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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 25, 2021 9:02:37 GMT
From what I've seen over a number of years being disciplined is something of a challenge for our midfield. Our failure to replace Whelan properly has been a problem for years, agreed. Of the players we currently have, the most balanced we've looked in there is with Allen and Thompson sharing the role and then having Vrancic a bit further up. One thing's for sure, playing Sawyers deeper isn't going to help. Agree about Whelan but I also think you can say Mikel wasn't replaced. I suspect he left us a bit on the hop without us having thought about looking for a defensive midfielder thinking he would be staying. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Oct 25, 2021 9:30:00 GMT
It was working fine until he started fucking around with the midfield 3. We should always have 2 strikers, Allen or Thompson at the base and then whoever out of Sawyers, Vranic and Powell in front of them.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 25, 2021 11:50:29 GMT
Our failure to replace Whelan properly has been a problem for years, agreed. Of the players we currently have, the most balanced we've looked in there is with Allen and Thompson sharing the role and then having Vrancic a bit further up. One thing's for sure, playing Sawyers deeper isn't going to help. Agree about Whelan but I also think you can say Mikel wasn't replaced. I suspect he left us a bit on the hop without us having thought about looking for a defensive midfielder thinking he would be staying. Mikel was part of the problem for me as he absolutely wasn't playing as a defensive midfielder in terms of the off the ball stuff. Sawyers, as Bayern said, is giving us the same issue. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Oct 25, 2021 12:37:40 GMT
Smith is an awful Right Back, just about passable as a Wing back.
Tymon is a poor Left Back, works well as a Wing back.
I have massive doubts over every single Centre back we have besides Souttar, so having only 1 extra in there is suspect.
Our midfield would be even more overrun with only 2 in the middle instead of 3, and we don't have any actual wide players in the squad.
Only place we have the players to play anywhere near a 442 is strikers, who have all been lower quality than hoped for (Sima and Campbell aside through injury).
4-4-2 is a complete no go with the squad we have, 4-2-3-1 is closer but we just can't use a back 4 as we have no decent defenders, besides Souttar.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 12:52:04 GMT
It was working fine until he started fucking around with the midfield 3. We should always have 2 strikers, Allen or Thompson at the base and then whoever out of Sawyers, Vranic and Powell in front of them. Allen or Thompson at the base, is the very reason that our midfield will never work, regardless of who you put in front of them. One is an International-pedigree player past his best, who's demonstrated his supposed ability probably around 5 times, in a Stoke shirt. The other was a middling League One midfielder when we signed him, and I've seen nothing to tell me any different. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Oct 25, 2021 13:11:46 GMT
It was working fine until he started fucking around with the midfield 3. We should always have 2 strikers, Allen or Thompson at the base and then whoever out of Sawyers, Vranic and Powell in front of them. Allen or Thompson at the base, is the very reason that our midfield will never work, regardless of who you put in front of them. One is an International-pedigree player past his best, who's demonstrated his supposed ability probably around 5 times, in a Stoke shirt. The other was a middling League One midfielder when we signed him, and I've seen nothing to tell me any different. Thompson has been good when he’s played this season. No one can deny it. Allen was doing fine in the midfield anchor role as well, and I am one of his detractors. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 25, 2021 17:38:55 GMT
Allen or Thompson at the base, is the very reason that our midfield will never work, regardless of who you put in front of them. One is an International-pedigree player past his best, who's demonstrated his supposed ability probably around 5 times, in a Stoke shirt. The other was a middling League One midfielder when we signed him, and I've seen nothing to tell me any different. Thompson has been good when he’s played this season. No one can deny it. Allen was doing fine in the midfield anchor role as well, and I am one of his detractors. Whoever said before that Thommo+Allen combine for a reasonable DM had it right IMO. He can be wasteful but he's willing to take it in tight places and find a forward pass. With him right now we get half a DM and half a ball player, and with Allen we get the other half a DM. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 25, 2021 17:53:05 GMT
Allen or Thompson at the base, is the very reason that our midfield will never work, regardless of who you put in front of them. One is an International-pedigree player past his best, who's demonstrated his supposed ability probably around 5 times, in a Stoke shirt. The other was a middling League One midfielder when we signed him, and I've seen nothing to tell me any different. Thompson has been good when he’s played this season. No one can deny it. Allen was doing fine in the midfield anchor role as well, and I am one of his detractors. Allens had two good games this season, other than that he's been pretty hopeless, I'm still not sure what set up he'd actually fit in, ideally we need two new mids in Jan but it won't happen unless we lose at least one. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 25, 2021 17:57:42 GMT
Thompson has been good when he’s played this season. No one can deny it. Allen was doing fine in the midfield anchor role as well, and I am one of his detractors. Allens had two good games this season, other than that he's been pretty hopeless, I'm still not sure what set up he'd actually fit in, ideally we need two new mids in Jan but it won't happen unless we lose at least one. I think we need one midfielder and lose one. Basically a defensive minded one in for an attack minded one |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 18:00:51 GMT
Thompson has been good when he’s played this season. No one can deny it. Allen was doing fine in the midfield anchor role as well, and I am one of his detractors. Whoever said before that Thommo+Allen combine for a reasonable DM had it right IMO. He can be wasteful but he's willing to take it in tight places and find a forward pass. With him right now we get half a DM and half a ball player, and with Allen we get the other half a DM. I’d play this and have them sit deep with Vrancic/Sawyers ahead of them until Powell returns. When Campbell is fit, put him back out on the wide right and let Tymon/Doughty fight it out for the wide left of a central, solo striker |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 19:33:24 GMT
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 30, 2021 16:47:08 GMT
Anyone still thinking the system is not an issue?
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Post by sportsman on Oct 30, 2021 16:49:55 GMT
I don't know, but can you imagine us with 2 centre backs and not 3. Is there a system where you can play 4 centre backs or even 5!
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Post by christhepotter on Oct 30, 2021 16:51:26 GMT
Can we just ditch MoN
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Post by houstonsteve on Oct 30, 2021 16:51:51 GMT
pop this in the post to coaching staff at Stoke City FC. very interesting point about changing the system if a team is over running the back 5.......... (DURING A MATCH) |
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Post by stroller on Oct 30, 2021 16:54:29 GMT
I don't know, but can you imagine us with 2 centre backs and not 3. Is there a system where you can play 4 centre backs or even 5! Yes, the Tony Pulis way! |
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Post by misterj on Oct 30, 2021 18:51:51 GMT
When g/k rolls out the ball to back three, often the two outer players are so WIDE (almost hogging the touch line) that the gaps they leave are like huge voids …. absolutely asking for trouble, we don’t have the same personnel as Chelsea, L’pool, Citeh, Barca etc etc and those gaps would be much smaller if we had four at the back. I know it sounds terribly traditional and Pulis-esque but to stop the rot it’s what we need now, at least until new year so we can reassess the situation. People are saying “but who would play left back?” er….. Tyson or Doughty or Fox or ….. come on we’ve got a large enough squad to sort that FFS. I was just reading that Antonio of West Ham didn’t start out as a striker yet his stats are now ahead of Harry Kane, Ronaldo and Salah. So maybe someone who isn’t currently a left back (eg Thompson) might step up to the plate - give it a go cuz the current system is BROKEN!!
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Post by yyy on Oct 30, 2021 19:00:53 GMT
I'd like to see us go 4231 at times as I've said before to keep the oppo guessing. I don't believe we have built the central midfield for it though, or left back as tymon is a wingback, unless we used clucas.
You could have Sawyers rotating with Varancic in the #10 role.
You'd have Doughty with his pace on the left,sima & Campbell with their pace on the right.
It's that cm, it's just not adequate for a 2 man central midfield. we're a couple of players off being capable of highly effective in that formation Imo
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 30, 2021 19:06:13 GMT
Has to now, surely?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 30, 2021 19:13:39 GMT
Ditch it for what though? With the players we’ve got; what else works?
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Oct 30, 2021 19:47:48 GMT
What's our record since Chester has been back in the team?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 30, 2021 19:49:29 GMT
What's our record since Chester has been back in the team? Very poor. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 30, 2021 19:54:08 GMT
Ideally I want 4231.
But we can’t do it atm.
We don’t have a fit left back.
And we we haven’t got a right back.
If we did then I’d have Ostigard at right back I think.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2021 19:54:49 GMT
Fuck all wrong with the system.
We have got key players who for whatever reason aren't performing anything like what they were early doors.
Wilmot, Tymon, Souttar, Bursik, Allen, Ostigard have all gone downhill massively at different stages over the last month or so.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 30, 2021 20:02:56 GMT
Back three with the ball back five without and work fucking arrd, we used to have a manager who could defend a lead, MON did for NI but for first time he is under pressure now for me that was pathetic today, he took his best three players off and the bench was a mess three strikers and ince, why?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2021 20:04:53 GMT
Back three with the ball back five without and work fucking arrd, we used to have a manager who could defend a lead, MON did for NI but for first time he is under pressure now for me that was pathetic today, he took his best three players off and the bench was a mess three strikers and ince, why? Who should have been on the bench who wasn't? |
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 30, 2021 20:11:36 GMT
I liked the 3 at the back when we were playing well but we've gone off the boil and need to start winning ugly. In some ways I think 3 at the back is too confusing for our back 3/5 as they seem to leave it too much for each other.
With Tyrese getting back to his best we need to utilise him and go back to a 4231 with Fletcher at the top and Tyrese Vrancic and Brown behind him.
I'd also be tempted to play Wilmot in the DM role with Thompson.
Back to basics though heaven knows what our best back 4 is I'd go with Smith Souter Ostigaard Tymon
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 30, 2021 20:15:00 GMT
Having just watched the goals again on Quest Tommy Smith was beaten far too easy for their 3rd goal and Tymon for the 2nd was dreadful.They are not good enough as out and out full backs so I’d be amazed if he scrapped the 3 at the back until January if at all
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Post by stokeson on Oct 30, 2021 20:27:33 GMT
Three at the back was working well Ostigard Souttar Willmot 10 games 18 points
then we took out Ostigard and put in Chester
west brom won 1-0
sheff utd lost 2-1
bournemth lost 0-1
millwall lost 2-1
cardiff draw 3-3 5 games 4 points.
Weak link or coincidence ?
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 30, 2021 20:28:33 GMT
I'd like to see us go 4231 at times as I've said before to keep the oppo guessing. I don't believe we have built the central midfield for it though, or left back as tymon is a wingback, unless we used clucas. You could have Sawyers rotating with Varancic in the #10 role. You'd have Doughty with his pace on the left,sima & Campbell with their pace on the right. It's that cm, it's just not adequate for a 2 man central midfield. we're a couple of players off being capable of highly effective in that formation Imo From what we've seen of Doughty, Sima and Campbell (who looks nowhere near last year's level yet) is doomed to failure. We've got to make three at the back work. Neither Smith nor Tymon are good enough defensively to play full back. |
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