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Post by spitthedog on Apr 5, 2022 21:23:27 GMT
I am looking for real insights here into why players at this level can be so poor technically?
When our players receive the ball they mostly look hesitant and they often take the easy option to knock it backwards or sideways or give the ball away if they are forced to move it forwards.
Their passing is generally poor when they have to play the ball forward.
Is it poor technique, lack of options, or lack of movement off the ball, or lack of strategy? A combination of all?
My feeling is that this is exacerbated by the way they are set up.
They don't seem to know what they want to do with the ball when they get it. I remember the way that Clough set up his teams each player knew who they should be getting the ball to when they received it and that was in their mind and became instinctive and they trained with this strategy.
Are players like Wilmot, Tymon and Brown (others too) just technically flawed, or are their minds confused or lacking clarity. Are these players really as bad as they seem?
Sawyers seems like the only player who has an idea of what he wants to do with a football. Campbell was like this too before his injury.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Apr 5, 2022 21:26:05 GMT
It's simply a lack of confidence. They were all fine on the ball at home to Forest and WBA.
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Post by houstonsteve on Apr 5, 2022 21:28:15 GMT
part of it is square pegs in round holes. playing full back versus center half for example. Its a different game completely (unless its a Pulis back 4 then you are just a wide center half and don't have to change much) and will definitely impact even pros (especially young pros)
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Post by iamstokie on Apr 5, 2022 21:31:11 GMT
Poor management and shite coaching
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Post by kidcrewbob on Apr 5, 2022 21:32:43 GMT
The players don’t respond to the manager because they either don’t know what the fuck he’s on about or they are not convinced by his strategy and revert to doing their own thing or not very much / not very well .......either way it’s irretrievable in my view .....
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 5, 2022 21:33:19 GMT
To they want to still play for the dinosaur who bought them? Doesn’t look that way!!!!!!
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Post by HarryTheHat on Apr 5, 2022 21:33:43 GMT
Poor management and shite coaching Yep! - that's about the size of it |
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Post by BuzzB on Apr 5, 2022 21:34:59 GMT
It's simply a lack of confidence. They were all fine on the ball at home to Forest and WBA. 2 out of 40 is hardly good enough though is it mate. Wilmot is just so so poor, basics, passing positioning. Tymon for that move that lead to the corner for their second, Hoilett wasn't one bit interested in going for that until he saw Tymon jogging then trying to be clever. He got punished. Maja, not a good game but he is left alone trying to close 3 or 4 down and then get his own game going, its poor management that part. These are professional players, attitude and application should go hand in hand, we have been so poor for 4 months now yet he keeps picking the same players who are poor. As for hanging DWP out on the left, don't get me going on that one! Roll on summer, no football to get wound up about. |
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Post by bagnallboothen on Apr 5, 2022 21:36:45 GMT
It's simply a lack of confidence. They were all fine on the ball at home to Forest and WBA. 2 out of 40 is hardly good enough though is it mate. Wilmot is just so so poor, basics, passing positioning. Tymon for that move that lead to the corner for their second, Hoilett wasn't one bit interested in going for that until he saw Tymon jogging then trying to be clever. He got punished. Maja, not a good game but he is left alone trying to close 3 or 4 down and then get his own game going, its poor management that part. These are professional players, attitude and application should go hand in hand, we have been so poor for 4 months now yet he keeps picking the same players who are poor. As for hanging DWP out on the left, don't get me going on that one! Roll on summer, no football to get wound up about. Sorry, could you point out where I said it was good enough? I'm as pissed off as you, I don't need to type it on every thread. Enjoy your evening x |
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 5, 2022 21:39:06 GMT
Jo Allen under numerous managers, in a wales shirt super in a Stoke shirt under no pressure what so ever just simply can't find a team mate!
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Post by scfcno1fan on Apr 5, 2022 21:41:29 GMT
Jo Allen under numerous managers, in a wales shirt super in a Stoke shirt under no pressure what so ever just simply can't find a team mate! Allen checked out mentally months ago. |
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2022 21:46:32 GMT
To they want to still play for the dinosaur who bought them? Doesn’t look that way!!!!!! Do you think our players are intentionally playing crap, Duck? |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 5, 2022 21:51:06 GMT
Because the majority (with several exceptions) are Poundland purchases (loans, free transfers, low budget fees).
In life you generally get what you pay for with the odd exception.
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 5, 2022 21:51:23 GMT
To they want to still play for the dinosaur who bought them? Doesn’t look that way!!!!!! Do you think our players are intentionally playing crap, Duck? You tell me? How many clubs have a shite manager-like us and players don’t perform? As soon as the new boss comes in they’re like new players!!!!! |
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Post by jonparkinsgut on Apr 5, 2022 21:53:58 GMT
I am looking for real insights here into why players at this level can be so poor technically? When our players receive the ball they mostly look hesitant and they often take the easy option to knock it backwards or sideways or give the ball away if they are forced to move it forwards. Their passing is generally poor when they have to play the ball forward. Is it poor technique, lack of options, or lack of movement off the ball, or lack of strategy? A combination of all? My feeling is that this is exacerbated by the way they are set up. They don't seem to know what they want to do with the ball when they get it. I remember the way that Clough set up his teams each player knew who they should be getting the ball to when they received it and that was in their mind and became instinctive and they trained with this strategy. Are players like Wilmot, Tymon and Brown (others too) just technically flawed, or are their minds confused or lacking clarity. Are these players really as bad as they seem? Sawyers seems like the only player who has an idea of what he wants to do with a football. Campbell was like this too before his injury. It's not rocket science. A player needs to know where he's going to move the ball before he gets it. Look at all the premier league players, they know exactly that. Also, there's a habit of passing the ball either directly to or behind the receiver, this stifles any forward movement. Football is simple (it has to be given the IQ levels of those that play it) get the basics right and don't overthink it! |
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Post by sticky on Apr 5, 2022 21:55:26 GMT
Movement/options off the ball not good enough, they seem to dither to long with it and invite pressure, could be confidence/coaching, not really sure tbh.. a big big season coming up, we need to get transfers spot on whoever is in charge
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2022 21:56:12 GMT
Do you think our players are intentionally playing crap, Duck? You tell me? How many clubs have a shite manager-like us and players don’t perform? As soon as the new boss comes in they’re like new players!!!!! If that were to happen then I’d suggest they are a bunch of arseholes. They are playing crap because they aren’t very good Duck. |
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 5, 2022 21:57:54 GMT
Jo Allen under numerous managers, in a wales shirt super in a Stoke shirt under no pressure what so ever just simply can't find a team mate! Worth considering that we have set ourselves a low standard in general ball control when the leagues highest paid player is made leader and captain not to mention undropable. Most of our players will know they won't get anywhere near the salary package he's currently on and could very well come into play with thoughts on their own standards and a reason to improve on them. |
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 5, 2022 21:59:04 GMT
You tell me? How many clubs have a shite manager-like us and players don’t perform? As soon as the new boss comes in they’re like new players!!!!! If that were to happen then I’d suggest they are a bunch of arseholes. They are playing crap because they aren’t very good Duck. The manager is shite and should of been sacked months ago. They’re his players nobody else’s!!!!!! |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 5, 2022 22:00:32 GMT
I am looking for real insights here into why players at this level can be so poor technically? When our players receive the ball they mostly look hesitant and they often take the easy option to knock it backwards or sideways or give the ball away if they are forced to move it forwards. Their passing is generally poor when they have to play the ball forward. Is it poor technique, lack of options, or lack of movement off the ball, or lack of strategy? A combination of all? My feeling is that this is exacerbated by the way they are set up. They don't seem to know what they want to do with the ball when they get it. I remember the way that Clough set up his teams each player knew who they should be getting the ball to when they received it and that was in their mind and became instinctive and they trained with this strategy. Are players like Wilmot, Tymon and Brown (others too) just technically flawed, or are their minds confused or lacking clarity. Are these players really as bad as they seem? Sawyers seems like the only player who has an idea of what he wants to do with a football. Campbell was like this too before his injury. It's not rocket science. A player needs to know where he's going to move the ball before he gets it. Look at all the premier league players, they know exactly that. Also, there's a habit of passing the ball either directly to or behind the receiver, this stifles any forward movement. Football is simple (it has to be given the IQ levels of those that play it) get the basics right and don't overthink it! I really think this is where our players (and/or coaches) are lacking. They really seem stumped by possession. They either go for the headless chicken approach, running into too many defenders, pass waywardly because they take the wrong option, thinking they are Franz Beckenbauer, or pass backwards and sideways hoping someone else has got a better idea. I see this game after game. |
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h5nty
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 80
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Post by h5nty on Apr 5, 2022 22:00:34 GMT
Jo Allen under numerous managers, in a wales shirt super in a Stoke shirt under no pressure what so ever just simply can't find a team mate! Allen checked out mentally months ago. Months? Years. |
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Post by sheds1862 on Apr 5, 2022 22:04:02 GMT
It's simply a lack of confidence. They were all fine on the ball at home to Forest and WBA. Yes but sadly there's been about 38 games where they weren't |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2022 22:04:19 GMT
If that were to happen then I’d suggest they are a bunch of arseholes. They are playing crap because they aren’t very good Duck. The manager is shite and should of been sacked months ago. They’re his players nobody else’s!!!!!! I agree, we very rarely attack or play or even counter attack. The players are not interested. |
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Post by malisastokie on Apr 5, 2022 22:06:59 GMT
There are many reasons why we look technically competent.
1. Some of the players are technically poor .
2. The tempo we play at puts pressure on the players receiving the ball as they are man marked or in some cases doubled marked.
3. Certain players are playing out of position.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Apr 5, 2022 22:08:16 GMT
I don't get why we bring in players like Harwood-Bellis???
He's hardly stood out in any games, other than his mistakes!!!
At the end of the season, he goes back to Man City, whether he's done well here or not, and his memories of Stoke are long gone!!!
If you're going to give youth a chance, why not give our own a chance like Forrester, you'd be tempted to think he'd have more desire to do well here than Harwood-Bellis!!!
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2022 22:08:45 GMT
If that were to happen then I’d suggest they are a bunch of arseholes. They are playing crap because they aren’t very good Duck. The manager is shite and should of been sacked months ago. They’re his players nobody else’s!!!!!! Things aren’t going well Duck, but when he gets sacked and replaced by Alan Pardew or Kenny Jackett you might find yourself wishing he was back. |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 5, 2022 22:09:45 GMT
The manager is shite and should of been sacked months ago. They’re his players nobody else’s!!!!!! I agree, we very rarely attack or play or even counter attack. The players are not interested. I don't really agree with the idea that they are not interested when they play. I think our players are committed in games. They are trying but maybe they are not interested in learning why they are failing most times? There doesn't seem to be much progress in individual development as well collective performance. Brown and Tymon have improved but lets face it they were starting from a very low bar, so improvement doesn't mean they are necessarily good enough. They are both bottom half Championship players imo and sometimes struggle with this. But I think the bigger problem is our lack of progress in working as a unit. Very disjointed again tonight. |
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Post by Ron on Apr 5, 2022 22:15:26 GMT
Watch the lack of movement from the forwards… then start thinking why the likes of sawyers can’t find a pass.
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 5, 2022 22:16:07 GMT
The manager is shite and should of been sacked months ago. They’re his players nobody else’s!!!!!! Things aren’t going well Duck, but when he gets sacked and replaced by Alan Pardew or Kenny Jackett you might find yourself wishing he was back. You should know by opinion of prehistoric shite British coaches (O’Neill being one of them) by now. If the board go British unless it’s a player who’s played under great coaches and with great players AKA Rooney/Lampard, they need F##king!!!!!!! |
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Post by a on Apr 5, 2022 22:18:33 GMT
The manager is shite and should of been sacked months ago. They’re his players nobody else’s!!!!!! Things aren’t going well Duck, but when he gets sacked and replaced by Alan Pardew or Kenny Jackett you might find yourself wishing he was back. Will Alan be doing his little dance tho? |
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