so well they get voted out in a protest vote then everything has to be reset again and not always for the good of the community, it's happened with both the major parties and will no doubt happen again in some places today.
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 6, 2022 6:46:12 GMT
What we've learned so far.
Not a hope in hell that the Tories get an overall majority in the next election under Johnson
Not a hope in hell that Labour get an overall majority in the next election under Starmer
Who blinks first? Will either of them blink? Does anybody care!
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2022 7:20:20 GMT
What we've learned so far. Not a hope in hell that the Tories get an overall majority in the next election under Johnson Not a hope in hell that Labour get an overall majority in the next election under Starmer Who blinks first? Will either of them blink? Does anybody care It’s tough to extrapolate GE outcomes from local elections. Let’s remember both Hague and Howard gave Blair a good kicking in local elections but were trounced when the General Election came about. That said, Johnson is at most risk. If the Tories think his leadership will mean they lose the next election there’s a good chance he will be punted. Let’s see how that plays out today. I suspect he will stick around though… like a bad smell. Starmer is pretty safe. His problem isn’t personal, it’s the political dynamics he is up against specifically the likelihood that he will need to form a coalition government with the SNP which is a dynamic that could well work against him in lots of marginals.
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Post by lordb on May 6, 2022 7:22:06 GMT
What we've learned so far. Not a hope in hell that the Tories get an overall majority in the next election under Johnson Not a hope in hell that Labour get an overall majority in the next election under Starmer Who blinks first? Will either of them blink? Does anybody care It’s tough to extrapolate GE outcomes from local elections. Let’s remember both Hague and Howard gave Blair a good kicking in local elections but were trounced when the General Election came about. That said, Johnson is at most risk. If the Tories think his leadership will mean they lose the next election there’s a good chance he will be punted. Let’s see how that plays out today. I suspect he will stick around though… like a bad smell. Starmer is pretty safe. His problem isn’t personal, it’s the political dynamics he is up against specifically the likelihood that he will need to form a coalition government with the SNP which is a dynamic that could well work against him in lots of marginals. Will party gate still be in the forefront of voters minds at the GE in two years time?
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Post by lordb on May 6, 2022 7:29:32 GMT
Concern for Labour is being seen as a London party
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 6, 2022 7:37:57 GMT
It’s tough to extrapolate GE outcomes from local elections. Let’s remember both Hague and Howard gave Blair a good kicking in local elections but were trounced when the General Election came about. That said, Johnson is at most risk. If the Tories think his leadership will mean they lose the next election there’s a good chance he will be punted. Let’s see how that plays out today. I suspect he will stick around though… like a bad smell. Starmer is pretty safe. His problem isn’t personal, it’s the political dynamics he is up against specifically the likelihood that he will need to form a coalition government with the SNP which is a dynamic that could well work against him in lots of marginals. Will party gate still be in the forefront of voters minds at the GE in two years time? It won't be in 2 weeks time never mind 2 years............
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2022 8:09:27 GMT
Will party gate still be in the forefront of voters minds at the GE in two years time? It won't be in 2 weeks time never mind 2 years............ I think that’s already run it’s course. The question is, will Johnson keep shooting himself in the foot and keep providing ammunition for his critics that argue he is an incompetent leader. Labour know that Tory’s pride themselves on competence (or at least the impression of competence or, maybe more accurately, the impression of relative competence compared to their opponents). If that competence is seen as bogus, as happened under Major, their support will leave them. I’ve no doubt Johnson will keep fucking up. Partly because everyone does and the higher up you are the bigger those fuck ups can be, but also because he has so many unnecessary fucks up caused by him. The further question then is whether those fucks up prove decisive come a general election.
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2022 8:16:48 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 6, 2022 8:16:51 GMT
It won't be in 2 weeks time never mind 2 years............ I think that’s already run it’s course. The question is, will Johnson keep shooting himself in the foot and keep providing ammunition for his critics that argue he is an incompetent leader. Labour know that Tory’s pride themselves on competence (or at least the impression of competence or, maybe more accurately, the impression of relative competence compared to their opponents). If that competence is seen as bogus, as happened under Major, their support will leave them. I’ve no doubt Johnson will keep fucking up. Partly because everyone does and the higher up you are the bigger those fuck ups can be, but also because he has so many unnecessary fucks up caused by him. The further question then is whether those fucks up prove decisive come a general election. If there are more scandals (not sure why have put if) then psrtygate will still play as part of a running total
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2022 8:18:28 GMT
I think that’s already run it’s course. The question is, will Johnson keep shooting himself in the foot and keep providing ammunition for his critics that argue he is an incompetent leader. Labour know that Tory’s pride themselves on competence (or at least the impression of competence or, maybe more accurately, the impression of relative competence compared to their opponents). If that competence is seen as bogus, as happened under Major, their support will leave them. I’ve no doubt Johnson will keep fucking up. Partly because everyone does and the higher up you are the bigger those fuck ups can be, but also because he has so many unnecessary fucks up caused by him. The further question then is whether those fucks up prove decisive come a general election. If there are more scandals (not sure why have put if) then psrtygate will still play as part of a running total Yeah. I agree. It’s the cumulative effect. The question is does that running total get to a big enough total.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 6, 2022 8:28:31 GMT
It won't be in 2 weeks time never mind 2 years............ I think that’s already run it’s course. The question is, will Johnson keep shooting himself in the foot and keep providing ammunition for his critics that argue he is an incompetent leader. Labour know that Tory’s pride themselves on competence (or at least the impression of competence or, maybe more accurately, the impression of relative competence compared to their opponents). If that competence is seen as bogus, as happened under Major, their support will leave them. I’ve no doubt Johnson will keep fucking up. Partly because everyone does and the higher up you are the bigger those fuck ups can be, but also because he has so many unnecessary fucks up caused by him. The further question then is whether those fucks up prove decisive come a general election. I think the only issue for the Tories between now and the next election is finding a window of opportunity to replace Johnson with the least negative impact. And then replacing him with a candidate free from the stench of his tenure. Then barring any scandals or disasters they will rise again in the polls. Labour's only hope is if Johnson sticks around........
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2022 8:36:30 GMT
I think that’s already run it’s course. The question is, will Johnson keep shooting himself in the foot and keep providing ammunition for his critics that argue he is an incompetent leader. Labour know that Tory’s pride themselves on competence (or at least the impression of competence or, maybe more accurately, the impression of relative competence compared to their opponents). If that competence is seen as bogus, as happened under Major, their support will leave them. I’ve no doubt Johnson will keep fucking up. Partly because everyone does and the higher up you are the bigger those fuck ups can be, but also because he has so many unnecessary fucks up caused by him. The further question then is whether those fucks up prove decisive come a general election. I think the only issue for the Tories between now and the next election is finding a window of opportunity to replace Johnson with the least negative impact. And then replacing him with a candidate free from the stench of his tenure. Then barring any scandals or disasters they will rise again in the polls. Labour's only hope is if Johnson sticks around........ Agree 100%. Btw, yesterday I did something I’ve never done before. I spoiled my vote. Not one of the parties deserved my endorsement.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 6, 2022 8:36:31 GMT
I think that’s already run it’s course. The question is, will Johnson keep shooting himself in the foot and keep providing ammunition for his critics that argue he is an incompetent leader. Labour know that Tory’s pride themselves on competence (or at least the impression of competence or, maybe more accurately, the impression of relative competence compared to their opponents). If that competence is seen as bogus, as happened under Major, their support will leave them. I’ve no doubt Johnson will keep fucking up. Partly because everyone does and the higher up you are the bigger those fuck ups can be, but also because he has so many unnecessary fucks up caused by him. The further question then is whether those fucks up prove decisive come a general election. I think the only issue for the Tories between now and the next election is finding a window of opportunity to replace Johnson with the least negative impact. And then replacing him with a candidate free from the stench of his tenure. Then barring any scandals or disasters they will rise again in the polls. Labour's only hope is if Johnson sticks around........ That's a fair analysis, but is he really that toxic? In 'normal' parliamentary terms, absolutely so, but he's not a normal politician in the same way that Trump isn't a normal politician. Voters seem not to care about what Johnson does in ways that wouldn't apply to anyone else. I keep hearing rumours that the eventual publication of the Sue Gray report will be so excoriating that he'll have to go. Will he? Really? After all that he's survived so far? I wouldn't bank on it. I think Johnson's biggest problem is that people might simply get fed up with the constant car crash that is his UK government, on top of a cost of living crisis, record recent inflation and what appears to be impending recession. Throw in distance from Brexit (he'll still have some goodwill in the bank from that from some quarters at present) and people might want change. I suspect a hung parliament is the best Labour can hope for. Very few parties overturn an 80 seat majority in one go.
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2022 8:54:34 GMT
I think the only issue for the Tories between now and the next election is finding a window of opportunity to replace Johnson with the least negative impact. And then replacing him with a candidate free from the stench of his tenure. Then barring any scandals or disasters they will rise again in the polls. Labour's only hope is if Johnson sticks around........ That's a fair analysis, but is he really that toxic? In 'normal' parliamentary terms, absolutely so, but he's not a normal politician in the same way that Trump isn't a normal politician. Voters seem not to care about what Johnson does in ways that wouldn't apply to anyone else. I keep hearing rumours that the eventual publication of the Sue Gray report will be so excoriating that he'll have to go. Will he? Really? After all that he's survived so far? I wouldn't bank on it. I think Johnson's biggest problem is that people might simply get fed up with the constant car crash that is his UK government, on top of a cost of living crisis, record recent inflation and what appears to be impending recession. Throw in distance from Brexit (he'll still have some goodwill in the bank from that from some quarters at present) and people might want change. I suspect a hung parliament is the best Labour can hope for. Very few parties overturn an 80 seat majority in one go. The prospect of a hung Parliament is not good news for Starmer as the idea of him being in power with the SNP will be a concern to lots of people in England, not so much because of the independence question (although that will no doubt be important to some people) but because they will fear they will be disadvantaged as a consequence of preference being given to Scotland. The thing with Johnson is the next election should be a shoe in for his party. The fact Labour have a shout, even if it is as part of a coalition, is down to Johnson’s failings.
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Post by knype on May 6, 2022 8:59:45 GMT
It’s tough to extrapolate GE outcomes from local elections. Let’s remember both Hague and Howard gave Blair a good kicking in local elections but were trounced when the General Election came about. That said, Johnson is at most risk. If the Tories think his leadership will mean they lose the next election there’s a good chance he will be punted. Let’s see how that plays out today. I suspect he will stick around though… like a bad smell. Starmer is pretty safe. His problem isn’t personal, it’s the political dynamics he is up against specifically the likelihood that he will need to form a coalition government with the SNP which is a dynamic that could well work against him in lots of marginals. Will party gate still be in the forefront of voters minds at the GE in two years time? Is it in anyone bar the Loony Far Left's now?
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Post by flea79 on May 6, 2022 9:00:44 GMT
I think the only issue for the Tories between now and the next election is finding a window of opportunity to replace Johnson with the least negative impact. And then replacing him with a candidate free from the stench of his tenure. Then barring any scandals or disasters they will rise again in the polls. Labour's only hope is if Johnson sticks around........ Agree 100%. Btw, yesterday I did something I’ve never done before. I spoiled my vote. Not one of the parties deserved my endorsement. i often spoil my vote at a local level, its symbolic but shows a level of dissatisfaction with the system and/or choices available but most importantly it shows you went out too vote and your counted in the numbers, people have died for the right too vote and we should all do it even if you spoil your slips
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Post by knype on May 6, 2022 9:08:21 GMT
I think the only issue for the Tories between now and the next election is finding a window of opportunity to replace Johnson with the least negative impact. And then replacing him with a candidate free from the stench of his tenure. Then barring any scandals or disasters they will rise again in the polls. Labour's only hope is if Johnson sticks around........ That's a fair analysis, but is he really that toxic? In 'normal' parliamentary terms, absolutely so, but he's not a normal politician in the same way that Trump isn't a normal politician. Voters seem not to care about what Johnson does in ways that wouldn't apply to anyone else. I keep hearing rumours that the eventual publication of the Sue Gray report will be so excoriating that he'll have to go. Will he? Really? After all that he's survived so far? I wouldn't bank on it. I think Johnson's biggest problem is that people might simply get fed up with the constant car crash that is his UK government, on top of a cost of living crisis, record recent inflation and what appears to be impending recession. Throw in distance from Brexit (he'll still have some goodwill in the bank from that from some quarters at present) and people might want change. I suspect a hung parliament is the best Labour can hope for. Very few parties overturn an 80 seat majority in one go. The cost of living crisis, record recent inflation and the impending recession was due to Covid measures and backed firmly by Starmer and his team who wanted more restrictions and control!
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 6, 2022 9:08:28 GMT
Concern for Labour is being seen as a London party Agree with this. London doesn’t represent a national voice and a focus on them will lose floating voters and probably a few more as well. It’s already being portrayed as a big win because they won 3 councils there, I couldn’t give a toss either way about Barnet…
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Post by knype on May 6, 2022 9:12:04 GMT
Concern for Labour is being seen as a London party Agree with this. London doesn’t represent a national voice and a focus on them will lose floating voters and probably a few more as well. It’s already being portrayed as a big win because they won 3 councils there, I couldn’t give a toss either way about Barnet… London is labour because of Khan !
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Post by yeokel on May 6, 2022 9:34:39 GMT
What we've learned so far. Not a hope in hell that the Tories get an overall majority in the next election under Johnson Not a hope in hell that Labour get an overall majority in the next election under Starmer Who blinks first? Will either of them blink? Does anybody care It’s tough to extrapolate GE outcomes from local elections. Let’s remember both Hague and Howard gave Blair a good kicking in local elections but were trounced when the General Election came about. That said, Johnson is at most risk. If the Tories think his leadership will mean they lose the next election there’s a good chance he will be punted. Let’s see how that plays out today. I suspect he will stick around though… like a bad smell. Starmer is pretty safe. His problem isn’t personal, it’s the political dynamics he is up against specifically the likelihood that he will need to form a coalition government with the SNP which is a dynamic that could well work against him in lots of marginals. " Starmer is pretty safe. His problem isn’t personal" I can't agree with that. He has zero charisma and, from what I've seen, doesn't really stand for anything or have any political message. The sooner they ditch him, the better.
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Post by Kpsje on May 6, 2022 10:00:20 GMT
here’s five randomly selected election results: (winks) puzzling results… any connection with sir keith’s ‘beergate’ scandal? (slightly smiling face) edit: sir keith starmer investigated over alleged lockdown breach - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61352174
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 6, 2022 10:03:16 GMT
Tories have held more seats than I thought and actually made gains in certain areas. I cannot fathom it.
Frustrating when you hear people saying they will still vote Conservative despite admitting they think local services are worse, the national government is a shambles and with a PM who broke the law.
Until people start thinking more critically we'll all be burdened with this government.
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Post by followyoudown on May 6, 2022 10:03:28 GMT
Agree with this. London doesn’t represent a national voice and a focus on them will lose floating voters and probably a few more as well. It’s already being portrayed as a big win because they won 3 councils there, I couldn’t give a toss either way about Barnet… London is labour because of Khan I think you mean in spite of not because.... honestly check the turnout in the glorified transport commissioner votes hardly anyone bothers it was Labour originally with Ken Livingstone until Boris stood.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 6, 2022 10:09:18 GMT
The results so far tell me that we need a new electoral system. Then the people at a GE will have more than 2 options on the table.
They also tell me that the only way Labour are in power after the next election is if they work together with the other parties to get rid of the tories. That’s the only way under first past the post because the tories only need about 1in 5 of the electorate to vote for them when the boundary changes happen to get a majority of mps elected. What an undemocratic system we have.
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Post by phileetin on May 6, 2022 10:51:00 GMT
The results so far tell me that we need a new electoral system. Then the people at a GE will have more than 2 options on the table. They also tell me that the only way Labour are in power after the next election is if they work together with the other parties to get rid of the tories. That’s the only way under first past the post because the tories only need about 1in 5 of the electorate to vote for them when the boundary changes happen to get a majority of mps elected. What an undemocratic system we have.
a coalition or proportional representation will give rise to indecisive policies . no harsh actions will be taken by the controlling group .The delay in Brexit was an example of no overall control at its worst when the country was in effect governed by the whims of idiot Bercow . At least if you've got a single party in power with a majority the public has someone to blame .
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 6, 2022 10:58:49 GMT
The results so far tell me that we need a new electoral system. Then the people at a GE will have more than 2 options on the table. They also tell me that the only way Labour are in power after the next election is if they work together with the other parties to get rid of the tories. That’s the only way under first past the post because the tories only need about 1in 5 of the electorate to vote for them when the boundary changes happen to get a majority of mps elected. What an undemocratic system we have. At least if you've got a single party in power with a majority the public has someone to blame .
...and continue to vote for.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 6, 2022 11:01:06 GMT
Early signs suggest that the Conservative losses are being spread a bit more evenly across Lab-Lib-Greens than I thought they would.
Hopefully this will emphasise the need for the three to work together at the next GE.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 6, 2022 12:33:15 GMT
The results so far tell me that we need a new electoral system. Then the people at a GE will have more than 2 options on the table. They also tell me that the only way Labour are in power after the next election is if they work together with the other parties to get rid of the tories. That’s the only way under first past the post because the tories only need about 1in 5 of the electorate to vote for them when the boundary changes happen to get a majority of mps elected. What an undemocratic system we have. a coalition or proportional representation will give rise to indecisive policies . no harsh actions will be taken by the controlling group .The delay in Brexit was an example of no overall control at its worst when the country was in effect governed by the whims of idiot Bercow . At least if you've got a single party in power with a majority the public has someone to blame .
I would agree, but if that single party in power only gets 20 or 25% of the electorate voting for them in order to get their majority, there is something exceptionally wrong about our system. Consider that only 29.3% of eligible voters voted Tory at the last election, yet they have a big majority and hold 56.2% of seats in the Commons. Not really very representative of the vote. The majority of other western democracies have some form of proportional voting system. They operate just fine. Ours doesn’t, and it still operates badly, as you pointed out.
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Post by followyoudown on May 6, 2022 12:49:51 GMT
a coalition or proportional representation will give rise to indecisive policies . no harsh actions will be taken by the controlling group .The delay in Brexit was an example of no overall control at its worst when the country was in effect governed by the whims of idiot Bercow . At least if you've got a single party in power with a majority the public has someone to blame .
I would agree, but if that single party in power only gets 20 or 25% of the electorate voting for them in order to get their majority, there is something exceptionally wrong about our system. Consider that only 29.3% of eligible voters voted Tory at the last election, yet they have a big majority and hold 56.2% of seats in the Commons. Not really very representative of the vote. The majority of other western democracies have some form of proportional voting system. They operate just fine. Ours doesn’t, and it still operates badly, as you pointed out. Easily fixed make turning up to vote compulsory for everyone like the convicts do you can spoil your ballot paper if you want to but you have to turn or get fined.
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Post by theonlooker on May 6, 2022 13:10:20 GMT
Some of these results locally are just bizarre.
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