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Post by ravey123 on Apr 10, 2021 17:00:02 GMT
I'd give MON until Christmas, if we aren't in the top six by then he should go! He should not be our manager for the start of next season - next season will be no different to the last 4 months. He is totally inflexible/stubborn and will not change The only chance he has of being in the top half by Christmas is if Campbell hits the ground running from day 1 and I just cant see Campbell being 100% fit until October. By then we will already be in the bottom 3 This manager will get Stoke relegated next season unless he changes his outlook or has a massive slice of good fortune with a couple of players
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 10, 2021 17:00:27 GMT
I try to put things into perspective. We have some shit he has inherited that he can't shift and even late last season there were still the odd calamity, Leeds and Wigan away notably, but he always got a reaction and won the next game and at least looked like we had a plan. Today was as bad as it gets for me. No reaction to Monday, players still switching off and making the same mistakes, an alarming lack of desire( with 7 of his own signings starting ) and the usual piss taking Vokes substitution. I'm far from wanting him gone ( yet ) but genuinely wouldn't shed a tear if he did. And this is from someone who couldn't praise him enough for the job he did last season. I’m of a similar mind. As a person he’s just what we need to lead the club as a tactician he’s a million miles off as he’s not brave enough in his selections and tactics. That said with the injuries we’ve had this season there’s a good few managers who would have achieved far less than mid table. He has been really unlucky to lose our talisman striker and many other decent players that would have improved us. I just think the manager is a small part of the problem. Scholes John Coates Nathan Jones Gary Rowett Mark Hughes are all far more responsible for the mess we’re in and why we have no money to invest . We could hire Bielsa and we’d still be a poor side because we don’t have the parts we need to make a good side. To many has beens and never beens. 3 managers have invested best part of £70million to get us out of this league. How come it's Mark Hughes's fault? The club is run by footballing amateurs. Always has been. Winning one cup in 160 years tells you that.
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Post by milky on Apr 10, 2021 17:02:54 GMT
I try to put things into perspective. We have some shit he has inherited that he can't shift and even late last season there were still the odd calamity, Leeds and Wigan away notably, but he always got a reaction and won the next game and at least looked like we had a plan. Today was as bad as it gets for me. No reaction to Monday, players still switching off and making the same mistakes, an alarming lack of desire( with 7 of his own signings starting ) and the usual piss taking Vokes substitution. I'm far from wanting him gone ( yet ) but genuinely wouldn't shed a tear if he did. And this is from someone who couldn't praise him enough for the job he did last season. I’m of a similar mind. As a person he’s just what we need to lead the club as a tactician he’s a million miles off as he’s not brave enough in his selections and tactics. That said with the injuries we’ve had this season there’s a good few managers who would have achieved far less than mid table. He has been really unlucky to lose our talisman striker and many other decent players that would have improved us. I just think the manager is a small part of the problem. Scholes John Coates Nathan Jones Gary Rowett Mark Hughes are all far more responsible for the mess we’re in and why we have no money to invest . We could hire Bielsa and we’d still be a poor side because we don’t have the parts we need to make a good side. To many has beens and never beens. All true, I just don't think he is helping himself at all though and the Vokes thing is just starting to come across as totally stubborn piss taking. I will give him next season but assuming Campbell, Collins and Doughty will be available and with the likely return of fans to the ground he really has to change his mindset. There will be no hiding place.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 10, 2021 17:05:34 GMT
I'd give MON until Christmas, if we aren't in the top six by then he should go! He should not be our manager for the start of next season - next season will be no different to the last 4 months. He is totally inflexible/stubborn and will not change The only chance he has of being in the top half by Christmas is if Campbell hits the ground running from day 1 and I just cant see Campbell being 100% fit until October. By then we will already be in the bottom 3 This manager will get Stoke relegated next season unless he changes his outlook or has a massive slice of good fortune with a couple of players What did he do last season which he hasn't done this season? Is Campbell the only difference?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 10, 2021 17:11:05 GMT
Agree he needs to go. But they won't sack him because they can't afford to, or more worrying, they think he is doing a good job.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 10, 2021 17:12:56 GMT
Agree he needs to go. But they won't sack him because they can't afford to, or more worrying, they think he is doing a good job. They can afford to do anything they want. Who do you want in?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 10, 2021 17:14:09 GMT
There is nothing else this manager can do. It's madness to consider dismissing him.
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Post by march4 on Apr 10, 2021 17:15:11 GMT
There is nothing else this manager can do. It's madness to consider dismissing him. Something has to change though, mate. Is Scholes the problem?
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Post by loosestools on Apr 10, 2021 17:16:44 GMT
Agree he needs to go. But they won't sack him because they can't afford to, or more worrying, they think he is doing a good job. They can afford to do anything they want. Who do you want in? Darren Moore?
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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 10, 2021 17:16:51 GMT
Agree he needs to go. But they won't sack him because they can't afford to, or more worrying, they think he is doing a good job. They can afford to do anything they want. Who do you want in? Stan Ternent. Dynamic manager with his finger on the pulse of the game and with bags of fresh ideas. Failing that, Pulis.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 10, 2021 17:17:34 GMT
We are looking increasingly more and more like a stale Rowett team I'm afraid!
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Apr 10, 2021 17:17:35 GMT
Agree he needs to go. But they won't sack him because they can't afford to, or more worrying, they think he is doing a good job. They the board & the family will think progress has been made by not being in a fight for survival season ticket sales if & when it comes along will tell a completely different story.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 17:17:49 GMT
I try to put things into perspective. We have some shit he has inherited that he can't shift and even late last season there were still the odd calamity, Leeds and Wigan away notably, but he always got a reaction and won the next game and at least looked like we had a plan. Today was as bad as it gets for me. No reaction to Monday, players still switching off and making the same mistakes, an alarming lack of desire( with 7 of his own signings starting ) and the usual piss taking Vokes substitution. I'm far from wanting him gone ( yet ) but genuinely wouldn't shed a tear if he did. I would - in fact I have an annoying tear in my eye right now, but that may be down to hay fever. Despite my incessant criticism of him I think he's the right man in the job for us. The job for us is not to be in a promotion space this season and probably not next season, which MON has pointed out many times, but somehow many still thought would happen. The job is to clear up the almighty waste of space that is in ST4 right now. It's a very, very unthankful job. But if we see it through the right way we could have a nearly empty palette to draw the now future, but then present on. We have to hope that along the way MON will grow as a manager and will grow a team as he develops. I think his heart is in the right place. He prefers a tactical system which could be beautiful if he had the players to play in it, but he doesn't have them among the players as he selects. How many times have we not seen players do the exact opposite out of habit than what he said before game we would do? He does have players who can do what he believes in, but the clown doesn't play in his own circus (I hate to point it out but it's just figurative speech not an attack on him), and so he refuses constantly to play young players who are capable of playing that way. He may be right in saying that a game like today is not a game to start Norton and Coates, but can he explain why his band of losers are good to play?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 10, 2021 17:20:30 GMT
Agree he needs to go. But they won't sack him because they can't afford to, or more worrying, they think he is doing a good job. They can afford to do anything they want. Who do you want in? I don't like him, but I would go for Howe.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 10, 2021 17:22:13 GMT
I said the other week. Give him until Christmas, he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand with injuries, having said that his tactics and bizarre selections/substitutions suggest he’s having a baptism of fire and is struggling with the day to day of championship management. Anyway Christmas it is for me.
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Post by march4 on Apr 10, 2021 17:22:39 GMT
They can afford to do anything they want. Who do you want in? I don't like him, but I would go for Howe. It needs to be someone who knows players, can organise a club and will have the instant respect of the squad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 17:24:54 GMT
I don't think that I've said that I think he thinks they aren't good enough. You might have misread that. He just prefers older men. I think that he thinks they are good but I think that he thinks he's scared of using them in case they make mistakes which I think that he thinks will come back to him because I think that he thinks that I - and you and everybody else and his dog - will be annoyed. Did I make myself clear? Can you just clear it up a bit, what do you think he thinks? He picks the best team that what he thinks. For what everybody else thinks read all the threads on here.,,
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 10, 2021 17:25:17 GMT
I don't like him, but I would go for Howe. It needs to be someone who knows players, can organise a club and will have the instant respect of the squad. Anyone in mind Tone, I mean march?
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Apr 10, 2021 17:26:59 GMT
The bloke at Burton albion is doing a cracking job got to be worth a look.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 10, 2021 17:27:19 GMT
There's no point getting a manager in if you don't give him three years to impose his vision. The fact is that this season and next are writeoffs where we should plan to avoid relegation until we can clear out all of Rowett's £50,000,000 squad of players whose contracts expire in 2022. That's just reality. We bet the lot on Rowett and blew it. Our one hope was unearthing a Ricardo Fuller miracle type from the academy and he's now out until at least the new season.
Once we no longer have a squad of lower end Second Division players on First Division wages, we can look at building a new team more sensibly.
There's a club down the road who sack their manager once per season after he saves them from relegation but then fails to win the league. It's not working out too well for them in the Fourth Division.
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Post by march4 on Apr 10, 2021 17:28:07 GMT
It needs to be someone who knows players, can organise a club and will have the instant respect of the squad. Anyone in mind Tone, I mean march? If we leave TP to one side - he should have been appointed when Hughes was sacked, but now is probably too late, then managers like Warnock know what they are doing in this division. We can’t keep appointing managers with potential, we need someone who knows what they are doing straight away.
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Post by ravey123 on Apr 10, 2021 17:29:42 GMT
I try to put things into perspective. We have some shit he has inherited that he can't shift and even late last season there were still the odd calamity, Leeds and Wigan away notably, but he always got a reaction and won the next game and at least looked like we had a plan. Today was as bad as it gets for me. No reaction to Monday, players still switching off and making the same mistakes, an alarming lack of desire( with 7 of his own signings starting ) and the usual piss taking Vokes substitution. I'm far from wanting him gone ( yet ) but genuinely wouldn't shed a tear if he did. I would - in fact I have an annoying tear in my eye right now, but that may be down to hay fever. Despite my incessant criticism of him I think he's the right man in the job for us. The job for us is not to be in a promotion space this season and probably not next season, which MON has pointed out many times, but somehow many still thought would happen. The job is to clear up the almighty waste of space that is in ST4 right now. It's a very, very unthankful job. But if we see it through the right way we could have a nearly empty palette to draw the now future, but then present on. We have to hope that along the way MON will grow as a manager and will grow a team as he develops. I think his heart is in the right place. He prefers a tactical system which could be beautiful if he had the players to play in it, but he doesn't have them among the players as he selects. How many times have we not seen players do the exact opposite out of habit than what he said before game we would do? He does have players who can do what he believes in, but the clown doesn't play in his own circus (I hate to point it out but it's just figurative speech not an attack on him), and so he refuses constantly to play young players who are capable of playing that way. He may be right in saying that a game like today is not a game to start Norton and Coates, but can he explain why his band of losers are good to play? While a lot of what you say makes sense he has the perfect opportunity this last 5 games and has had for the last 3 or 4 games to give a number of the youngsters some serious game time to see if they are ready for next season's first team squad and as such save him a few headaches over the summer by knowing he already has decent options at the club. Continually deplying Vokes as a substitute is completley unforgivable. I've not looked it up but I would guess that Vokes has not made a single positive impact as a sub in the last 20 games so why is he going to start now. That not only reflects on Sam Vokes but also on a manager who seems to think that if you keep doing the same failing thing for some reason it will change - IT WON'T. MON has absolutley no tactical nouse and cannot affect or change the course of a game. He is transfixed into his small time club mentality of trying to scrape results. The only reason we were so swashbuckling at the end of last season was that we had nothing to lose We can't go up and we can't go down now so we have nothing to lose so just bloody go for it man - you never know, we may actually be entertaining for a change.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 10, 2021 17:29:59 GMT
Anyone in mind Tone, I mean march? If we leave TP to one side - he should have been appointed when Hughes was sacked, but now is probably too late, then managers like Warnock know what they are doing in this division. We can’t keep appointing managers with potential, we need someone who knows what they are doing straight away. Boro sit 2 points above us. Warnock, like Pulis, has had his day.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 10, 2021 17:31:04 GMT
The 21 players out of contract at the end of next season will still be here draining our resources next season whether MON is in charge or not. We’re as likely to go downwards as we are upwards unless the recruitment team stray pulling out a few gems. I don’t see anyone crazy enough to take on this job until then..... That is true re the drain, but MON being here means we'll also waste the players that aren't a drain and can actually contribute. I still think there'd be a few that would see it as a decent chance (true or not), some good youngsters, some experienced pros etc, and if this ffp shit we're currently suffering from can eventually be escaped we have quite a bit of potential given we have the money but currently can't spend it.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 10, 2021 17:31:54 GMT
The bloke at Burton albion is doing a cracking job got to be worth a look. He sure is. Ask QPR and Northampton fans how he did as manager at their clubs.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 17:32:41 GMT
I’m of a similar mind. As a person he’s just what we need to lead the club as a tactician he’s a million miles off as he’s not brave enough in his selections and tactics. That said with the injuries we’ve had this season there’s a good few managers who would have achieved far less than mid table. He has been really unlucky to lose our talisman striker and many other decent players that would have improved us. I just think the manager is a small part of the problem. Scholes John Coates Nathan Jones Gary Rowett Mark Hughes are all far more responsible for the mess we’re in and why we have no money to invest . We could hire Bielsa and we’d still be a poor side because we don’t have the parts we need to make a good side. To many has beens and never beens. All true, I just don't think he is helping himself at all though and the Vokes thing is just starting to come across as totally stubborn piss taking. I will give him next season but assuming Campbell, Collins and Doughty will be available and with the likely return of fans to the ground he really has to change his mindset. There will be no hiding place. It's bad enough that our whole season next year allegedly depends on whether Campbell and Collins get fit. Now we are also placing our eggs in the basket on a player than hasn't played a single second of football for us. It doesn't depend on those at all. It depends on whether or not MON can make a strong cohesive team out of the many different individuals, some of whom don't want to play for us. He hasn't really succeeded so far, but it was never going to be easy and done with. Give him more time. Not because he necessarily deserves it, but because SCFC do.
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Post by chad on Apr 10, 2021 17:35:39 GMT
If Luton win their game in hand they will go above us. That is how shit we are!! And that would be Rowett and Nathan laughing their bollocks off
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 10, 2021 17:35:45 GMT
The 21 players out of contract at the end of next season will still be here draining our resources next season whether MON is in charge or not. We’re as likely to go downwards as we are upwards unless the recruitment team stray pulling out a few gems. I don’t see anyone crazy enough to take on this job until then..... That is true re the drain, but MON being here means we'll also waste the players that aren't a drain and can actually contribute. I still think there'd be a few that would see it as a decent chance (true or not), some good youngsters, some experienced pros etc, and if this ffp shit we're currently suffering from can eventually be escaped we have quite a bit of potential given we have the money but currently can't spend it. If FFP is scrapped then that's a game changer, until then I see no one willing or able to step in under our current hierarchy. Pearson, Cook and McCarthy were the main people mentioned earlier in the season, all have massive jobs on their hands and in 12-18 months time their clubs may be no better off than they are now. If the club want to be radical and appoint a Director of Football to oversee everything and employ a coach rather than an old school manager then again that changes the goalposts, but as much as the Coates family have been brilliant for us second time round there's no evidence to suggest a radical overhaul will ever happen....
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Post by chad on Apr 10, 2021 17:37:45 GMT
They can afford to do anything they want. Who do you want in? I don't like him, but I would go for Howe. I think he’ll have far better offers on the table than we can give him
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2021 17:38:03 GMT
There is nothing else this manager can do. It's madness to consider dismissing him. You kidding? (Re nothing else he could do) We have regressed from last season under him. Why is he playing a back 3? There’s no need for it, it’s pathetically negative. Why does he use Vokes? He doesn’t have to. Why did he shit himself when Campbell got injured? This season has been a disaster from him. He looks naive, negative and massively out of his depth.
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