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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2021 12:18:54 GMT
The English thing was to cram anyone left footed in at left back. Whatever qualities they had. Didn't Hudson also break a curfew on England duty? Not the smartest thing to do when new to the squad. brought it on himself a bit Yeah there was that story. Although in them days it would've been a regular occurence.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 2, 2021 12:28:30 GMT
I don’t know joe. At club level you can have the luxury of a flair player seemingly do nothing for 80 minutes for that moment of magic. Or accept he will have games manmarked out. But over a season you will get results. I don’t think you have the luxury of time at international level No you don't. Never did. Remember the mavericks all got caps but rarely made much impression. Hudson made the most impression but only got two. But twice he turned down the chance to play for England. Which mavericks are you referring to? Some other players never really got a chance despite their ability. For me Peter Osgood was the best English centre forward of the time, he got 2 full caps. Managers were intimidated by him because his game was built on arrogance, a fantastic player, but England chose players safer options Players who went on to get 40, 50, 60, 70 caps did they all play brilliantly in their first 2 games? Huddy reckoned he was not bothered about playing for England, but that doesn't tell the full story imo. he just realised at an early age that he would never be used by the national team so lost interest. If you take a player like Frank Worthington, another so called maverick he was highly valued by Joe Mercer who described as the best English centre forward and scored twice and played in all Mercer's games, but never used by any other English manager. These players just needed a manager who valued them, could handle them and knew how to use them. 2 caps for Hudson was just a disgrace imho. Managers should have got him interested. Joe Mercer was my favourite England manager, he seemed to be able to embrace players with ability.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2021 12:55:44 GMT
No you don't. Never did. Remember the mavericks all got caps but rarely made much impression. Hudson made the most impression but only got two. But twice he turned down the chance to play for England. Which mavericks are you referring to? Some other players never really got a chance despite their ability. For me Peter Osgood was the best English centre forward of the time, he got 2 full caps. Managers were intimidated by him because his game was built on arrogance, a fantastic player, but England chose players safer options Players who went on to get 40, 50, 60, 70 caps did they all play brilliantly in their first 2 games? Huddy reckoned he was not bothered about playing for England, but that doesn't tell the full story imo. he just realised at an early age that he would never be used by the national team so lost interest. If you take a player like Frank Worthington, another so called maverick he was highly valued by Joe Mercer who described as the best English centre forward and scored twice and played in all Mercer's games, but never used by any other English manager. These players just needed a manager who valued them, could handle them and knew how to use them. 2 caps for Hudson was just a disgrace imho. Managers should have got him interested. Joe Mercer was my favourite England manager, he seemed to be able to embrace players with ability. Agree, Osgood was surely worth more than 4 caps. Frank Worthington got 8. Rodney Marsh got 9. Stan Bowles got 5. Revie took the rare step of bowing to public pressure and playing Bowles in Rome and he was ineffectual. England's best player by a long way was Keegan. For a while Keegan was amongst the best players in the world, unfortunately it was between world cups. Talented as those players were the whole thing misses a wider point. That being, the game was growing and developing regarding tactics skill and mentality. We got left behind. Rigidly adhering to the notion football is 'a simple game'. The thing is though, sometimes it isn't simple. sometimes it's complicated. English teams did well in the European Cup because of superior fitness. Domination ended abruptly with the ban. Although I wonder now if the domination would have dra1wn to a close anyway.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 2, 2021 21:11:44 GMT
Watched the game (obviously). Watched the highlights last night. Watched the goals on Social Media various times throughout the day (on breaks at work). Watched the goals on Social Media again when I got home from work. Just watched the highlights again too. Will it ever get old?? If we don’t beat Ukraine it will feel like ancient history.
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Post by lordb on Jul 2, 2021 21:20:10 GMT
Which mavericks are you referring to? Some other players never really got a chance despite their ability. For me Peter Osgood was the best English centre forward of the time, he got 2 full caps. Managers were intimidated by him because his game was built on arrogance, a fantastic player, but England chose players safer options Players who went on to get 40, 50, 60, 70 caps did they all play brilliantly in their first 2 games? Huddy reckoned he was not bothered about playing for England, but that doesn't tell the full story imo. he just realised at an early age that he would never be used by the national team so lost interest. If you take a player like Frank Worthington, another so called maverick he was highly valued by Joe Mercer who described as the best English centre forward and scored twice and played in all Mercer's games, but never used by any other English manager. These players just needed a manager who valued them, could handle them and knew how to use them. 2 caps for Hudson was just a disgrace imho. Managers should have got him interested. Joe Mercer was my favourite England manager, he seemed to be able to embrace players with ability. Agree, Osgood was surely worth more than 4 caps. Frank Worthington got 8. Rodney Marsh got 9. Stan Bowles got 5. Revie took the rare step of bowing to public pressure and playing Bowles in Rome and he was ineffectual. England's best player by a long way was Keegan. For a while Keegan was amongst the best players in the world, unfortunately it was between world cups. Talented as those players were the whole thing misses a wider point. That being, the game was growing and developing regarding tactics skill and mentality. We got left behind. Rigidly adhering to the notion football is 'a simple game'. The thing is though, sometimes it isn't simple. sometimes it's complicated. English teams did well in the European Cup because of superior fitness. Domination ended abruptly with the ban. Although I wonder now if the domination would have dra1wn to a close anyway. I think it was a bit more than superior fitness that saw English clubs dominant in Europe. Paisley,Clough,Robson and er...Tony Barton...🤓...all managed properly. Revie was a paranoid disgrace, Greenwood just wasn't up to the job.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2021 22:53:15 GMT
Agree, Osgood was surely worth more than 4 caps. Frank Worthington got 8. Rodney Marsh got 9. Stan Bowles got 5. Revie took the rare step of bowing to public pressure and playing Bowles in Rome and he was ineffectual. England's best player by a long way was Keegan. For a while Keegan was amongst the best players in the world, unfortunately it was between world cups. Talented as those players were the whole thing misses a wider point. That being, the game was growing and developing regarding tactics skill and mentality. We got left behind. Rigidly adhering to the notion football is 'a simple game'. The thing is though, sometimes it isn't simple. sometimes it's complicated. English teams did well in the European Cup because of superior fitness. Domination ended abruptly with the ban. Although I wonder now if the domination would have dra1wn to a close anyway. I think it was a bit more than superior fitness that saw English clubs dominant in Europe. Paisley,Clough,Robson and er...Tony Barton...🤓...all managed properly. Revie was a paranoid disgrace, Greenwood just wasn't up to the job. The methods that led to Revie's success at Leeds couldn't really be implemented at international level. It's a different kind of job altogether. Different demands and often irrational expectations. Harsh on Ron Greenwood. He didn't do too badly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 14:16:59 GMT
I think it was a bit more than superior fitness that saw English clubs dominant in Europe. Paisley,Clough,Robson and er...Tony Barton...🤓...all managed properly. Revie was a paranoid disgrace, Greenwood just wasn't up to the job. The methods that led to Revie's success at Leeds couldn't really be implemented at international level. It's a different kind of job altogether. Different demands and often irrational expectations. Harsh on Ron Greenwood. He didn't do too badly. Greenwood did really well in 82 but 0-0 draws v The Spain and The West Germany weren't enough. Only conceded 1 goal v a brilliant French side.
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