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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 11, 2022 9:04:23 GMT
But if he’s playing as one of two he has to offer something defensively and he simply hasn’t. Which has been disappointing. As an alternative to Powell I think I’d be happy with him. But he shouldn’t be used deeper. Agree with this. It’s the manager who chooses to give him a defensive roll but that is him playing out of position. He can’t defend so don’t give him defensive duties.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 11, 2022 9:33:32 GMT
Strange season from Vrancic. First half season he was involved in virtually everything good we did. Second half of the season he just seems to have become anonymous. Not sure what sort of money he’s on but if it’s a lot I think I’d be tempted to cut him loose and look for a younger, cheaper creative midfielder. Second half of the season he's been coming back from a bad injury and is only now coming back to full fitness. He's also come back into the team during our worst run of results. It's quite telling that the only game in the last 4 he hasn't played was Reading away - where we lost. I think some people thought Vrancic was just going to be cover for Powell and can't adjust to the fact that he's been one of our best players all season and worthy of a place in the starting 11 on merit. I don't know what his stats are but I wouldn't be surprised if he has the highest win ratio of all the players in the squad. I really can't see any reason not to extend his contract. His attacking stats have really dried up that's why you're having to resort to win ratio with him in the team which is almost meaningless. You'd credit him with a win vs Sheff Utd when we hardly looked like scoring whilst he was on the pitch. I really like what he showed he's capable of in the first half of the season but players, particularly players on big wages have to keep producing and maybe the dynamic of the team has changed with the introduction of Baker. I just don't think we can afford to have players on big wages playing bit part roles.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 11, 2022 10:23:11 GMT
Second half of the season he's been coming back from a bad injury and is only now coming back to full fitness. He's also come back into the team during our worst run of results. It's quite telling that the only game in the last 4 he hasn't played was Reading away - where we lost. I think some people thought Vrancic was just going to be cover for Powell and can't adjust to the fact that he's been one of our best players all season and worthy of a place in the starting 11 on merit. I don't know what his stats are but I wouldn't be surprised if he has the highest win ratio of all the players in the squad. I really can't see any reason not to extend his contract. His attacking stats have really dried up that's why you're having to resort to win ratio with him in the team which is almost meaningless. You'd credit him with a win vs Sheff Utd when we hardly looked like scoring whilst he was on the pitch. I really like what he showed he's capable of in the first half of the season but players, particularly players on big wages have to keep producing and maybe the dynamic of the team has changed with the introduction of Baker. I just don't think we can afford to have players on big wages playing bit part roles. He's only played "bit part roles" since his injury and that's because he's still regaining full match fitness and being eased back in - for much of the season he's been one of the first on the team sheet. And as to wages - he's on £11,000 per week which is about average for the current squad and nowhere near our biggest earners.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 11, 2022 14:09:32 GMT
His attacking stats have really dried up that's why you're having to resort to win ratio with him in the team which is almost meaningless. You'd credit him with a win vs Sheff Utd when we hardly looked like scoring whilst he was on the pitch. I really like what he showed he's capable of in the first half of the season but players, particularly players on big wages have to keep producing and maybe the dynamic of the team has changed with the introduction of Baker. I just don't think we can afford to have players on big wages playing bit part roles. He's only played "bit part roles" since his injury and that's because he's still regaining full match fitness and being eased back in - for much of the season he's been one of the first on the team sheet. And as to wages - he's on £11,000 per week which is about average for the current squad and nowhere near our biggest earners. Thought he'd be on more. If we can justify that on someone who is not an automatic starter I'd keep him but our wagebill is still far too high and sacrifices are going to have to be made somewhere.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Apr 11, 2022 17:45:16 GMT
He's only played "bit part roles" since his injury and that's because he's still regaining full match fitness and being eased back in - for much of the season he's been one of the first on the team sheet. And as to wages - he's on £11,000 per week which is about average for the current squad and nowhere near our biggest earners. Thought he'd be on more. If we can justify that on someone who is not an automatic starter I'd keep him but our wagebill is still far too high and sacrifices are going to have to be made somewhere. Our wage bill won't be too high next season, no player will be on a contract more than 2 years old and we have been much more frugal on wages in that period. If the EFL's wage cap comes in then the average wage we can pay will be around the figure quoted for Vrancic.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 11, 2022 17:55:40 GMT
Thought he'd be on more. If we can justify that on someone who is not an automatic starter I'd keep him but our wagebill is still far too high and sacrifices are going to have to be made somewhere. Our wage bill won't be too high next season, no player will be on a contract more than 2 years old and we have been much more frugal on wages in that period. If the EFL's wage cap comes in then the average wage we can pay will be around the figure quoted for Vrancic. I'm pretty sure it still will be, we might have been being much more frugal compared to how we had been but in relation to our turnover it still is and will remain completely ridiculous. Something quite drastic needs doing about championship clubs finances. Problem is much like Stoke changing manager they're much more likely to get it wrong than right.
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Post by lordb on Apr 11, 2022 18:23:24 GMT
Our wage bill won't be too high next season, no player will be on a contract more than 2 years old and we have been much more frugal on wages in that period. If the EFL's wage cap comes in then the average wage we can pay will be around the figure quoted for Vrancic. I'm pretty sure it still will be, we might have been being much more frugal compared to how we had been but in relation to our turnover it still is and will remain completely ridiculous. Something quite drastic needs doing about championship clubs finances. Problem is much like Stoke changing manager they're much more likely to get it wrong than right. It's nearly half what is was under Rowett and Jones Not sure where that puts us compared to the division generally
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 11, 2022 18:30:57 GMT
I'm pretty sure it still will be, we might have been being much more frugal compared to how we had been but in relation to our turnover it still is and will remain completely ridiculous. Something quite drastic needs doing about championship clubs finances. Problem is much like Stoke changing manager they're much more likely to get it wrong than right. It's nearly half what is was under Rowett and Jones Not sure where that puts us compared to the division generally With Allen 50k, Ince 27k,Smith 17k,Chester 15k, Fletcher 13k off the books this summer and if we can ditch Clucas 23k as well that’s almost £150k a week less. I know they need to be replaced and I suspect Baker’s on a fair wedge but even factoring them in we will be saving at least 75k a week or nearly £4m a year.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 11, 2022 19:48:57 GMT
It's nearly half what is was under Rowett and Jones Not sure where that puts us compared to the division generally With Allen 50k, Ince 27k,Smith 17k,Chester 15k, Fletcher 13k off the books this summer and if we can ditch Clucas 23k as well that’s almost £150k a week less. I know they need to be replaced and I suspect Baker’s on a fair wedge but even factoring them in we will be saving at least 75k a week or nearly £4m a year. I take it you work in the clubs payroll department
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Post by tachyon on Apr 13, 2022 10:35:24 GMT
Also took a look at RS's defensive output in the Championship & PL.
From 2016/17 to 2017/18 he played for Brentford as an advanced MF across the width of the field. Much more active in the attacking half.
2018/17 he dropped deeper to replace the output of departed RW. So more central and equally active in the attacking and defensive 3rd.
Reprised that role in 2019/20 for WBA.
Similar but (forced) deeper in 2020/21 PL.
Reprised his 2018/19 role, but very right centric.
How's he defended.
Bulk of his defensive work has revolved around blocking and interception stuff. Top third for his team mates once opportunity/position has been allowed for these type of actions.
This is backed up by his defensive data from the PL. He's credited with around 6 ball recoveries per full game as part of a pressing unit.
Aside from 2019/20, he's not an out and out tackler.
Finally, he does help the defensive effort by being an extremely safe outlet. Shows most often to receive a pass and retains it more than his team mates.
Most of even his defensive strengths have fallen at Stoke, but there is a defensive contributor in there. Just not the old fashioned one that some crave.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 13, 2022 10:47:58 GMT
Also took a look at RS's defensive output in the Championship & PL. From 2016/17 to 2017/18 he played for Brentford as an advanced MF across the width of the field. Much more active in the attacking half. 2018/17 he dropped deeper to replace the output of departed RW. So more central and equally active in the attacking and defensive 3rd. Reprised that role in 2019/20 for WBA. Similar but (forced) deeper in 2020/21 PL. Reprised his 2018/19 role, but very right centric. How's he defended. Bulk of his defensive work has revolved around blocking and interception stuff. Top third for his team mates once opportunity/position has been allowed for these type of actions. This is backed up by his defensive data from the PL. He's credited with around 6 ball recoveries per full game as part of a pressing unit. Aside from 2019/20, he's not an out and out tackler. Finally, he does help the defensive effort by being an extremely safe outlet. Shows most often to receive a pass and retains it more than his team mates. Most of even his defensive strengths have fallen at Stoke, but there is a defensive contributor in there. Just not the old fashioned one that some crave. I'd rather rely on what my eyes have seen in a Stoke strip. Certain aspects of his game are completely abject and his stronger attributes are not enough to counterbalance. For this league, for this team I'd prefer a more physical player.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 13, 2022 10:55:32 GMT
You couldn't play a midfield three of him, Baker and Powell, so not sure where he fits in. He's had his best years too so would prefer us to look elsewhere.
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Post by bolders on Apr 13, 2022 12:37:07 GMT
He would be my Powell replacement, for the inevitable 2/3rds of a season when Powell is either injured or coming back from injury 🤣. But we would need a more defensive minded CM in that 3 to complement them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 15:36:11 GMT
He would be my Powell replacement, for the inevitable 2/3rds of a season when Powell is either injured or coming back from injury 🤣. But we would need a more defensive minded CM in that 3 to complement them. The Powell always injured 'myth'. He's missed very few games through injury with us until this season and then probably because he was rushed back too soon after a fracture.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 13, 2022 15:57:29 GMT
He would be my Powell replacement, for the inevitable 2/3rds of a season when Powell is either injured or coming back from injury 🤣. But we would need a more defensive minded CM in that 3 to complement them. The Powell always injured 'myth'. He's missed very few games through injury with us until this season and then probably because he was rushed back too soon after a fracture. According to my calculation Powell has played in 61% of games in the last 2 seasons. I don't think he has been dropped by MON and this includes any suspensions, so he is missing nearly 40% of games through injury which is quite a chunk really
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Post by TinkerT on Apr 13, 2022 16:12:03 GMT
Him Powell and Mario are all similar players who should all be competing for the same spot. All 3 are bit part players because of the niggle injuries and out the 3 id say he's number 3. With us needing cut wages both him and Mario should go imo with clucas and get 3 younger replacements in, one of which should be Rothwell 🤞
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 16:34:28 GMT
The Powell always injured 'myth'. He's missed very few games through injury with us until this season and then probably because he was rushed back too soon after a fracture. According to my calculation Powell has played in 61% of games in the last 2 seasons. I don't think he has been dropped by MON and this includes any suspensions, so he is missing nearly 40% of games through injury which is quite a chunk really He played 38 out of 46 last season which is 82% and he didn't miss many the season before through injury once O'Neill came in. He was out of favour under Jones so it's difficult to get an exact record of games missed through injury. I think because he gets kicked a lot (and rolls around a lot to be fair) people have the impression he misses more games than he actually does.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 16:39:56 GMT
Him Powell and Mario are all similar players who should all be competing for the same spot. All 3 are bit part players because of the niggle injuries and out the 3 id say he's number 3. With us needing cut wages both him and Mario should go imo with clucas and get 3 younger replacements in, one of which should be Rothwell 🤞 Like Rothwell but surely we have no chance of getting him?
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 13, 2022 17:21:44 GMT
According to my calculation Powell has played in 61% of games in the last 2 seasons. I don't think he has been dropped by MON and this includes any suspensions, so he is missing nearly 40% of games through injury which is quite a chunk really He played 38 out of 46 last season which is 82% and he didn't miss many the season before through injury once O'Neill came in. He was out of favour under Jones so it's difficult to get an exact record of games missed through injury. I think because he gets kicked a lot (and rolls around a lot to be fair) people have the impression he misses more games than he actually does. I'm a big fan of Powell as I love creative players, but the stats suggest we definitely need a back up for that kind of player. I don't think Sawyers is a realistic backup as he will want to be playing regularly and should be playing with his ability, I think they are different players anyway, as is Vrancic, but we need to be on the look out for players who have the same impact as Powell. I take your point, he had a full season last time, but has only played 16 games this season but still been effective before he was injured first time around. I think Sawyers is a very effective player at this level if used well. We've seen glimpses I think.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 16:14:44 GMT
MOM today I thought. Everything good went through and he ran the show.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 23, 2022 16:16:05 GMT
MOM today I thought. Everything good went through and he ran the show. Played very well a close second to MOM after Brown. Do you think we have a good chance of signing Sawyers in the summer and would you?
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Post by mrrine on Apr 23, 2022 16:23:48 GMT
One of if not his best game(s) for us today.
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Post by biglad180 on Apr 23, 2022 16:24:49 GMT
MOM today I thought. Everything good went through and he ran the show. Played very well a close second to MOM after Brown. Do you think we have a good chance of signing Sawyers in the summer and would you? i would try keep him but i think he will go back to west brom
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 16:36:04 GMT
MOM today I thought. Everything good went through and he ran the show. Played very well a close second to MOM after Brown. Do you think we have a good chance of signing Sawyers in the summer and would you? Good goal by Brown but don’t think he did much else. If he’s on a free then possibly but he’ll quite rightly go where he can get the most money. Which would indicate it might not be us. If he’s not on a free then I think Bruce will keep him.
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Post by liathroid on Apr 23, 2022 16:49:57 GMT
Played very well a close second to MOM after Brown. Do you think we have a good chance of signing Sawyers in the summer and would you? Good goal by Brown but don’t think he did much else. If he’s on a free then possibly but he’ll quite rightly go where he can get the most money. Which would indicate it might not be us. If he’s not on a free then I think Bruce will keep him. think they have a 1 year option on him
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 23, 2022 16:56:36 GMT
Played very well a close second to MOM after Brown. Do you think we have a good chance of signing Sawyers in the summer and would you? Good goal by Brown but don’t think he did much else. If he’s on a free then possibly but he’ll quite rightly go where he can get the most money. Which would indicate it might not be us. If he’s not on a free then I think Bruce will keep him. He's out of contract but WBA have the option for an extra year
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 23, 2022 18:31:37 GMT
Some of his passes today were sublime, great to watch.
I’d keep him if we could, he cuts defences open like few others
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 23, 2022 18:37:28 GMT
Played very well a close second to MOM after Brown. Do you think we have a good chance of signing Sawyers in the summer and would you? Good goal by Brown but don’t think he did much else. If he’s on a free then possibly but he’ll quite rightly go where he can get the most money. Which would indicate it might not be us. If he’s not on a free then I think Bruce will keep him. I know it’s up to WBA whether they trigger the extension, but to an extent it’s also down to the player - i.e. if he wants to leave and cut ties, and makes that very clear, they’d be stupid keeping him on and taking up a squad place with a player who doesn’t want to be there (same with us and Powell really). I’d like to think that we would be trying to sign him.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 23, 2022 18:40:23 GMT
Some of his passes today were sublime, great to watch. I’d keep him if we could, he cuts defences open like few others We'd need to play a lot more counter-attacking football to get the most out of him, I feel. He has a great eye for a pass and he can hit them outside the box, but if we are going to try to sign him, you'd imagine it would be instead of Powell. He can't play deep and isn't much of a threat from dead balls, so we would have to maximise his passing range.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 23, 2022 20:24:16 GMT
He’s really good on the ball and uses it intelligently. It would be great if we can make the move permanent.
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