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Post by ted1965 on Feb 20, 2022 9:38:10 GMT
As we approach a game where we must win or the season is as good as over in terms of reaching the playoffs against our former manager who actually has Luton on the fringes of the playoff places it is a time to look at where we stand right no.
Nathan Jones, left us adrift of the league when he was rightly fired and not many supporters saw not much hope of survival given the toxic nature of the dressing room and the club which seemed to have been set up for failure. MON, came in and turned the whole nature of the club around if the pandemic hadn’t arrived we would have survived comfortably as momentum was with us but ultimately we finished mid-table which was a fine achievement given all the disadvantage we faced with poor recruitment and even poorer management from at all levels over the previous few seasons.
Of coursewe as supporters saw the improvement from where we had been to where we were and expectation suddenly cranked up and we were going to challenge next season for promotion, in reality much of the toxicity still hung over the club like a black cloud keeping the club down FFP is reality it isn’t an excuse, the dramatic effects of not complying are there for all to see. We can argue on it’s merits or lack of actually improving football all we want but the sadly it is a fact of life and has to be dealt with.
MON has worked very wellwithin the restrictions to put a very decent squad together over the last few years are we the finished article not even close but are we better going into the summer definitely he seeds of better times ahead are there, yes I know we have a lot of loan signings which means we can’t guarantee the same level but we at least will have some more wiggle room come the summer recruiting efforts. If we can continue to recruit exciting talent and improve them and yes I include the young talent we have coming through then I genuinely believe next season will be a much happier and consistent effort.
I am not saying MON, should be given years to tu achieve something but given the club he walked into he’s done a very good job and deserves a chance to push his ideas forward with a less toxic environment. I totally understand the nature of modern football instant success or you change coaches or managers, time is no longer a managers friend it’s either succeed or goodbye. When I first watched football back in 1970 as a 5 years old managers had time to build a club, to mould it in their image, you really needed a disastrous run of results to be sacked. Tony Waddington, was a magnificent manager but he evolved the glorious football philosophy I enjoyed so much over time, it didn’t happen overnight but it was a project worth waiting for.
I know MON isn’t going to get a decade or more that simply doesn’t happen in modern football but I think he should at least get one more season to enjoy the fruits of the work he has put in to turn us around from the total basket case he inherited from Jones and those who came before him.
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Post by crowey on Feb 20, 2022 9:42:08 GMT
…. very concise as usual Ted 😉
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Post by march4 on Feb 20, 2022 9:45:21 GMT
Second half of last season we averaged pretty much a point a game.
Over the past twenty games we are slightly above that.
That is relegation form.
There might be improvement but it is insufficient for me.
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 20, 2022 9:46:19 GMT
As we approach a game where we must win or the season is as good as over in terms of reaching the playoffs against our former manager who actually has Luton on the fringes of the playoff places it is a time to look at where we stand right no. Nathan Jones, left us adrift of the league when he was rightly fired and not many supporters saw not much hope of survival given the toxic nature of the dressing room and the club which seemed to have been set up for failure. MON, came in and turned the whole nature of the club around if the pandemic hadn’t arrived we would have survived comfortably as momentum was with us but ultimately we finished mid-table which was a fine achievement given all the disadvantage we faced with poor recruitment and even poorer management from at all levels over the previous few seasons. Of coursewe as supporters saw the improvement from where we had been to where we were and expectation suddenly cranked up and we were going to challenge next season for promotion, in reality much of the toxicity still hung over the club like a black cloud keeping the club down FFP is reality it isn’t an excuse, the dramatic effects of not complying are there for all to see. We can argue on it’s merits or lack of actually improving football all we want but the sadly it is a fact of life and has to be dealt with. MON has worked very wellwithin the restrictions to put a very decent squad together over the last few years are we the finished article not even close but are we better going into the summer definitely he seeds of better times ahead are there, yes I know we have a lot of loan signings which means we can’t guarantee the same level but we at least will have some more wiggle room come the summer recruiting efforts. If we can continue to recruit exciting talent and improve them and yes I include the young talent we have coming through then I genuinely believe next season will be a much happier and consistent effort. I am not saying MON, should be given years to tu achieve something but given the club he walked into he’s done a very good job and deserves a chance to push his ideas forward with a less toxic environment. I totally understand the nature of modern football instant success or you change coaches or managers, time is no longer a managers friend it’s either succeed or goodbye. When I first watched football back in 1970 as a 5 years old managers had time to build a club, to mould it in their image, you really needed a disastrous run of results to be sacked. Tony Waddington, was a magnificent manager but he evolved the glorious football philosophy I enjoyed so much over time, it didn’t happen overnight but it was a project worth waiting for. I know MON isn’t going to get a decade or more that simply doesn’t happen in modern football but I think he should at least get one more season to enjoy the fruits of the work he has put in to turn us around from the total basket case he inherited from Jones and those who came before him. I think we are miles away from where we want to be and I can see another mid table finish next season , ONeill is quickly running out of credit and I think season ticket sales may force the Coates hand |
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Post by chuckrocky on Feb 20, 2022 9:57:02 GMT
I don’t see how you can say we’re ’much improved’ when we’re one point better off then we were at the same stage last season.
We’ve been more pleasing on the eye the last few games but we’re still no closer to being a side that can consistently win games in this league.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 20, 2022 10:02:05 GMT
Almost gone? The season has passed us by!
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Post by Gods on Feb 20, 2022 10:15:39 GMT
Second half of last season we averaged pretty much a point a game. Over the past twenty games we are slightly above that. That is relegation form. There might be improvement but it is insufficient for me. Looking at it we got 13 points from the first 6 games, automatic promotion form. Since the we have garnered only 31 points from the next 25 games. Enough to keep us above the relegation zone, but only just. More of the same next season would not at all be a good thing. I don't think we are anything like bad enough to go down, 71% possession yesterday tells you that but it was quite a stunt to see that much of the ball and still not win. We seem to lack some pragmatism. If I was in charge my first signing would be a functional goalkeeper and build from the back. There's plenty of time to phase in some of these ridiculous fancy dans we have on loan and from the youth team but we need a platform. Think Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, N'Zonzi and start from there. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 20, 2022 10:26:11 GMT
Second half of last season we averaged pretty much a point a game. Over the past twenty games we are slightly above that. That is relegation form. There might be improvement but it is insufficient for me. Looking at it we got 13 points from the first 6 games, automatic promotion form. Since the we have garnered only 31 points from the next 25 games. Enough to keep us above the relegation zone, but only just. More of the same next season would not at all be a good thing. I don't think we are anything like bad enough to go down, 71% possession yesterday tells you that but it was quite a stunt to see that much of the ball and still not win. We seem to lack some pragmatism. If I was in charge my first signing would be a functional goalkeeper and build from the back. There's plenty of time to phase in some of these ridiculous fancy dans we have on loan and from the youth team but we need a platform. Think Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, N'Zonzi and start from there. I Wouldnt rule out a points deduction just yet making next season interesting for different reasons given the run rate in the last 20 games my old friend is blinking just in case |
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Post by scfcno1fan on Feb 20, 2022 10:26:14 GMT
Much improved?
I’d may be say slightly improved and that’s pushing it.
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Post by wuzza on Feb 20, 2022 10:33:07 GMT
We have improved and continue to do so.
The last steps to turn the side into one capable of challenging for promotion will be the most difficult as we need to seek out -
1. Players of high Championship quality that will make a difference when needed (will we be allowed to pay the amounts needed?)
2. Players with a tough winning mentality that will get us through games like yesterday.
It’s a very difficult task especially when so many sides are much of a muchness in this league.
MON has got to have another couple of seasons to see if he can get everything in place.
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Post by iglugluk on Feb 20, 2022 10:33:50 GMT
We should have won the last 2 games and if we had we would still be in touch with the playoffs.
This is a season of missed opportunity as far as I'm concerned.
MON will absolutely be given another season but our improvement is not translating into points and League position so far and that simply has to change.
.. before someone says we are something like 1 place higher and a couple of points better than last season I would say that is not enough given where we were earlier this season.
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 20, 2022 10:55:21 GMT
We have improved and continue to do so. The last steps to turn the side into one capable of challenging for promotion will be the most difficult as we need to seek out - 1. Players of high Championship quality that will make a difference when needed (will we be allowed to pay the amounts needed?) 2. Players with a tough winning mentality that will get us through games like yesterday. It’s a very difficult task especially when so many sides are much of a muchness in this league. MON has got to have another couple of seasons to see if he can get everything in place. Another couple of seasons , I admire your humour on a Sunday but surely it’s a pisstake |
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Post by foxysgloves on Feb 20, 2022 11:02:53 GMT
We have improved and continue to do so. The last steps to turn the side into one capable of challenging for promotion will be the most difficult as we need to seek out - 1. Players of high Championship quality that will make a difference when needed (will we be allowed to pay the amounts needed?) 2. Players with a tough winning mentality that will get us through games like yesterday. It’s a very difficult task especially when so many sides are much of a muchness in this league. MON has got to have another couple of seasons to see if he can get everything in place. This. |
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Post by pmjh on Feb 20, 2022 12:37:05 GMT
Second half of last season we averaged pretty much a point a game. Over the past twenty games we are slightly above that. That is relegation form. There might be improvement but it is insufficient for me. Looking at it we got 13 points from the first 6 games, automatic promotion form. Since the we have garnered only 31 points from the next 25 games. Enough to keep us above the relegation zone, but only just. More of the same next season would not at all be a good thing. I don't think we are anything like bad enough to go down, 71% possession yesterday tells you that but it was quite a stunt to see that much of the ball and still not win. We seem to lack some pragmatism. If I was in charge my first signing would be a functional goalkeeper and build from the back. There's plenty of time to phase in some of these ridiculous fancy dans we have on loan and from the youth team but we need a platform. Think Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, N'Zonzi and start from there. You can't just discount 6 games because it doesn't suit your argument. we've got 44 points which is midtable form, not relegation form. |
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Post by HarryTheHat on Feb 20, 2022 12:56:16 GMT
We have improved and continue to do so. The last steps to turn the side into one capable of challenging for promotion will be the most difficult as we need to seek out - 1. Players of high Championship quality that will make a difference when needed (will we be allowed to pay the amounts needed?) 2. Players with a tough winning mentality that will get us through games like yesterday. It’s a very difficult task especially when so many sides are much of a muchness in this league. MON has got to have another couple of seasons to see if he can get everything in place. This. ....is nonsense |
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Post by chuckrocky on Feb 20, 2022 13:11:04 GMT
We have improved and continue to do so. The last steps to turn the side into one capable of challenging for promotion will be the most difficult as we need to seek out - 1. Players of high Championship quality that will make a difference when needed (will we be allowed to pay the amounts needed?) 2. Players with a tough winning mentality that will get us through games like yesterday. It’s a very difficult task especially when so many sides are much of a muchness in this league. MON has got to have another couple of seasons to see if he can get everything in place. If you need to give a manager 5 years to turn us into a genuine promotion contender, despite being one of the best backed managers in the league then he probably isn’t the right man for the job. Corberan, Wilder and Cooper have managed to do all of what you said in a matter of months at their respective clubs. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 20, 2022 13:13:31 GMT
MON Deserves to see out his full contract,if he has us close to promotion by then,then extend it,if we are stuck in mid table,then don't extend his contract and get someone else i n.
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Post by wuzza on Feb 20, 2022 14:09:33 GMT
We have improved and continue to do so. The last steps to turn the side into one capable of challenging for promotion will be the most difficult as we need to seek out - 1. Players of high Championship quality that will make a difference when needed (will we be allowed to pay the amounts needed?) 2. Players with a tough winning mentality that will get us through games like yesterday. It’s a very difficult task especially when so many sides are much of a muchness in this league. MON has got to have another couple of seasons to see if he can get everything in place. If you need to give a manager 5 years to turn us into a genuine promotion contender, despite being one of the best backed managers in the league then he probably isn’t the right man for the job. Corberan, Wilder and Cooper have managed to do all of what you said in a matter of months at their respective clubs. A long term lasting job might well require that time. No point in going up just to be cannon fodder like Norwich and West Brom do. Needs to make lasting and significant changes to structure and culture and then wait for them to yield results. In a 160 year history of achieving sweet FA is 5 years that significant ? Just depends if you think MON , Holden and their back up team are the people for that job - I think they have done good things so far. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 14:13:44 GMT
Second half of last season we averaged pretty much a point a game. Over the past twenty games we are slightly above that. That is relegation form. There might be improvement but it is insufficient for me. That's right, if you remove all of our periods of good form we're relegation candidates. Worth mentioning both of these periods of poor form have coincided with major injuries. Been missing Souttar (best defender), Powell (best midfielder) and Campbell (best attacker). Can't expect to still be at our best. |
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Post by Gods on Feb 20, 2022 14:19:35 GMT
Looking at it we got 13 points from the first 6 games, automatic promotion form. Since the we have garnered only 31 points from the next 25 games. Enough to keep us above the relegation zone, but only just. More of the same next season would not at all be a good thing. I don't think we are anything like bad enough to go down, 71% possession yesterday tells you that but it was quite a stunt to see that much of the ball and still not win. We seem to lack some pragmatism. If I was in charge my first signing would be a functional goalkeeper and build from the back. There's plenty of time to phase in some of these ridiculous fancy dans we have on loan and from the youth team but we need a platform. Think Begovic, Huth, Shawcross, N'Zonzi and start from there. You can't just discount 6 games because it doesn't suit your argument. we've got 44 points which is midtable form, not relegation form. I'm not discounting the first 6 games, quite the opposite. Wrestling to understand how we could start well and then so quickly turn to shit? I have no answers except to say something similar happened last season where we downed tools and packed up after the Spurs FA Cup exit. |
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Post by yyy on Feb 20, 2022 14:39:24 GMT
We might be improved but yesterday we adjusted our game because of them, shouldn't be doing that home when you're playing well and need the points
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 15:22:56 GMT
We might be improved but yesterday we adjusted our game because of them, shouldn't be doing that home when you're playing well and need the points Can you elaborate on how? I keep seeing really lazy worn out messaging on here. 'No plan B' 'changed our game for them' 'wrong subs at the wrong time'. I would love people to actually elaborate on what they think should be done or have done. |
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Post by yyy on Feb 20, 2022 15:30:41 GMT
We might be improved but yesterday we adjusted our game because of them, shouldn't be doing that home when you're playing well and need the points Can you elaborate on how? I keep seeing really lazy worn out messaging on here. 'No plan B' 'changed our game for them' 'wrong subs at the wrong time'. I would love people to actually elaborate on what they think should be done or have done. He should have stuck to 4231 for me, we're playing well no need to change it and we are at home against a lower placed team, play someone else CAM if need be, drop DWP in there for a game. We need the points and we've dropped another player deeper, no need for it, especially when it's Sam clucas Mr 1 in 10 himself. Playing to stay in the game then change it at 70 mins? At home? When we're playing catch up? Why? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 15:32:49 GMT
Can you elaborate on how? I keep seeing really lazy worn out messaging on here. 'No plan B' 'changed our game for them' 'wrong subs at the wrong time'. I would love people to actually elaborate on what they think should be done or have done. He should have stuck to 4231 for me, we're playing well no need to change it and we are at home against a lower placed team, play someone else CAM if need be, drop DWP in there for a game. We need the points and we've dropped another player deeper, no need for it, especially when it's Sam clucas Mr 1 in 10 himself. Playing to stay in the game then change it at 70 mins? At home? We don't have another CAM, DWP hasn't played there for us why would we assume he could? We were also thin on the ground for subs, we start him and the only attacker left on the bench is Fletcher due to injuries. Clucas was the more attacking option, the alternative was playing Thompson who has been best screening, so him and Allen together would be seen as very negative. We were playing to win I believe, just didn't have the players and some, i.e. Clucas were having poor games. |
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Post by yyy on Feb 20, 2022 15:36:52 GMT
He should have stuck to 4231 for me, we're playing well no need to change it and we are at home against a lower placed team, play someone else CAM if need be, drop DWP in there for a game. We need the points and we've dropped another player deeper, no need for it, especially when it's Sam clucas Mr 1 in 10 himself. Playing to stay in the game then change it at 70 mins? At home? We don't have another CAM, DWP hasn't played there for us why would we assume he could? We were also thin on the ground for subs, we start him and the only attacker left on the bench is Fletcher due to injuries. Clucas was the more attacking option, the alternative was playing Thompson who has been best screening, so him and Allen together would be seen as very negative. We were playing to win I believe, just didn't have the players and some, i.e. Clucas were having poor games. Doesn't matter if DWP hasn't played there, you could have put bidace CAM and put dwp on the left. We have loads of options, even with injuries. 433 to me is shit, a player in the hole can cause all sorts of problems, defenders have to think whether to come or go plus you've got an extra shirt there. Never been a fan of 433 and I didn't see any benefit in it yesterday either |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 15:40:52 GMT
We don't have another CAM, DWP hasn't played there for us why would we assume he could? We were also thin on the ground for subs, we start him and the only attacker left on the bench is Fletcher due to injuries. Clucas was the more attacking option, the alternative was playing Thompson who has been best screening, so him and Allen together would be seen as very negative. We were playing to win I believe, just didn't have the players and some, i.e. Clucas were having poor games. Doesn't matter if DWP hasn't played there, you could have put bidace CAM and put dwp on the left. We have loads of options, even with injuries. 433 to me is shit, a player in the hole can cause all sorts of problems, defenders have to think whether to come or go plus you've got an extra shirt there. Never been a fan of 433 and I didn't see any benefit in it yesterday either And the issue of having no one to bring on? Bidace hasn't ever played there either... Who are these options  This is comedy, responding by doing the exact thing I'm on about... 'Loads of options' like fucking who? 4-3-3 is just shit? Aye, doesn't work for Liverpool or City does it... Fuck me sideways. |
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Post by yyy on Feb 20, 2022 15:51:54 GMT
Doesn't matter if DWP hasn't played there, you could have put bidace CAM and put dwp on the left. We have loads of options, even with injuries. 433 to me is shit, a player in the hole can cause all sorts of problems, defenders have to think whether to come or go plus you've got an extra shirt there. Never been a fan of 433 and I didn't see any benefit in it yesterday either And the issue of having no one to bring on? Bidace hasn't ever played there either... Who are these options This is comedy, responding by doing the exact thing I'm on about... 'Loads of options' like fucking who? 4-3-3 is just shit? Aye, doesn't work for Liverpool or City does it... Fuck me sideways. Bit of a difference between man City and Liverpool doing it they've got world class players. 433 is shite, it was shite under rowett and its shite under o Neill. Sit someone on the bench from the U23's, why not. You could have started fast on the front foot in a 4231, get a couple of goals then bring UB40 on and go 433, or Thompson to steady the game. Changing it when you're playing well & you're at home is daft |
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 20, 2022 16:04:50 GMT
I don’t see how you can say we’re ’much improved’ when we’re one point better off then we were at the same stage last season. We’ve been more pleasing on the eye the last few games but we’re still no closer to being a side that can consistently win games in this league. We are but you have to compare at the end of the season. Last season we were at the start of a dreadful run. I can't be bothered to look up how many points we got in the last fifteen games but I remember wondering why I kept paying £10 to watch a stream of the matches. I am expecting some entertaining matches for the rest of this season when we score goals but unfortunately like yesterday concede far too easily. The big question for next season is can we sort out our defence while still playing the attacking football we've seen recently. The minus point is that there is no way JPB will be here but perhaps Campbell, Powell, DWP, hopefully Maja if we buy him and perhaps eventually Tezgel can give us those moments which get you off your seat. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 16:06:24 GMT
And the issue of having no one to bring on? Bidace hasn't ever played there either... Who are these options  This is comedy, responding by doing the exact thing I'm on about... 'Loads of options' like fucking who? 4-3-3 is just shit? Aye, doesn't work for Liverpool or City does it... Fuck me sideways. Bit of a difference between man City and Liverpool doing it they've got world class players. 433 is shite, it was shite under rowett and its shite under o Neill. Sit someone on the bench from the U23's, why not. You could have started fast on the front foot in a 4231, get a couple of goals then bring UB40 on and go 433, or Thompson to steady the game. Changing it when you're playing well & you're at home is daft You just assume we get a couple goals  I reckon we don't play any defenders score five and then don't let them score any. Why doesn't MON do that? |
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Post by yyy on Feb 20, 2022 16:17:36 GMT
Bit of a difference between man City and Liverpool doing it they've got world class players. 433 is shite, it was shite under rowett and its shite under o Neill. Sit someone on the bench from the U23's, why not. You could have started fast on the front foot in a 4231, get a couple of goals then bring UB40 on and go 433, or Thompson to steady the game. Changing it when you're playing well & you're at home is daft You just assume we get a couple goals I reckon we don't play any defenders score five and then don't let them score any. Why doesn't MON do that? No reason not to assume it how we have been playing |
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