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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2021 20:31:44 GMT
Einstein... insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results .
Einstein...we can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them .
Einstein ...Two things are infinite,the universe and human stupidity ; and I am not sure about the universe .
Hard to tell if he is being philosophical or talking about Stoke City F.C.
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 30, 2021 20:50:05 GMT
Having just watched the goals again on Quest Tommy Smith was beaten far too easy for their 3rd goal and Tymon for the 2nd was dreadful.They are not good enough as out and out full backs so I’d be amazed if he scrapped the 3 at the back until January if at all The reason the system is failing at the moment is that the centre halves need to be out quickly to cover the space behind the wing backs or the pressing has to be good enough to not allow the opposition defenders time to play that ball behind the wing back. Thompson did a brilliant job at that for 70 minutes but was tiring so all of a sudden they had the opportunity to exploit the space with a bit of help from Tymon for the second. When your wing back plays the ball into that space behind himself there really is not much your centre half can do. One of the problems we have in this system in my opinion is that Wilmot commits very high up the pitch, often ahead of Smith. Lose the ball then and there is a huge gap so the pass doesn't even have to be particularly good. I don't know what the answer is because it seems a shame to tell Wilmot to stay back as he definitely adds something to the attack as showcased for our first goal and overloading that wing certainly works. However it comes down to game management and when we are leading going into the last ten minutes he should not be committing to attack but concentrating on defending our lead. At the very least if he does go upfield Smith should be staying back to cover. There was no need at 3-0 up for him to be leaving huge gaps at the back. If I remember rightly Sheffield scored one of their goals the other week because Wilmot had gone too far upfield.
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Post by donaldingleton on Oct 30, 2021 22:12:49 GMT
Get Ryan back as coach to sort the defence out! d.
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Post by numpty40 on Dec 30, 2021 22:12:05 GMT
He's a stubborn fucker MON, I'll grant you that. Even when the wing backs, which are essential to the system, have been wank for game after game, he'll persist with this shit fucking formation.
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Post by kev4chaz on Dec 30, 2021 22:19:23 GMT
This thread shows how long this shite has gone on for.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 31, 2021 11:51:58 GMT
If he wants to carry on with the back 3 he has to drop Batth and recall Connor Taylor.
Taylor is the closest thing we have to Souttar. And it’s key to have someone who is good on the ball and fearless with it too centrally.
We can’t carry on with Batth at the heart of it. It’s painful.
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Post by milky on Dec 31, 2021 12:20:32 GMT
We just about get away with it away from home when teams come at us and Campbell and Vrancic play well.
We just about got away with it at home minus Powell because we still had Soutar.
Without Soutar its totally flawed. Throw in the lack of Sawyers and our wing backs form taking a dive then it's fatally flawed.
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 31, 2021 12:56:27 GMT
Hallelujah www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-tom-ince-6425397Stoke moved to a 4-3-3 in the second half against Derby, with Tom Ince scoring when he came off the bench, and that could be an option at least for the home game against Preston on Monday. O’Neill said: “I think we've got to look at that. With Harry going out of the team we maybe have to reflect if three at the back is how we should play. We need a bit more in wide areas at times.
What system should Stoke play against Preston? Have your say in the comments section “Our front two (Jacob Brown and Tyrese Campbell) in the early part of the game found it difficult to affect the game as well. “Those are all things we have to consider going into Monday's game"
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Dec 31, 2021 13:01:22 GMT
Hallelujah www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-tom-ince-6425397Stoke moved to a 4-3-3 in the second half against Derby, with Tom Ince scoring when he came off the bench, and that could be an option at least for the home game against Preston on Monday. O’Neill said: “I think we've got to look at that. With Harry going out of the team we maybe have to reflect if three at the back is how we should play. We need a bit more in wide areas at times.
What system should Stoke play against Preston? Have your say in the comments section “Our front two (Jacob Brown and Tyrese Campbell) in the early part of the game found it difficult to affect the game as well. “Those are all things we have to consider going into Monday's game" Quick on the uptake this lad.
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Post by milky on Dec 31, 2021 13:02:45 GMT
Hallelujah www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-tom-ince-6425397Stoke moved to a 4-3-3 in the second half against Derby, with Tom Ince scoring when he came off the bench, and that could be an option at least for the home game against Preston on Monday. O’Neill said: “I think we've got to look at that. With Harry going out of the team we maybe have to reflect if three at the back is how we should play. We need a bit more in wide areas at times.
What system should Stoke play against Preston? Have your say in the comments section “Our front two (Jacob Brown and Tyrese Campbell) in the early part of the game found it difficult to affect the game as well. “Those are all things we have to consider going into Monday's game" I don't believe for one minute he has finally had a eureka moment. More likely he knows one more 3 at the back debacle on Monday with him expecting Danny Baath to finally discover his inner Bobby Moore and things could turn a bit unpleasant for him.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 13:03:12 GMT
Hallelujah www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-tom-ince-6425397Stoke moved to a 4-3-3 in the second half against Derby, with Tom Ince scoring when he came off the bench, and that could be an option at least for the home game against Preston on Monday. O’Neill said: “I think we've got to look at that. With Harry going out of the team we maybe have to reflect if three at the back is how we should play. We need a bit more in wide areas at times.
What system should Stoke play against Preston? Have your say in the comments section “Our front two (Jacob Brown and Tyrese Campbell) in the early part of the game found it difficult to affect the game as well. “Those are all things we have to consider going into Monday's game" Sounds like the penny might have dropped, which is a positive at least. No way we can keep hammering away at 5-3-2 with the players we have available. 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 will bring its own problems (Smith dodgy at RB, midfield still poor, can any of our strikers operate as alone forward?) but go into Monday's game setting up the same and we're in for another miserable 0-1 or 0-2 defeat.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 31, 2021 13:53:15 GMT
Have we got anybody that could play central midfield, with Allen, at any level of the club?
Is Wilmott the only option?
I'd be making wholesale changes on Monday but I've pretty much no idea who I'd play where.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 31, 2021 13:55:28 GMT
It's in danger of becoming another 'I only play a diamond formation' issue.
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 31, 2021 16:03:02 GMT
Not ideal, but think it's probably got to be:
Davies Smith Wilmot Batth Fox Allen Tymon Campbell Vrancic Doughty/Ince Fletcher
Pretty much picks itself becasue you can't pick Clucas after last night.
The only toss-up would be Ince or Doughty. I'd be tempted to give Doughty a go, but think MON will go with Ince
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Post by theonlooker on Dec 31, 2021 16:14:19 GMT
Not ideal, but think it's probably got to be: Davies Smith Wilmot Batth Fox Allen Tymon Campbell Vrancic Doughty/Ince Fletcher Pretty much picks itself becasue you can't pick Clucas after last night. The only toss-up would be Ince or Doughty. I'd be tempted to give Doughty a go, but think MON will go with Ince The worry about that team is we've gone from a system where the midfield picks itself to one where the midfield AND central striker picks itself, but I suppose needs must. Where do Surridge and Brown fit into that in your eyes, FM?
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 31, 2021 16:18:30 GMT
Bring the diamond back
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 31, 2021 16:25:10 GMT
Not ideal, but think it's probably got to be: Davies Smith Wilmot Batth Fox Allen Tymon Campbell Vrancic Doughty/Ince Fletcher Pretty much picks itself becasue you can't pick Clucas after last night. The only toss-up would be Ince or Doughty. I'd be tempted to give Doughty a go, but think MON will go with Ince The worry about that team is we've gone from a system where the midfield picks itself to one where the midfield AND central striker picks itself, but I suppose needs must. Where do Surridge and Brown fit into that in your eyes, FM? Yeah - they don't fit at all, do they? But they wouldn't really be threatening the XI in any formation at the moment anyway.
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 31, 2021 16:36:35 GMT
It's all suddenly become a bit of a mess. The last few home games, we've looked as if we don't really know what way we are trying to play and it just ends up looking aimless and disjointed.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 31, 2021 17:33:01 GMT
Not ideal, but think it's probably got to be: Davies Smith Wilmot Batth Fox Allen Tymon Campbell Vrancic Doughty/Ince Fletcher Pretty much picks itself becasue you can't pick Clucas after last night. The only toss-up would be Ince or Doughty. I'd be tempted to give Doughty a go, but think MON will go with Ince A small tweak for me. Smith, Batth,Wilmot, Fox Allen,Vrancic, Ince, Campbell, Doughty Fletcher Subs Fielding Surridge, Brown, Edwards, Chester, Tymon, Wright Phillips
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Post by a on Dec 31, 2021 17:54:49 GMT
Have we got anybody that could play central midfield, with Allen, at any level of the club? Is Wilmott the only option? I'd be making wholesale changes on Monday but I've pretty much no idea who I'd play where. Sawyers I’d say, Thompson when fit? Dunno really it’s been so long since we’ve played the more conventional midfield.
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gerbil
Academy Starlet
Posts: 173
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Post by gerbil on Dec 31, 2021 17:57:02 GMT
It is not 3 at the back. It is negative 5 at the back. Fullbacks are not wingers, the clue is in the word backs.
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Post by a on Dec 31, 2021 18:12:48 GMT
It is not 3 at the back. It is negative 5 at the back. Fullbacks are not wingers, the clue is in the word backs. Wing backs
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 31, 2021 18:17:20 GMT
Not ideal, but think it's probably got to be: Davies Smith Wilmot Batth Fox Allen Tymon Campbell Vrancic Doughty/Ince Fletcher Pretty much picks itself becasue you can't pick Clucas after last night. The only toss-up would be Ince or Doughty. I'd be tempted to give Doughty a go, but think MON will go with Ince A small tweak for me. Smith, Batth,Wilmot, Fox Allen,Vrancic, Ince, Campbell, Doughty Fletcher Subs Fielding Surridge, Brown, Edwards, Chester, Tymon, Wright Phillips I don't see Campbell as a number 10 at all and has done a lot of his good work cutting in from the right.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 31, 2021 18:36:54 GMT
A small tweak for me. Smith, Batth,Wilmot, Fox Allen,Vrancic, Ince, Campbell, Doughty Fletcher Subs Fielding Surridge, Brown, Edwards, Chester, Tymon, Wright Phillips I don't see Campbell as a number 10 at all and has done a lot of his good work cutting in from the right. He only needs to play slightly behind Fletcher he doesn't need to play as a 10 as such.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Dec 31, 2021 18:48:33 GMT
It is not 3 at the back. It is negative 5 at the back. Fullbacks are not wingers, the clue is in the word backs. It's only negative if the manager makes it negative. Not many thought Conte's 3 at the back at Chelsea was negative with Moses and Alonso as wingbacks. Coaches misrepesent formations I remember Hughes claiming to have played 3 up front when 1 of them Ramadan had spent the whole game marginally infront of the right back. Same here his 3 at the back is clearly 5.
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 26, 2022 22:34:35 GMT
It is not 3 at the back. It is negative 5 at the back. Fullbacks are not wingers, the clue is in the word backs. It's only negative if the manager makes it negative. Not many thought Conte's 3 at the back at Chelsea was negative with Moses and Alonso as wingbacks. Coaches misrepesent formations I remember Hughes claiming to have played 3 up front when 1 of them Ramadan had spent the whole game marginally infront of the right back. Same here his 3 at the back is clearly 5. I'm not really sure how many changes in personnel is needed before MON realises that three/five at the back is completely and utterly fucking useless.
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 26, 2022 22:50:07 GMT
MON has become as intransigent as Nathan was with his diamond formation.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 27, 2022 10:32:12 GMT
MON has become as intransigent as Nathan was with his diamond formation. It was only 3 or 4 matches ago he went to a back 4 and we lost. He regularly goes to a back 4 when we are chasing a game. The problem is that our fullbacks are not defensively good enough. Where do you play Tymon, possibly our player of the year if we play a back 4?
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 27, 2022 14:13:52 GMT
MON has become as intransigent as Nathan was with his diamond formation. It was only 3 or 4 matches ago he went to a back 4 and we lost. He regularly goes to a back 4 when we are chasing a game. The problem is that our fullbacks are not defensively good enough. Where do you play Tymon, possibly our player of the year if we play a back 4? I would dispute that Tymon is our player of the year, he tends to play well 1 in 3 games (better than most agreed). I would play him at left back.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 27, 2022 14:41:06 GMT
It was only 3 or 4 matches ago he went to a back 4 and we lost. He regularly goes to a back 4 when we are chasing a game. The problem is that our fullbacks are not defensively good enough. Where do you play Tymon, possibly our player of the year if we play a back 4? I would dispute that Tymon is our player of the year, he tends to play well 1 in 3 games (better than most agreed). I would play him at left back. Defence is his weakness and if you play him at left back and play a winger in front of him you curb his runs and crosses.
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