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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 18, 2022 9:00:07 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 18, 2022 9:21:38 GMT
Crazy.
The main lesson from VAR is that it has no place in football and needs getting rid of ASAP. It's been so poorly implemented and those running the game seem unwilling to acknowledge that decisions in football almost always fall in grey areas and cannot be judged subjectively.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 9:40:52 GMT
Crazy. The main lesson from VAR is that it has no place in football and needs getting rid of ASAP. It's been so poorly implemented and those running the game seem unwilling to acknowledge that decisions in football almost always fall in grey areas and cannot be judged subjectively. I hated it when it came out, especially how goals were scored and celebrated and then chalked off. It all felt very creepy and unnatural. However, for what’s been lost something has been gained. Ultimately, it prevents illegitimate goals being awarded and vice versa. To me it’s starting to feel like no smoking in pubs, which was very weird and “unnatural” when it was first implemented. I can remember all the media at that time where landlords were refusing to implement and being fined / shut down. And yet now it feels strange (for me at least born in the late 80s) to think that smoking indoors in restraunts and pubs, cinemas etc etc, used to be a thing. I suspect that VAR is similar where, another 5 or 10 years down the line, it’ll feel strange to remember how games could be won/lost despite one team scoring a dodgy goal that counted and the other team scoring a good goal that was chalked off. It’s here to stay anyway so I’m not sure you’re going to get much joy wishing it away even though I empathise with that viewpoint. Championship should start with goal line technology. Edit: I’ve just googled and it seems GLT has been in the championship for years already, fuck me I feel retarded |
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Post by leicspotter on Feb 18, 2022 10:23:22 GMT
Crazy. The main lesson from VAR is that it has no place in football and needs getting rid of ASAP. It's been so poorly implemented and those running the game seem unwilling to acknowledge that decisions in football almost always fall in grey areas and cannot be judged subjectively. I hated it when it came out, especially how goals were scored and celebrated and then chalked off. It all felt very creepy and unnatural. However, for what’s been lost something has been gained. Ultimately, it prevents illegitimate goals being awarded and vice versa. To me it’s starting to feel like no smoking in pubs, which was very weird and “unnatural” when it was first implemented. I can remember all the media at that time where landlords were refusing to implement and being fined / shut down. And yet now it feels strange (for me at least born in the late 80s) to think that smoking indoors in restraunts and pubs, cinemas etc etc, used to be a thing. I suspect that VAR is similar where, another 5 or 10 years down the line, it’ll feel strange to remember how games could be won/lost despite one team scoring a dodgy goal that counted and the other team scoring a good goal that was chalked off. It’s here to stay anyway so I’m not sure you’re going to get much joy wishing it away even though I empathise with that viewpoint. Championship should start with goal line technology.
Edit: I’ve just googled and it seems GLT has been in the championship for years already, fuck me I feel retarded Your last comment shows, to me at least, just how successful GLT has been. It is instant and unobtrusive and clearly (almost) fool proof. VAR was introduced in the most bizarre and haphazard manner resulting in it being attacked, rightly, from all sides. It seemed totally alien to its original premise of "clear and obvious" error. I still don't get some of the decisions and the 'nit picking' means it cannot be just looking at "clear and obvious" errors If they can introduce var light into the EFL in the right way it can only be a good thing...it's a very big IF though |
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Post by stokefc on Feb 18, 2022 10:24:53 GMT
I can't imagine scoring going mental then for it to be chalked off due to a marginal decision it would give me life tilt
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Post by femark on Feb 18, 2022 10:28:26 GMT
I hated it when it came out, especially how goals were scored and celebrated and then chalked off. It all felt very creepy and unnatural. However, for what’s been lost something has been gained. Ultimately, it prevents illegitimate goals being awarded and vice versa. To me it’s starting to feel like no smoking in pubs, which was very weird and “unnatural” when it was first implemented. I can remember all the media at that time where landlords were refusing to implement and being fined / shut down. And yet now it feels strange (for me at least born in the late 80s) to think that smoking indoors in restraunts and pubs, cinemas etc etc, used to be a thing. I suspect that VAR is similar where, another 5 or 10 years down the line, it’ll feel strange to remember how games could be won/lost despite one team scoring a dodgy goal that counted and the other team scoring a good goal that was chalked off. It’s here to stay anyway so I’m not sure you’re going to get much joy wishing it away even though I empathise with that viewpoint. Championship should start with goal line technology.
Edit: I’ve just googled and it seems GLT has been in the championship for years already, fuck me I feel retarded Your last comment shows, to me at least, just how successful GLT has been. It is instant and unobtrusive and clearly (almost) fool proof. VAR was introduced in the most bizarre and haphazard manner resulting in it being attacked, rightly, from all sides. It seemed totally alien to its original premise of "clear and obvious" error. I still don't get some of the decisions and the 'nit picking' means it cannot be just looking at "clear and obvious" errors If they can introduce var light into the EFL in the right way it can only be a good thing...it's a very big IF though It needs to be used like the video referee in Rugby. The ref can ask to check if he's not sure or the video ref can highlight something to the ref if its a clear offence. But it isn't used for small nit picky things. One thing that seems to happen with VAR in football is the ref might ask to check for a possible handball, then the VAR assistant analyses every minute detail in the build up to the goal for any possible reason to disallow it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 10:37:06 GMT
I can't imagine scoring going mental then for it to be chalked off due to a marginal decision it would give me life tilt Ye that's the thing that creeps me out the most still. Imagine scoring a last minute goal, having your mental, then after 2 mins of dilly-dallying you find out it's not being allowed. It without doubt takes away from the supporter experience; not being able to truly get lost in the emotion of scoring a goal. Life tilt clear poker expression btw. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 18, 2022 10:40:13 GMT
I hated it when it came out, especially how goals were scored and celebrated and then chalked off. It all felt very creepy and unnatural. However, for what’s been lost something has been gained. Ultimately, it prevents illegitimate goals being awarded and vice versa. To me it’s starting to feel like no smoking in pubs, which was very weird and “unnatural” when it was first implemented. I can remember all the media at that time where landlords were refusing to implement and being fined / shut down. And yet now it feels strange (for me at least born in the late 80s) to think that smoking indoors in restraunts and pubs, cinemas etc etc, used to be a thing. I suspect that VAR is similar where, another 5 or 10 years down the line, it’ll feel strange to remember how games could be won/lost despite one team scoring a dodgy goal that counted and the other team scoring a good goal that was chalked off. It’s here to stay anyway so I’m not sure you’re going to get much joy wishing it away even though I empathise with that viewpoint. Championship should start with goal line technology.
Edit: I’ve just googled and it seems GLT has been in the championship for years already, fuck me I feel retarded Your last comment shows, to me at least, just how successful GLT has been. It is instant and unobtrusive and clearly (almost) fool proof. VAR was introduced in the most bizarre and haphazard manner resulting in it being attacked, rightly, from all sides. It seemed totally alien to its original premise of "clear and obvious" error. I still don't get some of the decisions and the 'nit picking' means it cannot be just looking at "clear and obvious" errors If they can introduce var light into the EFL in the right way it can only be a good thing...it's a very big IF though I agree with all of that LP. Whilst supporting VAR if used correctly, I can't understand how we got to a point where, for example, offside decisions are reversed where the original decision by the ref was or was not correct by a matter of millimetres. A decision which is wrong by a couple of millimetres is not and never has been a clear and obvious error! To me it shows that those in authority who implement and supervise things like VAR are simply not fit to do their job. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 18, 2022 10:50:58 GMT
Your last comment shows, to me at least, just how successful GLT has been. It is instant and unobtrusive and clearly (almost) fool proof. VAR was introduced in the most bizarre and haphazard manner resulting in it being attacked, rightly, from all sides. It seemed totally alien to its original premise of "clear and obvious" error. I still don't get some of the decisions and the 'nit picking' means it cannot be just looking at "clear and obvious" errors If they can introduce var light into the EFL in the right way it can only be a good thing...it's a very big IF though I agree with all of that LP. Whilst supporting VAR if used correctly, I can't understand how we got to a point where, for example, offside decisions are reversed where the original decision by the ref was or was not correct by a matter of millimetres. A decision which is wrong by a couple of millimetres is not and never has been a clear and obvious error! To me it shows that those in authority who supervise things like VAR are simply not fit to do their job. I agree mate. Anyone who watched the Stoke Huddersfield game and isn't in favour of VAR in the Championship must be barmy. My only reservation is the way it's used. My understanding is that it won't be for the contentious toenail offsides because there won't be sufficient cameras so it will be just the blatantly obvious 'icecream/programme seller' errors that will be corrected. Along with penno's and sendings off. To be honest if it's implemented properly I can see VAR Light being adopted in the prem. rather than the ridiculously over the top full fat version they have now. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 18, 2022 10:52:42 GMT
I can't imagine scoring going mental then for it to be chalked off due to a marginal decision it would give me life tilt Ye that's the thing that creeps me out the most still. Imagine scoring a last minute goal, having your mental, then after 2 mins of dilly-dallying you find out it's not being allowed. It without doubt takes away from the supporter experience; not being able to truly get lost in the emotion of scoring a goal. Life tilt clear poker expression btw. Or you get 2 mentals when it's not ruled out. |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 18, 2022 11:37:04 GMT
Clear & Obvious Refereeing Decision? Villa’s recent goal disallowed by VAR for a toe length being offside. Real value for supporters  |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 18, 2022 11:45:38 GMT
Clear & Obvious Refereeing Decision? Villa’s recent goal disallowed by VAR for a toe length being offside. Real value for supporters View Attachment I might be reading it wrong but that's not what they're proposing for the EFL and WSL. They can't do the micro analysis of offsides because they haven't got enough cameras. So it will literally be the very obvious offside errors of which, in fairness to most lino's, there are very few. |
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Post by walrus on Feb 18, 2022 11:53:02 GMT
Parking the ridiculous toenail lines, there’s still a fundamental issue with VAR decisions taking way too long and spoiling the flow of the match.
Liverpool’s penalty at Crystal Palace a few weeks ago is a prime example. The game was stopped for a full three minutes and the decision was still ultimately a wrong one.
I’d rather not have it at all, but I heard a proposal which I liked: If the video referee is not able to come to a firm decision within 30 seconds then it’s considered a marginal call and the initial decision is upheld.
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Post by lordb on Feb 18, 2022 12:04:43 GMT
Parking the ridiculous toenail lines, there’s still a fundamental issue with VAR decisions taking way too long and spoiling the flow of the match. Liverpool’s penalty at Crystal Palace a few weeks ago is a prime example. The game was stopped for a full three minutes and the decision was still ultimately a wrong one. I’d rather not have it at all, but I heard a proposal which I liked: If the video referee is not able to come to a firm decision within 30 seconds then it’s considered a marginal call and the initial decision is upheld. the suggestion is this will be much quicker |
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 18, 2022 12:19:51 GMT
Clear & Obvious Refereeing Decision? Villa’s recent goal disallowed by VAR for a toe length being offside. Real value for supporters View Attachment That’s a problem with the law of the game though. The offside rule needs major revision in my opinion. VAR can work nicely, and does on many occasions. The Dunk sending off versus Man Utd was a good example of that. There’s also no way that Koroma would have been on the pitch versus us after the tackle on THB. |
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Post by scfc75 on Feb 18, 2022 12:22:29 GMT
Parking the ridiculous toenail lines, there’s still a fundamental issue with VAR decisions taking way too long and spoiling the flow of the match. Liverpool’s penalty at Crystal Palace a few weeks ago is a prime example. The game was stopped for a full three minutes and the decision was still ultimately a wrong one. I’d rather not have it at all, but I heard a proposal which I liked: If the video referee is not able to come to a firm decision within 30 seconds then it’s considered a marginal call and the initial decision is upheld. the suggestion is this will be much quicker So better than ‘full fat’ VAR? |
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Post by lordb on Feb 18, 2022 12:30:05 GMT
the suggestion is this will be much quicker So better than ‘full fat’ VAR? supposedly |
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Post by cousindupree on Feb 18, 2022 12:30:08 GMT
Ye that's the thing that creeps me out the most still. Imagine scoring a last minute goal, having your mental, then after 2 mins of dilly-dallying you find out it's not being allowed. It without doubt takes away from the supporter experience; not being able to truly get lost in the emotion of scoring a goal. Life tilt clear poker expression btw. Or you get 2 mentals when it's not ruled out. Indeed and a mental when the oppositions goal is disallowed.....happy days! Never understand the negativity behind a move to get decisions right. It's not perfect but an improvement on leaving the decision solely to shite referees. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 12:31:21 GMT
Crazy. The main lesson from VAR is that it has no place in football and needs getting rid of ASAP. It's been so poorly implemented and those running the game seem unwilling to acknowledge that decisions in football almost always fall in grey areas and cannot be judged subjectively. I think is seriously needed at our level due to the standard of refereeing |
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 18, 2022 13:03:02 GMT
Bring it on. If the right decisions are reached in the end I'm up for it. You have to say most Vars are accurate in line with the rules. Maybe we might have seen a red for Huddersfield had it been in use. No problem at all whilst refs and officials on the pitch continue to show a staggering level of incompetence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 13:08:29 GMT
After the diabolical decisions we saw at Huddersfield alone, VAR introduction should not be questioned.
With the money at stake as far as promotion is concerned is a must.
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Post by stokefc on Feb 18, 2022 14:47:28 GMT
After the diabolical decisions we saw at Huddersfield alone, VAR introduction should not be questioned. With the money at stake as far as promotion is concerned is a must.And relegation Imagine being relegated by VAR it might be the right call but how gutting that would be |
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Post by Gods on Feb 18, 2022 14:56:09 GMT
Offside was brought in, I guess, to prevent one side from leaving someone up front shamelessly goal hanging thus forcing the other side to leave a couple of players back even when they were attacking.
I don't suppose anyone envisaged the game of cat and mouse that subsequently ensued.
I can't help thinking some suitable change to the offside rule would be better than shipping in a whole load of tech to prop it up!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 14:56:16 GMT
After the diabolical decisions we saw at Huddersfield alone, VAR introduction should not be questioned. With the money at stake as far as promotion is concerned is a must.And relegation Imagine being relegated by VAR it might be the right call but how gutting that would be True but be fair. |
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 18, 2022 18:35:02 GMT
Or you get 2 mentals when it's not ruled out. Indeed and a mental when the oppositions goal is disallowed.....happy days! Never understand the negativity behind a move to get decisions right. It's not perfect but an improvement on leaving the decision solely to shite referees. The issue is you're involving a load more shit referees in the decision making process. People are bringing up Huddersfield. No need for VAR there, just a half competent referee. It's no coincidence that refereeing is getting worse with the introduction of VAR, it makes them lazy. Throw into the mix the fact they are run by one of the worst refs of all time in Mike Riley, it's no wonder it's a shit show. Invest the money in improving referees. Pay them more, but punish them for really bad decisions. |
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Post by StatesideStokie on Feb 18, 2022 18:44:06 GMT
Ye that's the thing that creeps me out the most still. Imagine scoring a last minute goal, having your mental, then after 2 mins of dilly-dallying you find out it's not being allowed. It without doubt takes away from the supporter experience; not being able to truly get lost in the emotion of scoring a goal. Life tilt clear poker expression btw. Or you get 2 mentals when it's not ruled out. You also get the added bonus of the occasional mental to celebrate a last minute opposition equalizer being ruled out. Nowt better than rebelling in a rival team’s misfortune. It’s swings and roundabouts. |
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Post by thepottypotter on Feb 18, 2022 18:51:20 GMT
I have always found football to be quite anachronistic in terms of the adoption of refereeing tech compared with most modern sports.
Shit refs have ruined my enjoyment so much over the years that I stopped going to most matches. I didn’t find it fun just blaming them every week and felt like I was wasting time and money. I didn’t see much competitive integrity.
I still go to the occasional game but if the ref is really awful then I leave early. I stream most games these days and will turn some off and not personally care for the result (I always want Stoke to win ofc but I mean my entertainment/emotional connection to the result) if the ref is truly diabolical. I stopped watching the Huddersfield game for this reason.
For me, any tech that moves away from just one person is only a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 19:21:13 GMT
Offside was brought in, I guess, to prevent one side from leaving someone up front shamelessly goal hanging thus forcing the other side to leave a couple of players back even when they were attacking. I don't suppose anyone envisaged the game of cat and mouse that subsequently ensued. I can't help thinking some suitable change to the offside rule would be better than shipping in a whole load of tech to prop it up! Yep, I think should be an advantage rule but where do you draw the line. The handball rule also needs clarifying and would love to see goalkeepers stop being over protected but won't happen. The NASL brought in the 25 yard think it was line to prevent teams playing high offside lines. At the time it was frowned upon but makes more sense now. |
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Post by dirtclod on Feb 18, 2022 19:30:30 GMT
Regardless of what they do with VAR, referee-training & performance needs reviewed. (Maybe pay levels too?)
There should be consequences for repeated bad-decisions like there are in every other job. Unfortunately if they applied that right now, we'd have no refs.
VAR was introduced due to a lack of confidence with referee decisions.
Not only do they blow calls on a routine basis, but often fail to maintain control of the match. Allowing themselves to be surrounded by griping players for minutes after a call could be remedied very quickly with a card. This would curtail the behavior and some of these "more whiney" teams would likely suffer 3 or more additional losses per season - oh how sad Bournemouth.
Football must take a long, hard look at referees. Some of them are very indecisive, suffer from conflict-avoidance syndrome, temporary blindness, occasional lapses of sanity and irrational behavior. Some crave attention and interfere constantly with a match, while others ignore dangerous play and allow matches to simmer just below the level of a brawl.
There are occasions where my jaded self wonders if organized-crime is fixing matches via the referees, because the only other possibility I can come up with is sheer stupidity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 19:45:35 GMT
No lines is the answer. If not clearly visible to the eye after a quick look then the decision stands.
Am all for VAR for dangerous play and we see it week in week out at our level. Is needed . Penalties also.
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