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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 22, 2021 16:04:41 GMT
If we forget the ones out on loan for a second, who are all basically dead to MON, and he'll be trying to loan out or let go for small fees one final time (and suppose there is more scope for that as they enter their final year) Davies Gunn (loan) Smith Batth Chester BMILindsayWimmerTymon WoodsMikel Allen Clucas Thompson NdiayePowell McClean InceFletcher Vokes GregoryDo we think we'll try and extend any of their contracts except Powell ? Davies and Thompson maybe.... (and it seems unrealistic to think he won't offer something to Allen even though he'll be 32 when his deal expires?) And, if not, how are we going to handle their exits? Keep them all around the squad then wave them off come June '22? Offer the ones we want to keep something before this summer? Next Christmas? Keep them hanging until just before their deals expire? There doesn't seem a massive chance of getting rid of many of them this summer. (and then we've got Bauer, Afobe and Etebo 'til 2023  ) |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 22, 2021 16:18:04 GMT
If we forget the ones out on loan for a second, who are all basically dead to MON, and he'll be trying to loan out or let go for small fees one final time (and suppose there is more scope for that as they enter their final year) Davies Gunn (loan) Smith Batth Chester BMILindsayWimmerTymon WoodsMikel Allen Clucas Thompson NdiayePowell McClean InceFletcher Vokes GregoryDo we think we'll try and extend any of their contracts except Powell ? Davies and Thompson maybe.... (and it seems unrealistic to think he won't offer something to Allen even though he'll be 32 when his deal expires?) And, if not, how are we going to handle their exits? Keep them all around the squad then wave them off come June '22? Offer the ones we want to keep something before this summer? Next Christmas? Keep them hanging until just before their deals expire? There doesn't seem a massive chance of getting rid of many of them this summer. (and then we've got Bauer, Afobe and Etebo 'til 2023 ) And the man who negotiated all these contracts that have crippled the club will probably get another pay rise. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 22, 2021 16:21:10 GMT
Not arsed about any of them bar Powell.
Some good squad players and I'd imagine some will get deals but all easily replaceable bar Powell.
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Post by damagedswan on Mar 22, 2021 16:29:56 GMT
Powell obviously. I agree with you that Allen will get offered another contract but I don't think he should be. I also think Thompson will be although I'm not a particularly big fan. Smith might do as well. I dunno.
Tymon still has time to kick on and make himself a valuable part of the squad between now and next summer. That said, I'd consider re-signing him if even if he's still around the current level, as long he's reasonably cheap. Even at 22 there's room to grow, he's already part of the squad. He's had decent games in a few positions (the problem is he's had a fair few some shockers there too of course).
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Post by damagedswan on Mar 22, 2021 16:30:42 GMT
Not arsed about any of them bar Powell. Some good squad players and I'd imagine some will get deals but all easily replaceable bar Powell. I agree they're all easily replaceable individually but I probably wouldn't want to have to replace all of them at the same time... |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 22, 2021 16:46:41 GMT
Not arsed about any of them bar Powell. Some good squad players and I'd imagine some will get deals but all easily replaceable bar Powell. I agree they're all easily replaceable individually but I probably wouldn't want to have to replace all of them at the same time... I'd be over the moon if I was the manager and was faced with that  I think the plan will be to try and get some money if we can this next window for anyone that we can get it for from that list tbh. And how many actually need replacing? One of Gunn/Davies Smith, Batth and Chester. Mikel, Allen, Clucas and maybe Thompson but if we lost Cousins and sign a replacement there, 4 front line CM's is enough imo. Powell (hope he stays) Fletcher So that's 9 which is a lot but hopefully by next season anyway only Gunn/Davies and Powell will be regulars in the starting XI. Fletcher in and out. The rest used sparingly/sold. |
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 22, 2021 16:47:51 GMT
My favourite Elvis Costello track
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 22, 2021 16:51:18 GMT
I'd be doing all I could to move on Batth, Allen, Clucas, McClean & Vokes.
It wouldn't surprise me if there's roughly 150k a week in wages there on those 5 players. The money could be spent a hell of a lot better elsewhere, they're all past their best and are only going to get worse from here on in.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 22, 2021 17:05:31 GMT
I'd be doing all I could to move on Batth, Allen, Clucas, McClean & Vokes. It wouldn't surprise me if there's roughly 150k a week in wages there on those 5 players. The money could be spent a hell of a lot better elsewhere, they're all past their best and are only going to get worse from here on in. Agree - but probably easier said than done. I'd hope there was zero chance of any of that lot (bar probably Allen who he seems to love) even getting a sniff of a new deal, even Clucas But they'll all be on top Champ money and the wrong side of 30, so at what point it becomes viable for them to think about leaving in this market where money is scarce? Sadly probably not until their deals expire and they've squeezed everything they can out of us. |
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 22, 2021 17:24:47 GMT
It's grim reading, some are going to be nearly impossible to move on this summer. Heaven knows where he will find these top end of the pitch impact players in the bargain basement, especially if we continue to ignore the foreign market. None of the Bosmans available, shout big improvement to the starting 11.
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Post by skip on Mar 22, 2021 17:32:05 GMT
I thank people like FM for posting lists like these as I want to be able to read them but I don't like reading them.
I still cannot quite get my head the fact that Kevin Sodding Wimmer is actually technically a Stoke player who we pay money to.
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Post by kustokie on Mar 22, 2021 19:17:10 GMT
I thank people like FM for posting lists like these as I want to be able to read them but I don't like reading them. I still cannot quite get my head the fact that Kevin Sodding Wimmer is actually technically a Stoke player who we pay money to. I know. It’s like passing an overturned car on the side of the road and trying to resist the temptation to look. |
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Post by lordb on Mar 22, 2021 19:23:46 GMT
My favourite Elvis Costello track Hopefully they aren't here to stay? |
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Post by leicspotter on Mar 22, 2021 19:24:00 GMT
For those that believe replacing our "duds" will be easy: 1. Would these better players want to sign for us? 2. Are they available? 3. Are they affordable? This is EFL football, not Championship Manager  |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Mar 22, 2021 19:32:54 GMT
If we forget the ones out on loan for a second, who are all basically dead to MON, and he'll be trying to loan out or let go for small fees one final time (and suppose there is more scope for that as they enter their final year) Davies Gunn (loan) Smith Batth Chester BMILindsayWimmerTymon WoodsMikel Allen Clucas Thompson NdiayePowell McClean InceFletcher Vokes GregoryDo we think we'll try and extend any of their contracts except Powell ? Davies and Thompson maybe.... (and it seems unrealistic to think he won't offer something to Allen even though he'll be 32 when his deal expires?) And, if not, how are we going to handle their exits? Keep them all around the squad then wave them off come June '22? Offer the ones we want to keep something before this summer? Next Christmas? Keep them hanging until just before their deals expire? There doesn't seem a massive chance of getting rid of many of them this summer. (and then we've got Bauer, Afobe and Etebo 'til 2023 ) I think the dynamic might be different this summer. Whatever happens we have to pay the wages and take the transfer write off in next season’s accounts. Suddenly players wil be looking at what they do next as the gravy train ends. If a club is willing to offer a 2 to 3 year deal it might be possible to shift them and save some of next season’s wages |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 22, 2021 19:36:04 GMT
2022 is the reset switch then.
Everyone there Can go apart from Powell.
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Post by stokeyank on Mar 22, 2021 19:42:26 GMT
2022 is the reset switch then. Everyone there Can go apart from Powell. Maybe Davies and Thompson if they are on a reasonable wage, useful squad players to have as backup. Aside from that though I fully agree. |
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Post by scfcno1fan on Mar 22, 2021 20:17:47 GMT
Davies stays surely?
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Post by ashleyscfc on Mar 22, 2021 23:42:25 GMT
If we forget the ones out on loan for a second, who are all basically dead to MON, and he'll be trying to loan out or let go for small fees one final time (and suppose there is more scope for that as they enter their final year) Davies Gunn (loan) Smith Batth Chester BMILindsayWimmerTymon WoodsMikel Allen Clucas Thompson NdiayePowell McClean InceFletcher Vokes GregoryDo we think we'll try and extend any of their contracts except Powell ? Davies and Thompson maybe.... (and it seems unrealistic to think he won't offer something to Allen even though he'll be 32 when his deal expires?) And, if not, how are we going to handle their exits? Keep them all around the squad then wave them off come June '22? Offer the ones we want to keep something before this summer? Next Christmas? Keep them hanging until just before their deals expire? There doesn't seem a massive chance of getting rid of many of them this summer. (and then we've got Bauer, Afobe and Etebo 'til 2023 ) Keep Definite: Davies Powell Keep Maybe: Allen Clucas Smith |
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Post by theonlooker on Mar 23, 2021 6:36:25 GMT
Out of that list we will have to realistically replace 12 players since the others we don't really use. That is still a lot of players to replace when you consider our income will be 6M a year, of which has to service existing contracts at the time also. I don't understand the 'leaping with joy' attitude that many seem to have over it, as we will be swapping one problem for another.
It's actually quite a dangerous summer when you factor everything into the equation and we will need a fair few more of our youngsters to show their faces next season to help make the transition easier. One thing is for certain, we can ill afford too many loans next season and also ill afford many more mistakes in the market. It is arguably a much bigger summer this summer coming up for both incomings and outgoings to ease the pressure on the summer of 22'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 7:06:57 GMT
The scary thing is, even though, barring Powell, none are needed, there will be some getting contract extensions.
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Post by stokienorthants on Mar 23, 2021 7:34:22 GMT
My favourite Elvis Costello track I don’t want to go to Chelsea? |
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Post by Championship Potter on Mar 23, 2021 7:39:56 GMT
I think there’s hopefully a reasonable chance we could clear some of those with some form of pay off. In the summer of 22, most of those will be fairly undesirable free agents at 32ish, so may be better for them to try and get 2-3 year deals elsewhere now while they still have at least one good year left in the tank to entice clubs.
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Post by pmjh on Mar 23, 2021 8:19:26 GMT
With all those players out of contract and many having no realistic hope of a new one what concerns me is the effect on morale. Some players might play for a new contract, others might down tools and run down their contracts. Having seen the character of our players I worry that most are in the second group.
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Post by Gods on Mar 23, 2021 8:27:49 GMT
Trouble is we've been great at buying players in recent seasons, offer the selling club a crazy fee and the player a contract beyond his dreams and it's job done.
Selling contracted players you yourselves don't want on terms and conditions no one else will meet, well that's a whole different league of difficulty.
In fact as we have seen it can't be done, and it's killed us dead in the water.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 8:57:22 GMT
If we forget the ones out on loan for a second, who are all basically dead to MON, and he'll be trying to loan out or let go for small fees one final time (and suppose there is more scope for that as they enter their final year) (...) Do we think we'll try and extend any of their contracts except Powell ? It depends a lot on whether "WE" are the Stoke fans or MON... Assuming that by 2022 it will still be the manager who makes the decisions, any player that MON has signed and the he feels has rewarded him with what he wants from players will be offered an extension. That means definite extensions to Thompson, Chester, Fox, Fletcher, and Mikel (perhaps not more than a year for the last two, and also depending on whether they've stayed reasonably injureyfree in the previous season) . IF at all possible (for him, not me) Gunn will either see his loan renewed or he will be attempted to be bought. Players signed before MON but serving well under him like Davies, Tymon, Sorensen, Batth, Clucas, and Allen will also be considered for renewal, although if we have not renewed Allen by 2022 he could slip away on a Bosman (fine by me). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 9:14:00 GMT
Out of that list we will have to realistically replace 12 players since the others we don't really use. That is still a lot of players to replace when you consider our income will be 6M a year, of which has to service existing contracts at the time also. I don't understand the 'leaping with joy' attitude that many seem to have over it, as we will be swapping one problem for another. It's actually quite a dangerous summer when you factor everything into the equation and we will need a fair few more of our youngsters to show their faces next season to help make the transition easier. One thing is for certain, we can ill afford too many loans next season and also ill afford many more mistakes in the market. It is arguably a much bigger summer this summer coming up for both incomings and outgoings to ease the pressure on the summer of 22'. That could realistically happen, as we have even more than "a fair few" that have the ability to play at the new level. What could hold them back, however, is: 1) The supporters' eagerness to abuse young players still finding their feet 2) The managers' reluctance to play more than a set number of youngsters over the course of this and next season. Four would seem to be his limit. I know some will say he's been more eager than Tony Pulis to play kids, but the fact is that he's still holding back from playing more. Even in the last game, after praising Norton's six minutes vs Cardiff, he still left Norton on the bench vs Derby and sent on Vokes. Forrester still hasn't played despite being on the bench virtually all season. Coates, Sparrow, Macari and others still haven't been given minutes, all of which suggests that he's not really willing to stick by the kids. 3) The gap up proves larger than anticipated. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 23, 2021 10:32:37 GMT
For those that believe replacing our "duds" will be easy: 1. Would these better players want to sign for us? 2. Are they available? 3. Are they affordable? This is EFL football, not Championship Manager What does that actually mean? |
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 23, 2021 10:38:27 GMT
If Allen has a decent Euro's, I would expect his agent be pushing to get him a move and one big pay day. I could live with Mikel then staying and another dominant and strong CM coming in.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 23, 2021 10:52:25 GMT
Out of that list we will have to realistically replace 12 players since the others we don't really use. That is still a lot of players to replace when you consider our income will be 6M a year, of which has to service existing contracts at the time also. I don't understand the 'leaping with joy' attitude that many seem to have over it, as we will be swapping one problem for another. It's actually quite a dangerous summer when you factor everything into the equation and we will need a fair few more of our youngsters to show their faces next season to help make the transition easier. One thing is for certain, we can ill afford too many loans next season and also ill afford many more mistakes in the market. It is arguably a much bigger summer this summer coming up for both incomings and outgoings to ease the pressure on the summer of 22'. Isn't it what we've needed for a while though? We have a real chance here to do something and to change the way we play. Yes it will take some good recruitment and yes that will more than likely not happen but let a man dream. We have a chance to get some pace, power and ability into this side and to freshen it up. The whole club has been too stale for so long. |
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