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Post by PotterLog on Oct 31, 2021 13:15:24 GMT
Jesus Christ I’d do anything to have Gunn as an option now. I’d like to think everyone on here would deep down. Davies was way, way wanker than Bursik has been, including yesterday’s mistake. Gunn is better than both of them. Stoke fans do not fucking understand goalkeepers for some weird reason That's just the issue though isn't it? Davies isn't way wanker than Bursik, there is nothing between them ability wise. I would suggest the three recent glaring errors from Bursik was way wanker than anything Davies has managed when he's played. Whenever Davies has a wobble he's a shit keeper, when the same happens with Bursik he's a young keeper with potential!! Isn’t that a sensible context to see it in? Bursik is still learning, Davies is pushing 30?, he’s just a rubbish goalie. And I disagree, Davies has been considerably worse. Aside from the errors Bursik has looked solid and has areas where he excels. Davies looks persistently shaky and inspires no confidence whatsoever.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 31, 2021 13:47:20 GMT
Will changing the keeper help? When you have poor defenders in front of you making silly mistakes, even G Banks would struggle.
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Post by fca47 on Oct 31, 2021 18:16:28 GMT
Would Tim Krul be good enough in January? See his almost identical error today. They all make mistakes.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 31, 2021 18:23:16 GMT
The best keeper I’ve seen in our league this season is the lad at Preston who’s on loan from Leicester. There’s good keepers out there and we’ve had more than our fair share of decent ones over the years.
One things for sure though, and that’s that these two current incumbents are costing us every week and will probably continue to do so. They need replacing in January.
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Post by stokesaint1 on Oct 31, 2021 18:56:35 GMT
I've watched two prem games today and three of the four goalkeepers involved made mistakes that led to goals. The bottom line is that ALL keepers make mistakes but because of their position and what usually results, they get put under the microscope and hammered. People need to lay off keepers like Bursik and understand he's young and learning his trade and currently in an environment where his team mates are sadly letting him down. He made some excellent saves in the last couple of games but again the concentration is on the mistake. Perhaps we should start concentrating on and continually highlighting our outfield players mistakes, because there are a damn sight more of them, from our team, than there are from our keepers. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. And I don't think Joe Bursik would get any stones thrown from the rest of our squad as it currently stands. We have far more urgent needs come January than a keeper.
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Post by MilanStokie on Nov 1, 2021 16:20:51 GMT
I honestly cannot believe what I had read in this thread.
Calling Bursik shit because he made a mistake, which all keepers do...
The lad has had an excellent run since his debut, has bundles of potential and will either be sold for a lot of money or establish himself here as the number 1.
Some of his saves at 3-0, people were saying how brilliant he was. He makes a mistake and all of sudden its a case of buying a new keeper ASAP????
I know football fans are fickle and Stoke seem to have more than most but jesus christ some of you need to wake up, the overreaction and exaggeration is pathetic.
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Post by TinkerT on Nov 1, 2021 16:38:00 GMT
I honestly cannot believe what I had read in this thread. Calling Bursik shit because he made a mistake, which all keepers do... The lad has had an excellent run since his debut, has bundles of potential and will either be sold for a lot of money or establish himself here as the number 1. Some of his saves at 3-0, people were saying how brilliant he was. He makes a mistake and all of sudden its a case of buying a new keeper ASAP???? I know football fans are fickle and Stoke seem to have more than most but jesus christ some of you need to wake up, the overreaction and exaggeration is pathetic. I'm a fan of both bursik and Davies and it's the last position I'd sign anyone in. Yes they make mistakes but which goalkeepers don't? It's all about confidence.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 1, 2021 16:52:53 GMT
We need to stick with Bursik, he's young and he'll make mistakes but Davies may not even be here after January if there's no sign of him being offered a contract......
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Post by tejstokie on Nov 1, 2021 16:56:59 GMT
The best keeper I’ve seen in our league this season is the lad at Preston who’s on loan from Leicester. There’s good keepers out there and we’ve had more than our fair share of decent ones over the years. One things for sure though, and that’s that these two current incumbents are costing us every week and will probably continue to do so. They need replacing in January. The whole, "Bursik is still learning" is complete horseshit. If he can't know to stay in goal, shift sideways and plant his feet he is never going to learn and the sooner people realize he just isn't good the better. We can't afford to have a wank keeper in the championship each week. He should "learn" in the reserves.
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Post by tejstokie on Nov 1, 2021 16:59:39 GMT
The best keeper I’ve seen in our league this season is the lad at Preston who’s on loan from Leicester. There’s good keepers out there and we’ve had more than our fair share of decent ones over the years. One things for sure though, and that’s that these two current incumbents are costing us every week and will probably continue to do so. They need replacing in January. That Preston keeper is far better than Bursik or Davies, he stays on his line and reads what is in front of him.
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Post by Squeekster on Nov 1, 2021 17:04:32 GMT
I honestly cannot believe what I had read in this thread. Calling Bursik shit because he made a mistake, which all keepers do... The lad has had an excellent run since his debut, has bundles of potential and will either be sold for a lot of money or establish himself here as the number 1. Some of his saves at 3-0, people were saying how brilliant he was. He makes a mistake and all of sudden its a case of buying a new keeper ASAP???? I know football fans are fickle and Stoke seem to have more than most but jesus christ some of you need to wake up, the overreaction and exaggeration is pathetic. It's not a mistake though is it, between them they have cost us several times this season all ready.
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Post by tejstokie on Nov 1, 2021 17:23:30 GMT
I honestly cannot believe what I had read in this thread. Calling Bursik shit because he made a mistake, which all keepers do... The lad has had an excellent run since his debut, has bundles of potential and will either be sold for a lot of money or establish himself here as the number 1. Some of his saves at 3-0, people were saying how brilliant he was. He makes a mistake and all of sudden its a case of buying a new keeper ASAP???? I know football fans are fickle and Stoke seem to have more than most but jesus christ some of you need to wake up, the overreaction and exaggeration is pathetic. It's not a mistake though is it, between them they have cost us several times this season all ready. The amount of goals those two have let in from Stoke having leading postions is criminal. I honestly can't believe people are defending that horseshit. One is young blah blah, one is past his prime wha wha, lets be honest. They'are supposed professional football players who are sub par to the standard needed. Continuing to lie to ourselves a run of games is going to turn around weekly errors is just unrealistic. If it was a single match, fine there could be overreaction but this is literally the entire season to date now which has cost several goals to our goal difference and even league position now.
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Post by Picasso on Nov 1, 2021 17:42:30 GMT
Some middle ground is needed here.
Bursik IS learning and I think think he’ll become a much better keeper, in time, but if we are going to push for a play-off position this season,* we need better, with Bursik as back up. I actually don’t mind Davies too much either, but I’d say that he needs to make room for an upgrade on our current goalkeeping situation.
*Not suggesting this is all that’s needed for a play-off push.
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Post by tejstokie on Nov 1, 2021 17:57:04 GMT
Some middle ground is needed here. Bursik IS learning and I think think he’ll become a much better keeper, in time, but if we are going to push for a play-off position this season,* we need better, with Bursik as back up. I actually don’t mind Davies too much either, but I’d say that he needs to make room for an upgrade on our current goalkeeping situation. *Not suggesting this is all that’s needed for a play-off push. Nobody is saying he isn't young and needs games, problem is he should be learning behind a real competent goalie and get time in the reserves or on loan. If MON continues with these goalie lessons at the expense of league position and goal difference, a few weeks to months from now people are going to start the relegation threads. You can blame the midfield, defense all you want but when howlers like these two let in each week and nothing is done to remedy it. There is no middle ground, it is a managerial mistake. He tried the goalie rochambeau, it failed. He should persist with Bursik until Jan and then bring in a better keeper for right now not 3-5 years from now.
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Post by Picasso on Nov 1, 2021 18:01:35 GMT
Some middle ground is needed here. Bursik IS learning and I think think he’ll become a much better keeper, in time, but if we are going to push for a play-off position this season,* we need better, with Bursik as back up. I actually don’t mind Davies too much either, but I’d say that he needs to make room for an upgrade on our current goalkeeping situation. *Not suggesting this is all that’s needed for a play-off push. Nobody is saying he isn't young and needs games, problem is he should be learning behind a real competent goalie and get time in the reserves or on loan. If MON continues with these goalie lessons at the expense of league position and goal difference, a few weeks to months from now people are going to start the relegation threads. You can blame the midfield, defense all you want but when howlers like these two let in each week and nothing is done to remedy it. There is no middle ground, it is a managerial mistake. He tried the goalie rochambeau, it failed. He should persist with Bursik until Jan and then bring in a better keeper for right now not 3-5 years from now. I think you’ve misread my post as you seem to be agreeing with me that a better keeper is needed and Bursik should be a back up (on the bench / in the reserves). I haven’t commented on the defence and midfield. The middle ground I was referring to was between the polar opposites of views on this thread.
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Post by tejstokie on Nov 1, 2021 18:13:36 GMT
Nobody is saying he isn't young and needs games, problem is he should be learning behind a real competent goalie and get time in the reserves or on loan. If MON continues with these goalie lessons at the expense of league position and goal difference, a few weeks to months from now people are going to start the relegation threads. You can blame the midfield, defense all you want but when howlers like these two let in each week and nothing is done to remedy it. There is no middle ground, it is a managerial mistake. He tried the goalie rochambeau, it failed. He should persist with Bursik until Jan and then bring in a better keeper for right now not 3-5 years from now. I think you’ve misread my post as you seem to be agreeing with me that a better keeper is needed and Bursik should be a back up (on the bench / in the reserves). I haven’t commented on the defence and midfield. The middle ground I was referring to was between the polar opposites of views on this thread. Well, middle ground around here is usually "common sense" so I give you that. But with that said normally you apply the same standard to all positions on the field, yet that isn't the case on the oatcake. For some obscure unknown reason Bursik is allowed some horrendous leeway my favorite is, "he's learning" or "he's young." Yet this same standard doesn't apply to other young players in midfield or defense like say Wilmot or Thompson. I agree with you on he should be behind a capable goalkeeper. My comment on the midfield is to those who like to lay blame that this is the main reason our keepers have errors each week which is absurd and even if the midfield was amazing, (which it is far from it with Allen in there). It doesn't negate the fact Bursik and Davies are sub-par goalies in this league at the moment and have been most of this season. Yes they each have a good game or two but the amount of errors and mistakes is beyond normal or even acceptable to maintain any league position.
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Post by Picasso on Nov 1, 2021 18:37:51 GMT
It’s a shame that certain types of players don’t get as much leeway as others, but then again you could argue that some get too much leeway - What were we saying about middle ground again? 😉
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Post by MilanStokie on Nov 1, 2021 19:58:16 GMT
I honestly cannot believe what I had read in this thread. Calling Bursik shit because he made a mistake, which all keepers do... The lad has had an excellent run since his debut, has bundles of potential and will either be sold for a lot of money or establish himself here as the number 1. Some of his saves at 3-0, people were saying how brilliant he was. He makes a mistake and all of sudden its a case of buying a new keeper ASAP???? I know football fans are fickle and Stoke seem to have more than most but jesus christ some of you need to wake up, the overreaction and exaggeration is pathetic. It's not a mistake though is it, between them they have cost us several times this season all ready. It's not solely the keepers fault. Can't blame bursik for 2 of Cardiff's goals can you?
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Post by liathroid on Nov 1, 2021 20:01:08 GMT
who is this new goalkeeper
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Post by MilanStokie on Nov 1, 2021 20:02:40 GMT
The best keeper I’ve seen in our league this season is the lad at Preston who’s on loan from Leicester. There’s good keepers out there and we’ve had more than our fair share of decent ones over the years. One things for sure though, and that’s that these two current incumbents are costing us every week and will probably continue to do so. They need replacing in January. The whole, "Bursik is still learning" is complete horseshit. If he can't know to stay in goal, shift sideways and plant his feet he is never going to learn and the sooner people realize he just isn't good the better. We can't afford to have a wank keeper in the championship each week. He should "learn" in the reserves. You mean the sooner people agree with YOUR opinion? In MY opinion, Bursik is a very good keeper, with huge potential of which I hope Stoke help him to realise. There's nothing wrong with how he plays, he's had a couple of mistakes (naturally given his age) but generally speaking he has been absolutely fine.
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Post by a on Nov 1, 2021 20:08:41 GMT
The funny thing is I recall Davies making a mistake and calls for him to be dropped and vice Versa with Bursik. I’d stick with Davies now for a run of games, rather than swapping every other week. Not sure if we need a replacement then that’s more money spent elsewhere… I’m not sure.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 1, 2021 20:10:19 GMT
The whole, "Bursik is still learning" is complete horseshit. If he can't know to stay in goal, shift sideways and plant his feet he is never going to learn and the sooner people realize he just isn't good the better. We can't afford to have a wank keeper in the championship each week. He should "learn" in the reserves. You mean the sooner people agree with YOUR opinion? In MY opinion, Bursik is a very good keeper, with huge potential of which I hope Stoke help him to realise. There's nothing wrong with how he plays, he's had a couple of mistakes (naturally given his age) but generally speaking he has been absolutely fine. I’m not convinced with him at all tbh but he’s clearly got a lot of promise. If I was his agent I’d be doing everything to get him away from this club. It’s not the right environment for him. And I say that with absolute regret.
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Post by MilanStokie on Nov 1, 2021 20:32:16 GMT
You mean the sooner people agree with YOUR opinion? In MY opinion, Bursik is a very good keeper, with huge potential of which I hope Stoke help him to realise. There's nothing wrong with how he plays, he's had a couple of mistakes (naturally given his age) but generally speaking he has been absolutely fine. I’m not convinced with him at all tbh but he’s clearly got a lot of promise. If I was his agent I’d be doing everything to get him away from this club. It’s not the right environment for him. And I say that with absolute regret. I don't see how its not the right environment. The policy right now is about pushing youth through. Half the squad is under 25 and its a better time than I can ever remember for a young player to thrive at Stoke. If this was 2-3 years, I would agree. That being said, Campbell managed to flourish during those darker days. Personally, I think he is doing fine as he is, if he was not making mistakes and was absolutely perfect then I don't think we would have him right now, nevermind during the next window or 2. What keepers at his age or younger are more proven? Even globally.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 1, 2021 20:34:33 GMT
I’m not convinced with him at all tbh but he’s clearly got a lot of promise. If I was his agent I’d be doing everything to get him away from this club. It’s not the right environment for him. And I say that with absolute regret. I don't see how its not the right environment. The policy right now is about pushing youth through. Half the squad is under 25 and its a better time than I can ever remember for a young player to thrive at Stoke. If this was 2-3 years, I would agree. That being said, Campbell managed to flourish during those darker days. Personally, I think he is doing fine as he is, if he was not making mistakes and was absolutely perfect then I don't think we would have him right now, nevermind during the next window or 2. What keepers at his age or younger are more proven? I don’t think MoN has faith in him tbh. I don’t think the fans do. I agree with you overall but I’m not convinced he’ll flourish here at all.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 1, 2021 20:38:33 GMT
The best keeper I’ve seen in our league this season is the lad at Preston who’s on loan from Leicester. There’s good keepers out there and we’ve had more than our fair share of decent ones over the years. One things for sure though, and that’s that these two current incumbents are costing us every week and will probably continue to do so. They need replacing in January. I mentioned Iversen best part of 2 years ago. Beswicks client as well.
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Post by gawa on Nov 1, 2021 20:49:11 GMT
Championship Stats Since 20/21
Josef Bursik Appearances - 25 Win % - 32% CS % - 36% Save % - 59.7% (43/72) GA/90 - 1.24
Adam Davies Appearances - 22 Win% - 36.4% CS% - 45.5% Save% - 67.7% (42/62) GA/90 - 0.86
Just leaving this here.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 1, 2021 20:58:10 GMT
Championship Stats Since 20/21 Josef Bursik Appearances - 25 Win % - 32% CS % - 36% Save % - 59.7% (43/72) GA/90 - 1.24 Adam Davies Appearances - 22 Win% - 36.4% CS% - 45.5% Save% - 67.7% (42/62) GA/90 - 0.86 Just leaving this here. Much like the clean sheets and win stats for Chester that people used despite him being a total and utter disaster. Edit - and I think MoN thinks Davies is shit too tbh. He’s tried to replace him at every turn.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 1, 2021 21:07:50 GMT
Bursik made some superb saves on Saturday, one mistake. He didn't cost the game.
He will be a brilliant keeper
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Post by gawa on Nov 1, 2021 21:16:37 GMT
Championship Stats Since 20/21 Josef Bursik Appearances - 25 Win % - 32% CS % - 36% Save % - 59.7% (43/72) GA/90 - 1.24 Adam Davies Appearances - 22 Win% - 36.4% CS% - 45.5% Save% - 67.7% (42/62) GA/90 - 0.86 Just leaving this here. Much like the clean sheets and win stats for Chester that people used despite him being a total and utter disaster. Edit - and I think MoN thinks Davies is shit too tbh. He’s tried to replace him at every turn. I’m just providing some statistics nothing more. Not trying to suggest either are good or bad. I appreciate though that you recognise we tend to do better with Davies in goal.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 1, 2021 21:21:08 GMT
Much like the clean sheets and win stats for Chester that people used despite him being a total and utter disaster. Edit - and I think MoN thinks Davies is shit too tbh. He’s tried to replace him at every turn. I’m just providing some statistics nothing more. Not trying to suggest either are good or bad. I appreciate though that you recognise we tend to do better with Davies in goal. Like the stat with Chester, I don’t think it’s much to do with him.
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