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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 8:29:01 GMT
Marxism : A method of socioeconomic analysis that is uses a materialist interpretation of historical development Two of the original three founder members of BLM We’re self confessed Marxists Or an ideology written by a rank hypocrite living off the spoils of his extremely wealthy mate that provided the template for communism which was pretty effective in killing tens of millions world wide. Not that good really. This is fucking gold. Peak Oatcake.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 9, 2021 8:32:57 GMT
As with everything in life and politics, it isn't as black and white as "If you take the knee you're Marxist" or "If you boo you're racist". There is a spectrum of various reasons for each expression. Are all those who boo taking the knee racist? No. Are some of them? Yes. Just from the comments on this board it is clear that there are varying viewpoints: - Some are clearly racist - Some believe it has run its course - Some believe it to be symbolic with a Marxist ideology - Some don't agree with the mixing of football and politics - Some feel there is an agenda and people are being pressured into it - Some feel it is a pointless gesture - Some are sick of the wider discussion on removing statues etc and feel disillusioned with it all. nail on the head. Which results in the same discussion revolving around a slightly different incident or issue. I think most people want the same thing in respect to equality it’s just the bits around it and how’s its done that cause the disagreements.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 8:55:05 GMT
I take issue with the whole of it. It is a total PR exercise, nothing else, written not by Southgate but someone else; coordinated by the FA, who are worried about the booing of the knee. I find the whole of it quite sickening, we're playing a football tournament, not goingn to war. But, despite all the changes in modern football, what cannot be questioned about the current generation of England players is their pride in representing this country.
This idea that some players don’t know what it means to play for England — or don’t care — has become something of a false narrative.
You don’t need to dig deep to realise that. Yeah, like Foden and Mason trying to smuggle two whores into their hotel in Iceland last September?
Yep, quickly brushed under the carpet wasn’t it Hardly a modern problem though to be fair. The Hong Kong incident, players in the 70s went on drinking binges after sneaking out of the hotel on England duty , was Alan Hudson one? All well and good giving such a speech but only one place it matters. Graham Taylor told England fans to sit back, relax, watch them do it etc and they were on the plane home not long after. I agree that Southgate has the passion etc, be odd if he didn't but for me he hasn't the nous when it matters. Failed miserably in a relegation battle with good players and seemed lost for ideas v Croatia in the semi when a little bit of tactical awareness could have won the game.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 9, 2021 9:01:37 GMT
Yep, quickly brushed under the carpet wasn’t it Hardly a modern problem though to be fair. The Hong Kong incident, players in the 70s went on drinking binges after sneaking out of the hotel on England duty , was Alan Hudson one? All well and good giving such a speech but only one place it matters. Graham Taylor told England fans to sit back, relax, watch them do it etc and they were on the plane home not long after. I agree that Southgate has the passion etc, be odd if he didn't but for me he hasn't the nous when it matters. Failed miserably in a relegation battle with good players and seemed lost for ideas v Croatia in the semi when a little bit of tactical awareness could have won the game. Yep. People bemoan the lack of mavericks and characters in the game then come down on them like a tonne of bricks if they're not choirboys 100% of the time. I agree Southgate is a bit of a worry as a manager. As an ambassador though he's top notch and this is exactly how I'd want the England manager coming across.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 9:11:10 GMT
Hardly a modern problem though to be fair. The Hong Kong incident, players in the 70s went on drinking binges after sneaking out of the hotel on England duty , was Alan Hudson one? All well and good giving such a speech but only one place it matters. Graham Taylor told England fans to sit back, relax, watch them do it etc and they were on the plane home not long after. I agree that Southgate has the passion etc, be odd if he didn't but for me he hasn't the nous when it matters. Failed miserably in a relegation battle with good players and seemed lost for ideas v Croatia in the semi when a little bit of tactical awareness could have won the game. Yep. People bemoan the lack of mavericks and characters in the game then come down on them like a tonne of bricks if they're not choirboys 100% of the time. I agree Southgate is a bit of a worry as a manager. As an ambassador though he's top notch and this is exactly how I'd want the England manager coming across.I think that's the problem. Often England mangers are and I think the FA look at that over ability too much. I have no problem with players letting off steam but you see the likes of The Sun desperately trying to dig up pre tournament dirt then all this patriotic nonsense on the eve of games
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Post by skip on Jun 9, 2021 9:25:27 GMT
That's precisely what is written on his tombstone in Highgate Cemetery! p.s. Capitalism has killed way more. I've been to his tombstone and didn't see what I have just written. And on what basis has capitalism killed more? Interested to hear how you've worked that one out. Why did you visit the tomb of Karl Marx? To baulk at his ideas? "Capitalist realism is a kind of anti-mythical myth: in claiming to have deflated all previous myths on which societies were based, whether the divine right of kings or the Marxist concept of historical materialism, it presents its own myth of the free individual exercising choice." Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? Fisher, M. Zero Books, 2009.
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Post by christhepotter on Jun 9, 2021 9:29:53 GMT
The only time we should be taking the near is to get a steadier aim 😁
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 9, 2021 9:31:31 GMT
As with everything in life and politics, it isn't as black and white as "If you take the knee you're Marxist" or "If you boo you're racist". There is a spectrum of various reasons for each expression. Are all those who boo taking the knee racist? No. Are some of them? Yes. Just from the comments on this board it is clear that there are varying viewpoints: - Some are clearly racist - Some believe it has run its course - Some believe it to be symbolic with a Marxist ideology - Some don't agree with the mixing of football and politics - Some feel there is an agenda and people are being pressured into it - Some feel it is a pointless gesture - Some are sick of the wider discussion on removing statues etc and feel disillusioned with it all. Excellent summary and nicely considered assessment. and similarly, everyone who supports the players taking the knee shouldn't be dismissed as a Woke Marxist/Trotskyite/Commie, or whatever the latest trendy phrase to put people down is!
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 9, 2021 9:33:11 GMT
I've been to his tombstone and didn't see what I have just written. And on what basis has capitalism killed more? Interested to hear how you've worked that one out. Why did you visit the tomb of Karl Marx? To baulk at his ideas? "Capitalist realism is a kind of anti-mythical myth: in claiming to have deflated all previous myths on which societies were based, whether the divine right of kings or the Marxist concept of historical materialism, it presents its own myth of the free individual exercising choice." Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? Fisher, M. Zero Books, 2009. It was my local park when I lived off the Holloway Rd in London.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 9, 2021 9:43:59 GMT
No, taking the knee was African American sportsmen expressing their disgust at the way they have been treated. America, where there was a need for a civil rights movement in the 60s because of how backwards that country was. Racial discrimination is and has been illegal in this country for a long long time, we have been a civil society for a very long period of time. You know full well there are much less divisive ways of the UK dealing with this but seem to have jumped on the doomed to fail bandwagon of doubling down to "teach these racists a lesson". It'll end in disaster but it really doesn't have to if we come up with something else rather than this knee bending group think. So racial discrimination doesn't occur in this country because it's been "illegal" for a "long long time". What are the much less divisive ways of dealing with racism you suggest are well known? What is wrong with teaching racists a lesson? They need teaching. You aren't born a racist. I know this full well. I was brought up in Stoke, and it surrounded me from my parents and the community. The moment I left, eyes opened. People are the fucking same. What is your suggestion of "something else" rather than the knee bending group as you like to call them. When did I say racial discrimination doesn't occur? It does and it's wrong but please brace yourself as it will never disappear entirely, that is fantasy land stuff. Britain is NOT the USA, there was no requirement for a civil rights movement here as we have never segregated people in a legal capacity. Nothing wrong with holding racists to account when you can clearly identify who they are. And a good way of doing that would be to come up with a better idea than making people bend the knee with this American import that is inextricably linked to BLM. Then if people BOO you know for a fact they are indeed racist. To keep insisting that the knee bending is how they are going to do it is to willingly continue the divisive rhetoric. Doesn't seem very unifying to take that stance. Almost of if some people just like getting "up peoples noses". Quite aggressive really.
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Post by hardcastle on Jun 9, 2021 9:49:55 GMT
Where has all this bollox come from? The influence of Marxists in this country is pretty much zero.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 9, 2021 10:09:02 GMT
linkHope the above link works - quite an entertaining read from today's paper. Warning - may upset both racists and Marxists! That is superb.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2021 10:18:25 GMT
I don’t get what’s so hard about supporting an anti racism gesture. It’s very odd. Kick it out was an anti racism gesture and was pretty much universally supported . According to themselves , "Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people." That's not the same thing as an anti racism gesture . Unsurprisingly every opinion poll in America , shows that support for BLM is stronger amongst black people , than Hispanics and white people in America Well I never ! How could this be ! Why do the Hispanics and whites associate Less with a movement for black people than black people ? A message that speaks for everyone such as kick it out , at the end of the day , will have a more universal appeal than one that doesn't such as BLM They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 9, 2021 10:33:39 GMT
Kick it out was an anti racism gesture and was pretty much universally supported . According to themselves , "Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people." That's not the same thing as an anti racism gesture . Unsurprisingly every opinion poll in America , shows that support for BLM is stronger amongst black people , than Hispanics and white people in America Well I never ! How could this be ! Why do the Hispanics and whites associate Less with a movement for black people than black people ? A message that speaks for everyone such as kick it out , at the end of the day , will have a more universal appeal than one that doesn't such as BLM They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot. That simply ignores how all this started. We can all clearly see it has become divisive. There could be dozens of alternative ways to demonstrate a collective stand against racism without it being divisive. To stick with the American BLM import that is clearly divisive in no way represents any form of unity and to ignore the furore of how it started is to ignore uncomfortable yet undeniable fact. There is a clear choice, come up with something else or stick with something that is most definitely divisive. Those who truly want unity know what the right choice is. To not want that is naïve at best and at worst shows that some would rather this ends up becoming a bigger and more dangerous issue.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2021 10:44:10 GMT
They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot. That simply ignores how all this started. We can all clearly see it has become divisive. There could be dozens of alternative ways to demonstrate a collective stand against racism without it being divisive. To stick with the American BLM import that is clearly divisive in no way represents any form of unity and to ignore the furore of how it started is to ignore uncomfortable yet undeniable fact. There is a clear choice, come up with something else or stick with something that is most definitely divisive. Those who truly want unity know what the right choice is. To not want that is naïve at best and at worst shows that some would rather this ends up becoming a bigger and more dangerous issue. So what if it's divisive and exposing racists? Who knew there was so many?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 10:45:31 GMT
Kick it out was an anti racism gesture and was pretty much universally supported . According to themselves , "Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people." That's not the same thing as an anti racism gesture . Unsurprisingly every opinion poll in America , shows that support for BLM is stronger amongst black people , than Hispanics and white people in America Well I never ! How could this be ! Why do the Hispanics and whites associate Less with a movement for black people than black people ? A message that speaks for everyone such as kick it out , at the end of the day , will have a more universal appeal than one that doesn't such as BLM They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot. I'm sure for them it is just anti-racism, i dont think for one minute Harry Kane thinks American police departments should be defunded or Jordan Pickford wants to go around ripping down any statue that has a link to the slave trade but there is no getting away from the links to a divisive movement. Not agreeing with an anti racism gesture and not agreeing with taking a knee is not the same thing.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 9, 2021 10:49:04 GMT
They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot. I'm sure for them it is just anti-racism, i dont think for one minute Harry Kane thinks American police departments should be defunded or Jordan Pickford wants to go around ripping down any statue that has a link to the slave trade but there is no getting away from the links to a divisive movement. Not agreeing with an anti racism gesture and not agreeing with taking a knee is not the same thing. Equally not agreeing with taking the knee and going out of your way to actually boo it, knowing what the players' own statements have said it's about and how they must feel hearing their words rejected and dismissed like that so vociferously, are two different things. Not everyone who disagrees with taking a knee is moved to boo it like it's Marc Bircham in 2004. That requires a particularly, ahem, 'motivated' individual.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 9, 2021 10:51:33 GMT
That simply ignores how all this started. We can all clearly see it has become divisive. There could be dozens of alternative ways to demonstrate a collective stand against racism without it being divisive. To stick with the American BLM import that is clearly divisive in no way represents any form of unity and to ignore the furore of how it started is to ignore uncomfortable yet undeniable fact. There is a clear choice, come up with something else or stick with something that is most definitely divisive. Those who truly want unity know what the right choice is. To not want that is naïve at best and at worst shows that some would rather this ends up becoming a bigger and more dangerous issue. So what if it's divisive and exposing racists? Who knew there was so many? If you think anyone who has an issue with bending the knee whilst being aware of the context of how this all began is a racist then you are naïve in the extreme. There are other ways of doing this that really would expose who the racists are. All anti racists would win then. But yeah carry on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2021 11:08:42 GMT
They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot. I'm sure for them it is just anti-racism, i dont think for one minute Harry Kane thinks American police departments should be defunded or Jordan Pickford wants to go around ripping down any statue that has a link to the slave trade but there is no getting away from the links to a divisive movement. Not agreeing with an anti racism gesture and not agreeing with taking a knee is not the same thing. Yes there is, it's really easy in fact.
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Post by skip on Jun 9, 2021 11:13:39 GMT
So what if it's divisive and exposing racists? Who knew there was so many? If you think anyone who has an issue with bending the knee whilst being aware of the context of how this all began is a racist then you are naïve in the extreme. There are other ways of doing this that really would expose who the racists are. All anti racists would win then. But yeah carry on. Proactive initiatives then please. <inserts photographic evidence of Martin Luther King taking the knee months before he was killed by a racist> p.s. I like the Holloway Road.
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Post by scfconnor on Jun 9, 2021 11:14:47 GMT
"Football is politics." OK. Let's have all the teams taking a knee for all the Palestinian children murdered by Israel. Then they can take a knee for all the Uighurs being killed by China. Then they can... Well said! For heavens sake, football is football! I don't give a flying toot if James McClean has x political view, if Tyrese Campbell supports y movement or if Charlie Adam is a secret WWE fan! I don't expect to have religion, politics, race, nationality or Covid stuffed down my throat when I want to be entertained. Absolutely, any form of bigotry and abuse is unacceptable, and anyone engaging in such behaviour needs to have stiff consequences that are swiftly and consistently applied regardless of the ethnicity, nationality, political leaning, religion, age. sex or whatever grouping is performing the abuse. But give me a break! In what world is it ok for people who have spent huge amounts to watch a game, movie, show, educational offering or whatever to be subjected to a display of the performers currently held beliefs? In most cases they happen to be blessed with a particular talent/skill but not with exceptional intelligence (and even if they were, they still aren't in the business of unsolicited evangelizing of their own beliefs), and or wide ranging experience. So you want us to stop singing the national anthem at England games and stop the minutes silence at the fixture closest to rememberance day? I don't and I think football would be worse if all politics was removed.
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Post by skip on Jun 9, 2021 11:21:36 GMT
Well said! For heavens sake, football is football! I don't give a flying toot if James McClean has x political view, if Tyrese Campbell supports y movement or if Charlie Adam is a secret WWE fan! I don't expect to have religion, politics, race, nationality or Covid stuffed down my throat when I want to be entertained. Absolutely, any form of bigotry and abuse is unacceptable, and anyone engaging in such behaviour needs to have stiff consequences that are swiftly and consistently applied regardless of the ethnicity, nationality, political leaning, religion, age. sex or whatever grouping is performing the abuse. But give me a break! In what world is it ok for people who have spent huge amounts to watch a game, movie, show, educational offering or whatever to be subjected to a display of the performers currently held beliefs? In most cases they happen to be blessed with a particular talent/skill but not with exceptional intelligence (and even if they were, they still aren't in the business of unsolicited evangelizing of their own beliefs), and or wide ranging experience. So you want us to stop singing the national anthem at England games and stop the minutes silence at the fixture closest to rememberance day? I don't and I think football would be worse if all politics was removed. I get national anthems for national games but why God Save The Queen is rolled out at FA Cup Finals is a bone of contention for me. Controversial! Yes to a minutes silence at the game closest to Remembrance Sunday before anyone thinks I'm some kind of member of a secretive anti-English Marxist Fifth Column.
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Post by scfconnor on Jun 9, 2021 11:25:36 GMT
So you want us to stop singing the national anthem at England games and stop the minutes silence at the fixture closest to rememberance day? I don't and I think football would be worse if all politics was removed. I get national anthems for national games but why God Save The Queen is rolled out at FA Cup Finals is a bone of contention for me. Controversial! Yes to a minutes silence at the game closest to Remembrance Sunday before anyone thinks I'm some kind of member of a secretive anti-English Marxist Fifth Column. Exactly my point. A lot of the "keep politics out of football" brigade love politics in football when it lines up with their views. Politics has always been in football and it will always remain.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 11:31:00 GMT
As with everything in life and politics, it isn't as black and white as "If you take the knee you're Marxist" or "If you boo you're racist". There is a spectrum of various reasons for each expression. Are all those who boo taking the knee racist? No. Are some of them? Yes. Just from the comments on this board it is clear that there are varying viewpoints: - Some are clearly racist - Some believe it has run its course - Some believe it to be symbolic with a Marxist ideology - Some don't agree with the mixing of football and politics - Some feel there is an agenda and people are being pressured into it - Some feel it is a pointless gesture - Some are sick of the wider discussion on removing statues etc and feel disillusioned with it all. - Some haven't got 10 seconds to spare.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 9, 2021 11:41:31 GMT
They've said taking a knee is anti racism. It doesn't matter BLM is or isn't. The England players are doing it as an anti racism gesture, to not agree with that implies a lot. That simply ignores how all this started. We can all clearly see it has become divisive. There could be dozens of alternative ways to demonstrate a collective stand against racism without it being divisive. To stick with the American BLM import that is clearly divisive in no way represents any form of unity and to ignore the furore of how it started is to ignore uncomfortable yet undeniable fact. There is a clear choice, come up with something else or stick with something that is most definitely divisive. Those who truly want unity know what the right choice is. To not want that is naïve at best and at worst shows that some would rather this ends up becoming a bigger and more dangerous issue. might I suggest that you stop trying to make it so unnecessarily divisive, or trying to make it into a bigger and more dangerous issue then?...just a thought! the fact is this gesture was there long before BLM, or any other organisation, imported it....though that might just be an uncomfortable yet undeniable fact!
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 9, 2021 11:46:50 GMT
Where has all this bollox come from? The influence of Marxists in this country is pretty much zero. apparently all 3 of them rule the world
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 9, 2021 12:02:57 GMT
If you think anyone who has an issue with bending the knee whilst being aware of the context of how this all began is a racist then you are naïve in the extreme. There are other ways of doing this that really would expose who the racists are. All anti racists would win then. But yeah carry on. Proactive initiatives then please. <inserts photographic evidence of Martin Luther King taking the knee months before he was killed by a racist> p.s. I like the Holloway Road. I'm no expert but surely there are a myriad of other ways of demonstrating against racism in a far less controversial way. Organise a different local school to bring a KIO flag onto the pitch with the players every home game with a small pause for silence and then a clap from the crowd. Ensuring that kids are engaged in the process in a positive way. Surely that is something all but real racists can support. Rightly or wrongly the initial link to BLM and the negatives of knee bending are never going away and the real racists can simply hide behind people with genuine non racist objections. I personally would never BOO but I can't ignore the part of me that feels people have a right to object to something that they feel was imposed in a draconian way and from a situation and country that doesn't represent Britain or where we are in our fight against discrimination. You have a right to insist that bending the knee is the way forward. Others have the right to say they object to it and offer their reasons. But when there are alternatives that can be used it seems folly to me to insist on using the method that is quite clearly creating a bigger and bigger issue as time ticks on. Just seems like common sense to me.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 9, 2021 12:10:04 GMT
That simply ignores how all this started. We can all clearly see it has become divisive. There could be dozens of alternative ways to demonstrate a collective stand against racism without it being divisive. To stick with the American BLM import that is clearly divisive in no way represents any form of unity and to ignore the furore of how it started is to ignore uncomfortable yet undeniable fact. There is a clear choice, come up with something else or stick with something that is most definitely divisive. Those who truly want unity know what the right choice is. To not want that is naïve at best and at worst shows that some would rather this ends up becoming a bigger and more dangerous issue. might I suggest that you stop trying to make it so unnecessarily divisive, or trying to make it into a bigger and more dangerous issue then?...just a thought! the fact is this gesture was there long before BLM, or any other organisation, imported it....though that might just be an uncomfortable yet undeniable fact! I could drop dead this afternoon and it isn't going to change a thing. It is divisive and with valid reasons and will remain so because a considerable portion of the public find it so. When there are alternatives available it is nonsensical to carry on in the way we are. Almost like some really do want the whole thing to blow up. You are letting the real racists hide with those who have genuine objections, even if you personally find those objections to be daft. This can be avoided and we should do something about it.
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 9, 2021 12:42:41 GMT
Well said! For heavens sake, football is football! I don't give a flying toot if James McClean has x political view, if Tyrese Campbell supports y movement or if Charlie Adam is a secret WWE fan! I don't expect to have religion, politics, race, nationality or Covid stuffed down my throat when I want to be entertained. Absolutely, any form of bigotry and abuse is unacceptable, and anyone engaging in such behaviour needs to have stiff consequences that are swiftly and consistently applied regardless of the ethnicity, nationality, political leaning, religion, age. sex or whatever grouping is performing the abuse. But give me a break! In what world is it ok for people who have spent huge amounts to watch a game, movie, show, educational offering or whatever to be subjected to a display of the performers currently held beliefs? In most cases they happen to be blessed with a particular talent/skill but not with exceptional intelligence (and even if they were, they still aren't in the business of unsolicited evangelizing of their own beliefs), and or wide ranging experience. So you want us to stop singing the national anthem at England games and stop the minutes silence at the fixture closest to rememberance day? I don't and I think football would be worse if all politics was removed. The fact that you can't tell the difference between singing a country's national anthem or an official remembrance of the many millions of people who fought and died for our freedom and a form of protest that was started by an American gridiron player (primarily as a publicity stunt) tells me a lot. I am a Christian. Christians have been (and still are being) persecuted and killed throughout the ages and all over the world. I do not think we should have all the players kneeling and blessing themselves before each game. There are avenues to address legitimate issues, but for people to expect different treatment simply due to the color of skin they were born with is inherently racist. I do not support displays/behaviors of bigotry of any kind including an indication of support for an organization whose very name "Black Lives Matter" is racist in that it implies that lives of other groups don't matter. How about we demand that all players make a motion as if rocking a baby before each game to indicate support for the 42 Million unborn children that are killed every year? Yes, a ludicrous suggestion, but no more ludicrous than thinking it is acceptable to force a show of support on all of us for the less than 150 unarmed black people killed each year by police in the USA.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 12:44:53 GMT
I've been to his tombstone and didn't see what I have just written. And on what basis has capitalism killed more? Interested to hear how you've worked that one out. Why did you visit the tomb of Karl Marx? To baulk at his ideas? "Capitalist realism is a kind of anti-mythical myth: in claiming to have deflated all previous myths on which societies were based, whether the divine right of kings or the Marxist concept of historical materialism, it presents its own myth of the free individual exercising choice." Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? Fisher, M. Zero Books, 2009. Mark Fisher quoted on the Oatcake - I applaud you, sir. Taken from us waaaaaaaaaay too soon. Love that man. He would've had tons to say on our current version of the 'culture war', as much as that term is completely obfuscatory in regards to what this government and big business are doing behind the scenes.
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