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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 14, 2020 19:48:52 GMT
Thanks for this. The brother and sister I taught run Bruntwood. The sad thing for me was that the money we had to invest ended up going to St Helens MBC. I went and spent about 30m quid of their money on land acquisitions in St Helens in the following 2 or 3 years when it could have been Stoke. My home town.
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Post by misterj on Dec 15, 2020 8:01:49 GMT
Depressing but kind of unsurprising
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Post by misterj on Dec 18, 2020 19:52:16 GMT
So I finally got the reply (from Stoke Central MP Jo Gideon) Without going into too much detail, she stated that as I was a resident of Newcastle-under-Lyme I needed to contact Aaron Bell MP. (This is in spite of me saying in my email to her that I grew up in Stoke central, I work there, I shop there etc) As if Aaron Bell (from a rival neighbouring town who compete with Hanley for shoppers) would be interested in helping Stoke Central to get their act together, I would have thought he’d be pleased at their demise! Anyway, I tried, and have passed on my thoughts to Stoke Council?
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Post by cerebralstokie on Dec 18, 2020 20:09:36 GMT
So I finally got the reply (from Stoke Central MP Jo Gideon) Without going into too much detail, she stated that as I was a resident of Newcastle-under-Lyme I needed to contact Aaron Bell MP. (This is in spite of me saying in my email to her that I grew up in Stoke central, I work there, I shop there etc) As if Aaron Bell (from a rival neighbouring town who compete with Hanley for shoppers) would be interested in helping Stoke Central to get their act together, I would have thought he’d be pleased at their demise! Anyway, I tried, and have passed on my thoughts to Stoke Council? Typical - Buck passing - dodging an awkward and direct question.
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Post by spiderpuss on Dec 18, 2020 21:51:03 GMT
So I finally got the reply (from Stoke Central MP Jo Gideon) Without going into too much detail, she stated that as I was a resident of Newcastle-under-Lyme I needed to contact Aaron Bell MP. (This is in spite of me saying in my email to her that I grew up in Stoke central, I work there, I shop there etc) As if Aaron Bell (from a rival neighbouring town who compete with Hanley for shoppers) would be interested in helping Stoke Central to get their act together, I would have thought he’d be pleased at their demise! Anyway, I tried, and have passed on my thoughts to Stoke Council? That's sad, why can't someone in the region announce their findings to that MP? Not very good that.
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Post by tuum on Dec 19, 2020 3:34:02 GMT
So I finally got the reply (from Stoke Central MP Jo Gideon) Without going into too much detail, she stated that as I was a resident of Newcastle-under-Lyme I needed to contact Aaron Bell MP. (This is in spite of me saying in my email to her that I grew up in Stoke central, I work there, I shop there etc) As if Aaron Bell (from a rival neighbouring town who compete with Hanley for shoppers) would be interested in helping Stoke Central to get their act together, I would have thought he’d be pleased at their demise! Anyway, I tried, and have passed on my thoughts to Stoke Council? That's sad, why can't someone in the region announce their findings to that MP? Not very good that. Mr.J can send his email to any Members who live in ST1 and they can send the same email to JoGideon. They can even add an introductory paragraph to explain that they are sending the letter because she failed to deal appropriately with the original letter on the basis that the person did not live in the immediate area despite the fact that his question was specifically about Hanley and the fact that he works and shops there. She can't ignore a dozen letters on the same subject from her constituents surely? However, I suspect the comments are right. This is a slope shoulders response because the question is too big of a problem for her to tackle. Maybe, if she took one small bite at a time we may see improvements. E.g. commit in year 1 to increase police presence by x%; year 2 commit to not accepting more 'refugees' into the area; Year 3 reduce business rates to encourage shops to open etc. JoGideon is a tory. She should be pressing the Govt to repay the faith that the SoT people showed in electing her. Otherwise, I suspect she will be a one term MP. I am sure that the council and Ms.Gideon could work together to put in place a 5yr plan to regenerate Hanley. At the moment, nothing seems to be working and no amount of investment in new build will succeed if you cannot clean the rest of the place up. I think the council is hoping that new build will encourage new people into the centre and thus 'dilute' the impact of the beggars and layabouts rather than working to rid the area of the undesirables in the first place. If you were a developer, would you invest millions of pounds of your own money (not Govt or City Council assisted) into Hanley? This is part of what she said in her statement to voters ahead of the election in 2019: I live locally and can see every day the investment we need to make Stoke-on-Trent a great city. For too long this has been a forgotten part of the country and yet it has offers great opportunities for investors – a low cost of living and housing and an adaptable, hardworking workforce. I will lobby Government for more investment to regenerate our derelict buildings and wasteland. We also need an improved local transport system and grants to help clean up our many city centre brownfield sites and High Streets. We need to value the individual identities of the towns that make up our city, and also create an overall vision.As you can see she is committed to cleaning up the high street.
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Post by zerps on Dec 19, 2020 5:56:56 GMT
I remember back in 2008/9 I was working for a large Manchester based development company and was tasked with assessing land opportunities for development specifically in the SOT area. Significant resources were going to be made available. I set a meeting up with the Head of Estates and their Head of Planning and Development. I brought my Managing Director along for the meeting. On arriving at the council nobody had heard of us and we ended up sitting in a half hour meeting with a junior member of the Estates Department. It was an utter embarrassment. The problem always has been and always will be the council. They couldn't organise a lash up in a brewery. I have never worked out how a City smack bang on the M6 located 40 odd miles from both Manchester and Birmingham has never managed to raise its profile. They have zero vision and even less ambition. Makes me sad. Exactly this mate. I feel lucky to be based in Stoke-On-Trent as my business involves travelling to different areas daily. We’re well positioned for travel to the north west, midlands, east midlands, South Yorkshire, north and mid wales, etc. Stoke should be thriving with businesses and even commuters but it’s just been left to rot.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 20, 2020 13:01:39 GMT
I remember back in 2008/9 I was working for a large Manchester based development company and was tasked with assessing land opportunities for development specifically in the SOT area. Significant resources were going to be made available. I set a meeting up with the Head of Estates and their Head of Planning and Development. I brought my Managing Director along for the meeting. On arriving at the council nobody had heard of us and we ended up sitting in a half hour meeting with a junior member of the Estates Department. It was an utter embarrassment. The problem always has been and always will be the council. They couldn't organise a lash up in a brewery. I have never worked out how a City smack bang on the M6 located 40 odd miles from both Manchester and Birmingham has never managed to raise its profile. They have zero vision and even less ambition. Makes me sad. Exactly this mate. I feel lucky to be based in Stoke-On-Trent as my business involves travelling to different areas daily. We’re well positioned for travel to the north west, midlands, east midlands, South Yorkshire, north and mid wales, etc. Stoke should be thriving with businesses and even commuters but it’s just been left to rot. It was a total shocker for me. We were courting St Helens at the same time as it is obviously a regeneration type authority similar to Stoke. Regeneration authorities by their very nature encourage inward investment with open arms. The difference in attitude between the 2 authorities however was chalk and cheese. St Helens bent over backwards to encourage the investment and as a result got a lot of it. Stoke on the other hand didn't know who we were despite a formal meeting being set up. It was a sad day. And an embarrassing one as I had been trying to put a really positive spin on Stoke as an area to my Managing Director. Didn't affect my job but my reputation was forever slightly tainted by that episode by that particular MD.
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Post by misterj on Dec 20, 2020 13:59:37 GMT
Some great points here..... so if we're agreed that Jo Gideon needs to consider our concerns then those of you who live in Stoke Central, if you'd like, can copy my original letter/email published below, explain that she could not help the author as he lives in Newcastle ST5, but now you'd like her to consider it coming from you as you are, indeed, a bona-fide Stoke Central resident. They insist on you providing a name, address + point of contact, thanks people!! Please edit or add to it with personal points! PHIL
There is increasing evidence that the city centre (Hanley) is deteriorating at quite a pace. People are writing to the Sentinel and saying they "fear for their lives" and find the squalour, the threat from homeless, beggars and druggies giving it the air of a "post-apocalyptic zombie movie". Very strong words indeed. I know Amazon home deliveries, Covid and fears over Brexit and job losses have all played their part in closing stores down but I am greatly disturbed by the notion that the place I grew up (Shelton, just South of Hanley) should be deemed "dangerous"? In the 70's 80's and 90's there might have been the occasional unsavoury incident in Hanley at night time but in no way would the place have been classed as unsafe in daylight hours? I feel that your party has made a pledge to level up the North and the South and I am wondering if there is some fund which can be accessed to provide security for the shoppers of Hanley, maybe find out where they feel most vulnerable and have hi-viz badged patrol officers forming 'corridors' of safety from the car parks and bus station towards the most popular shops? I know you have done some sterling work around the NHS, mental health, transport etc but the reputation and economy of the whole city rests upon a strong city centre. Could there not be free parking? Could businesses be offered tax breaks? But more importantly, could the environment be made SAFER? I have included some comments from a recent chat on Stoke City FC fans' website (The Oatcake website) about the state of Hanley.
'dirtclod' said ...... Legalize Marijuana and open up Dispensaries? No in all seriousness I hate to hear this I really do. You guys have SO MUCH history in these areas, it's truly sad. I live in the US and am seeing the same thing over here with the move away from "Brick & Mortar" economies. I really think that the future is in creating green belts out of these abandoned retail outlets. Return that land to its state before we came along. Only exception should be to create additional AFFORDABLE housing. (Yeah I know, if they do build housing, then they'll likely "gentrify" the area, making it un-affordable housing) that kind of thinking needs to change. I hate urban-sprawl - to me, it's the new form of littering. Building new, ridiculously un-affordable houses that nobody is going to buy as opposed to renovating what we already have. Ok I won't get started here.
I'm just saying, doing SOMETHING different other than just leaving the buildings to rot is better than doing nothing. Unless cities LIKE providing drug dealers places to operate from. Problem is, there are SO MANY of these areas that most countries just don't have the budget right now even to bulldoze it and plant trees/grass, especially with Covid...
'flea79' said .... i work in the centre of town and it has been dreadful since lockdown, packs of druggies/dustheads have had free reign and the run of the place, im relatively fit and healthy and can handle myself but i wouldnt fancy my chances against 5 or 6 of these creatures if they tried it on, and they really look like they would, i take the banking and alter my route everytime i go now
'innocentbystander' said .... When you look at old pictures of Hanley it's tragic to see what's been demolished for the short term gain of a few big shops and a shit shopping centre, which also looks doomed.
Personally I'm delighted to see the demise of mindless shopping as a standard past time, the planet is awash with cheap Chinese plastic disposable tat. To encourage people to go out and buy more is not a solution for the economy or the planet.
Town and city centres are going to have to become more residential, and more leisure focused.
'Boothen' said..... Hanley is dead. Council corruption saw to that. Now it's nothing but violent 'homeless' druggies and alcoholics fighting each other, pestering the public and shitting in the street.
'cerebralstokie' said ..... All very depressing, really. I have only been to Hanley once in recent years, but it was unrecognizable from the Hanley I remember decades ago. Clearly there are massive problems with drugs etc. The Council needs to look at models of successful town centre regeneration. Altrincham near to where I live is an example. They have developed the market at a "destination" with food outlets, coffee shops and other meeting places. People must feel safe there (not the case in Hanley, apparently). Hanley does have the Museum, Victoria Hall and Regent Theatre so it has one or two things going for it as a destination. With students on the doorstep there is potential to develop the night time economy but until basic problems are solved, I don't see much future for the place. Most people do want to go out and meet up with friends, but by all accounts they are currently not likely to do this in Hanley (or Longton or Burslem) I remember, many years ago, of boarding a plane in Chicago and encountering a group of tourists "excited" about their forthcoming trip to Stoke-on-Trent to visit all the attractions associated with the Pottery industry. Stoke-on-Trent undersells itself in many ways - it failed in its bid to become U.K. City of Culture a coup[le of years back. I suspect the poor state of infrastructure and of suitable places to stay might have been a factor, but we have a lot to be proud about in our heritage as a city. The presence of druggies and down and outs in the city is a big problem for visitors and I would have to agree that there is not a simple solution to this.
'spiderpuss' said ...... Went this Sunday, to say it was horrific isn't an understatement. Parked up near Bucknall New Road (before they shut it off that is) and the endless tide of closed shops hits you immediately. Over where the old bus-station & Argos is just a massive hole in the ground and walking around street to street was just shop to let, shop boarded up, or tumbling down. Some shops seem to have been closed for at least a decade with no real new incumbent coming forward any time soon. You have to wonder if the little corner-row where Frankie's bar and Burton Stores was, can't get the investment to be done-up, you have to wonder what can. It's a minor corner of the area and would be a tiny investment. Closing shops is pretty similar to this virus, shops close, the area gets worse, more shops close the area drops even further and so on. The shops I did see opened looked bleak or already on their last legs (Bonmarche for instance). The things I did go for, I couldn't get, even though the person behind the till was at Waterstones was pleasant enough. Next Christmas will I make another venture up there - you'd think not. Then there's the "threat" level that Hanley never used to have. There was somebody wearing a kilt whacked up to the eyeballs shouting at all and anyone. There was a group of lads roaming around, clearly not observing groups of 4. It just didn't feel safe and I'm no 10 stone weakling scared of his own shadow. Does anyone really expect a woman to shop on her own in this environment? Of course no Police to be seen just to get people to move on, and I dare say they've all been fired or too busy with something else.
Stoke & Hanley suffer from a lot of problems, too many disparate shopping areas vying for what little business dares walk out. Unpleasant and horrible environments that aren't encouraging anybody to make any sort of effort to visit these - what probably are- decent shops.
It's just too easy and pleasant to shop at home nowadays, and a post I wrote a while back mentioned the massive barns being built on the M1/M6 corridor. If you ever wondered where your high street went - it's there.
Hanley is way way too big for the demand and the whole place will have to shrink probably by at least 50% to even make some sort of fist of it. The rest of the land will have to be turned over to housing. To think anything else can be done with it is foolish in the extreme.
Thankyou for considering the above Jo.
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Post by misterj on Dec 20, 2020 18:32:47 GMT
In HUGE contrast to the reply I received from Stoke Central’s MP I received a very comprehensive response from Stoke Council leader Abi Brown on a Sunday afternoon! (That’s dedication for you!) She makes some excellent observations about Stoke being a poly centric city, reductions in footfall due to Covid etc how the council has to spend 60% of budget on social care and how they are trying to employ more patrol officers and Covid officers in the city centre as well as increase housing stock there. Very little to argue with there and I thanked her genuinely for taking the time to reply, I did point out that positives going on need to be communicated in as many ways/media platforms as possible to present a better perception of Hanley.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 21, 2020 11:44:17 GMT
In HUGE contrast to the reply I received from Stoke Central’s MP I received a very comprehensive response from Stoke Council leader Abi Brown on a Sunday afternoon! (That’s dedication for you!) She makes some excellent observations about Stoke being a poly centric city, reductions in footfall due to Covid etc how the council has to spend 60% of budget on social care and how they are trying to employ more patrol officers and Covid officers in the city centre as well as increase housing stock there. Very little to argue with there and I thanked her genuinely for taking the time to reply, I did point out that positives going on need to be communicated in as many ways/media platforms as possible to present a better perception of Hanley. Good news that she has responded. I do however think that the decline of Stoke is something that requires a huge sea change in attitude right at the top of the council. A visionary character is required who can identify what the place actually has going for it and how to capitalise on that with a new look at how to promote the place. Someone who will get rid of this attitude that it is a place to poke fun at. Someone who will give the place its pride back. The main advantage as I see it (others on here have too) is location. Stoke is incredibly well located for access to Manchester/Liverpool and the NW and also for Birmingham and the West Midlands. The city is sat on J15 and 16 of the M6 (quite possibly the busiest stretch of motorway outside the M25). 4 international airports within less than 1 hours drive (Manchester/Liverpool/Birmingham/Midlands). The city has a rich history and played a massive role in the Industrial revolution that I think has almost been washed from national history and credited entirely to Manchester. It has cheap land and rucks of it and it has a solid demographic for a capable and willing workforce. It is surrounded by fantastic countryside and many very pleasant settlements. It is home to the second oldest football club in the world. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't ever recall any positive relationship between the council and SCFC. I believe together they could have done much more with our recent 10 years in the Premier League. All I ever seem to remember is animosity over ownership of the stadium and surrounding land etc. Feel free to add many things I have likely missed but in what I have mentioned alone someone with the right credentials could surely do something to get this once fine city back on the right path. Anything that is ever done seems to be sticking plaster repairs. The place needs to rip up the old rules and create a new vision, encourage investment and provide the policies that will encourage business and people to want to be a part of it. If I was the leader of the council I would first recognise that I am not the visionary person required and I would search high and wide to go and get that person. And pay them the necessary amount to make them come and take the job on. Manchester had Howard Bernstein, who to be fair had his critics, but the job he oversaw through the 90s and up until recently to turn the fortunes of Manchester around was nothing short of outstanding. That is the kind of character required.
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Post by danceswithclams on Dec 21, 2020 13:53:03 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong but I don't ever recall any positive relationship between the council and SCFC. They built us a new stadium and then later sold it to us on the cheap.
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Post by elystokie on Dec 21, 2020 14:00:24 GMT
In HUGE contrast to the reply I received from Stoke Central’s MP I received a very comprehensive response from Stoke Council leader Abi Brown on a Sunday afternoon! (That’s dedication for you!) She makes some excellent observations about Stoke being a poly centric city, reductions in footfall due to Covid etc how the council has to spend 60% of budget on social care and how they are trying to employ more patrol officers and Covid officers in the city centre as well as increase housing stock there. Very little to argue with there and I thanked her genuinely for taking the time to reply, I did point out that positives going on need to be communicated in as many ways/media platforms as possible to present a better perception of Hanley. Good news that she has responded. I do however think that the decline of Stoke is something that requires a huge sea change in attitude right at the top of the council. A visionary character is required who can identify what the place actually has going for it and how to capitalise on that with a new look at how to promote the place. Someone who will get rid of this attitude that it is a place to poke fun at. Someone who will give the place its pride back. The main advantage as I see it (others on here have too) is location. Stoke is incredibly well located for access to Manchester/Liverpool and the NW and also for Birmingham and the West Midlands. The city is sat on J15 and 16 of the M6 (quite possibly the busiest stretch of motorway outside the M25). 4 international airports within less than 1 hours drive (Manchester/Liverpool/Birmingham/Midlands). The city has a rich history and played a massive role in the Industrial revolution that I think has almost been washed from national history and credited entirely to Manchester. It has cheap land and rucks of it and it has a solid demographic for a capable and willing workforce. It is surrounded by fantastic countryside and many very pleasant settlements. It is home to the second oldest football club in the world. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't ever recall any positive relationship between the council and SCFC. I believe together they could have done much more with our recent 10 years in the Premier League. All I ever seem to remember is animosity over ownership of the stadium and surrounding land etc. Feel free to add many things I have likely missed but in what I have mentioned alone someone with the right credentials could surely do something to get this once fine city back on the right path. Anything that is ever done seems to be sticking plaster repairs. The place needs to rip up the old rules and create a new vision, encourage investment and provide the policies that will encourage business and people to want to be a part of it. If I was the leader of the council I would first recognise that I am not the visionary person required and I would search high and wide to go and get that person. And pay them the necessary amount to make them come and take the job on. Manchester had Howard Bernstein, who to be fair had his critics, but the job he oversaw through the 90s and up until recently to turn the fortunes of Manchester around was nothing short of outstanding. That is the kind of character required. Abi Brown always comes over very well when she's on Radio Stoke (once a week at the moment), evidently very passionate about the city. I've only heard Jo Gideon a couple of times on there, on those occasions it seemed to me she could be be anywhere, the words would remain the same. I'd like to think JG will come to have at least some affection for the place she's representing but if she's shown that so far I've missed it.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 21, 2020 14:14:28 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong but I don't ever recall any positive relationship between the council and SCFC. They built us a new stadium and then later sold it to us on the cheap. Fair enough. I don't profess to know the ins and outs. But I do get a feeling there is no love between the two. I would have thought there must have been a great opportunity for the council to use the reach of a premier league club to enhance its own reputation to a wider audience. I get the feeling opportunities have been missed. But what your point proves is that savvy business owners can pull the councils pants down over deals. And this has been going on too long. Coupled with an obvious lack of ability to attract any investment in the first place it doesn't make for a promising mix. Lets face it SCFC couldn't exactly move to a different part of the country and yet the council come out of the deal with very little in a relative sense. How is that acting for the residents of Stoke? I mean how long exactly was the old ground site sat empty acting as nothing better than somewhere for dogs to have a crap? As I say I get the impression everything is done on the cheap and with no holistic plan. Just emergency repair jobs covering up the many cracks. Google Howard Bernstein and what he did for Manchester. This is the kind of vision Stoke needs. Otherwise the place will continue its decline into total obscurity. And think about it, a city with an undeniably good location and the powers that be for decades have turned it into a relative backwater. It is a spectacular failure if we are going to be perfectly honest with ourselves.
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Post by spiderpuss on Dec 26, 2020 10:01:15 GMT
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Post by misterj on Dec 26, 2020 14:55:25 GMT
Yes you’re right .... I would have thought Stoke was desperately ahead of Newcastle and Stafford in the ‘in need of a sprucing up and refurb’ queue!!!
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