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Post by mickstupp on Nov 29, 2020 1:14:14 GMT
From memory I would say only Ryan, Wilkinson, Whelan, Delap and Fuller stepped up. If it wasn’t for Beattie and Etherington coming in January we would have dropped. Lawrence, Griffin, Sidibe all played a big part (that's 8) Lawrence came into a bit of form towards the end of the season but I think it’s pushing it to say they played a big part. More bit part I’d say.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 29, 2020 1:20:49 GMT
Lawrence, Griffin, Sidibe all played a big part (that's 8) Lawrence came into a bit of form towards the end of the season but I think it’s pushing it to say they played a big part. More bit part I’d say. Liam started 18 games, Beattie 16, Etherington 12. Diao 12 Griff 17 Sidibe 17 Even Cresswell got 11 starts and 19 from the bench. You underestimate that promotion team mate.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Nov 29, 2020 3:18:35 GMT
Surely the evidence of the last two games is proof that this squad is no where near good enough for top six. Knee jerk. Every team in this league can lose to any other on any given day. Given MON’s record since he’s came here with players also to return and our great start we have potential to finish automatics imo. Whether we do or not is to be seen but to say the squad isn’t good enough for too 6 is just talking bollocks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 4:42:04 GMT
Surely the evidence of the last two games is proof that this squad is no where near good enough for top six. Knee jerk. Every team in this league can lose to any other on any given day. Given MON’s record since he’s came here with players also to return and our great start we have potential to finish automatics imo. Whether we do or not is to be seen but to say the squad isn’t good enough for too 6 is just talking bollocks. We made Norwich look like 70s-era Brazil, until the sending off. With 11v11 that was headed for 0-4 or worse. Today, Coventry went there and made them look ordinary, Norwich relying on a penalty for a draw. Today we took Fletcher out of the side, and were so lacking in cutting edge,it was frightening, against a diabolical Wednesday side. Plenty of work to do, if we're going to be anywhere come the end of the season.
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Post by hotterpotter on Nov 29, 2020 8:37:16 GMT
Next 2 games....5 points... Have I just been whooshed? If you'd said "5 points? How is that possible from 2 games?" you would have been whooshed. 🙂 Hang on a minute! Have I just been whooshed?? 😭
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Post by stokie1947 on Nov 29, 2020 8:57:25 GMT
we have lost to 4 teams that are above us are we good enough AT PRESENT hell no
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Post by lordb on Nov 29, 2020 9:27:08 GMT
Surely the evidence of the last two games is proof that this squad is no where near good enough for top six. The last two games isn't the whole season is it. The evidence of the season so far is that we should expect to be challenging for the play offs.
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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 29, 2020 9:37:36 GMT
we have lost to 4 teams that are above us are we good enough AT PRESENT hell no We’ve also beaten two of the sides that are above us, including the then league leaders.
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Post by jjinks5 on Nov 29, 2020 10:13:48 GMT
Why oh why are we obsessed with the next game, then the next game. Surely we all know football. It changes like the wind. The teams that seem to do better just keep grinding out results. The ones that progress seem to stay under the radar. Yes in our heart of hearts we want things to happen now, but if you were to ask the management team what they thought I think the answer would be its work in progress. That's how we should all look at it. We now have youth around the squad. They are not ready. But under the guidance of this manager they will be. When he has the right mix and at the right time.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 29, 2020 10:24:04 GMT
Surely the evidence of the last two games is proof that this squad is no where near good enough for top six. The last two games isn't the whole season is it. The evidence of the season so far is that we should expect to be challenging for the play offs. I’m still thinking mid table for us. The season is still at an embryonic stage. It’s clear that injury and illness is going to affect all clubs and the standard of football generally in the league is attritional to put it kindly. If we can get through the next month and be roughly where we are now, if we can get Allen, Shawcross, and Verlinden back fit and if we can have a good January transfer window then yes, possibly, we might be in with a chance.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Nov 29, 2020 10:27:44 GMT
0 pts, the wheels are coming off.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 29, 2020 10:31:47 GMT
Surely the evidence of the last two games is proof that this squad is no where near good enough for top six. Knee jerk. Every team in this league can lose to any other on any given day. Given MON’s record since he’s came here with players also to return and our great start we have potential to finish automatics imo. Whether we do or not is to be seen but to say the squad isn’t good enough for too 6 is just talking bollocks. Disagree with all due respect. Our first choice eleven is decent, but this season, with the condensed fixtures and heightened risk of illness and injury, the squad depth with be tested. For me, our “supporting cast” of squad players simply aren’t good enough.
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Post by lordb on Nov 29, 2020 10:52:59 GMT
The last two games isn't the whole season is it. The evidence of the season so far is that we should expect to be challenging for the play offs. I’m still thinking mid table for us. The season is still at an embryonic stage. It’s clear that injury and illness is going to affect all clubs and the standard of football generally in the league is attritional to put it kindly. If we can get through the next month and be roughly where we are now, if we can get Allen, Shawcross, and Verlinden back fit and if we can have a good January transfer window then yes, possibly, we might be in with a chance. To finish mid table we would have to be worse than we have been in the managers 50 games so far. What makes you think we will be worse? All the expectations pre season were top 8 or so maybe play offs which is exactly how we are performing.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 29, 2020 11:06:36 GMT
I’m still thinking mid table for us. The season is still at an embryonic stage. It’s clear that injury and illness is going to affect all clubs and the standard of football generally in the league is attritional to put it kindly. If we can get through the next month and be roughly where we are now, if we can get Allen, Shawcross, and Verlinden back fit and if we can have a good January transfer window then yes, possibly, we might be in with a chance. To finish mid table we would have to be worse than we have been in the managers 50 games so far. What makes you think we will be worse? All the expectations pre season were top 8 or so maybe play offs which is exactly how we are performing. I think the heavy fixture schedule is going to work against us. I just don’t think we have the required depth of quality if injuries and Covid hit us.
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Post by lordb on Nov 29, 2020 11:08:30 GMT
To finish mid table we would have to be worse than we have been in the managers 50 games so far. What makes you think we will be worse? All the expectations pre season were top 8 or so maybe play offs which is exactly how we are performing. I think the heavy fixture schedule is going to work against us. I just don’t think we have the required depth of quality if injuries and Covid hit us. And the sides around us do? Fixture congestion will hit everybody Come January fully expect to be pretty much where we are now
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 29, 2020 11:12:05 GMT
I think the heavy fixture schedule is going to work against us. I just don’t think we have the required depth of quality if injuries and Covid hit us. And the sides around us do? Fixture congestion will hit everybody Come January fully expect to be pretty much where we are now Not sure. Would the likes of Swansea, Boro, etc have players like Cousins or Tymon in their match day 20? Genuinely don’t know the depth of the other squads but ours seems wafer thin until we get injured players back. If, like you suggest, we are within touching distance come January then it’s crucial we do some decent business in the transfer window.
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Post by lordb on Nov 29, 2020 11:20:56 GMT
And the sides around us do? Fixture congestion will hit everybody Come January fully expect to be pretty much where we are now Not sure. Would the likes of Swansea, Boro, etc have players like Cousins or Tymon in their match day 20? Genuinely don’t know the depth of the other squads but ours seems wafer thin until we get injured players back. If, like you suggest, we are within touching distance come January then it’s crucial we do some decent business in the transfer window. Google the other sides squads Google ours If anything we have more depth not less, certainly stronger than Bristol City and Middlesbrough squads. The over estimation of the opposition and under estimation of Stoke is daft. Edit: don't see much business in January unless it's players out first.
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Post by Kpsje on Nov 29, 2020 11:22:45 GMT
Next 2 games....5 points... diane abbott likes this
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 29, 2020 11:23:27 GMT
Not sure. Would the likes of Swansea, Boro, etc have players like Cousins or Tymon in their match day 20? Genuinely don’t know the depth of the other squads but ours seems wafer thin until we get injured players back. If, like you suggest, we are within touching distance come January then it’s crucial we do some decent business in the transfer window. Google the other sides squads Google ours If anything we have more depth not less, certainly stronger than Bristol City and Middlesbrough squads. The over estimation of the opposition and under estimation of Stoke is daft. We’ve finished 15th and 16th in the last two seasons. We are getting better, but I don’t see us challenging come the end of the season.
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Post by mattyd2 on Nov 29, 2020 11:39:36 GMT
Next 2 games....5 points... diane abbott likes this She advised me on it. 11 points from the next 3 games... I pointed out that was not possible... OK 8 then.. Thats better Dianne
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Post by sensiblestokie on Nov 29, 2020 14:03:26 GMT
Knee jerk. Every team in this league can lose to any other on any given day. Given MON’s record since he’s came here with players also to return and our great start we have potential to finish automatics imo. Whether we do or not is to be seen but to say the squad isn’t good enough for too 6 is just talking bollocks. Disagree with all due respect. Our first choice eleven is decent, but this season, with the condensed fixtures and heightened risk of illness and injury, the squad depth with be tested. For me, our “supporting cast” of squad players simply aren’t good enough. I get that, and partially agree. Although I think with the form we’ve shown over the last year with MON and certain players playing really well with some decent players also to come back we do have a shot of really getting into gear and going for it.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Nov 29, 2020 14:10:56 GMT
Knee jerk. Every team in this league can lose to any other on any given day. Given MON’s record since he’s came here with players also to return and our great start we have potential to finish automatics imo. Whether we do or not is to be seen but to say the squad isn’t good enough for too 6 is just talking bollocks. We made Norwich look like 70s-era Brazil, until the sending off. With 11v11 that was headed for 0-4 or worse. Today, Coventry went there and made them look ordinary, Norwich relying on a penalty for a draw. Today we took Fletcher out of the side, and were so lacking in cutting edge,it was frightening, against a diabolical Wednesday side. Plenty of work to do, if we're going to be anywhere come the end of the season. For sure a lot to be improved. But worse teams than Norwich have made us look ordinary. In the same way we have done it to teams too. This league always happens like that. But I think our team and form over the past year with players to come back makes for very exciting times this season. We also need a bit of luck, as we haven’t had so far. Potentially 6 points should/could have came from 2 games with poor decisions, we get them and we’re in the mix without being consistently brilliant.
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Post by peekay67 on Nov 29, 2020 15:53:28 GMT
We are lacking consistency. Six points from next two games and right in the mix with easier games to come.
A win and a loss is better than two draws. It's the nature of our division and we will I think definitely be top six.
Then you never know....
It may depend on who we can sign in January or who comes back from injury and hits the ground running. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
Come on Stoke!!
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 29, 2020 16:09:10 GMT
We would need 7/8 players to survive. To be fair, that was also the case the last time we went up. The majority of the players who took us up kept us up last time, if this lot took us up there'd only be 3 or 4 who'd be good enough this time. I posted above that we would need "a lot" of new players if we were promoted. I'm not sure what "a lot" means but it is also important to remember it is a team that gets promoted not 11 or 25 individual players. It is teamwork that will create success and therefore it is important not to lose the team synergy, which for example Norwich clearly have. Therefore, in the unlikely event of MO'N achieving promotion (can't believe I'm writing this!), it is vital in the process of strengthening the team with new players he does not lose the ethos and synergy that created the success in achieving promotion. It is a very difficult path to tread. The next 2 games will indicate how well MO'N is progressing, which playing Norwich (who are so much better than us) and Wednesday (who are so negative) has not. I feel MO'N is cautiously working towards a team with some synergy. At the moment some players are not firing on all cylinders and are inconsistent (Powell and Clucas) but capable of being much better, and some players are either just not good enough or not yet ready. The points achieved so far this season largely against top half teams, prove we are not far away from being a play-off level team if not quite there yet. We now need to demonstrate we can put away bottom teams and regularly beat our peers to rise to the next level.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 16:39:20 GMT
Surely the evidence of the last two games is proof that this squad is no where near good enough for top six. A lot of teams will come unstuck vs Norwich especially at their place, because they are good, and the ShW anywhere, because they seek to destroy any kind of normal football. So what happened to us will happen to 20 other teams, so ultimately those two games prove nothing. On the other hand unless we are able to solve persistent problems in the team, primarily the defensive on either flank, we will be too easily exposed and will lose a fair number of matches. The gk situation is not a crisis; I truly believe Bursik will become good. However it is imperative that Fletcher stays as fit as you can expect from someone his age and history in the position. We can just about survive the odd game without him, but any prolonged spell out will spell out our weaknesses up front. I expect Campbell will continue his rise and score many goals, but he's no battering ram like Fletcher. Equally Mikel, although he is probably due a break, must continue in the team in his role. Allen, once fit, does not possess the positional awareness and tactical discipline to take over. Perhaps Thompson can - ten years from now! I don't feel the need to set the team a target as such. I'm pleased that we are doing a fair number of things well and hopeful that we can do other things better, especially if we bring in a couple of fbs in the next transfer window. Because they're not coming from our own ranks. Playing four cds in the recent u-23 game vs Villa points to that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 20:48:50 GMT
Knee jerk. Every team in this league can lose to any other on any given day. Given MON’s record since he’s came here with players also to return and our great start we have potential to finish automatics imo. Whether we do or not is to be seen but to say the squad isn’t good enough for too 6 is just talking bollocks. We made Norwich look like 70s-era Brazil, until the sending off. With 11v11 that was headed for 0-4 or worse. Today, Coventry went there and made them look ordinary, Norwich relying on a penalty for a draw. Today we took Fletcher out of the side, and were so lacking in cutting edge,it was frightening, against a diabolical Wednesday side. Plenty of work to do, if we're going to be anywhere come the end of the season. Norwich took us very seriously and had a dossier on everyone of our players. Coventry they underestimated and paid the price. You're right about one thing and wrong about another. We have plenty of work ahead, but we are going to be somewhere come the end of the season.
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hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 432
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Post by hotpot on Nov 30, 2020 4:06:14 GMT
We will be getting Allen, ShawX and Verlinden back for the second half of the season. Campbell, Mikel, Collins, Souttar, Fletcher and Davies are "musts" ; Then there's Clucas, Brown, McClean, Baath, Smith, Thompson, Cousins, Powell, Gregory, Tymon, Tashan, Bursik, ..... and hopefully two new forwards, to replace Vokes and Ince, ....
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Post by darksideofthemoon on Nov 30, 2020 6:01:44 GMT
Next 2 games....5 points...
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Nov 30, 2020 7:05:45 GMT
0 pts, the wheels are coming off. Thats the spirit!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 21:07:08 GMT
We will be getting Allen, ShawX and Verlinden back for the second half of the season. Campbell, Mikel, Collins, Souttar, Fletcher and Davies are "musts" ; Then there's Clucas, Brown, McClean, Baath, Smith, Thompson, Cousins, Powell, Gregory, Tymon, Tashan, Bursik, ..... and hopefully two new forwards, to replace Vokes and Ince, .... We don't need to replace nothing. We should look for totally different players. When Tibo hits his stride, we don't need a new wide player. We need a player like Fletcher but 6-8 years younger, one we can build on for a long time. What we need is two good fullbacks, who can actually tackle and position themselves properly. We have three but they're all going to cause more problems than they solve. But with Fox having been signed in the summer, and the little money we have, it's probably unlikely the board will sanction any more leftbacks.
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