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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 12, 2022 21:49:15 GMT
So just come out and say 'FFP's a pain blah blah blah but because of our cost cutting ....we've worked with the EFL..... got it under control' etc etc etc. Just bland platitudes will do. But as Lord says if you leave a vacuum people will start to try and fill it. O want to see Coates in a 'Frankie Says FFP Sucks' T shirt . Didn't John Coates or was It Scholes say it sucked but we have to work with it at the microphone night? I know was a while back now You might be onto something there. They'd sell like hotcakes in the Championship.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 22:00:23 GMT
O want to see Coates in a 'Frankie Says FFP Sucks' T shirt . Didn't John Coates or was It Scholes say it sucked but we have to work with it at the microphone night? I know was a while back now You might be onto something there. They'd sell like hotcakes in the Championship. To be fair would have to clear it with Frankie first. They may approve of FFP. Wouldn't like to spread false info re their take on it
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 12, 2022 22:25:34 GMT
So just come out and say 'FFP's a pain blah blah blah but because of our cost cutting ....we've worked with the EFL..... got it under control' etc etc etc. Just bland platitudes will do. But as Lord says if you leave a vacuum people will start to try and fill it. The trouble is they really don’t know there’s no silver bullet that’ says your in the clear given the Exceptional results we’ve posted , a lot is riding on the next set of results the chief executive has made a mess of almost everything else it wouldn’t be a huge surprise if this bites us , but then again we may have a joker to play in the results I'm not having that mate. We don't produce our accounts and then just submit them to the EFL and hope for the best. Well I bloody hope we don't. We'll have been running the preliminary figures and hypothetical scenarios past them all the way through otherwise how can we possibly plan any kind of future strategy if we don't know until after they respond to our accounts in February? We'll know before we submit them whether they are acceptable Shirley. And the fact that we're obviously in the market for new players (even if it is ones replacing loans and players we've let go etc) is an indication we're not in too much trouble. Surely if we were close to breaching we'd have let Osti and Fielding go and NOT replaced them in order to save the wages. To replace them in those circumstances is taking the piss Derby style isn't it?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 12, 2022 22:57:59 GMT
The trouble is they really don’t know there’s no silver bullet that’ says your in the clear given the Exceptional results we’ve posted , a lot is riding on the next set of results the chief executive has made a mess of almost everything else it wouldn’t be a huge surprise if this bites us , but then again we may have a joker to play in the results I'm not having that mate. We don't produce our accounts and then just submit them to the EFL and hope for the best. Well I bloody hope we don't. We'll have been running the preliminary figures and hypothetical scenarios past them all the way through otherwise how can we possibly plan any kind of future strategy if we don't know until after they respond to our accounts in February? We'll know before we submit them whether they are acceptable Shirley. And the fact that we're obviously in the market for new players (even if it is ones replacing loans and players we've let go etc) is an indication we're not in too much trouble. Surely if we were close to breaching we'd have let Osti and Fielding go and NOT replaced them in order to save the wages. To replace them in those circumstances is taking the piss Derby style isn't it? Honest answer is I think it’s anyone’s guess we are run by very shrewd people and there’s only three or four who will have the inside track the rest are guessing
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 12, 2022 23:06:57 GMT
I'm not having that mate. We don't produce our accounts and then just submit them to the EFL and hope for the best. Well I bloody hope we don't. We'll have been running the preliminary figures and hypothetical scenarios past them all the way through otherwise how can we possibly plan any kind of future strategy if we don't know until after they respond to our accounts in February? We'll know before we submit them whether they are acceptable Shirley. And the fact that we're obviously in the market for new players (even if it is ones replacing loans and players we've let go etc) is an indication we're not in too much trouble. Surely if we were close to breaching we'd have let Osti and Fielding go and NOT replaced them in order to save the wages. To replace them in those circumstances is taking the piss Derby style isn't it? Honest answer is I think it’s anyone’s guess we are run by very shrewd people and there’s only three or four who will have the inside track the rest are guessing Exactly. But going on what happened last year where we obviously ran the accounts by the EFL way in advance of the deadline (May last year I think) so we knew they were going to approve them. So I would assume we've done the same this year. But as you say nobody knows because they never even throw us the smallest morsel.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 13, 2022 0:12:25 GMT
I'm not having that mate. We don't produce our accounts and then just submit them to the EFL and hope for the best. Well I bloody hope we don't. We'll have been running the preliminary figures and hypothetical scenarios past them all the way through otherwise how can we possibly plan any kind of future strategy if we don't know until after they respond to our accounts in February? We'll know before we submit them whether they are acceptable Shirley. And the fact that we're obviously in the market for new players (even if it is ones replacing loans and players we've let go etc) is an indication we're not in too much trouble. Surely if we were close to breaching we'd have let Osti and Fielding go and NOT replaced them in order to save the wages. To replace them in those circumstances is taking the piss Derby style isn't it? Honest answer is I think it’s anyone’s guess we are run by very shrewd people and there’s only three or four who will have the inside track the rest are guessing And the one that knows the most just jumped ship leaving PC and JC to figure it out.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 13, 2022 7:08:46 GMT
The trouble is they really don’t know there’s no silver bullet that’ says your in the clear given the Exceptional results we’ve posted , a lot is riding on the next set of results the chief executive has made a mess of almost everything else it wouldn’t be a huge surprise if this bites us , but then again we may have a joker to play in the results I'm not having that mate. We don't produce our accounts and then just submit them to the EFL and hope for the best. Well I bloody hope we don't. We'll have been running the preliminary figures and hypothetical scenarios past them all the way through otherwise how can we possibly plan any kind of future strategy if we don't know until after they respond to our accounts in February? We'll know before we submit them whether they are acceptable Shirley. And the fact that we're obviously in the market for new players (even if it is ones replacing loans and players we've let go etc) is an indication we're not in too much trouble. Surely if we were close to breaching we'd have let Osti and Fielding go and NOT replaced them in order to save the wages. To replace them in those circumstances is taking the piss Derby style isn't it? It stinks that even though we’re a well ran and rich club that we’re totally hamstrung re spending whilst the likes of Chelsea and Man C are able to stockpile players without any fear of punishment.
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Post by sportsman on Jan 13, 2022 7:11:40 GMT
I wish a load of clubs would get together and challenge FFP in court.
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Post by liathroid on Jan 13, 2022 7:46:10 GMT
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 13, 2022 8:04:58 GMT
To quote Mandy Rice Davis “ He would say that wouldn’t he “ , He has had riches beyond imagination for a club our size and on His commercial watch we have run up £200m of debt , got relegated and turned the 31st richest club in the world into a mid table championship club via a series of horrendous investment and recruitment mistakes that destroyed the legacy of our golden years , we are the top shop of the championship only the owners incredible attitude to the debt saves us from administration and best quite possibly liquidation . And he wants more investment due to the nasty guys at FFP which he was well aware of throughout , still at least as he says he is leaving us in a great position
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 13, 2022 8:13:45 GMT
There a lot in the media about apologies right now what may have been more appropriate is
I’m sorry to be leaving with the club not where we want it to be we’ve had some great times but on reflection we have made series mistakes in the last few years and that leaves the club with some series mountains to climb and clearly those decisions were made on my watch , I hope the supporters can remember the good times and i wish the club every success in overcoming those challenges and would like to thank the owners for their unstinting support
Instead we get
Leaving the club in a great position and it’s all the fault of FFP
Ps ( I hope the little covid ruse doesn’t bring the FFP house crashing down but if it does it’s because it’s a crap system nor]t because we’ve made a absolute horlicks of it )
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 13, 2022 8:42:16 GMT
To quote Mandy Rice Davis “ He would say that wouldn’t he “ , He has had riches beyond imagination for a club our size and on His commercial watch we have run up £200m of debt , got relegated and turned the 31st richest club in the world into a mid table championship club via a series of horrendous investment and recruitment mistakes that destroyed the legacy of our golden years , we are the top shop of the championship only the owners incredible attitude to the debt saves us from administration and best quite possibly liquidation . And he wants more investment due to the nasty guys at FFP which he was well aware of throughout , still at least as he says he is leaving us in a great position The owners employed him, they kept him here, they employed and indulged sub standard or out of date managers. They are the ultimate people to blame here. The Coates family. Quote Mark Hughes from the Coaches Voice "When I went to Stoke I had to set my own goals as I wasn't given any by the owners and directors" Good, honourable, decent people. Shoddy football club owners. Did he actually say that?
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 13, 2022 8:51:11 GMT
Honest answer is I think it’s anyone’s guess we are run by very shrewd people and there’s only three or four who will have the inside track the rest are guessing Exactly. But going on what happened last year where we obviously ran the accounts by the EFL way in advance of the deadline (May last year I think) so we knew they were going to approve them. So I would assume we've done the same this year. But as you say nobody knows because they never even throw us the smallest morsel. The club has a financial forecast model and clearly analyses all possible deals against this. This is also regularly reviewed by the EFL, with a formal review of this season’s forecast out turn and next season’s projections by March 1st. Last season’s audited exceptional write off has obviously been accepted, the unknown is will we try and push another write off in 2020/21. At the start of that season we had £20 million of player value in the books. Given the time profile of our spending, at least £10 million will show as a cost in 2020/21. If we could argue some of that £20 million was Covid related that would make the 2020/21 results healthier. In truth I don’t believe we could earn a fee for any of the players we have paid a fee for but it is not clear this is due to Covid. With the Collins fee, if we get through 2020/21, we should be fine
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 13, 2022 9:03:59 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 13, 2022 9:51:00 GMT
I'm not having that mate. We don't produce our accounts and then just submit them to the EFL and hope for the best. Well I bloody hope we don't. We'll have been running the preliminary figures and hypothetical scenarios past them all the way through otherwise how can we possibly plan any kind of future strategy if we don't know until after they respond to our accounts in February? We'll know before we submit them whether they are acceptable Shirley. And the fact that we're obviously in the market for new players (even if it is ones replacing loans and players we've let go etc) is an indication we're not in too much trouble. Surely if we were close to breaching we'd have let Osti and Fielding go and NOT replaced them in order to save the wages. To replace them in those circumstances is taking the piss Derby style isn't it? It stinks that even though we’re a well ran and rich club that we’re totally hamstrung re spending whilst the likes of Chelsea and Man C are able to stockpile players without any fear of punishment. Thats exactly the intention the old money clubs dont want to have to compete with new money hence the fought tooth and nail to stop the investment in jongleurs.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 13, 2022 9:59:21 GMT
To quote Mandy Rice Davis “ He would say that wouldn’t he “ , He has had riches beyond imagination for a club our size and on His commercial watch we have run up £200m of debt , got relegated and turned the 31st richest club in the world into a mid table championship club via a series of horrendous investment and recruitment mistakes that destroyed the legacy of our golden years , we are the top shop of the championship only the owners incredible attitude to the debt saves us from administration and best quite possibly liquidation . And he wants more investment due to the nasty guys at FFP which he was well aware of throughout , still at least as he says he is leaving us in a great position You don't half type some twaddle, surely if you are going to blame him for all that you should be thanking him for getting us promoted, the fa cup final, europe the 9th place finishes and originally making us the 31st richest club you don't because you know he has nothing to do with those achievements just has he has little to do with all the things you moan about, the club signed some shit players and made the biggest mistake in sacking Hughes in January rather than waiting till the end of the season and then followed that up with 3 terrible appointments, the people who made those decisions have literally paid a heavy price with their own money (it's quite endearing you think Scholes spends the money than the family pony up rather than the family approving all spending / budgets). There's plenty to criticise scholes for that was actually his job no need to make stuff up.
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Post by miggo on Jan 13, 2022 10:32:14 GMT
To quote Mandy Rice Davis “ He would say that wouldn’t he “ , He has had riches beyond imagination for a club our size and on His commercial watch we have run up £200m of debt , got relegated and turned the 31st richest club in the world into a mid table championship club via a series of horrendous investment and recruitment mistakes that destroyed the legacy of our golden years , we are the top shop of the championship only the owners incredible attitude to the debt saves us from administration and best quite possibly liquidation . And he wants more investment due to the nasty guys at FFP which he was well aware of throughout , still at least as he says he is leaving us in a great position You don't half type some twaddle, surely if you are going to blame him for all that you should be thanking him for getting us promoted, the fa cup final, europe the 9th place finishes and originally making us the 31st richest club you don't because you know he has nothing to do with those achievements just has he has little to do with all the things you moan about, the club signed some shit players and made the biggest mistake in sacking Hughes in January rather than waiting till the end of the season and then followed that up with 3 terrible appointments, the people who made those decisions have literally paid a heavy price with their own money (it's quite endearing you think Scholes spends the money than the family pony up rather than the family approving all spending / budgets). There's plenty to criticise scholes for that was actually his job no need to make stuff up. This. Tony Scholes is not perfect by any means and we might not like it but he is good at running the business financially despite some poor investments whilst trying to back his manager. My concern moving forward is that we have gone from a team of: Pulis: who was a good manager on a budget Scholes : good at managing the financials on a budget. Coates Snr: Good at running a business and creating a culture at the club. And moving too: MON: Who due to the last 5 years is operating on no budget. CEO: Soon to be a vacant position and is not being replaced. Coates Jnr: Hasnt a clue how to run a bath let alone a business. FFP issues are one thing but the structure of the club above the playing side of things is abysmal. You can have all the money in the world but without a building a structure, creating a culture and operating your business plan by having good leadership throughout the business we will more than likely go backwards at best standing still.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 13, 2022 10:46:45 GMT
You don't half type some twaddle, surely if you are going to blame him for all that you should be thanking him for getting us promoted, the fa cup final, europe the 9th place finishes and originally making us the 31st richest club you don't because you know he has nothing to do with those achievements just has he has little to do with all the things you moan about, the club signed some shit players and made the biggest mistake in sacking Hughes in January rather than waiting till the end of the season and then followed that up with 3 terrible appointments, the people who made those decisions have literally paid a heavy price with their own money (it's quite endearing you think Scholes spends the money than the family pony up rather than the family approving all spending / budgets). There's plenty to criticise scholes for that was actually his job no need to make stuff up. This. Tony Scholes is not perfect by any means and we might not like it but he is good at running the business financially despite some poor investments whilst trying to back his manager. My concern moving forward is that we have gone from a team of: Pulis: who was a good manager on a budget Scholes : good at managing the financials on a budget. Coates Snr: Good at running a business and creating a culture at the club. And moving too: MON: Who due to the last 5 years is operating on no budget. CEO: Soon to be a vacant position and is not being replaced. Coates Jnr: Hasnt a clue how to run a bath let alone a business. FFP issues are one thing but the structure of the club above the playing side of things is abysmal. You can have all the money in the world but without a building a structure, creating a culture and operating your business plan by having good leadership throughout the business we will more than likely go backwards at best standing still. Understand what you are saying but I'd argue Pulis was an average manager on a good budget Coates Snr was good at running a business once his daughter had made him the cash to spend which coincided with 2 successful managerial appointments in Pulis / Hughes before that Macari was probably his only real success, so I dont have any worries over Jnr he will be no different in that he will probably appoint more poor managers than good ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 10:56:03 GMT
This. Tony Scholes is not perfect by any means and we might not like it but he is good at running the business financially despite some poor investments whilst trying to back his manager. My concern moving forward is that we have gone from a team of: Pulis: who was a good manager on a budget Scholes : good at managing the financials on a budget. Coates Snr: Good at running a business and creating a culture at the club. And moving too: MON: Who due to the last 5 years is operating on no budget. CEO: Soon to be a vacant position and is not being replaced. Coates Jnr: Hasnt a clue how to run a bath let alone a business. FFP issues are one thing but the structure of the club above the playing side of things is abysmal. You can have all the money in the world but without a building a structure, creating a culture and operating your business plan by having good leadership throughout the business we will more than likely go backwards at best standing still. Understand what you are saying but I'd argue Pulis was an average manager on a good budget Coates Snr was good at running a business once his daughter had made him the cash to spend which coincided with 2 successful managerial appointments in Pulis / Hughes before that Macari was probably his only real success, so I dont have any worries over Jnr he will be no different in that he will probably appoint more poor managers than good ones. Impossible to day. Some managers click at clubs Average managers don't get teams promoted and keep them in the Premier League and turn over some teams with far bigger budgets It's easy to say X and y manager would have been a good appointment when you can never tell. So many managers who do well at one club flop at another. A lot of the time a managerial appointment can be quite fortunate . When we moved to the Brit Moxey desperately wanted Bruce Rioch, Coates wanted Beardsley . Often wonder how they would have worked out. Beardsley went to France with his family to think it over then said no after we'd banked on him saying yes , Rioch was never really a goer.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jan 13, 2022 17:09:27 GMT
This. Tony Scholes is not perfect by any means and we might not like it but he is good at running the business financially despite some poor investments whilst trying to back his manager. My concern moving forward is that we have gone from a team of: Pulis: who was a good manager on a budget Scholes : good at managing the financials on a budget. Coates Snr: Good at running a business and creating a culture at the club. And moving too: MON: Who due to the last 5 years is operating on no budget. CEO: Soon to be a vacant position and is not being replaced. Coates Jnr: Hasnt a clue how to run a bath let alone a business. FFP issues are one thing but the structure of the club above the playing side of things is abysmal. You can have all the money in the world but without a building a structure, creating a culture and operating your business plan by having good leadership throughout the business we will more than likely go backwards at best standing still. Understand what you are saying but I'd argue Pulis was an average manager on a good budget Coates Snr was good at running a business once his daughter had made him the cash to spend which coincided with 2 successful managerial appointments in Pulis / Hughes before that Macari was probably his only real success, so I dont have any worries over Jnr he will be no different in that he will probably appoint more poor managers than good ones. It amuses me that John Coates is ridicules at every opportunity (maybe justifiably, maybe not) yet Peter is held on a pedestal as a brilliant business brain. People either werent around or have forgotten how we were run before the Icelanders rocked up. Pretty bloody shoddily I might add. In fact if he hadnt stumbled on Lou I dread to think where we’d have ended up
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 13, 2022 17:12:35 GMT
To quote Mandy Rice Davis “ He would say that wouldn’t he “ , He has had riches beyond imagination for a club our size and on His commercial watch we have run up £200m of debt , got relegated and turned the 31st richest club in the world into a mid table championship club via a series of horrendous investment and recruitment mistakes that destroyed the legacy of our golden years , we are the top shop of the championship only the owners incredible attitude to the debt saves us from administration and best quite possibly liquidation . And he wants more investment due to the nasty guys at FFP which he was well aware of throughout , still at least as he says he is leaving us in a great position You don't half type some twaddle, surely if you are going to blame him for all that you should be thanking him for getting us promoted, the fa cup final, europe the 9th place finishes and originally making us the 31st richest club you don't because you know he has nothing to do with those achievements just has he has little to do with all the things you moan about, the club signed some shit players and made the biggest mistake in sacking Hughes in January rather than waiting till the end of the season and then followed that up with 3 terrible appointments, the people who made those decisions have literally paid a heavy price with their own money (it's quite endearing you think Scholes spends the money than the family pony up rather than the family approving all spending / budgets). There's plenty to criticise scholes for that was actually his job no need to make stuff up. What do you hold him Responsible for as chief executive as your saying he has literally no accountability for anything despite being paid 800k a year , I did acknowledge the good times but the last 5 years have been a financial disaster and that’s his supposed area of expertise
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 13, 2022 20:18:24 GMT
You don't half type some twaddle, surely if you are going to blame him for all that you should be thanking him for getting us promoted, the fa cup final, europe the 9th place finishes and originally making us the 31st richest club you don't because you know he has nothing to do with those achievements just has he has little to do with all the things you moan about, the club signed some shit players and made the biggest mistake in sacking Hughes in January rather than waiting till the end of the season and then followed that up with 3 terrible appointments, the people who made those decisions have literally paid a heavy price with their own money (it's quite endearing you think Scholes spends the money than the family pony up rather than the family approving all spending / budgets). There's plenty to criticise scholes for that was actually his job no need to make stuff up. What do you hold him Responsible for as chief executive as your saying he has literally no accountability for anything despite being paid 800k a year , I did acknowledge the good times but the last 5 years have been a financial disaster and that’s his supposed area of expertise £800k for a ceo, chief scout and coach is a pretty shit salary when you consider we pay some bloke a few million to just speak to the tv and radio and get the players to run up and down, there really isn't much point in attempting a serious discussion if you are that naive that you don't recognise the the reason for the financial disaster is relegation, appointing poor managers who signed some incredibly underperforming and overpriced players, his role in that would be to model / give the information to the family on how that impacts the numbers and ffp, the general matchday experience is pretty average he could have done more to improve that but on the important stuff we seem to have dealt with a massive fall in income without having to hold a fire sale.
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Post by miggo on Jan 13, 2022 20:26:19 GMT
You don't half type some twaddle, surely if you are going to blame him for all that you should be thanking him for getting us promoted, the fa cup final, europe the 9th place finishes and originally making us the 31st richest club you don't because you know he has nothing to do with those achievements just has he has little to do with all the things you moan about, the club signed some shit players and made the biggest mistake in sacking Hughes in January rather than waiting till the end of the season and then followed that up with 3 terrible appointments, the people who made those decisions have literally paid a heavy price with their own money (it's quite endearing you think Scholes spends the money than the family pony up rather than the family approving all spending / budgets). There's plenty to criticise scholes for that was actually his job no need to make stuff up. What do you hold him Responsible for as chief executive as your saying he has literally no accountability for anything despite being paid 800k a year , I did acknowledge the good times but the last 5 years have been a financial disaster and that’s his supposed area of expertise He was in a no win situation. Coates family happy to sign the checks and recent managers were brought in under the condition of signing their own players. Dont get me wrong some awful deals were done and he holds some responsibility for that but as a club from the very top down it stinks. There has been no plan, vision, culture being set since PC left Jr to run the club and Tony Scholes has not been managed since but is the only consistant trying to hold the parts together. From what I understand the club is ran like a boys club not a business at the moment with many at the club frustrated at how things are being run. The kit reveal is indicative of everything going on at the club in recent years. Rushed, half arsed, slap dash and just fucking shit. TS certainly is in part to blame with the owners and the managers equally but I guarantee not filling that position is going to be a decision up there with hiring Lambert as the one of the worst in the clubs history.
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Post by miggo on Jan 13, 2022 20:36:39 GMT
Understand what you are saying but I'd argue Pulis was an average manager on a good budget Coates Snr was good at running a business once his daughter had made him the cash to spend which coincided with 2 successful managerial appointments in Pulis / Hughes before that Macari was probably his only real success, so I dont have any worries over Jnr he will be no different in that he will probably appoint more poor managers than good ones. It amuses me that John Coates is ridicules at every opportunity (maybe justifiably, maybe not) yet Peter is held on a pedestal as a brilliant business brain. People either werent around or have forgotten how we were run before the Icelanders rocked up. Pretty bloody shoddily I might add. In fact if he hadnt stumbled on Lou I dread to think where we’d have ended up The difference being having the wealth to run a club just to get by and having the wealth of a small country is huge. The kind of wealth, power and influence he had 2nd time around does not just mean he was a better chairman than previously but it allows you to bring in the right people in and around the club to help raise every dept. Not too different from how and why the parent company are just as succesful. Clearly lessons were learnt along the way. The problem Jr was not a leading voice in either companies rise and just took the pay check and adulation of being part of the family. The moment he is responsible it falls apart. Who knows maybe in 20 years he will have learned tge lessons his father did and be better but right now the apprentice has been handed ownership of a club without completing an induction.
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Post by bloodtypered on Jan 13, 2022 20:40:10 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jan 13, 2022 20:45:59 GMT
Glad the old Chief executive has left us in such a good place.
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 13, 2022 20:52:07 GMT
It’s old news really
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Post by bolders on Jan 13, 2022 20:57:14 GMT
It’s speculation nothing else, click bait
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 13, 2022 20:57:52 GMT
Fuck it.. spend BIG in this transfer window then
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Post by ersaurebot 1, 000, 000 views on Jan 13, 2022 21:00:59 GMT
It’s bull shit
All the FA have to do is ask us for the pints back and we’d happily surrender them to them, no need to go through FFP
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