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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 7, 2021 10:05:15 GMT
Should have been a foul outside the box, he dived and swung his leg when he got into it. The foul continued inside the box. The law is that it’s a penno. He let go when they entered the box which is why Grealish had to fake the contact with his leg.
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olias
Academy Starlet
Posts: 192
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Post by olias on Jun 7, 2021 10:17:32 GMT
Yeah, I feel the ref was conned. Which is a pity, because the refereeing I've seen over the past weeks' friendlies, has been excellent. Refs letting play continue, and 80's style tackles going on, without the whistle. I was enjoying it, then Grealish pulls out his party trick, the leg-lag.. Not pretty, bit you knew it was coming. But he has a reputation for it, along with a few others. Shame, 'cause otherwise, he's a good player.
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Post by erogenous on Jun 7, 2021 10:20:56 GMT
When its done domestically it winds me up and should be stopped.
But as stated when international or Europe games who cares as has been said on this thread they have been at it decades and seen as part of their game where it isn't in ours... . So basically I'm for diving all over the place in tournaments International and European football.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 7, 2021 10:25:42 GMT
It's a shame people are focusing on Jack Grealish's cheating and not his general play. He's like a throwback who always wants the ball. Remember when we had players who seemed like they wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible?
I love watching him play, he's quick, has good close control and passing and I think because he has quick feet and goes past defenders so easily the only way to stop him is to chop him down. There's no need for the rolling around and stuff though when he does.
I'm sure some people would prefer to watch midfield plodders who do nothing to change a game but are 'honest' so that's fine then. Those who would prefer a Dean Whitehead to a Bojan.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 10:26:51 GMT
When its done domestically it winds me up and should be stopped. But as stated when international or Europe games who cares as has been said on this thread they have been at it decades and seen as part of their game where it isn't in ours... . So basically I'm for diving all over the place in tournaments International and European football. To be fair England some dubious pens in games over the years, Argentina in particular. Cameroon one v keeper can never really make mind up over. As said those, those claiming is a new thing sneaking into the game are talking nonsense. Players don't get away with half what they used to at that level.
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Post by skip on Jun 7, 2021 10:31:13 GMT
Kicking lumps out of the opposition is cheating/gamesmanship just the same as the trailing leg. I don't mind a physically robust approach the game myself, but to say the bygone era was 'better' is no more than rose tinted nostalgia. Bojan wouldn't have lasted half a game in the English First Division in the 1970s or 80s. How is that a good thing?
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Post by iglugluk on Jun 7, 2021 10:58:42 GMT
Trailing your leg to gain a penalty is Cheating in my book. There are a lot of things in the modern game that piss me off no end.lies Would love it the game was played like it was in the 60s and 70s,but it won't happen,we will just have to sit and watch while the players find new ways to cheat. Yes, oh for the corinthian-spirited principles of football in the 1970s... www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52416192Good read
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 11:04:40 GMT
Would love it the game was played like it was in the 60s and 70s,but it won't happen,we will just have to sit and watch while the players find new ways to cheat.
The beautiful antics of some S American, Latin, estern European nations at tournaments and in European competition. All sadly missed. Elton John sized rose tinted specs. Was rife not just in those nations either. The diving, rolling around, spitting etc. Bring it all back. Good old days
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Post by iglugluk on Jun 7, 2021 11:05:31 GMT
Kicking lumps out of the opposition is cheating/gamesmanship just the same as the trailing leg. I don't mind a physically robust approach the game myself, but to say the bygone era was 'better' is no more than rose tinted nostalgia. Bojan wouldn't have lasted half a game in the English First Division in the 1970s or 80s. How is that a good thing? Agreed. A relatively recent example of the very negative impact this can have was on our own FA Cup final against Man City where Etherington was clearly carrying an injury from Bolton targeting him in the preceding match.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 7, 2021 11:19:53 GMT
Kicking lumps out of the opposition is cheating/gamesmanship just the same as the trailing leg. I don't mind a physically robust approach the game myself, but to say the bygone era was 'better' is no more than rose tinted nostalgia. Bojan wouldn't have lasted half a game in the English First Division in the 1970s or 80s. How is that a good thing? First of all I’m no fan of Liverpool but even I have to admit they were quite successful in the seventies eighties how if in those days players were kicked the shit out of did they regularly use such small number of players a season
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Post by skip on Jun 7, 2021 11:31:28 GMT
Kicking lumps out of the opposition is cheating/gamesmanship just the same as the trailing leg. I don't mind a physically robust approach the game myself, but to say the bygone era was 'better' is no more than rose tinted nostalgia. Bojan wouldn't have lasted half a game in the English First Division in the 1970s or 80s. How is that a good thing? First of all I’m no fan of Liverpool but even I have to admit they were quite successful in the seventies eighties how if in those days players were kicked the shit out of did they regularly use such small number of players a season Because they were better at football.
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Post by RF10 on Jun 7, 2021 11:46:55 GMT
I didn't see the incident but in general now fouls are given so minimal contact whether we like it or not. Unfortunately football is not the same as it was even 10 years ago.
Grealish does draw fouls and based on how today's game is its up to the opposition not to let him take advantage of this. He gets compared to Gazza a lot and if he was playing now I'm sure penalties and fouls would be given constantly in his favour.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 11:48:44 GMT
Kicking lumps out of the opposition is cheating/gamesmanship just the same as the trailing leg. I don't mind a physically robust approach the game myself, but to say the bygone era was 'better' is no more than rose tinted nostalgia. Bojan wouldn't have lasted half a game in the English First Division in the 1970s or 80s. How is that a good thing? Agreed. A relatively recent example of the very negative impact this can have was on our own FA Cup final against Man City where Etherington was clearly carrying an injury from Bolton targeting him in the preceding match. Wasn't itWolves? Just about every You Tube video has the same old guff about how great football used to be. Different era, players were nowhere near as fit as now and therefore less likely to get muscle injuries etc . Tackling was harder but the game was so much slower. If you watch say the European Cup in the 80s and 80s compared to the CL now is like a different sport. Forest v Malmo, the standard compared to the recent games is miles off but of its time. Play acting in the WC was embarrassing for an 8 year old kid to watch when seeing my first World Cups.
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Post by iglugluk on Jun 7, 2021 12:06:40 GMT
Agreed. A relatively recent example of the very negative impact this can have was on our own FA Cup final against Man City where Etherington was clearly carrying an injury from Bolton targeting him in the preceding match. Wasn't itWolves? Just about every You Tube video has the same old guff about how great football used to be. Different era, players were nowhere near as fit as now and therefore less likely to get muscle injuries etc . Tackling was harder but the game was so much slower. If you watch say the European Cup in the 80s and 80s compared to the CL now is like a different sport. Forest v Malmo, the standard compared to the recent games is miles off but of its time. Play acting in the WC was embarrassing for an 8 year old kid to watch when seeing my first World Cups. Pretty sure Etherington was targeted in the Bolton semifinal leaving him somewhat crocked afterwards. Yeah football was a hard man's game in the past but is now an athlete's sport. Whether that is better or worse depends on the preference of the individual viewer.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jun 7, 2021 12:18:49 GMT
We really do love to bash our best players don't we. One of the most exciting attacking players England has had for years, and all anyone focuses on is this? It's bullshit.
He got the shit kicked out of him last night and they were purposely targeting him. He does go down easier than I would like on occasion, but everyone does it and it's part of the game now, especially at international level. If you can't beat them, join them. It's exactly the same as what Nick Powell does, he knows people will kick him, so he intentionally draws fouls, it's a clever way to play.
It was a penalty in my opinion. He was being fouled outside of the box, carried on, came across his player and drew the foul, he knew exactly what he was doing and it won England the penalty and the game eventually.
Would any of you complain if he did it in the final and it won us the tournament I wonder?
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Post by a on Jun 7, 2021 12:25:55 GMT
I'm English, an England fan, Jack Grealish won us a penalty which won us the game. Good on the lad. Because I'll tell you something every other player in the Euros will be trying to do the same. If you can't beat em... Drawing fouls is a big part of the game now, for better or worse. Exactly this. It shouldn’t be in the game but it is. Stoke are woeful at the so called dark arts in terms of drawing a foul, only really Powell in recent years has that ‘ability’.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 7, 2021 12:32:44 GMT
It's a shame people are focusing on Jack Grealish's cheating and not his general play. He's like a throwback who always wants the ball. Remember when we had players who seemed like they wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible? I love watching him play, he's quick, has good close control and passing and I think because he has quick feet and goes past defenders so easily the only way to stop him is to chop him down. There's no need for the rolling around and stuff though when he does. I'm sure some people would prefer to watch midfield plodders who do nothing to change a game but are 'honest' so that's fine then. Those who would prefer a Dean Whitehead to a Bojan. He is a good player, but why can't he be a good player without throwing himself to the floor, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 7, 2021 12:37:40 GMT
We really do love to bash our best players don't we. One of the most exciting attacking players England has had for years, and all anyone focuses on is this? It's bullshit. He got the shit kicked out of him last night and they were purposely targeting him. He does go down easier than I would like on occasion, but everyone does it and it's part of the game now, especially at international level. If you can't beat them, join them. It's exactly the same as what Nick Powell does, he knows people will kick him, so he intentionally draws fouls, it's a clever way to play. It was a penalty in my opinion. He was being fouled outside of the box, carried on, came across his player and drew the foul, he knew exactly what he was doing and it won England the penalty and the game eventually. Would any of you complain if he did it in the final and it won us the tournament I wonder? Thats the problem, it shouldn't be and something worth while needs to be done about it not some nonsense yellow every once in a while.
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Post by hardcastle on Jun 7, 2021 13:02:04 GMT
I'm no fan of simulation, diving or play acting but when someone's gone past you inside the box it's rank bad judgement to think you can tackle him. By then, it's too late.
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jun 7, 2021 13:09:25 GMT
We really do love to bash our best players don't we. One of the most exciting attacking players England has had for years, and all anyone focuses on is this? It's bullshit. He got the shit kicked out of him last night and they were purposely targeting him. He does go down easier than I would like on occasion, but everyone does it and it's part of the game now, especially at international level. If you can't beat them, join them. It's exactly the same as what Nick Powell does, he knows people will kick him, so he intentionally draws fouls, it's a clever way to play. It was a penalty in my opinion. He was being fouled outside of the box, carried on, came across his player and drew the foul, he knew exactly what he was doing and it won England the penalty and the game eventually. Would any of you complain if he did it in the final and it won us the tournament I wonder? Thats the problem, it shouldn't be and something worth while needs to be done about it not some nonsense yellow every once in a while. It's just the way the game is now, and I don't think anything will ever be done about it in all honesty. I'm not saying I like it, I just think there is more to his game to comment about rather than this, especially when he's our player and winning us penalties/games. I find it really odd that people seem to love to slate our best players rather than praise them, happens all the time.
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Post by samwidge on Jun 7, 2021 13:34:00 GMT
Delighted with the win but have to ask what we’re your opinions re the penalty? Taking off my England specs and viewing the situation as a total neutral, or an opposition fan , what would I have thought about it ? It seemed to me that he , Grealish, battled past his opponent but then cut across him and trailed his leg LOOKING FOR CONTACT and a PENALTY! If correct is this cheating or just a part of the game we now accept? Great if it goes for you, but bloody infuriating when it’s against. ⚓️ It's cheating. Plain and simple. And all the pundits excusing and advocating it should hang there heads in shame.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 14:04:32 GMT
It's a shame people are focusing on Jack Grealish's cheating and not his general play. He's like a throwback who always wants the ball. Remember when we had players who seemed like they wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible? I love watching him play, he's quick, has good close control and passing and I think because he has quick feet and goes past defenders so easily the only way to stop him is to chop him down. There's no need for the rolling around and stuff though when he does. I'm sure some people would prefer to watch midfield plodders who do nothing to change a game but are 'honest' so that's fine then. Those who would prefer a Dean Whitehead to a Bojan. He is a good player, but why can't he be a good player without throwing himself to the floor, it doesn't have to be one or the other. He does take a lot of abuse but he's going over and moaning to the ref every time. Anyone who indicates to a ref to book someone should be immediately booked themselves. You've got your free kick which a lot of the time is what you were playing for, get on with it. Great player though
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2021 14:44:01 GMT
If you can't beat them join them.
The attitude to diving on here is very honourable but in the real world it's just cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Every bugger else does, so should we (Stoke and England).
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 7, 2021 15:04:43 GMT
Kicking lumps out of the opposition is cheating/gamesmanship just the same as the trailing leg. I don't mind a physically robust approach the game myself, but to say the bygone era was 'better' is no more than rose tinted nostalgia. Bojan wouldn't have lasted half a game in the English First Division in the 1970s or 80s. How is that a good thing? Agreed. A relatively recent example of the very negative impact this can have was on our own FA Cup final against Man City where Etherington was clearly carrying an injury from Bolton targeting him in the preceding match. Not to mention Man City themselves kicking fuck out of Pennant all game in the final as well
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 15:10:58 GMT
Agreed. A relatively recent example of the very negative impact this can have was on our own FA Cup final against Man City where Etherington was clearly carrying an injury from Bolton targeting him in the preceding match. Not to mention Man City themselves kicking fuck out of Pennant all game in the final as well Man City are the masters of the so called tactical foul. a player breaking in their half is taken out at the expense of a yellow. italy did it great in the early 80s but instead a player breaking away was clothes lined on the blind side of the ref then Gentile walked on his head as he got up
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 7, 2021 15:44:06 GMT
It was a Spanish Penalty...
Nah, it was a penalty for me. Defender caught him, needs to be more careful when he’s running back..
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Post by Veritas on Jun 7, 2021 17:57:21 GMT
Just watched the replay three times, if that was given against Stoke we would all be rightly screaming dive!
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Post by hardcastle on Jun 7, 2021 18:00:17 GMT
If you can't beat them join them. The attitude to diving on here is very honourable but in the real world it's just cutting your nose off to spite your face. Every bugger else does, so should we (Stoke and England). Early in Jermaine Pennant's time with us he went down just outside the box to win a free kick from which (l think) we scored. Possibly against Birmingham? But nobody had touched him. TP wasn't impressed and didn't select him for the next three matches. I wonder if any of those on here rightly scathing players' diving would give TP any credit for his stand?
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Post by Veritas on Jun 7, 2021 18:03:27 GMT
If you can't beat them join them. The attitude to diving on here is very honourable but in the real world it's just cutting your nose off to spite your face. Every bugger else does, so should we (Stoke and England). Should that logic extend to everything, for example drug taking for sprinters & cyclists?
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Post by dirtclod on Jun 7, 2021 18:11:59 GMT
Grealish goes around defenders instead of panic-passing, time and again he's in that position of being able to "trail a leg" for a penalty.
So the opposition off-ball fouls him when officials aren't looking, because he's a pest. Having said that, I don't like the histrionics either but - it works.
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