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Post by ashleyscfc on May 10, 2021 12:27:50 GMT
As we race towards getting the dead weight out by the end of next season, ive just read this: "I was actually heading towards this thread to post a list of Championship clubs- including this and last season- who haven't yet posted Accounts to CH, and it's quite a long list! In some cases there has been EFL related Disciplinary issues, in two- Wigan and Charlton- issues with takeovers that were on and off but it's quite long! Current Championship clubs who have not: Barnsley Blackburn- Though if consolidated are Venkys London Limited that may do it, albeit that runs until March 2020 so...can be a bit difficult to reconcile though. Cardiff- Both Club and Holdings Coventry (Trades under the name Otium Entertainment- or vice versa). Derby- The Club, the consolidated and all the small companies that make up the consolidated- not for two years, so to Summer 2018 posted in Spring of 2019. Huddersfield Luton- Both Club and Holdings. QPR- Both Club and Holdings. Stoke- Both Club and Holdings. Sheffield Wednesday- Be it the Club, the Parent/controlling company- Plus Sheffield 3 Limited (Stadium Purchasers) and Sheffield 5 Limited (The controlling company of Sheffield 3 Limited). Wycombe Clubs relegated to League One- The aforementioned Charlton and Wigan. Includes Club and all associated companies. Clubs relegated from PL- Watford, plus Hornets Investment Limited. Clubs promoted last season- Fulham. That's the Club, Fulham Football Leisure and the overall top company. Swansea have and Parachute Payments though they have had, credit where it is due. A PROFIT. Cut the wage bill by 1/6 as well and the Amortisation charge now <£10m- seem fairly sensibly run, keep selling as well- see Rodon to Tottenham. A slightly longer look shows Operating Expenses cut by £111m from 2017/18 to last season- so in two years. Compared to Stoke...well though no Accounts yet, they came down the same year as Swansea, therefore on the same Parachute Payments 3 year Schedule- their results maybe skewed by Accounts ending in May so some Parachute Payments deferred to 2020/21 is possible, whereas Swansea's Accounts until July. Stoke's are interesting as they include a £43m (IIRC) Impairment Charge and the club have claimed based on media Reports and snippets in Bet365 Accounts that of that, £30m could be considered to be an excludable cost under Covid- claimed to be "In accordance with EFL guidance". That means £87m-I dunno say £3m in Revenue losses directly attributable to Covid-£30m-£7m generally stated for their Allowable Costs (ours around £5m)- that is still £47m! However as we know Impairment reduces expenses in future years, but unsure how much in this instance- and it's skewed as well because the Bet365 Accounts are to late March, in a 12 month period- therefore Stoke's Accounts on there run until late March and incorporate April and May of the 2018/19 season...so it could push their losses higher still! One thing is for sure, Parachute Payments up next year- as they are for Cardiff- and both are staying down. Stoke by dint of the rollup will be on £39m loss limits next season, this year it's about £55.5m, due to the loss limits being different in PL and Championship and some sort of Averaging out Formula...can make guesswork as to whether their loss last season was higher, lower or the same but until their consolidated Accounts out it'll be hard to say! And rather interestingly- or might be nothing- Stoke City Property has shifted its Reporting Date to 31st May 2021 as opposed to end of March. 👀 Could be as simple as aligning with Club and Holdings or could be part of a Plan. By (pure coincidence?) they have appointed a Surveyor who was already on Stoke City Property and Stoke City FC as one of the Directors of Stoke City Holdings. Again could be alignment...or could be an (attempted) plan." From here www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/198743-the-championship-ffp-thread-merged/page/78/#comments |
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Post by LGH87 on May 10, 2021 12:39:59 GMT
As we race towards getting the dead weight out by the end of next season, ive just read this: "I was actually heading towards this thread to post a list of Championship clubs- including this and last season- who haven't yet posted Accounts to CH, and it's quite a long list! In some cases there has been EFL related Disciplinary issues, in two- Wigan and Charlton- issues with takeovers that were on and off but it's quite long! Current Championship clubs who have not: Barnsley Blackburn- Though if consolidated are Venkys London Limited that may do it, albeit that runs until March 2020 so...can be a bit difficult to reconcile though. Cardiff- Both Club and Holdings Coventry (Trades under the name Otium Entertainment- or vice versa). Derby- The Club, the consolidated and all the small companies that make up the consolidated- not for two years, so to Summer 2018 posted in Spring of 2019. Huddersfield Luton- Both Club and Holdings. QPR- Both Club and Holdings. Stoke- Both Club and Holdings. Sheffield Wednesday- Be it the Club, the Parent/controlling company- Plus Sheffield 3 Limited (Stadium Purchasers) and Sheffield 5 Limited (The controlling company of Sheffield 3 Limited). Wycombe Clubs relegated to League One- The aforementioned Charlton and Wigan. Includes Club and all associated companies. Clubs relegated from PL- Watford, plus Hornets Investment Limited. Clubs promoted last season- Fulham. That's the Club, Fulham Football Leisure and the overall top company. Swansea have and Parachute Payments though they have had, credit where it is due. A PROFIT. Cut the wage bill by 1/6 as well and the Amortisation charge now <£10m- seem fairly sensibly run, keep selling as well- see Rodon to Tottenham. A slightly longer look shows Operating Expenses cut by £111m from 2017/18 to last season- so in two years. Compared to Stoke...well though no Accounts yet, they came down the same year as Swansea, therefore on the same Parachute Payments 3 year Schedule- their results maybe skewed by Accounts ending in May so some Parachute Payments deferred to 2020/21 is possible, whereas Swansea's Accounts until July. Stoke's are interesting as they include a £43m (IIRC) Impairment Charge and the club have claimed based on media Reports and snippets in Bet365 Accounts that of that, £30m could be considered to be an excludable cost under Covid- claimed to be "In accordance with EFL guidance". That means £87m-I dunno say £3m in Revenue losses directly attributable to Covid-£30m-£7m generally stated for their Allowable Costs (ours around £5m)- that is still £47m! However as we know Impairment reduces expenses in future years, but unsure how much in this instance- and it's skewed as well because the Bet365 Accounts are to late March, in a 12 month period- therefore Stoke's Accounts on there run until late March and incorporate April and May of the 2018/19 season...so it could push their losses higher still! One thing is for sure, Parachute Payments up next year- as they are for Cardiff- and both are staying down. Stoke by dint of the rollup will be on £39m loss limits next season, this year it's about £55.5m, due to the loss limits being different in PL and Championship and some sort of Averaging out Formula...can make guesswork as to whether their loss last season was higher, lower or the same but until their consolidated Accounts out it'll be hard to say! And rather interestingly- or might be nothing- Stoke City Property has shifted its Reporting Date to 31st May 2021 as opposed to end of March. 👀 Could be as simple as aligning with Club and Holdings or could be part of a Plan. By (pure coincidence?) they have appointed a Surveyor who was already on Stoke City Property and Stoke City FC as one of the Directors of Stoke City Holdings. Again could be alignment...or could be an (attempted) plan." From here www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/198743-the-championship-ffp-thread-merged/page/78/#commentsIs he basically saying there's a chance we could be right up to or over the limit for FFP losses? Whilst also suggesting we could be getting creative in our ways and means to avoid this? |
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Post by thehoof on May 10, 2021 13:01:40 GMT
FFP guidelines have been in existence for years.
If we have fallen foul of them, then that rests solely at the feet of the CEO-he cannot claim it’s nothing to do with him; he is responsible for compliance with all necessary regulations.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I hope he is on top of this.
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 10, 2021 13:37:36 GMT
As we race towards getting the dead weight out by the end of next season, ive just read this: "I was actually heading towards this thread to post a list of Championship clubs- including this and last season- who haven't yet posted Accounts to CH, and it's quite a long list! In some cases there has been EFL related Disciplinary issues, in two- Wigan and Charlton- issues with takeovers that were on and off but it's quite long! Current Championship clubs who have not: Barnsley Blackburn- Though if consolidated are Venkys London Limited that may do it, albeit that runs until March 2020 so...can be a bit difficult to reconcile though. Cardiff- Both Club and Holdings Coventry (Trades under the name Otium Entertainment- or vice versa). Derby- The Club, the consolidated and all the small companies that make up the consolidated- not for two years, so to Summer 2018 posted in Spring of 2019. Huddersfield Luton- Both Club and Holdings. QPR- Both Club and Holdings. Stoke- Both Club and Holdings. Sheffield Wednesday- Be it the Club, the Parent/controlling company- Plus Sheffield 3 Limited (Stadium Purchasers) and Sheffield 5 Limited (The controlling company of Sheffield 3 Limited). Wycombe Clubs relegated to League One- The aforementioned Charlton and Wigan. Includes Club and all associated companies. Clubs relegated from PL- Watford, plus Hornets Investment Limited. Clubs promoted last season- Fulham. That's the Club, Fulham Football Leisure and the overall top company. Swansea have and Parachute Payments though they have had, credit where it is due. A PROFIT. Cut the wage bill by 1/6 as well and the Amortisation charge now <£10m- seem fairly sensibly run, keep selling as well- see Rodon to Tottenham. A slightly longer look shows Operating Expenses cut by £111m from 2017/18 to last season- so in two years. Compared to Stoke...well though no Accounts yet, they came down the same year as Swansea, therefore on the same Parachute Payments 3 year Schedule- their results maybe skewed by Accounts ending in May so some Parachute Payments deferred to 2020/21 is possible, whereas Swansea's Accounts until July. Stoke's are interesting as they include a £43m (IIRC) Impairment Charge and the club have claimed based on media Reports and snippets in Bet365 Accounts that of that, £30m could be considered to be an excludable cost under Covid- claimed to be "In accordance with EFL guidance". That means £87m-I dunno say £3m in Revenue losses directly attributable to Covid-£30m-£7m generally stated for their Allowable Costs (ours around £5m)- that is still £47m! However as we know Impairment reduces expenses in future years, but unsure how much in this instance- and it's skewed as well because the Bet365 Accounts are to late March, in a 12 month period- therefore Stoke's Accounts on there run until late March and incorporate April and May of the 2018/19 season...so it could push their losses higher still! One thing is for sure, Parachute Payments up next year- as they are for Cardiff- and both are staying down. Stoke by dint of the rollup will be on £39m loss limits next season, this year it's about £55.5m, due to the loss limits being different in PL and Championship and some sort of Averaging out Formula...can make guesswork as to whether their loss last season was higher, lower or the same but until their consolidated Accounts out it'll be hard to say! And rather interestingly- or might be nothing- Stoke City Property has shifted its Reporting Date to 31st May 2021 as opposed to end of March. 👀 Could be as simple as aligning with Club and Holdings or could be part of a Plan. By (pure coincidence?) they have appointed a Surveyor who was already on Stoke City Property and Stoke City FC as one of the Directors of Stoke City Holdings. Again could be alignment...or could be an (attempted) plan." From here www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/198743-the-championship-ffp-thread-merged/page/78/#commentsIt’s one big mess. They just need to get rid of it. In the current climate is it really appropriate to keep it going. Aren’t there bigger things to worry about. |
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Post by crapslinger on May 10, 2021 15:14:18 GMT
FFP guidelines have been in existence for years. If we have fallen foul of them, then that rests solely at the feet of the CEO-he cannot claim it’s nothing to do with him; he is responsible for compliance with all necessary regulations. As I’ve said elsewhere, I hope he is on top of this. Here endeth the myth of the well run club Stoke City. |
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Post by spitthedog on May 10, 2021 15:20:23 GMT
FFP guidelines have been in existence for years. If we have fallen foul of them, then that rests solely at the feet of the CEO-he cannot claim it’s nothing to do with him; he is responsible for compliance with all necessary regulations. As I’ve said elsewhere, I hope he is on top of this. Here endeth the myth of the well run club Stoke City. so we'll assume you will congratulate them if it transpires that they have found a creative way around this? |
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Post by Squeekster on May 10, 2021 15:24:31 GMT
As we race towards getting the dead weight out by the end of next season, ive just read this: "I was actually heading towards this thread to post a list of Championship clubs- including this and last season- who haven't yet posted Accounts to CH, and it's quite a long list! In some cases there has been EFL related Disciplinary issues, in two- Wigan and Charlton- issues with takeovers that were on and off but it's quite long! Current Championship clubs who have not: Barnsley Blackburn- Though if consolidated are Venkys London Limited that may do it, albeit that runs until March 2020 so...can be a bit difficult to reconcile though. Cardiff- Both Club and Holdings Coventry (Trades under the name Otium Entertainment- or vice versa). Derby- The Club, the consolidated and all the small companies that make up the consolidated- not for two years, so to Summer 2018 posted in Spring of 2019. Huddersfield Luton- Both Club and Holdings. QPR- Both Club and Holdings. Stoke- Both Club and Holdings. Sheffield Wednesday- Be it the Club, the Parent/controlling company- Plus Sheffield 3 Limited (Stadium Purchasers) and Sheffield 5 Limited (The controlling company of Sheffield 3 Limited). Wycombe Clubs relegated to League One- The aforementioned Charlton and Wigan. Includes Club and all associated companies. Clubs relegated from PL- Watford, plus Hornets Investment Limited. Clubs promoted last season- Fulham. That's the Club, Fulham Football Leisure and the overall top company. Swansea have and Parachute Payments though they have had, credit where it is due. A PROFIT. Cut the wage bill by 1/6 as well and the Amortisation charge now <£10m- seem fairly sensibly run, keep selling as well- see Rodon to Tottenham. A slightly longer look shows Operating Expenses cut by £111m from 2017/18 to last season- so in two years. Compared to Stoke...well though no Accounts yet, they came down the same year as Swansea, therefore on the same Parachute Payments 3 year Schedule- their results maybe skewed by Accounts ending in May so some Parachute Payments deferred to 2020/21 is possible, whereas Swansea's Accounts until July. Stoke's are interesting as they include a £43m (IIRC) Impairment Charge and the club have claimed based on media Reports and snippets in Bet365 Accounts that of that, £30m could be considered to be an excludable cost under Covid- claimed to be "In accordance with EFL guidance". That means £87m-I dunno say £3m in Revenue losses directly attributable to Covid-£30m-£7m generally stated for their Allowable Costs (ours around £5m)- that is still £47m! However as we know Impairment reduces expenses in future years, but unsure how much in this instance- and it's skewed as well because the Bet365 Accounts are to late March, in a 12 month period- therefore Stoke's Accounts on there run until late March and incorporate April and May of the 2018/19 season...so it could push their losses higher still! One thing is for sure, Parachute Payments up next year- as they are for Cardiff- and both are staying down. Stoke by dint of the rollup will be on £39m loss limits next season, this year it's about £55.5m, due to the loss limits being different in PL and Championship and some sort of Averaging out Formula...can make guesswork as to whether their loss last season was higher, lower or the same but until their consolidated Accounts out it'll be hard to say! And rather interestingly- or might be nothing- Stoke City Property has shifted its Reporting Date to 31st May 2021 as opposed to end of March. 👀 Could be as simple as aligning with Club and Holdings or could be part of a Plan. By (pure coincidence?) they have appointed a Surveyor who was already on Stoke City Property and Stoke City FC as one of the Directors of Stoke City Holdings. Again could be alignment...or could be an (attempted) plan." From here www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/198743-the-championship-ffp-thread-merged/page/78/#commentsI don't think the date has anything to do with it, everyone was given extra time to get their accounts done, although the football league decided to slap transfer bans on clubs I think we are one, although it will get taken back as it's the government who have sanctioned this. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 17:54:50 GMT
FFP guidelines have been in existence for years. If we have fallen foul of them, then that rests solely at the feet of the CEO-he cannot claim it’s nothing to do with him; he is responsible for compliance with all necessary regulations. As I’ve said elsewhere, I hope he is on top of this. Here endeth the myth of the well run club Stoke City. in what way does it? Have we been punished for FFP breaches to date? |
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Post by wuzza on May 10, 2021 18:03:23 GMT
Here endeth the myth of the well run club Stoke City. in what way does it? Have we been punished for FFP breaches to date? Our Chief Exec is guilty till proven innocent .....of everything !! |
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Post by Goonie on May 10, 2021 18:04:10 GMT
In my naivety I have always wondered why BET365 just couldn't offer a ridiculously huge shirt sponsorship deal to blow FFP out the water?
I guess it would seem fishy with TS brokering such a good deal for the club!
Like an old nag winning The Derby by 3 lengths!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 18:34:48 GMT
In my naivety I have always wondered why BET365 just couldn't offer a ridiculously huge shirt sponsorship deal to blow FFP out the water? I guess it would seem fishy with TS brokering such a good deal for the club! Like an old nag winning The Derby by 3 lengths! The sponsorship from owners can't account for more than 30% of a club's revenue, Didn't PSG try that one with Neymar? |
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Post by crapslinger on May 10, 2021 19:15:08 GMT
Here endeth the myth of the well run club Stoke City. so we'll assume you will congratulate them if it transpires that they have found a creative way around this? Are you really trying to say the club is well run,13 players out on loan £90m + loss the worst squad we have had for many years, shocking football, flirting with breaching FFP rules, mid table mediocrity, five managers in three years, an abysmal transfer record wow are you Tony Scholes  |
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Post by crapslinger on May 10, 2021 19:22:17 GMT
in what way does it? Have we been punished for FFP breaches to date? Our Chief Exec is guilty till proven innocent .....of everything !! He can't be guilty of anything as he appears to have no responsibility for anything, it's all down to the managers our board have employed .......oh hang on isn't he a member of the board  |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 10, 2021 19:30:18 GMT
In my naivety I have always wondered why BET365 just couldn't offer a ridiculously huge shirt sponsorship deal to blow FFP out the water? I guess it would seem fishy with TS brokering such a good deal for the club! Like an old nag winning The Derby by 3 lengths! The sponsorship from owners can't account for more than 30% of a club's revenue, Didn't PSG try that one with Neymar? How did Derby get round 32Red or whoever it is paying Fat Larry's wages then? |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 10, 2021 19:31:05 GMT
so we'll assume you will congratulate them if it transpires that they have found a creative way around this? Are you really trying to say the club is well run,13 players out on loan £90m + loss the worst squad we have had for many years, shocking football, flirting with breaching FFP rules, mid table mediocrity, five managers in three years, an abysmal transfer record wow are you Tony Scholes Dare say it's a good job we got some early points on board, otherwise it wouldn't even be "Mid-table Mediocrity"!!! Not judging by how the second half of the season went!!! |
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Post by sportsman on May 10, 2021 19:54:09 GMT
Could someone from outside make a massive investment into the club. How about the Coates family put about 100m into my bank account, I'll then approach the club and make a 95m offer into the club as an investment and sponsorship, and I can pocket the other 5m for my troubles? 😁
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Post by mowlee on May 10, 2021 20:06:39 GMT
There’s a good possibility we could get a point deduction next season aswell as afew other clubs
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Post by mowlee on May 10, 2021 20:10:46 GMT
Also if we did get a deduction.. it’s a pity we couldn’t take it now.. 12 point deduction an we still stay up on 48 points
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Post by andystokey on May 10, 2021 20:10:46 GMT
The sponsorship from owners can't account for more than 30% of a club's revenue, Didn't PSG try that one with Neymar? How did Derby get round 32Red or whoever it is paying Fat Larry's wages then? I think it's because he was player manager. The managerial part attracted the money not the player bit. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2021 20:15:38 GMT
I thought we put our accounts in and all businesses had an extention to the period because of Covid? And the new dirctor who is a surveyor is Denise's husband. So I don't think it's anything sinister  |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 20:21:20 GMT
There’s a good possibility we could get a point deduction next season aswell as afew other clubs Is there? What is that based on? |
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Post by stuammo on May 10, 2021 20:26:22 GMT
In my naivety I have always wondered why BET365 just couldn't offer a ridiculously huge shirt sponsorship deal to blow FFP out the water? I guess it would seem fishy with TS brokering such a good deal for the club! Like an old nag winning The Derby by 3 lengths! Or the Coates family agree to pay £20m a season for 4 parking spaces outside the ground?? |
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Post by LH_SCFC on May 10, 2021 20:30:30 GMT
In my naivety I have always wondered why BET365 just couldn't offer a ridiculously huge shirt sponsorship deal to blow FFP out the water? I guess it would seem fishy with TS brokering such a good deal for the club! Like an old nag winning The Derby by 3 lengths! Or the Coates family agree to pay £20m a season for 4 parking spaces outside the ground?? There’s a few rules and regulations about accounting, auditing and arm’s length deals at fair value... Nice try though. |
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Post by spitthedog on May 10, 2021 20:31:41 GMT
so we'll assume you will congratulate them if it transpires that they have found a creative way around this? Are you really trying to say the club is well run,13 players out on loan £90m + loss the worst squad we have had for many years, shocking football, flirting with breaching FFP rules, mid table mediocrity, five managers in three years, an abysmal transfer record wow are you Tony Scholes Just not making any prejudgements on this one, that's all, until we have the details. I notice you seem to be complaining about 5 manager's in 3 years. Is that because you would prefer it to be 6 |
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Post by thebet365 on May 10, 2021 20:39:53 GMT
I thought we put our accounts in and all businesses had an extention to the period because of Covid? And the new dirctor who is a surveyor is Denise's husband. So I don't think it's anything sinister We still haven't submitted the club accounts. We've got until 28th May. What bits we do know are from the bet 365 accounts. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2021 20:42:06 GMT
I thought we put our accounts in and all businesses had an extention to the period because of Covid? And the new dirctor who is a surveyor is Denise's husband. So I don't think it's anything sinister We still haven't submitted the club accounts. We've got until 28th May. What bits we do know are from the bet 365 accounts. Ah ok! Makes sense. |
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Post by stuammo on May 10, 2021 20:43:27 GMT
Or the Coates family agree to pay £20m a season for 4 parking spaces outside the ground?? There’s a few rules and regulations about accounting, auditing and arm’s length deals at fair value... Nice try though. I get that really........but it really is bullshit that a wealthy family aren’t allowed to invest within their means, into a football club. I understand that FFP tried to protect clubs and prevent dire financial situations but is failed in that sense too. It really needs to be abolished and some other system be implemented. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 10, 2021 20:57:40 GMT
Could someone from outside make a massive investment into the club. How about the Coates family put about 100m into my bank account, I'll then approach the club and make a 95m offer into the club as an investment and sponsorship, and I can pocket the other 5m for my troubles? 😁 Sounds like the kind of thing the current UK government does. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 10, 2021 21:08:38 GMT
There’s a good possibility we could get a point deduction next season aswell as afew other clubs Where did you get this from? Was it Danny off Twitter? |
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Post by Royal Donut on May 10, 2021 21:21:25 GMT
In my naivety I have always wondered why BET365 just couldn't offer a ridiculously huge shirt sponsorship deal to blow FFP out the water? I guess it would seem fishy with TS brokering such a good deal for the club! Like an old nag winning The Derby by 3 lengths! The sponsorship from owners can't account for more than 30% of a club's revenue, Didn't PSG try that one with Neymar? Which is a joke, so our owners can sponsor man utd with a shirt deal of 300million, but can't do the same deal for Stoke. I could go on all day about FFP and there rules been a massive joke. Many that go against common sense. For a team that's got money in times like this and not been able to invest into the sport is a crime in its self. If allowed we could buy off a club like Bury or Macclesfield (but ffp rules maybe not allowing us) now they are not around. FFP keeps the football prymid as it is, the top at the top and the bottom fuc,,,,,, |
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