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Post by Sfance on May 1, 2021 21:00:53 GMT
Anyone know any rich Icelandics?
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Post by mickstupp on May 1, 2021 21:04:18 GMT
I agree. It’s got the potential to be a messy, finger pointing, self preservation exercise when things go wrong. I’d also worry about how the players would look at it. Who’s actually in charge? It’s more holistic than that. It’s a collaborative process. Yes and it will be interesting to see how it plays out at the Vale. So far so good, I guess.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 1, 2021 21:07:02 GMT
It’s more holistic than that. It’s a collaborative process. Yes and it will be interesting to see how it plays out at the Vale. So far so good, I guess. I’m not sure how well it can work at that level but I think with the right appointments it’s certainly a good model at ours and above.
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Post by potterpaul on May 1, 2021 21:13:12 GMT
It’s a more long term thing though imo. Managers shouldn’t be at a club longer than 3 years ideally for me. A technical director would be long term and strategic. Why 3 years? That makes no sense. So, if a manager take over under a technical director and the following unfolds: Year 1: safety from relegation Year 2: play off final Year 3: promotion You’d turn around and say, “okay thanks for that, good luck with the rest of your career?” Yes. The next manager would be planned a season before. It's a far better system than the current way we run things where we wait for failure to happen before acting and finding no one half decent wants the job.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 21:21:00 GMT
Why 3 years? That makes no sense. So, if a manager take over under a technical director and the following unfolds: Year 1: safety from relegation Year 2: play off final Year 3: promotion You’d turn around and say, “okay thanks for that, good luck with the rest of your career?” I said ideally. I just think after 3 years now managers tend to struggle unless they’re very very good. So no. You’re looking at it way too black and white. Okay, so performance related then. I agree. That should be what people are hired upon. I also agree with the point that managers tend to fizzle after a few years, or fans lose patience. I still don’t particularly see how it’s a solution in all circumstances. It completely relies on the technical director being good enough and gives that person a scapegoat for when they’ve been failing. How do you handle that situation? How long do you give a technical director? How many managers can they burn through before you have to change them as well? I’m genuinely curious as to your opinion hear, as you brought up the need for it at Stoke, and I don’t know at what point you’d say it wasn’t working. Would it be 1 year if we got relegated, or 3 years if we were still in this division, or 5 years?
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Post by Pugsley on May 1, 2021 21:22:14 GMT
If we all know the owners will never embrace this model, and it's something we definitely need, why aren't you calling for new ownership? I’m not averse to that at all. It’s a huge risk, as I think the owners genuinely care about the club and selling could go either way, but we need more vision and cohesion and imagination than the owners have. I suggested new owners a few years ago, wasn't popular, whatever. I think things could change if Scholes was removed, fat chance though.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 1, 2021 21:32:58 GMT
I’m not averse to that at all. It’s a huge risk, as I think the owners genuinely care about the club and selling could go either way, but we need more vision and cohesion and imagination than the owners have. I suggested new owners a few years ago, wasn't popular, whatever. I think things could change if Scholes was removed, fat chance though. I think things would only change if the structure changed at the same time. If they just brought in another CEO I think people would realise pretty quickly that the bogeyman wasn’t the sole source of all the problems after all.
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Post by Pugsley on May 1, 2021 21:35:52 GMT
I suggested new owners a few years ago, wasn't popular, whatever. I think things could change if Scholes was removed, fat chance though. I think things would only change if the structure changed at the same time. If they just brought in another CEO I think people would realise pretty quickly that the bogeyman wasn’t the sole source of all the problems after all. No but perhaps a new man would bring a bit more energy. Things are so fucking stale.
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Post by spitthedog on May 1, 2021 22:10:57 GMT
*bar when we were relegated. Sack MoN Sack Scholes Sack the Millwall podcaster or whatever he was. Technical director in Head coach in New business/commercial lead in It’s what the club needs. There won’t be a better time for it with the contract situation in 2022 and the young players we have coming through. We needed a clear out when we were relegated and despite changing 2 of the 3 main positions at the club nothing has changed. The root and branch overhaul needs to happen. We need a technical director who is above the manager. Who decides how this club is going forward from top to bottom football wise. And they appoint a manager to suit that style. The model we have currently just isn’t sustainable. It’s the only way forward. If it's a total clear out, why not the Coates family sell up?
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Post by PotterLog on May 1, 2021 22:58:53 GMT
But ultimately, it would be weighted for overall performance of the first team, right. “Good recruitment” only looks good if the players signed perform. They may well be good signings that aren’t working in that manager’s style. If they don’t perform, you can put all the blame on the manager (who you’d have employed). I am genuinely confused by this concept. I’m sure it works in some teams. I’m sure it fails in others. How many unsuccessful managers would it take for the club to remove a technical director? If it’s a long-term project, do you just keep them on, even if the team is failing hard, but other areas of the club are doing well? I agree. It’s got the potential to be a messy, finger pointing, self preservation exercise when things go wrong. I’d also worry about how the players would look at it. Who’s actually in charge? Isn’t this just being a worry wart about it? Sure, there will be risks involved and ira possible things might go wrong about it. But it’s a model that works for a hell of a lot of clubs who have their finger on the pulse of the modern game.
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Post by PotterLog on May 1, 2021 22:58:53 GMT
But ultimately, it would be weighted for overall performance of the first team, right. “Good recruitment” only looks good if the players signed perform. They may well be good signings that aren’t working in that manager’s style. If they don’t perform, you can put all the blame on the manager (who you’d have employed). I am genuinely confused by this concept. I’m sure it works in some teams. I’m sure it fails in others. How many unsuccessful managers would it take for the club to remove a technical director? If it’s a long-term project, do you just keep them on, even if the team is failing hard, but other areas of the club are doing well? I agree. It’s got the potential to be a messy, finger pointing, self preservation exercise when things go wrong. I’d also worry about how the players would look at it. Who’s actually in charge? Isn’t this just being a worry wart about it? Sure, there will be risks involved and it’s possible things might go wrong about it. But it’s a model that works for a hell of a lot of clubs who have their finger on the pulse of the modern game.
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Post by PotterLog on May 1, 2021 23:08:59 GMT
*bar when we were relegated. Sack MoN Sack Scholes Sack the Millwall podcaster or whatever he was. Technical director in Head coach in New business/commercial lead in It’s what the club needs. There won’t be a better time for it with the contract situation in 2022 and the young players we have coming through. We needed a clear out when we were relegated and despite changing 2 of the 3 main positions at the club nothing has changed. The root and branch overhaul needs to happen. We need a technical director who is above the manager. Who decides how this club is going forward from top to bottom football wise. And they appoint a manager to suit that style. The model we have currently just isn’t sustainable. It’s the only way forward. If it's a total clear out, why not the Coates family sell up? Why would that be necessary if they were willing to do something like what the OP suggested?* *I know they probably won’t be
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Post by citynickscfc on May 1, 2021 23:16:41 GMT
*bar when we were relegated. Sack MoN Sack Scholes Sack the Millwall podcaster or whatever he was. Technical director in Head coach in New business/commercial lead in It’s what the club needs. There won’t be a better time for it with the contract situation in 2022 and the young players we have coming through. We needed a clear out when we were relegated and despite changing 2 of the 3 main positions at the club nothing has changed. The root and branch overhaul needs to happen. We need a technical director who is above the manager. Who decides how this club is going forward from top to bottom football wise. And they appoint a manager to suit that style. The model we have currently just isn’t sustainable. It’s the only way forward. This is how the club should have been evolved year's ago even we actually had financial muscle to better such changes. We are now basically a club with a manager than has no money or budget for the foreseeable future and no structure to support talent scouting, finding gems etc, our one chance is the academy really and even then I can see that declining with our falling position and lack of potential to poach young talent.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 23:25:04 GMT
The fact it is a dream shows how poor the owners are at running the club. It was suggested at least 3 years ago that these owners need to sell up and those saying it (I was one), were laughed out of town.
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Post by kustokie on May 1, 2021 23:44:42 GMT
The capped one is available - sorry couldn’t resist. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by Olgrligm on May 2, 2021 1:09:24 GMT
I admit that I'm writing this from having decided to write off this season as a lost cause. I'm very much in favour of O'Neill and take the view that there's nothing more to be learnt in the back end of this year, so I've also somewhat paradoxically decided to not both wasting the last few matchdays watching us amble about the pitch.
O'Neill is the sporting director. He's just called a manager and doesn't have a patsy standing on the touchline to take the flak when results are bad. We're getting closer to a time where sporting directors will become a tradeable commodity like managers and clubs will start sacking their sporting directors as regularly as they sack managers. If we're going to talk about visions, then we need to talk about three and five year plans with O'Neill and working towards a specific goal.
We can have a clear out of all of the playing staff, but that completely ignores the players who have cost the last two managers their job. That's two managers who are now managing much smaller, less wealthy clubs and who are both well above us in the table. Jones' Luton are a fourth division team who have sold their best players, but he's got them four points above us with a game in hand. That doesn't reflect brilliantly on our players who went around thumping their chests and posting pictures of themselves dancing on Jones' grave. These are, collectively the players who ultimately drove Rowett and Jones stark raving mad by the end of their tenures and who now have O'Neill wittering on about changing the throw-in laws. We're stuck with the vast majority of them until 2022 and no amount of reshuffling of the backroom staff is going to change that.
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Post by dirtclod on May 2, 2021 3:42:26 GMT
Re: Club total overhaul, call the Cubans! Raoul is stepping down now so the revolutionaries need a new place to crash...let them clear out the office trash. A one-day mission, anything more and we're likely to all end up driving Desotos and LaSalles, while the visitors turn the club into a baseball team. Hey, bet the cigars at the stadium would be good!
The above is more likely to happen unless somebody....suddenly sees what all the fuss is about.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 2, 2021 5:21:33 GMT
Sounds expensive.......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 2, 2021 6:48:23 GMT
I admit that I'm writing this from having decided to write off this season as a lost cause. I'm very much in favour of O'Neill and take the view that there's nothing more to be learnt in the back end of this year, so I've also somewhat paradoxically decided to not both wasting the last few matchdays watching us amble about the pitch. O'Neill is the sporting director. He's just called a manager and doesn't have a patsy standing on the touchline to take the flak when results are bad. We're getting closer to a time where sporting directors will become a tradeable commodity like managers and clubs will start sacking their sporting directors as regularly as they sack managers. If we're going to talk about visions, then we need to talk about three and five year plans with O'Neill and working towards a specific goal. We can have a clear out of all of the playing staff, but that completely ignores the players who have cost the last two managers their job. That's two managers who are now managing much smaller, less wealthy clubs and who are both well above us in the table. Jones' Luton are a fourth division team who have sold their best players, but he's got them four points above us with a game in hand. That doesn't reflect brilliantly on our players who went around thumping their chests and posting pictures of themselves dancing on Jones' grave. These are, collectively the players who ultimately drove Rowett and Jones stark raving mad by the end of their tenures and who now have O'Neill wittering on about changing the throw-in laws. We're stuck with the vast majority of them until 2022 and no amount of reshuffling of the backroom staff is going to change that. That’s the issue MD, the fact that the manager has too much say in driving every aspect. It means that when it fails, we appoint a completely different manager with different ideas and a bunch of players who don’t suit them and start from scratch again. Having someone above them to bring a link between the pitch and the boardroom - establishing an identity/vision in everything from the academy, to recruitment, to how the team plays - means that the manager, like the players, needs to be the right fit for those principles. How is that not better than the pin the tail on the donkey approach we use to appointing managers where we just try and find someone who’s the opposite of the previous failure?
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Post by J-Roar on May 2, 2021 7:31:52 GMT
Unfortunately, the owners - apart from being ridiculously wealthy - are a liability. They've been hoodwinked by Scholes who, when charged with doing a root and branch review, did nothing. This was mainly because he had a vested interest in doing nothing as a key conclusion would have been to get rid of the chief executive as he does not offer value for money.
We have tried the old manager-led approach again and again and it simply doesn't work any more.
The owners either need to sell - which I don't want them to do - or admit their failings and bring in someone to run the show. Unfortunately I think ego would get in the way of that.
I also feel sorry for MoN. He's stuck with a squad of leaching twats who no one else wants. From his comments yesterday he realises that he's got another 12 months of this before he can begin to address it.
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Post by Olgrligm on May 2, 2021 9:46:56 GMT
I admit that I'm writing this from having decided to write off this season as a lost cause. I'm very much in favour of O'Neill and take the view that there's nothing more to be learnt in the back end of this year, so I've also somewhat paradoxically decided to not both wasting the last few matchdays watching us amble about the pitch. O'Neill is the sporting director. He's just called a manager and doesn't have a patsy standing on the touchline to take the flak when results are bad. We're getting closer to a time where sporting directors will become a tradeable commodity like managers and clubs will start sacking their sporting directors as regularly as they sack managers. If we're going to talk about visions, then we need to talk about three and five year plans with O'Neill and working towards a specific goal. We can have a clear out of all of the playing staff, but that completely ignores the players who have cost the last two managers their job. That's two managers who are now managing much smaller, less wealthy clubs and who are both well above us in the table. Jones' Luton are a fourth division team who have sold their best players, but he's got them four points above us with a game in hand. That doesn't reflect brilliantly on our players who went around thumping their chests and posting pictures of themselves dancing on Jones' grave. These are, collectively the players who ultimately drove Rowett and Jones stark raving mad by the end of their tenures and who now have O'Neill wittering on about changing the throw-in laws. We're stuck with the vast majority of them until 2022 and no amount of reshuffling of the backroom staff is going to change that. That’s the issue MD, the fact that the manager has too much say in driving every aspect. It means that when it fails, we appoint a completely different manager with different ideas and a bunch of players who don’t suit them and start from scratch again. Having someone above them to bring a link between the pitch and the boardroom - establishing an identity/vision in everything from the academy, to recruitment, to how the team plays - means that the manager, like the players, needs to be the right fit for those principles. How is that not better than the pin the tail on the donkey approach we use to appointing managers where we just try and find someone who’s the opposite of the previous failure? I don't disagree with the approach to getting managers in. One of the most disappointing things about Jones (apart from the obvious) was that I thought it heralded a new way of doing things. I thought we were investing in a young manager, focusing on a long project, bringing in somebody with a strong football identity to lay real foundations and so on. Then came the Coates Jr interview where it became apparent that he'd been appointed on the basis that he was 'good' without much thought beyond that. Good manager = good results. Again, there might be a logic to O'Neill as a very tactical, pragmatic manager who cuts his cloth according to what he has, but I suspect his appointment was simply down to the 'good manager = good results' logic. We are at a bit of a crossroads now, but I think O'Neill is an intelligent manager who is as good as we're going to get. The wheels have come off as the most expensively assembled squad in Championship history has decided that it can't be bothered finishing the season off and the manager is at his wits' end, but hopefully some TLC in the summer coupled with smart player turnover will get us back on track. The number one priority has to be to clear out as much of the squad as possible this summer. This is the second season out of three where they've downed tools after Christmas. This is the third manager on the verge of losing the plot. However, the club should also be committing to a long term project with O'Neill and laying proper long term foundations with him.
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samuel32
Youth Player
Jack Clarke's Shorts
Posts: 367
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Post by samuel32 on May 2, 2021 9:52:43 GMT
Beginning to think Denise Coates is the only one who knows what she's doing in the family. Denise does the stuff that really matters, while the lads have their play thing to keep them busy. MON says he needs to improve the club. This shouldn't just be the managers job. Is anyone at the top wondering why the club needs improving so much? I doubt it.
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Post by citynickscfc on May 2, 2021 9:55:52 GMT
Where do we go after O'Niell tho? We should already have a vision. This club really doesn't have it together at all..., That's where the idea of a technical director comes in with a concept of style to adapt over 5, 10, 20+ years. We are in the dark ages
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Post by nottsover60 on May 2, 2021 9:57:09 GMT
I wouldn’t lose any sleep if MON plus all his staff plus Scholes left the club before the season ends. Plus the players..... don’t forget the players. I wonder if anywhere in the world, that a club at one point has just “ on yer bike” to a whole squad and just started over.....? Would it be so terrible? Them shite hawks on the pitch couldn’t have been less interested today if they tried Yes it would be disastrous. Like it or not the players are the club's assets, get rid of them all and we'd have no assets and we'd have to pay them compensation for the wages they'd lose on the rest of their contract plus some probably. How would that help our situation? Don't you think we'd have got rid of the likes of Wimmer ages ago if it was that easy? In the real world where are you then going to get a new squad of players? And please don't say the academy because we've seen recently how even the best academy players are way off the standard needed at Championship level.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 2, 2021 10:01:11 GMT
*bar when we were relegated. Sack MoN Sack Scholes Sack the Millwall podcaster or whatever he was. Technical director in Head coach in New business/commercial lead in It’s what the club needs. There won’t be a better time for it with the contract situation in 2022 and the young players we have coming through. We needed a clear out when we were relegated and despite changing 2 of the 3 main positions at the club nothing has changed. The root and branch overhaul needs to happen. We need a technical director who is above the manager. Who decides how this club is going forward from top to bottom football wise. And they appoint a manager to suit that style. The model we have currently just isn’t sustainable. It’s the only way forward. If it's a total clear out, why not the Coates family sell up? Like Derby you mean? They're finding it really easy to find new owners aren't they. The best thing about our club is being owned by the Coates family who are rich enough and love the club enough to pour millions down the drain to keep us afloat.
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 2, 2021 10:10:16 GMT
He’s presumably answerable to the owners and he’s judged on the club’s overall performance, on the pitch, recruitment, academy development, all the stuff he oversees? Agreed, with a completely separate Commercial Director/CCO/CRO to focus on growing us as a brand and maximise the revenue into the club and our commercial exposure. Bet 365 are pretty savvy at this kind of thing, maybe there’s someone there we could ask for some advice???
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Post by Squeekster on May 2, 2021 10:33:31 GMT
Bring in who the hell you want but until we get rid of two thirds of that squad nothings going to change!
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Post by pushon on May 2, 2021 10:35:47 GMT
Agreed, with a completely separate Commercial Director/CCO/CRO to focus on growing us as a brand and maximise the revenue into the club and our commercial exposure. Bet 365 are pretty savvy at this kind of thing, maybe there’s someone there we could ask for some advice??? John Coates is the joint-CEO of Bet365 and they seem to perform quite well.
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Post by davejohnno1 on May 2, 2021 10:57:48 GMT
*bar when we were relegated. Sack MoN Sack Scholes Sack the Millwall podcaster or whatever he was. Technical director in Head coach in New business/commercial lead in It’s what the club needs. There won’t be a better time for it with the contract situation in 2022 and the young players we have coming through. We needed a clear out when we were relegated and despite changing 2 of the 3 main positions at the club nothing has changed. The root and branch overhaul needs to happen. We need a technical director who is above the manager. Who decides how this club is going forward from top to bottom football wise. And they appoint a manager to suit that style. The model we have currently just isn’t sustainable. It’s the only way forward. Barry Fry? John Rudge?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 11:17:43 GMT
Bet 365 are pretty savvy at this kind of thing, maybe there’s someone there we could ask for some advice??? John Coates is the joint-CEO of Bet365 and they seem to perform quite well. I think with respect you are missing the point Deliah Smith , majority shareholder of Norwich FC ( with her husband), knows a lot about making millions from TV deals and book deals , not to mention how to make a lemon meringue But she is more than aware that both herself and her husband , no jack about football , which is why Norwich have Stuart Webber as sporting director ( effectively director of football ) and Daniel farke as team manager The cost to Denise of not taking this route and letting John coates play with his toy train set is staggering We all know the staggering cost of letting JC play with his train set The article below highlights the difference of doing it the Norwich way norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2020/10/13/daniel-farke-and-stuart-webber-under-pressure-at-norwich/
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