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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 8, 2020 23:00:14 GMT
Yes I don’t disagree at all but it still took two dreadful bits of defending from Collins and Powell for them to win,ghen no way back with the team out there on the pitch Still immaterial if we score that penalty. Or just stick to what we were doing. We essentially swapped two players totally unnecessarily. Brown was being a pain in the arse centrally even if his touch was dogshit. We lost that and we obviously lost Campbell. Awful management cost us. He said Brown was spent and was injured
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2020 23:03:24 GMT
There were 20 minutes left and it robbed us of an outlet to ease the pressure on us. So ‘wrongly’ is the option of the two there. We’ll never know what the outcome would have been if he’d taken a different option though. That’s the difference when you’re a manager compared to a fan on an Internet forum I guess. One lives and dies by his decisions, the other tells him/herself it would have worked out better if the manager had done it their way...... Well yes. Even at the time though, it looked like a sub that would have the effect that it very much went on to have. As you say, he lives and dies by it. It’s right that he takes the praise when it pays off and it’s right that he takes some of the blame when it doesn’t?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2020 23:04:05 GMT
There were 20 minutes left and it robbed us of an outlet to ease the pressure on us. So ‘wrongly’ is the option of the two there. Robbed us of what outlet sorry? Brown was very clearly injured? So put another outlet on rather than a centre back?
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 8, 2020 23:05:47 GMT
Robbed us of what outlet sorry? Brown was very clearly injured? So put another outlet on rather than a centre back? Who? There’s no one left! Big Sammy Plank is literally our only standing forward?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 8, 2020 23:06:07 GMT
We’ll never know what the outcome would have been if he’d taken a different option though. That’s the difference when you’re a manager compared to a fan on an Internet forum I guess. One lives and dies by his decisions, the other tells him/herself it would have worked out better if the manager had done it their way...... Well yes. Even at the time though, it looked like a sub that would have the effect that it very much went on to have. As you say, he lives and dies by it. It’s right that he takes the praise when it pays off and it’s right that he takes some of the blame when it doesn’t? Absolutely, but I think MON is the type of manager who neither wants praise nor listens to criticism though. If Middlesbrough score instead of hitting the post on Saturday and go on to win the game, and Vokes tucked away the penalty we could have been having the same conversations over the last few days but in reverse. Such fine margins.....
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 8, 2020 23:07:35 GMT
Robbed us of what outlet sorry? Brown was very clearly injured? So put another outlet on rather than a centre back? The Manager has just said he needed another centre half to combat their physicality and height as a result of their subs and that Brown got injured when colliding with the advertising boards,also he was a spent force
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Dec 8, 2020 23:08:24 GMT
It was a difficult one I thought. Brown had taken a battering, and apparently its fine in this league to jump into opponents and injure them without any consequence. That’s 2 of our forwards that have been done in the last few games from this tactic.
The real glaring error was why Vokes was allowed the penalty. It should’ve been Powell without debate. I think Vokes’ lack of game time is why he’s looking largely hopeless. I don’t get the criticism of Powell, he gets battered every game.
For the winner, we had Shawcross and Chester back there, 2 experienced centre halves. Why have they stood there and left one of their centre halves completely unmarked?
Chester was suspect again and should’ve dealt with the situation and not conceded the corner. For me, we were too happy to concede set pieces tonight when we could have done more to keep the ball in. That said, we’d only conceded 2 from set plays all season.
It’s a long season and we need a cool head in the dugout to succeed. In MON we have that. Hopefully we’ll get a few back on Saturday, Ty Kai is okay, but the best I can see us doing this season is the play offs. When its wide open we keep choking on the 3 points!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2020 23:09:24 GMT
So put another outlet on rather than a centre back? Who? There’s no one left! Big Sammy Plank is literally our only standing forward? Vokes was already on at that point, so he’s your centre forward either way. Put Ince or Verlinden on, then you’ve at least got someone who can carry the ball forward on the break.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 8, 2020 23:10:13 GMT
Who? There’s no one left! Big Sammy Plank is literally our only standing forward? Vokes was already on at that point, so he’s your centre forward either way. Put Ince or Verlinden on, then you’ve at least got someone who can carry the ball forward on the break. Blimey.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2020 23:10:37 GMT
So put another outlet on rather than a centre back? The Manager has just said he needed another centre half to combat their physicality and height as a result of their subs and that Brown got injured when colliding with the advertising boards,also he was a spent force No issue with taking Brown off. Don’t agree that we needed another centre half on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 8, 2020 23:10:57 GMT
Still immaterial if we score that penalty. Or just stick to what we were doing. We essentially swapped two players totally unnecessarily. Brown was being a pain in the arse centrally even if his touch was dogshit. We lost that and we obviously lost Campbell. Awful management cost us. He said Brown was spent and was injured Fine. Why bring on Shawcross? He shat his pants like he does. He has to stop it. He and we are better than that.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 8, 2020 23:12:32 GMT
He said Brown was spent and was injured Fine. Why bring on Shawcross? He shat his pants like he does. He has to stop it. He and we are better than that. Because he wanted an extra centre half on with Glatzel’s height🤔
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2020 23:14:14 GMT
Well yes. Even at the time though, it looked like a sub that would have the effect that it very much went on to have. As you say, he lives and dies by it. It’s right that he takes the praise when it pays off and it’s right that he takes some of the blame when it doesn’t? Absolutely, but I think MON is the type of manager who neither wants praise nor listens to criticism though. If Middlesbrough score instead of hitting the post on Saturday and go on to win the game, and Vokes tucked away the penalty we could have been having the same conversations over the last few days but in reverse. Such fine margins..... I’m sure that’s true of a lot of managers, but if we can’t praise and criticise on here then there’s not a lot of point is there? It should be fine on here among ourselves to do both of those things when they’re warranted? I thought the difference between Saturday and today was that we looked more dangerous on Saturday. We caused them more genuine problems.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 8, 2020 23:14:36 GMT
He said Brown was spent and was injured Fine. Why bring on Shawcross? He shat his pants like he does. He has to stop it. He and we are better than that. We were done. Spent. We could all see it. Too many games and too many injuries. The squad can’t cope and we are stretched to snapping point. Harsh to say he’s shit his pants.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 8, 2020 23:17:36 GMT
Fine. Why bring on Shawcross? He shat his pants like he does. He has to stop it. He and we are better than that. We were done. Spent. We could all see it. Too many games and too many injuries. The squad can’t cope and we are stretched to snapping point. Harsh to say he’s shit his pants. We weren’t. We needed an out ball. He fucked it. It happens.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 8, 2020 23:18:05 GMT
Absolutely, but I think MON is the type of manager who neither wants praise nor listens to criticism though. If Middlesbrough score instead of hitting the post on Saturday and go on to win the game, and Vokes tucked away the penalty we could have been having the same conversations over the last few days but in reverse. Such fine margins..... I’m sure that’s true of a lot of managers, but if we can’t praise and criticise on here then there’s not a lot of point is there? It should be fine on here among ourselves to do both of those things when they’re warranted? I thought the difference between Saturday and today was that we looked more dangerous on Saturday. We caused them more genuine problems. We can praise and criticise of course it’s what it’s all about, just remember that the alternative suggestions wouldn’t have guaranteed a different result. Internet forums are all about opinion, but winning matches is dead easy from behind a screen let’s be fair......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 8, 2020 23:18:56 GMT
Fine. Why bring on Shawcross? He shat his pants like he does. He has to stop it. He and we are better than that. Because he wanted an extra centre half on with Glatzel’s height🤔 Negative pish. Another sub that no one else could see nor understand. He really needs to fuck the underdog stuff off because we are so much better than that.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 8, 2020 23:20:17 GMT
We were done. Spent. We could all see it. Too many games and too many injuries. The squad can’t cope and we are stretched to snapping point. Harsh to say he’s shit his pants. We weren’t. We needed an out ball. He fucked it. It happens. I think these last two games have killed us. I’m not confident now at all with these next three matches. The starting line up at Derby could be hilariously bad.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2020 23:22:11 GMT
I’m sure that’s true of a lot of managers, but if we can’t praise and criticise on here then there’s not a lot of point is there? It should be fine on here among ourselves to do both of those things when they’re warranted? I thought the difference between Saturday and today was that we looked more dangerous on Saturday. We caused them more genuine problems. We can praise and criticise of course it’s what it’s all about, just remember that the alternative suggestions wouldn’t have guaranteed a different result. Internet forums are all about opinion, but winning matches is dead easy from behind a screen let’s be fair...... To be fair though you could say that about Nathan Jones, Alan Ball, any manager of any professional team ever. I’m not quite sure what the point is, unless we’re just deciding that any criticism of the manager must now be caveated with we are but humble fans behind our screen, what do we know’?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 8, 2020 23:23:53 GMT
We weren’t. We needed an out ball. He fucked it. It happens. I think these last two games have killed us. I’m not confident now at all with these next three matches. The starting line up at Derby could be hilariously bad. Tonight was about the easiest we’ve looked all season imo and we should have beat Boro 3/4 nil. All with a skeleton staff. I’m the opposite, it should be really encouraging. That’s why I’m so furious with the manager tonight tbh.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 8, 2020 23:25:20 GMT
I think these last two games have killed us. I’m not confident now at all with these next three matches. The starting line up at Derby could be hilariously bad. Tonight was about the easiest we’ve looked all season imo and we should have beat Boro 3/4 nil. All with a skeleton staff. I’m the opposite, it should be really encouraging. That’s why I’m so furious with the manager tonight tbh. Let’s see how we are after the New Years game v Bournemouth. If we are still top 6 by then I’ll be astonished.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 8, 2020 23:32:59 GMT
Because he wanted an extra centre half on with Glatzel’s height🤔 Negative pish. Another sub that no one else could see nor understand. He really needs to fuck the underdog stuff off because we are so much better than that. You asked for an explanation and he offered you one. You don’t have to agree with it......
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 8, 2020 23:33:07 GMT
Tonight was about the easiest we’ve looked all season imo and we should have beat Boro 3/4 nil. All with a skeleton staff. I’m the opposite, it should be really encouraging. That’s why I’m so furious with the manager tonight tbh. Let’s see how we are after the New Years game v Bournemouth. If we are still top 6 by then I’ll be astonished. I’d take top ten after Bournemouth some players back and two loans for a late run into the play offs as the form team
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 8, 2020 23:43:08 GMT
Tonight was about the easiest we’ve looked all season imo and we should have beat Boro 3/4 nil. All with a skeleton staff. I’m the opposite, it should be really encouraging. That’s why I’m so furious with the manager tonight tbh. Let’s see how we are after the New Years game v Bournemouth. If we are still top 6 by then I’ll be astonished. Depends on Campbell doesn’t it really. And even then if Fletcher is back then we still should be up there. We’ve dominated two of the supposed better sides with a central midfield of Cousins and Tymon.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 8, 2020 23:45:18 GMT
We can praise and criticise of course it’s what it’s all about, just remember that the alternative suggestions wouldn’t have guaranteed a different result. Internet forums are all about opinion, but winning matches is dead easy from behind a screen let’s be fair...... To be fair though you could say that about Nathan Jones, Alan Ball, any manager of any professional team ever. I’m not quite sure what the point is, unless we’re just deciding that any criticism of the manager must now be caveated with we are but humble fans behind our screen, what do we know’? Well his post match interview gives a clear indication of his thought process whether people choose to agree with it or not. He gets paid to make judgement calls and we can speculate until the cows come home. It’s what makes football so great, everyone has an opinion......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 9, 2020 7:29:32 GMT
To be fair though you could say that about Nathan Jones, Alan Ball, any manager of any professional team ever. I’m not quite sure what the point is, unless we’re just deciding that any criticism of the manager must now be caveated with we are but humble fans behind our screen, what do we know’? Well his post match interview gives a clear indication of his thought process whether people choose to agree with it or not. He gets paid to make judgement calls and we can speculate until the cows come home. It’s what makes football so great, everyone has an opinion...... Again though...that’s true of pretty much all managers?
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Post by scfcno1fan on Dec 9, 2020 7:45:44 GMT
I feel like if we get some injuries back then we should still have enough to challenge the top 6.
I just hope last night is not pivotal in terms of confidence and the injury to Campbell.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 9, 2020 8:00:51 GMT
Games come and go at an alarming rate and last night’s result was disapointing (especially as the opposition seemed as battle weary as we are) but the underlying impression I take from the performance is that until the missed penalty we genuinely looked like a team that knew what it was doing and was capable also of playing some decent football in the oppo’s half. Considering the injury tally I thought that that was impressive and shows the club is very much moving in the right direction.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 9, 2020 9:37:15 GMT
Well his post match interview gives a clear indication of his thought process whether people choose to agree with it or not. He gets paid to make judgement calls and we can speculate until the cows come home. It’s what makes football so great, everyone has an opinion...... Again though...that’s true of pretty much all managers? Not so in my opinion, some managers don't believe it's their job to explain their rationale to either the fans or the media......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 9, 2020 9:43:08 GMT
Again though...that’s true of pretty much all managers? Not so in my opinion, some managers don't believe it's their job to explain their rationale to either the fans or the media...... I think at one time or another, these days at least, most will give some kind of reasoning at some point. I accept your point that he had his reasons which he's outlined. My point is that it's ok to question that. There shouldn't have to be a compulsion to defend the manager at all costs after every game, not least one that dredges up existential 'what ifs'.
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