Charities are the only business that can afford the extortionate rental costs.
There's going to be a recalibration away from retail to leisure in the high street, but that only works in places people want to go. Hanley currently isn't one of those places, and its hard to see what can be done to change that.
Post by cerebralstokie on Dec 8, 2020 11:12:49 GMT
All very depressing, really. I have only been to Hanley once in recent years, but it was unrecognizable from the Hanley I remember decades ago. Clearly there are massive problems with drugs etc. The Council needs to look at models of successful town centre regeneration. Altrincham near to where I live is an example. They have developed the market at a "destination" with food outlets, coffee shops and other meeting places. People must feel safe there (not the case in Hanley, apparently). Hanley does have the Museum, Victoria Hall and Regent Theatre so it has one or two things going for it as a destination. With students on the doorstep there is potential to develop the night time economy but until basic problems are solved, I don't see much future for the place. Most people do want to go out and meet up with friends, but by all accounts they are currently not likely to do this in Hanley (or Longton or Burslem)
All very depressing, really. I have only been to Hanley once in recent years, but it was unrecognizable from the Hanley I remember decades ago. Clearly there are massive problems with drugs etc. The Council needs to look at models of successful town centre regeneration. Altrincham near to where I live is an example. They have developed the market at a "destination" with food outlets, coffee shops and other meeting places. People must feel safe there (not the case in Hanley, apparently). Hanley does have the Museum, Victoria Hall and Regent Theatre so it has one or two things going for it as a destination. With students on the doorstep there is potential to develop the night time economy but until basic problems are solved, I don't see much future for the place. Most people do want to go out and meet up with friends, but by all accounts they are currently not likely to do this in Hanley (or Longton or Burslem)
Altrincham Market is lovely, but that's what an actual Tory constituency looks like, and not just a kid-on one as we have. Piccadilly is the nearest equivalent in Hanley, and there isn't the footfall/disposable income to support both it and somewhere similar.
That said, SOMETHING has to be done with the public realm, as its so grim. Covid was an opportunity to get homeless people off the streets and into intensive support, but things seem too far gone in Hanley even for that.
All very depressing, really. I have only been to Hanley once in recent years, but it was unrecognizable from the Hanley I remember decades ago. Clearly there are massive problems with drugs etc. The Council needs to look at models of successful town centre regeneration. Altrincham near to where I live is an example. They have developed the market at a "destination" with food outlets, coffee shops and other meeting places. People must feel safe there (not the case in Hanley, apparently). Hanley does have the Museum, Victoria Hall and Regent Theatre so it has one or two things going for it as a destination. With students on the doorstep there is potential to develop the night time economy but until basic problems are solved, I don't see much future for the place. Most people do want to go out and meet up with friends, but by all accounts they are currently not likely to do this in Hanley (or Longton or Burslem)
Altrincham Market is lovely, but that's what an actual Tory constituency looks like, and not just a kid-on one as we have. Piccadilly is the nearest equivalent in Hanley, and there isn't the footfall/disposable income to support both it and somewhere similar.
That said, SOMETHING has to be done with the public realm, as its so grim. Covid was an opportunity to get homeless people off the streets and into intensive support, but things seem too far gone in Hanley even for that.
I agree that Altrincham is a very affluent area, and from a socio economic point of view miles away from the Potteries. Nevertheless, Hanley is the only town in the Potteries with enough attractions to call a "destination". It is the natural centre of the city and if anywhere has the potential to be improved to the point of being somewhere to want to visit for social reasons as well as shopping.
Altrincham Market is lovely, but that's what an actual Tory constituency looks like, and not just a kid-on one as we have. Piccadilly is the nearest equivalent in Hanley, and there isn't the footfall/disposable income to support both it and somewhere similar.
That said, SOMETHING has to be done with the public realm, as its so grim. Covid was an opportunity to get homeless people off the streets and into intensive support, but things seem too far gone in Hanley even for that.
I agree that Altrincham is a very affluent area, and from a socio economic point of view miles away from the Potteries. Nevertheless, Hanley is the only town in the Potteries with enough attractions to call a "destination". It is the natural centre of the city and if anywhere has the potential to be improved to the point of being somewhere to want to visit for social reasons as well as shopping.
Agree 100% that the population should be there to support it, but it just doesn't. The dispersed nature of the 6 towns must have an affect, but they aren't really used for leisure either as dar as I can see. The precise demographic the centre should be aimed at chip in for minibuses to take them to Manchester/Birmingham/anywhere but here.
They have to do something alright, but the chances of success are slim.
I agree that Altrincham is a very affluent area, and from a socio economic point of view miles away from the Potteries. Nevertheless, Hanley is the only town in the Potteries with enough attractions to call a "destination". It is the natural centre of the city and if anywhere has the potential to be improved to the point of being somewhere to want to visit for social reasons as well as shopping.
Agree 100% that the population should be there to support it, but it just doesn't. The dispersed nature of the 6 towns must have an affect, but they aren't really used for leisure either as dar as I can see. The precise demographic the centre should be aimed at chip in for minibuses to take them to Manchester/Birmingham/anywhere but here.
They have to do something alright, but the chances of success are slim.
I must agree that there is a lot of truth in your Eeyoreish analysis of the attraction (or lack of it) of our main city centre. However I remember, many years ago, of boarding a plane in Chicago and encountering a group of tourists "excited" about their forthcoming trip to Stoke-on-Trent to visit all the attractions associated with the Pottery industry. Stoke-on-Trent undersells itself in many ways - it failed in its bid to become U.K. City of Culture a coup[le of years back. I suspect the poor state of infrastructure and of suitable places to stay might have been a factor, but we have a lot to be proud about in our heritage as a city. The presence of druggies and down and outs in the city is a big problem for visitors and I would have to agree that there is not a simple solution to this.
Agree 100% that the population should be there to support it, but it just doesn't. The dispersed nature of the 6 towns must have an affect, but they aren't really used for leisure either as dar as I can see. The precise demographic the centre should be aimed at chip in for minibuses to take them to Manchester/Birmingham/anywhere but here.
They have to do something alright, but the chances of success are slim.
I must agree that there is a lot of truth in your Eeyoreish analysis of the attraction (or lack of it) of our main city centre. However I remember, many years ago, of boarding a plane in Chicago and encountering a group of tourists "excited" about their forthcoming trip to Stoke-on-Trent to visit all the attractions associated with the Pottery industry. Stoke-on-Trent undersells itself in many ways - it failed in its bid to become U.K. City of Culture a coup[le of years back. I suspect the poor state of infrastructure and of suitable places to stay might have been a factor, but we have a lot to be proud about in our heritage as a city. The presence of druggies and down and outs in the city is a big problem for visitors and I would have to agree that there is not a simple solution to this.
The place is full of undesirables and scum imported into the area, the place feels unsafe and in all probability is unsafe, until the authorities tackle these issues it will not be a destination most decent people would choose to visit, I have not been to Hanley for years and don't plan to go back.
Went this Sunday, to say it was horrific isn't an understatement. Parked up near Bucknall New Road (before they shut it off that is) and the endless tide of closed shops hits you immediately. Over where the old bus-station & Argos is just a massive hole in the ground and walking around street to street was just shop to let, shop boarded up, or tumbling down. Some shops seem to have been closed for at least a decade with no real new incumbent coming forward any time soon. You have to wonder if the little corner-row where Frankie's bar and Burton Stores was, can't get the investment to be done-up, you have to wonder what can. It's a minor corner of the area and would be a tiny investment. Closing shops is pretty similar to this virus, shops close, the area gets worse, more shops close the area drops even further and so on. The shops I did see opened looked bleak or already on their last legs (Bonmarche for instance). The things I did go for, I couldn't get, even though the person behind the till was at Waterstones was pleasant enough. Next Christmas will I make another venture up there - you'd think not. Then there's the "threat" level that Hanley never used to have. There was somebody wearing a kilt whacked up to the eyeballs shouting at all and anyone. There was a group of lads roaming around, clearly not observing groups of 4. It just didn't feel safe and I'm no 10 stone weakling scared of his own shadow. Does anyone really expect a woman to shop on her own in this environment? Of course no Police to be seen just to get people to move on, and I dare say they've all been fired or too busy with something else.
Stoke & Hanley suffer from a lot of problems, too many disparate shopping areas vying for what little business dares walk out. Unpleasant and horrible environments that aren't encouraging anybody to make any sort of effort to visit these - what probably are- decent shops.
It's just too easy and pleasant to shop at home nowadays, and a post I wrote a while back mentioned the massive barns being built on the M1/M6 corridor. If you ever wondered where your high street went - it's there.
Hanley is way way too big for the demand and the whole place will have to shrink probably by at least 50% to even make some sort of fist of it. The rest of the land will have to be turned over to housing. To think anything else can be done with it is foolish in the extreme.
There's barely any nightlife either- someone told me me Chicago Rock has closed down now.
Worse than that there's barely enough decent pubs for a reliable pub crawl. Newcastle, Stoke, Burslem (FFS), Leek all have a better selection of pubs than what's meant to be the focal point of the area.
As an outsider willing to give anywhere a shot I've been in most pubs in Hanley and couldn't string a pub crawl together I wouldn't be embarrassed to bring someone on.
Its also instructive that people feel they have to mention they can look after themselves and still feel put off by the area. Going shopping or fir a bite to eat shouldn't feel like an assault course, and if grown men are uncomfortable with the vagrancy then the place is gubbed.
I've not had a bad experience personally, but more a depressing feeling that the places is on its uppers.
Lots of places are struggling, but has anyone been to a similarly sized place in as bad a state?
There's barely any nightlife either- someone told me me Chicago Rock has closed down now.
Worse than that there's barely enough decent pubs for a reliable pub crawl. Newcastle, Stoke, Burslem (FFS), Leek all have a better selection of pubs than what's meant to be the focal point of the area.
As an outsider willing to give anywhere a shot I've been in most pubs in Hanley and couldn't string a pub crawl together I wouldn't be embarrassed to bring someone on.
You've not even got anywhere on the fringes of Hanley whereas Newcastle has Basford/Hartshill (which have a better choice of pubs than Hanley on their own)
As spiderpuss said, the area around Argos/the old bus station is like a bomb site. That other pub- Harvey's?- has been derelict for 15 years or so now.
Its also instructive that people feel they have to mention they can look after themselves and still feel put off by the area. Going shopping or fir a bite to eat shouldn't feel like an assault course, and if grown men are uncomfortable with the vagrancy then the place is gubbed.
I've not had a bad experience personally, but more a depressing feeling that the places is on its uppers.
Lots of places are struggling, but has anyone been to a similarly sized place in as bad a state?
Walsall believe me is worse that place is the pits, another place I will never step foot in only went there due to work commitments.
I can imagine it's difficult to accept Colin we know how much you loved that place, I got a nice suit from there once, it's shame to see more business going under and so many job losses
Went this Sunday, to say it was horrific isn't an understatement. Parked up near Bucknall New Road (before they shut it off that is) and the endless tide of closed shops hits you immediately. Over where the old bus-station & Argos is just a massive hole in the ground and walking around street to street was just shop to let, shop boarded up, or tumbling down. Some shops seem to have been closed for at least a decade with no real new incumbent coming forward any time soon. You have to wonder if the little corner-row where Frankie's bar and Burton Stores was, can't get the investment to be done-up, you have to wonder what can. It's a minor corner of the area and would be a tiny investment. Closing shops is pretty similar to this virus, shops close, the area gets worse, more shops close the area drops even further and so on. The shops I did see opened looked bleak or already on their last legs (Bonmarche for instance). The things I did go for, I couldn't get, even though the person behind the till was at Waterstones was pleasant enough. Next Christmas will I make another venture up there - you'd think not. Then there's the "threat" level that Hanley never used to have. There was somebody wearing a kilt whacked up to the eyeballs shouting at all and anyone. There was a group of lads roaming around, clearly not observing groups of 4. It just didn't feel safe and I'm no 10 stone weakling scared of his own shadow. Does anyone really expect a woman to shop on her own in this environment? Of course no Police to be seen just to get people to move on, and I dare say they've all been fired or too busy with something else.
Stoke & Hanley suffer from a lot of problems, too many disparate shopping areas vying for what little business dares walk out. Unpleasant and horrible environments that aren't encouraging anybody to make any sort of effort to visit these - what probably are- decent shops.
It's just too easy and pleasant to shop at home nowadays, and a post I wrote a while back mentioned the massive barns being built on the M1/M6 corridor. If you ever wondered where your high street went - it's there.
Hanley is way way too big for the demand and the whole place will have to shrink probably by at least 50% to even make some sort of fist of it. The rest of the land will have to be turned over to housing. To think anything else can be done with it is foolish in the extreme.
Agree with all that The big new “barn” about to open at Cannock will drain even more shoppers away
I wrote to the Stoke Central MP today (Jo Gideon) to let her know the above but the HM Gov’t online form that you fill in kept saying I’d put in an incorrect postcode. (I tried ten times with different permutations) Anyway I left her a message by telephone and will use good old fashioned e-mail to send her above comments from you guys, let’s see if she cares.
I wrote to the Stoke Central MP today (Jo Gideon) to let her know the above but the HM Gov’t online form that you fill in kept saying I’d put in an incorrect postcode. (I tried ten times with different permutations) Anyway I left her a message by telephone and will use good old fashioned e-mail to send her above comments from you guys, let’s see if she cares.
Will be interesting to see her reply the Council have to stop the City overall being used as a dumping ground for people not wanted in other more affluent areas, policing needs increasing using regular officers not PCSO's, the whole area needs a proper root and branch clean up.
I wrote to the Stoke Central MP today (Jo Gideon) to let her know the above but the HM Gov’t online form that you fill in kept saying I’d put in an incorrect postcode. (I tried ten times with different permutations) Anyway I left her a message by telephone and will use good old fashioned e-mail to send her above comments from you guys, let’s see if she cares.
Be interested in her response.
Have only seen her on Sunday Politics, where she didnt impress. Assume she'll retire at the next election to give a stronger candidate a run at it.
I wrote to the Stoke Central MP today (Jo Gideon) to let her know the above but the HM Gov’t online form that you fill in kept saying I’d put in an incorrect postcode. (I tried ten times with different permutations) Anyway I left her a message by telephone and will use good old fashioned e-mail to send her above comments from you guys, let’s see if she cares.
Stoke is part of the "red wall" It has been neglected in comparison with bigger cities. It will be interesting to see if H.M.G. is prepared to make any serious effort in making the resources available to sort out some of the basic problems associated with the city. I am not holding my breath
I wrote to the Stoke Central MP today (Jo Gideon) to let her know the above but the HM Gov’t online form that you fill in kept saying I’d put in an incorrect postcode. (I tried ten times with different permutations) Anyway I left her a message by telephone and will use good old fashioned e-mail to send her above comments from you guys, let’s see if she cares.
Stoke is part of the "red wall" It has been neglected in comparison with bigger cities. It will be interesting to see if H.M.G. is prepared to make any serious effort in making the resources available to sort out some of the basic problems associated with the city. I am not holding my breath
The standard of some of the MPs winning Red Wall seats shows how little chance the Tories gave themselves in places. Some seriously weak candidates who'd never be let near a safe seat. Jo's at an age she can be retired easily enough, but several others will be sitting ducks now the public have had an actual look at them.
With the Tories controlling every tier of govt in Staffordshire, you'd hope they'd use that for some good, even if just in a cycnical attempt to hold onto what they have. Like you i expect little delivery, and lots of bluster around the monorail to Leek.
Happy to report that I've written a HUGE e-mail to Jo Gideon MP for Stoke Central and included several of your fears, disappointments and recommendations guys! Let's see how much this partic. person wants to LEVEL UP the North with the South! I await the response with baited breath!
Happy to report that I've written a HUGE e-mail to Jo Gideon MP for Stoke Central and included several of your fears, disappointments and recommendations guys! Let's see how much this partic. person wants to LEVEL UP the North with the South! I await the response with baited breath!
Fair play.
What Hanley needs is beyond any individual MP, but would be interested in what she has to say.
Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 11, 2020 15:07:34 GMT
I remember back in 2008/9 I was working for a large Manchester based development company and was tasked with assessing land opportunities for development specifically in the SOT area. Significant resources were going to be made available.
I set a meeting up with the Head of Estates and their Head of Planning and Development. I brought my Managing Director along for the meeting. On arriving at the council nobody had heard of us and we ended up sitting in a half hour meeting with a junior member of the Estates Department.
It was an utter embarrassment. The problem always has been and always will be the council. They couldn't organise a lash up in a brewery.
I have never worked out how a City smack bang on the M6 located 40 odd miles from both Manchester and Birmingham has never managed to raise its profile. They have zero vision and even less ambition. Makes me sad.
I remember back in 2008/9 I was working for a large Manchester based development company and was tasked with assessing land opportunities for development specifically in the SOT area. Significant resources were going to be made available.
I set a meeting up with the Head of Estates and their Head of Planning and Development. I brought my Managing Director along for the meeting. On arriving at the council nobody had heard of us and we ended up sitting in a half hour meeting with a junior member of the Estates Department.
It was an utter embarrassment. The problem always has been and always will be the council. They couldn't organise a lash up in a brewery.
I have never worked out how a City smack bang on the M6 located 40 odd miles from both Manchester and Birmingham has never managed to raise its profile. They have zero vision and even less ambition. Makes me sad.
Without ant direct experience of dealings with the Council, I have had the impression that there is a lack of competence and vision with some of the elected Council members. I am curious about the business you once worked for as I taught the two family members who control one of Manchester's largest Development Companies. No names, no pack drill, but until recently they were the main sponsors of R.H.S. Tatton Show.
I remember back in 2008/9 I was working for a large Manchester based development company and was tasked with assessing land opportunities for development specifically in the SOT area. Significant resources were going to be made available.
I set a meeting up with the Head of Estates and their Head of Planning and Development. I brought my Managing Director along for the meeting. On arriving at the council nobody had heard of us and we ended up sitting in a half hour meeting with a junior member of the Estates Department.
It was an utter embarrassment. The problem always has been and always will be the council. They couldn't organise a lash up in a brewery.
I have never worked out how a City smack bang on the M6 located 40 odd miles from both Manchester and Birmingham has never managed to raise its profile. They have zero vision and even less ambition. Makes me sad.
Without ant direct experience of dealings with the Council, I have had the impression that there is a lack of competence and vision with some of the elected Council members. I am curious about the business you once worked for as I taught the two family members who control one of Manchester's largest Development Companies. No names, no pack drill, but until recently they were the main sponsors of R.H.S. Tatton Show.
Without ant direct experience of dealings with the Council, I have had the impression that there is a lack of competence and vision with some of the elected Council members. I am curious about the business you once worked for as I taught the two family members who control one of Manchester's largest Development Companies. No names, no pack drill, but until recently they were the main sponsors of R.H.S. Tatton Show.
The Emerson Group.
Thanks for this. The brother and sister I taught run Bruntwood.