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Post by scfc75 on Apr 6, 2022 12:59:12 GMT
Darren Ferguson!!!! Sol Campbell!!!!!!! Paul Gascoigne!!!!!!!!!!! They!!!! all!!!!! fit!!!!! your!!!!!!!!! criteria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferguson lives off his old man, Campbell has no experience and Gascoigne is a wife beating pisshead. It’s a NO from me!!!!!!! But they fit your criteria, you plank 😂
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 6, 2022 13:02:28 GMT
Ferguson lives off his old man, Campbell has no experience and Gascoigne is a wife beating pisshead. It’s a NO from me!!!!!!! But they fit your criteria, you plank 😂 Said who???? Unless you know which you don’t, b be button it!!!!!!!!!
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 6, 2022 13:06:41 GMT
But they fit your criteria, you plank 😂 Said who???? Unless you know which you don’t, b be button it!!!!!!!!! 😂😂😂
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Post by xchpotter on Apr 6, 2022 13:14:17 GMT
Pressure and expectation…..the moment there is any they go to pieces, a bit like England used to on penalties. After the two recent back to back wins (which were still poor performances I would add) there was some deluded talk on Radio Stoke about the playoffs and them not being mathematically impossible. The players got wind of this and due to having no backbone or resilience the pressure built and so they reverted to type as we saw last night. They are incapable of dealing with pressure and expectation and just rub off on each other. Eventually the decent players new to the club become contaminated and they end up being unable to do the basics as well. There is something missing and something very, very fragile in the psyche of this group of players.
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Post by lordb on Apr 6, 2022 13:15:15 GMT
Our players, collectively, are no less competent or less technically able than 22 of the other 23 sides in this division
In short we should be getting more out of them
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 6, 2022 13:24:06 GMT
They aren't particularly incompetent or technically poor for the Championship. They are definitely less competent and technically poor compared to the teams we had in the Premiership but that's inevitable. No-one has really faced up to the fact that every manager since Rowett has effectively been given the job of making us technically worse while retaining our place in the Championship because that's the reality if you don't make an instant return. You can only afford and attract players who are Championship standard.
The other factor is that the age of the squad has reduced dramatically and many of them are still learning the game and making elementary mistakes. It's poor decision making that's let us down more often than pure technical ability and that only gets better with experience.
If anything our squad is technically better than most in this division and we try to play a patient, passing game. The problem is a lot of teams have an up and at them approach to counter their technical deficiencies which has caught us out on a number of occasions - Luton at home was a classic example. If anything we need to be less patient and be prepared to get stuck in more because although we may be a bit better technically than other teams we aren't good enough just to boss games the way a team like Fulham can because they still have a number of Premiership quality players at their disposal.
Or alternatively we can just blame the manager. It never fails because you can always blame the next one and there's never any backsies.
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Post by onepara on Apr 6, 2022 13:29:48 GMT
I think that most footballers are thick. Either that, or they do what coaches tell them to do. Take the throw-in. Most of them throw the ball to the upper body. Yes, I know that it's the largest part of the torso, but while the ball is in flight the opposing player has time to get to the ball before it is received, falls to the floor, controlled & then played. So they are closed down. If the ball is thrown to feet, it's on the floor already. Years ago I heard this said on Radio Stoke to a Vale player. He said "I never thought of that".
They play the ball directly to a player, or worse behind them, rather than a ball that they can run on to, because they are told that it keeps it further away from an opposing player. Most players do it. So it is being coached. That's what helps to kill momentum. In the same way that goalkeepers fall on the floor with the ball, to kill the game. It's being coached. This continuous passing across the back is being coached. 'If we've go the ball they can't score'. Also, because possession stats look good for the coaches. I think the team play how they are told to play. Negative possession football. I've long thought that a point for a goalless draw doesn't help. They start with a point, & end with one if they don't score or concede a goal. It encourages negative football. I'm sure that this is Michaels thinking. Keep what you start with, & if you can score, then well done.
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Post by medwaypotter on Apr 6, 2022 14:08:06 GMT
Things aren’t going well Duck, but when he gets sacked and replaced by Alan Pardew or Kenny Jackett you might find yourself wishing he was back. You should know by opinion of prehistoric shite British coaches (O’Neill being one of them) by now. If the board go British unless it’s a player who’s played under great coaches and with great players AKA Rooney/Lampard, they need F##king!!!!!!! Yeah, Lampard fucking nailing it at Everton......
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Post by jokker on Apr 6, 2022 14:24:48 GMT
So why were they confident against Forest and WBA but not Luton et al? It's a matter of motivation on the players' part. Against the two former clubs, and a few others, they are playing teams they believe to be just below their own level, so motivation is high to prove that. Against most other teams in this division they are playing teams they believe are vastly inferior to themselves, so they go into matches thinking they just have to turn up and they've already won. Sometimes they don't even turn up. I believe the manager does what he should in preparing the team for games. But no matter of managerial motivational skills are sufficient if players cannot motivate themselves out on the pitch. When that happens, there's nothing that a manager can do, except to deselect them for the remainder of the season. But that's not as easy as it sounds, because we're not allowed to just field the 4-5 players that do care and show adequate game approach. Moreover the manager has to believe that his players are decent working people. He can issue a bollocking, but he has to work with them the rest of the week. See 5 posts up from the one you've posted! He showed weakness, the players collapsed and lost all belief. I can't take it seriously when you say he lost his mind. Maybe you lost your mind, because we've also had decent results since October, in among the less pleasing results. We were temporarily second in the league in December. There is no record of players collapsing, and when exactly did he show weakness. I suppose he has tried too many different things over a short period as discussedd in other threads, but the fact that the team has managed to get to 52 pts is a clear indication that they play for him, not against him. It's the playing for their own pride which is more lacking. What I wrote about is a more modern weakness among the players, which came in in the latter Hughes years and which has continued under all subsequent managers.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 6, 2022 14:39:46 GMT
I think that most footballers are thick. Either that, or they do what coaches tell them to do. Take the throw-in. Most of them throw the ball to the upper body. Yes, I know that it's the largest part of the torso, but while the ball is in flight the opposing player has time to get to the ball before it is received, falls to the floor, controlled & then played. So they are closed down. If the ball is thrown to feet, it's on the floor already. Years ago I heard this said on Radio Stoke to a Vale player. He said "I never thought of that". They play the ball directly to a player, or worse behind them, rather than a ball that they can run on to, because they are told that it keeps it further away from an opposing player. Most players do it. So it is being coached. That's what helps to kill momentum. In the same way that goalkeepers fall on the floor with the ball, to kill the game. It's being coached. This continuous passing across the back is being coached. 'If we've go the ball they can't score'. Also, because possession stats look good for the coaches. I think the team play how they are told to play. Negative possession football. I've long thought that a point for a goalless draw doesn't help. They start with a point, & end with one if they don't score or concede a goal. It encourages negative football. I'm sure that this is Michaels thinking. Keep what you start with, & if you can score, then well done. Other examples I've highlighted is the keeper holding onto the ball for far too long (rules never applied) and both teams having a player stripped to make a sub and instead of making both changes during the one stoppage the manager lets the game restart without making his sub allowing him to disrupt the game again as we saw from MON at the weekend and other occasions at home this season. Small things that really boil my piss as a spectator.
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Post by jokker on Apr 6, 2022 15:21:07 GMT
Watch the lack of movement from the forwards… then start thinking why the likes of sawyers can’t find a pass. Sawyers flatters to deceive yes he's scored the odd goal but he's slow looks unfit and makes Julian Clarey look like one of the gladiators! He probably is, having just come back from a lengthy lay off. He probably wasn't supposed to play for an hour, just a cameo at the end, but when Thompson was injured, there probably wasn't a better option. And for those who say there is no pace in his game, yeah maybe he isn't JPB or JB when running, but he can spot a great pass before it happens and his delivery and passes are acute and long, which makes him a potential gamechanger. But for our non-existant defensive actions at the Reading corner, he might have been.
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Post by kustokie on Apr 6, 2022 15:34:02 GMT
I think that most footballers are thick. Either that, or they do what coaches tell them to do. Take the throw-in. Most of them throw the ball to the upper body. Yes, I know that it's the largest part of the torso, but while the ball is in flight the opposing player has time to get to the ball before it is received, falls to the floor, controlled & then played. So they are closed down. If the ball is thrown to feet, it's on the floor already. Years ago I heard this said on Radio Stoke to a Vale player. He said "I never thought of that". They play the ball directly to a player, or worse behind them, rather than a ball that they can run on to, because they are told that it keeps it further away from an opposing player. Most players do it. So it is being coached. That's what helps to kill momentum. In the same way that goalkeepers fall on the floor with the ball, to kill the game. It's being coached. This continuous passing across the back is being coached. 'If we've go the ball they can't score'. Also, because possession stats look good for the coaches. I think the team play how they are told to play. Negative possession football. I've long thought that a point for a goalless draw doesn't help. They start with a point, & end with one if they don't score or concede a goal. It encourages negative football. I'm sure that this is Michaels thinking. Keep what you start with, & if you can score, then well done. Nailed it in one.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Apr 6, 2022 17:11:44 GMT
See 5 posts up from the one you've posted! He showed weakness, the players collapsed and lost all belief. I can't take it seriously when you say he lost his mind. Maybe you lost your mind, because we've also had decent results since October, in among the less pleasing results. We were temporarily second in the league in December. There is no record of players collapsing, and when exactly did he show weakness. I suppose he has tried too many different things over a short period as discussedd in other threads, but the fact that the team has managed to get to 52 pts is a clear indication that they play for him, not against him. It's the playing for their own pride which is more lacking. What I wrote about is a more modern weakness among the players, which came in in the latter Hughes years and which has continued under all subsequent managers. Yes mate, I've lost my mind ... go have a look at a league table of the last 20 games and then ask yourself when it all started to go wrong.
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Post by jokker on Apr 6, 2022 17:26:55 GMT
I can't take it seriously when you say he lost his mind. Maybe you lost your mind, because we've also had decent results since October, in among the less pleasing results. We were temporarily second in the league in December. There is no record of players collapsing, and when exactly did he show weakness. I suppose he has tried too many different things over a short period as discussedd in other threads, but the fact that the team has managed to get to 52 pts is a clear indication that they play for him, not against him. It's the playing for their own pride which is more lacking. What I wrote about is a more modern weakness among the players, which came in in the latter Hughes years and which has continued under all subsequent managers. Yes mate, I've lost my mind ... go have a look at a league table of the last 20 games and then ask yourself when it all started to go wrong. I don't think it all started to go wrong. The only time we were humiliated was in the Fulham game, and we weren't even bad then. I don't care for alternative league tables, only for the real table, which shows we're mediocre. Which we are.
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Post by leicspotter on Apr 6, 2022 17:47:57 GMT
They aren't particularly incompetent or technically poor for the Championship. They are definitely less competent and technically poor compared to the teams we had in the Premiership but that's inevitable. No-one has really faced up to the fact that every manager since Rowett has effectively been given the job of making us technically worse while retaining our place in the Championship because that's the reality if you don't make an instant return. You can only afford and attract players who are Championship standard. The other factor is that the age of the squad has reduced dramatically and many of them are still learning the game and making elementary mistakes. It's poor decision making that's let us down more often than pure technical ability and that only gets better with experience. If anything our squad is technically better than most in this division and we try to play a patient, passing game. The problem is a lot of teams have an up and at them approach to counter their technical deficiencies which has caught us out on a number of occasions - Luton at home was a classic example. If anything we need to be less patient and be prepared to get stuck in more because although we may be a bit better technically than other teams we aren't good enough just to boss games the way a team like Fulham can because they still have a number of Premiership quality players at their disposal. Or alternatively we can just blame the manager. It never fails because you can always blame the next one and there's never any backsies. Pretty much spot on. Probably explains why we do pretty well against the better sides, even Fulham, who want to play football and tend to allow the opposition more time, and then struggle against Luton, with their Rugby Union kick off, or Peterborough playing agricultural football on a ploughed field. The thing is, as a certain previous manager would often say, you have to earn the right to play, and too many of our players don't want to do the graft. There is plenty of flair in our squad but very little backbone and hardly any movement The solution: personally I would be looking to create a new "spine" in the team and try to recruit an "enforcer". For a season we might get away with a spine of Bursik; Jagielka; Baker and a.n.other, around which the likes of Powell, Campbell, Tymon, Brown and DWP could flourish...still need 2 full backs mind
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Post by bagnallboothen on Apr 6, 2022 17:58:45 GMT
Yes mate, I've lost my mind ... go have a look at a league table of the last 20 games and then ask yourself when it all started to go wrong. I don't think it all started to go wrong. The only time we were humiliated was in the Fulham game, and we weren't even bad then. I don't care for alternative league tables, only for the real table, which shows we're mediocre. Which we are. So you're telling me we were good enough to be second in December, now you're telling me 15th is about right. We went from second to 15th in just over 2 months, but nothing went wrong?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 6, 2022 18:06:18 GMT
Our players, collectively, are no less competent or less technically able than 22 of the other 23 sides in this division In short we should be getting more out of them Precisely, which leaves our season squarely at the door of the manager
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Post by onepara on Apr 6, 2022 18:10:41 GMT
I think that most footballers are thick. Either that, or they do what coaches tell them to do. Take the throw-in. Most of them throw the ball to the upper body. Yes, I know that it's the largest part of the torso, but while the ball is in flight the opposing player has time to get to the ball before it is received, falls to the floor, controlled & then played. So they are closed down. If the ball is thrown to feet, it's on the floor already. Years ago I heard this said on Radio Stoke to a Vale player. He said "I never thought of that". They play the ball directly to a player, or worse behind them, rather than a ball that they can run on to, because they are told that it keeps it further away from an opposing player. Most players do it. So it is being coached. That's what helps to kill momentum. In the same way that goalkeepers fall on the floor with the ball, to kill the game. It's being coached. This continuous passing across the back is being coached. 'If we've go the ball they can't score'. Also, because possession stats look good for the coaches. I think the team play how they are told to play. Negative possession football. I've long thought that a point for a goalless draw doesn't help. They start with a point, & end with one if they don't score or concede a goal. It encourages negative football. I'm sure that this is Michaels thinking. Keep what you start with, & if you can score, then well done. Other examples I've highlighted is the keeper holding onto the ball for far too long (rules never applied) and both teams having a player stripped to make a sub and instead of making both changes during the one stoppage the manager lets the game restart without making his sub allowing him to disrupt the game again as we saw from MON at the weekend and other occasions at home this season. Small things that really boil my piss as a spectator. Another one, subs not dressed ready to come on. We now have a 'sub for a supposed head injury'. So the player hits the floor, holds his head & is substituted as he may have concussion. This usually happens when his team are under pressure. His team can now bring on a fresh player. Any time during the game. Usually when they are winning, & need to waste time. Despite all of this, i've renewed my season card!
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Post by dirtclod on Apr 6, 2022 18:38:53 GMT
[Preferably with a Tommy Chong voiceover] Aw man! Screw possession! That stuff can get you heavy jail time over here in the U.S...man. (No man, I swear to God it's not mine!)
Trying to hold onto the stuff is risky, you need to use it or keep it moving. (Sound familiar?)
Coincidence? I think not.
Now back to your normal programming.
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Post by jokker on Apr 6, 2022 18:40:22 GMT
I don't think it all started to go wrong. The only time we were humiliated was in the Fulham game, and we weren't even bad then. I don't care for alternative league tables, only for the real table, which shows we're mediocre. Which we are. So you're telling me we were good enough to be second in December, now you're telling me 15th is about right. We went from second to 15th in just over 2 months, but nothing went wrong? Those are the facts.
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 6, 2022 18:40:44 GMT
It's simply a lack of confidence. They were all fine on the ball at home to Forest and WBA. No got to disagree there it’s not all down to confidence
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 6, 2022 19:48:35 GMT
Other examples I've highlighted is the keeper holding onto the ball for far too long (rules never applied) and both teams having a player stripped to make a sub and instead of making both changes during the one stoppage the manager lets the game restart without making his sub allowing him to disrupt the game again as we saw from MON at the weekend and other occasions at home this season. Small things that really boil my piss as a spectator. Another one, subs not dressed ready to come on. We now have a 'sub for a supposed head injury'. So the player hits the floor, holds his head & is substituted as he may have concussion. This usually happens when his team are under pressure. His team can now bring on a fresh player. Any time during the game. Usually when they are winning, & need to waste time. Despite all of this, i've renewed my season card! Yeah me too.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 6, 2022 19:58:26 GMT
Other examples I've highlighted is the keeper holding onto the ball for far too long (rules never applied) and both teams having a player stripped to make a sub and instead of making both changes during the one stoppage the manager lets the game restart without making his sub allowing him to disrupt the game again as we saw from MON at the weekend and other occasions at home this season. Small things that really boil my piss as a spectator. Another one, subs not dressed ready to come on. We now have a 'sub for a supposed head injury'. So the player hits the floor, holds his head & is substituted as he may have concussion. This usually happens when his team are under pressure. His team can now bring on a fresh player. Any time during the game. Usually when they are winning, & need to waste time. Despite all of this, i've renewed my season card! How often has that happened? The only time I can remember seeing four subs this season in a Stoke game was because Stoke made one. It’s possible that another club has done it and I hadn’t paid attention, but if it was a common occurrence I’d have expected more moaning by Denis Smith et al to be honest.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Apr 6, 2022 19:58:34 GMT
To they want to still play for the dinosaur who bought them? Doesn’t look that way!!!!!! Can someone translate this for me please.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 6, 2022 20:03:43 GMT
I think that most footballers are thick. Either that, or they do what coaches tell them to do. Take the throw-in. Most of them throw the ball to the upper body. Yes, I know that it's the largest part of the torso, but while the ball is in flight the opposing player has time to get to the ball before it is received, falls to the floor, controlled & then played. So they are closed down. If the ball is thrown to feet, it's on the floor already. Years ago I heard this said on Radio Stoke to a Vale player. He said "I never thought of that". They play the ball directly to a player, or worse behind them, rather than a ball that they can run on to, because they are told that it keeps it further away from an opposing player. Most players do it. So it is being coached. That's what helps to kill momentum. In the same way that goalkeepers fall on the floor with the ball, to kill the game. It's being coached. This continuous passing across the back is being coached. 'If we've go the ball they can't score'. Also, because possession stats look good for the coaches. I think the team play how they are told to play. Negative possession football. I've long thought that a point for a goalless draw doesn't help. They start with a point, & end with one if they don't score or concede a goal. It encourages negative football. I'm sure that this is Michaels thinking. Keep what you start with, & if you can score, then well done. I agree with ball played to feet, I’ve railed against this on numerous occasions. I don’t agree with throwing a ball to a player’s foot. It’s harder to control a bouncing ball with someone in your back and one leg lifted to stop it than it is to trap dead a ball on the chest. Stoke’s issues with throw ins stem from a very small attacking unit (no chance for flick ons) and an inability to throw far or fast. If you can’t launch it, then we should have a policy that the wide defensive player closest to the ball rushes over and the two/three nearest players to him sprint forwards. At least if we throw it into those spaces, we’ll either get another throw or put them under pressure. Standing still for 15 seconds while we (and they) set up is pointless.
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Post by onepara on Apr 6, 2022 20:06:04 GMT
They don't understand 'sprint'.
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Post by onepara on Apr 6, 2022 20:07:05 GMT
Or 'rush'.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 6, 2022 21:52:42 GMT
Another one, subs not dressed ready to come on. We now have a 'sub for a supposed head injury'. So the player hits the floor, holds his head & is substituted as he may have concussion. This usually happens when his team are under pressure. His team can now bring on a fresh player. Any time during the game. Usually when they are winning, & need to waste time. Despite all of this, i've renewed my season card! How often has that happened? The only time I can remember seeing four subs this season in a Stoke game was because Stoke made one. It’s possible that another club has done it and I hadn’t paid attention, but if it was a common occurrence I’d have expected more moaning by Denis Smith et al to be honest. More moaning? christ alive
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Post by dirtclod on Apr 7, 2022 1:53:00 GMT
Now we'll come out next match and suddenly look like a threat to play decent. Should sufficiently raise hope enough. Think I'm starting to get this.
You don't have to be insane to follow Stoke, but any little bit helps.
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Post by stormin on Apr 7, 2022 8:53:23 GMT
part of it is square pegs in round holes. playing full back versus center half for example. Its a different game compplays need to letely (unless its a Pulis back 4 then you are just a wide center half and don't have to change much) and will definitely impact even pros (especially young pros) Maybe MON should take inspiration from watching the under 23's, they play constructively, with pace and work together as a team. Why do you borrow clapped out or show pony players who disrupt team structure and loan out three strikers and central defenders who need first team experience this season. If next season Stoke were to challenge for promotion these young players!!! need to participate in this wasted season. MON cannot even look a person in the eye let alone give someone a blow lamp experience.
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