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Post by lee1982 on Dec 6, 2020 9:36:55 GMT
I’m starting to resent all the talk that has somehow crept into the mainstream media about systemic racism in the UK as an accepted fact. This country is one of - if not the most - accepting, tolerant and open nations in the world. Unfortunately anyone in the public eye saying so would get labelled as racist by lunatics on Twitter and this means there is no chance of a proper grown up discussion around this. I don’t need multimillionaire citizens of all races telling me how lucky I am to have ‘white privilege’ before every sporting event. I don’t feel the need to boo it when I’m allowed back in, but I think the media and government are going to be surprised by the number of people who do. Millwall player’s and the footballing pundits faux horror reminds me of all the actors crying when Ricky Gervais told them their political stances were ridiculous. Plenty of people also link the BLM movement to the vandalism of war memorials that took place earlier in the year as well. I’ve not heard one person who takes the knee take the time to distance themselves from the unsavory sides of people associated with BLM, but state they still feel the knee is needed because of a, b and c. If any of them took the time to do that then they might just come across as someone actually championing equal rights and tolerance rather than a puppet who doesn’t want to upset anyone and lose a sponsorship deal or two. Well said that man
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Post by hotterpotter on Dec 6, 2020 9:45:49 GMT
The trouble is if you boo something like this it's impossible for people to know what aspect of it you are booing. Is it because you're racist? You're just bored of it? You think football is the wrong place for it? You agree with the sentiment but would rather convey support in a different way? etc. etc.
I think it's the wrong way to express dissatisfaction over this sort of issue as it is so open to interpretation. Booing only works if it's obvious what you're booing.
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Post by walstoke on Dec 6, 2020 9:53:10 GMT
Well if that happens at the Bet365 l’ll glsdly hand my Season Ticket back. Crack on then. I bet the majority of football supporters are bloody sick of seeing this before every game. Some will admit it and be vocal on it, some will think it but won't dare admit it, but I bet the majority are sick of it. Does that make me and others racist? Does it fuck. Just fed up of the majority in this country not being racist, yet we're being bombarded with stuff in the last 6 months that makes it look like we all are! Just bugger it all off and if anyone does or says something that is racist, deal with them and drive it out like we were doing other than the odd idiot. All this is in danger of taking racism back decades. Well done! Well said, this reflects my thoughts exactly, but we're not allowed to say it apparently.
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Post by lee1982 on Dec 6, 2020 9:55:22 GMT
The trouble is if you boo something like this it's impossible for people to know what aspect of it you are booing. Is it because you're racist? You're just bored of it? You think football is the wrong place for it? You agree with the sentiment but would rather convey support in a different way? etc. etc. I think it's the wrong way to express dissatisfaction over this sort of issue as it is so open to interpretation. Booing only works if it's obvious what you're booing. I see where your coming from, as much the same can be said for how Aaron Ramsey got booed when he returned with Arsenal. People took the boo’s completely out of context without understanding the full story. I think one problem is that people feel they haven't been able to express their views with everything thats going on and it leads to a lot of pent up frustration. Booing may be the only they feel they can express their disapproval at current events.
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Post by nantwichstokie on Dec 6, 2020 9:57:36 GMT
The discussion here proves how divisive the whole movement is. Whilst I don’t doubt racism is still an issue that needs to be fucked off I’m convinced that BLM has done more harm than good. I feel that in the UK it’s raised an issue that is magnified 100 times worse than what it is. You’re not going to get rid of racism. You can’t affect how people think about things. It takes generations. We were on that path to changing peoples attitudes of how they see other people. But, as I said, this has become divisive and it needs fucking off. Thereafter it’s also politicised a sport we all love which is frankly a load of bollocks. We’re all one when we support Stoke.
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Post by foster on Dec 6, 2020 10:02:57 GMT
Don't agree with booing. Don't agree with BLM and making a mountain out of a molehill.
Fuck that irrelevant shite off and stick with kick it out and highlighting inequality in all forms.
Make a stand for something more important, like poverty in the UK.
Never liked Lineker either.
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Post by lee1982 on Dec 6, 2020 10:04:15 GMT
Would taking the knee be more powerful if it was only done once on a particular day? For example the opening day of the season or Cup final day? Personally i think doing it before every game takes away any sort of meaning. Take the two minutes silence we observe on or around Rememberance Day, its powerful it has meaning, whilst we must always remember those that served and fought for our freedom, would it be the same if we did it before every game?.
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 6, 2020 10:04:35 GMT
I’m starting to resent all the talk that has somehow crept into the mainstream media about systemic racism in the UK as an accepted fact. This country is one of - if not the most - accepting, tolerant and open nations in the world. Unfortunately anyone in the public eye saying so would get labelled as racist by lunatics on Twitter and this means there is no chance of a proper grown up discussion around this. I don’t need multimillionaire citizens of all races telling me how lucky I am to have ‘white privilege’ before every sporting event. I don’t feel the need to boo it when I’m allowed back in, but I think the media and government are going to be surprised by the number of people who do. Millwall player’s and the footballing pundits faux horror reminds me of all the actors crying when Ricky Gervais told them their political stances were ridiculous. Plenty of people also link the BLM movement to the vandalism of war memorials that took place earlier in the year as well. I’ve not heard one person who takes the knee take the time to distance themselves from the unsavory sides of people associated with BLM, but state they still feel the knee is needed because of a, b and c. If any of them took the time to do that then they might just come across as someone actually championing equal rights and tolerance rather than a puppet who doesn’t want to upset anyone and lose a sponsorship deal or two. That's pretty much how I feel about it. It just seems so performative now. How much is fear of losing sponsorship deals? How much is fear of the wrath of the media? How much is genuine concern about racism? I fully support McClean not wearing a poppy and understand his reasons why. It'd be hypocritical of me not to support players not taking the knee when they've given fair reasons. I'm with Les Ferdinand on this: "The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge," As to Millwall booing, imagine our surprise. Having lived in Bermondsey for 3 years I'm well aware of their knuckle draggers (although they are a small minority). The problem with something as polarising as BLM is that non-knuckle-draggers will be sucked in and often with understandable reasons (it's not that hard to come up with reasonable arguments against BLM given its basis in Critical Race Theory and 'defund the police' message). Booing the knee will end up becoming a 'thing' too. Where we need to have discussion, education and grown up conversations we'll have shouting, screaming and fighting.
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Post by neckender78 on Dec 6, 2020 10:11:07 GMT
I think the biggest issue is that we have a very small percentage of far right in the country like some of the Millwall fans and.a very small percentage of BLM radicals like Sasha who create division amongst the 99 percent of people that weren’t initially one way or the other but are becoming increasingly influenced by what the small percentage on social media say and feel that they need to take a stance hence a lot of the fallouts we get on here. The sad thing is that the large majority of the public share the common agreement that they don’t want racism and they want equality but that those on the right side politically don’t want to be dictated about how they should feel either and that if they don’t feel a certain way they’re depicted as scum. A lot of this has been created by mainstream media and the likes of the BBC who show a bias which does more damage than good because they just push people away from true equality because it feels like they’re trying to over compensate. Things need to change in respect to racism but not so the majority feel like they’re not being treated equally. I’m sure I’ll get hammered for this post but that will just back up my post re not having a voice as everyone should have before being cursed or being put in a box under a certain name. Crazy times. Nail on the head Cobham. The voice of sense
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Post by potterburt on Dec 6, 2020 10:13:19 GMT
I'll repeat what I said months ago when this first happened. It's literally 5 seconds before the game even kicks off, why get so angry about it? Keeping quiet really isn't that hard... But it obviously is getting harder to do. It's not just the 5 seconds that's getting on people's tits. People can dress the reasoning up all they want and try come across all goody goody. My annoyance is this all started by something thousands of miles away in another country. This country was going in the right direction other than the odd isolated pillock like at Chelsea I think it was. Players like sterling were doing a grand job as were the England team of making other countries look bad for it. Now we are bombarded by the main media channels and told we should all be good boys and girls when the majority of this country already were. The only ones that weren't were the ones you'll never change anyway no matter how many knees are taken. Now what they have created is 2000 Millwall fans booing a gesture that the media will make out to be 2000 racists. They are in danger of making a lot more people racist than before all this shit started in this country. So taking the knee has actually made 2000 fans boo....? So as an analogy - the reason a child is throwing a tantrum is because the parent has implemented measures to try to address and prevent tantrums from happening?
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 6, 2020 10:18:16 GMT
But it obviously is getting harder to do. It's not just the 5 seconds that's getting on people's tits. People can dress the reasoning up all they want and try come across all goody goody. My annoyance is this all started by something thousands of miles away in another country. This country was going in the right direction other than the odd isolated pillock like at Chelsea I think it was. Players like sterling were doing a grand job as were the England team of making other countries look bad for it. Now we are bombarded by the main media channels and told we should all be good boys and girls when the majority of this country already were. The only ones that weren't were the ones you'll never change anyway no matter how many knees are taken. Now what they have created is 2000 Millwall fans booing a gesture that the media will make out to be 2000 racists. They are in danger of making a lot more people racist than before all this shit started in this country. So taking the knee has actually made 2000 fans boo....? So as an analogy - the reason a child is throwing a tantrum is because the parent has implemented measures to try to address and prevent tantrums from happening? To continue the analogy, the measures the parent implemented were to don a jester's hat and do a funny dance. Unfortunately, it didn't stop the tantrums. Edit. And the older brother of the wailing kid is now wondering wtf the parent is doing and is questioning their methods.
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Post by lee1982 on Dec 6, 2020 10:22:03 GMT
But it obviously is getting harder to do. It's not just the 5 seconds that's getting on people's tits. People can dress the reasoning up all they want and try come across all goody goody. My annoyance is this all started by something thousands of miles away in another country. This country was going in the right direction other than the odd isolated pillock like at Chelsea I think it was. Players like sterling were doing a grand job as were the England team of making other countries look bad for it. Now we are bombarded by the main media channels and told we should all be good boys and girls when the majority of this country already were. The only ones that weren't were the ones you'll never change anyway no matter how many knees are taken. Now what they have created is 2000 Millwall fans booing a gesture that the media will make out to be 2000 racists. They are in danger of making a lot more people racist than before all this shit started in this country. So taking the knee has actually made 2000 fans boo....? So as an analogy - the reason a child is throwing a tantrum is because the parent has implemented measures to try to address and prevent tantrums from happening? I would say its more 2000 fans have seen an opportunity to get their voices heard, and lets be honest it wouldnt have been 2000 not everyone would have been booing, thats just more media hype.
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Post by rambo61 on Dec 6, 2020 10:22:10 GMT
Personally I think it needs to be knocked on the head. The b.l.m marches were marred by rioting and looting. The millwall fans were probably booing because their shops and buissinesses were burnt and robbed. When they turned b.l.m into a political issue it stopped being about racism.Football is all about being with mates and family whatever colour,nationality or gender. If nothing else,the shit we've gone through should show us this!!!
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Post by malteser68 on Dec 6, 2020 10:25:38 GMT
A few clubs have already decided to end this tiresome, irrelevant, empty gesture crap. The rest will follow when proper, full crowds are allowed back. For example, today. Fully in agreement with the Millwall fans on this one
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Post by lee1982 on Dec 6, 2020 10:28:41 GMT
It seems quite clear from this thread that some people just can not understand that others may have a different opinion from themselves. Ive seen one poster try to walk away from a discussion saying “ lets just agree to disagree “ which there is absolutely nothing wrong with, sometimes thats just the way things are. They were then almost ridiculed for not arguing their point more, talk about damed if you do damed if you don’t!
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 6, 2020 10:31:44 GMT
It should be stopped now. It originally served its purpose of making a stand against US police thinking the murder of a black person was an acceptable way of dealing with those they allege have broken a law. Kneeling on someone's neck is a barbaric way of restraining anyone. Taking the knee then took on a much wider meaning about racial inequalities that do exist.
Having said that, because its gone on so long and the original meaning has been lost on many, we've now got to a situation where it can create an 8 page thread on The Oatie showing how divisive this subject can be, which defeats the object of most accepting that black lives do matter as much as those of a different colour.
OS.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 6, 2020 10:43:06 GMT
Fuck me I've heard it all now. We should stop young lads from all backgrounds showing solidarity with each other because it upsets some Isle of Dogs Tommy Robinson wankers
Keep taking the knee, let the racists (because that's exactly what they are) boo it and we all know which side we're on.
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Post by worcsstokie15 on Dec 6, 2020 10:49:54 GMT
Fuck me I've heard it all now. We should stop young lads from all backgrounds showing solidarity with each other because it upsets some Isle of Dogs Tommy Robinson wankers Keep taking the knee, let the racists (because that's exactly what they are) boo it and we all know which side we're on. If you feel the need to boo a 5 seconds, silent and peaceful protest, it is 100% a racist act. I suspect these morons are the same people who boo McClean for not wearing a poppy as well.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 6, 2020 10:50:00 GMT
Personally I think it needs to be knocked on the head. The b.l.m marches were marred by rioting and looting. The millwall fans were probably booing because their shops and buissinesses were burnt and robbed. When they turned b.l.m into a political issue it stopped being about racism.Football is all about being with mates and family whatever colour,nationality or gender. If nothing else,the shit we've gone through should show us this!!! When you watch Kazim Richards raising his fist in a black power type manner it stops becoming warranted, if a white player did a Nazi salute before every game there would be rightly an uproar and he would be banned for life.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 6, 2020 10:50:13 GMT
To be honest, even if you disagree with aspects of the BLM movement, to boo the 3 second gesture of taking it the knee is quite clear, you're just a pathetic little racist
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 6, 2020 10:51:09 GMT
Personally I think it needs to be knocked on the head. The b.l.m marches were marred by rioting and looting. The millwall fans were probably booing because their shops and buissinesses were burnt and robbed. When they turned b.l.m into a political issue it stopped being about racism.Football is all about being with mates and family whatever colour,nationality or gender. If nothing else,the shit we've gone through should show us this!!! When you watch Kazim Richards raising his fist in a black power type manner it stops becoming warranted, if a white player did a Nazi salute before every game there would be rightly an uproar and he would be banned for life. New depths of racist stupidity for you, even by your standards. You need to educate yourself
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 6, 2020 10:52:03 GMT
Personally I think it needs to be knocked on the head. The b.l.m marches were marred by rioting and looting. The millwall fans were probably booing because their shops and buissinesses were burnt and robbed. When they turned b.l.m into a political issue it stopped being about racism.Football is all about being with mates and family whatever colour,nationality or gender. If nothing else,the shit we've gone through should show us this!!! When you watch Kazim Richards raising his fist in a black power type manner it stops becoming warranted, if a white player did a Nazi salute before every game there would be rightly an uproar and he would be banned for life. You're saying what Richards does is akin to a Nazi salute? Jesus wept.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 6, 2020 10:53:26 GMT
When you watch Kazim Richards raising his fist in a black power type manner it stops becoming warranted, if a white player did a Nazi salute before every game there would be rightly an uproar and he would be banned for life. New depths of racist stupidity for you, even by your standards. You need to educate yourself Explain why that is racist ?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 6, 2020 10:57:08 GMT
When you watch Kazim Richards raising his fist in a black power type manner it stops becoming warranted, if a white player did a Nazi salute before every game there would be rightly an uproar and he would be banned for life. You're saying what Richards does is akin to a Nazi salute? Jesus wept. Here you go Mo.use The Black Power salute is known as an overtly political gesture, I thought this was about equality not politics
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Post by Cast no shadow on Dec 6, 2020 10:57:58 GMT
Fuck BLM.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 6, 2020 10:59:42 GMT
You're saying what Richards does is akin to a Nazi salute? Jesus wept. Here you go Mo.use The Black Power salute is known as an overtly political gesture, I thought this was about equality not politics Glasgow is right. You really do need to educate yourself.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 6, 2020 11:03:22 GMT
Here you go Mo.use The Black Power salute is known as an overtly political gesture, I thought this was about equality not politics Glasgow is right. You really do need to educate yourself. Is he really explain why what I posted is racist ? if not butt out drama queen there is no room for politics in football.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 6, 2020 11:04:37 GMT
I think it's fairly plain to see who's on who's side.
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Post by lee1982 on Dec 6, 2020 11:04:39 GMT
I rest my case!!! several posters suggesting you are racist if you boo. No point in arguing your case agree to disagree and move on, the jury has decided.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 6, 2020 11:13:00 GMT
I think it's fairly plain to see who's on who's side. Indeed it does I am not on about taking the knee however Black Power fist is a logo generally associated with black nationalism and sometimes socialism.
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