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Post by spitthedog on Aug 27, 2020 23:04:36 GMT
I was thinking about the omission of Grealish from the England squad and looking at the other midfield players chosen, I just wondered why there is such a dearth of flair players in the modern game when you compare to past era especially considering the favourable conditions now enjoyed by our players. i.e. unprecedented level of protection from referees, fantastic pitches for every game etc Whatever you think of Grealish (and I don't claim he is amazing) he is one of the very few English players with a creative spark imho, also a player who can put his foot on the ball and dictate the pace of the game, add creative spark etc
In the 70s every team seemed to have at least one flair player. Hudson-Stoke, Bowles-QPR, Currie-Sheff Utd, Worthington-Leicester, Best-Man Utd, Rodney Marsh Man City, Brooking-WHU, Hoddle-Spurs.
They all played on muddy pitches and got clobbered by the likes of Chopper Harris, Tommy Smith and Billy Bremner every 5 minutes.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 27, 2020 23:09:49 GMT
Flair is coached out of players early these days, in favour of fitness, positional discipline, pressing, transitions etc.
No room in the game for a flawed genius any more.
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Post by skip on Aug 28, 2020 0:29:27 GMT
I read this thread as Lack of players with hair in English football, believing that male pattern baldness or boned crops were back in fashion.
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Post by newsteadst3 on Aug 28, 2020 3:21:44 GMT
Although not English related, that CL Final last week was like an athletics meeting, everyone looked in prime shape with fitness levels sky high. All built like Middleweight boxer's too.
What happened to the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace.
After watching that I also must it looked like they were all film stars too and they bin in the make up room before kick off
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Post by lordherefordsknob on Aug 28, 2020 6:13:30 GMT
Although not English related, that CL Final last week was like an athletics meeting, everyone looked in prime shape with fitness levels sky high. All built like Middleweight boxer's too. What happened to the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace. After watching that I also must it looked like they were all film stars too and they bin in the make up room before kick off I believe the balding, tubby midfielder went to Reading😂. |
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 28, 2020 6:25:52 GMT
Not valued as much as athleticism in the youth game by all accounts, I think it is starting to change though but Bayern probably In a better position to comment.
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Post by bingbang on Aug 28, 2020 6:37:12 GMT
Why do you need flair players, for all the names you mention, never did England come anywhere near winning any trophy. However look at the Germans, one of the best teams in the world, have one World Cup and euros without flair, just a well oiled machine.
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Post by Gods on Aug 28, 2020 7:08:12 GMT
I wonder if just the sheer speed, fitness levels and strength of the players means there is no longer room for flair in quite the same way?
The modern game demands simple stuff done with discipline, split second speed and accuracy.
It's like no one has rounded a goal keeper since about 1984, there just isn't time and space anymore, you need to get your shot away, think Harry Kane.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Aug 28, 2020 7:14:38 GMT
I wonder if just the sheer speed, fitness levels and strength of the players means there is no longer room for flair in quite the same way? The modern game demands simple stuff done with discipline, split second speed and accuracy. Agreed on all counts. Have a look at the 66 WC final. The pace of the game and the space available are remarkable. Your tubby, balding player (actually Bobby Charlton was lean) could receive the ball in midfield. Have a three course meal, with wine. Enjoy a pipeful of old shag irregular. Take a nap... ...then pick out a defence splitting pass. |
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Post by Gods on Aug 28, 2020 7:18:11 GMT
I wonder if just the sheer speed, fitness levels and strength of the players means there is no longer room for flair in quite the same way? The modern game demands simple stuff done with discipline, split second speed and accuracy. Agreed on all counts. Have a look at the 66 WC final. The pace of the game and the space available are remarkable. Your tubby, balding player (actually Bobby Charlton was lean) could receive the ball in midfield. Have a three course meal, with wine. Enjoy a pipeful of old shag irregular. Take a nap... ...then pick out a defence splitting pass. Yes, first thing that hits you about the 66 World Cup Final is just the space on the pitch, gaps the size of an airfield! |
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Post by saintquin on Aug 28, 2020 8:26:06 GMT
Think teams (managers) are too scared of losing for them to have flair players. Would rather have hard working players to try and stop the opposition than go and win!
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Post by Clem Fandango on Aug 28, 2020 8:27:11 GMT
Is it just me that doesn't rate Grealish?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 8:29:08 GMT
Rashford? Sancho? Sterling?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 8:36:52 GMT
What are you talking about?
We have Nick Powell.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 28, 2020 8:39:02 GMT
There are better players than Grealish in the squad, don’t see the issue with his omission?
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Post by thfc67 on Aug 28, 2020 8:51:16 GMT
The last 'flair' player at Spurs, Christian Eriksen, was also one of the fittest in the PL for distance covered in a match.
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Aug 28, 2020 9:17:37 GMT
There are better players than Grealish in the squad, don’t see the issue with his omission? Hi Gareth. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 28, 2020 9:21:45 GMT
There are better players than Grealish in the squad, don’t see the issue with his omission? Hi Gareth. There are though. Foden and Mount are much better than him. |
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 28, 2020 9:22:03 GMT
There are better players than Grealish in the squad, don’t see the issue with his omission? That may be so, but Is suppose I was just highlighting the decline in the game of that type of player. |
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 28, 2020 9:28:50 GMT
Why do you need flair players, for all the names you mention, never did England come anywhere near winning any trophy. However look at the Germans, one of the best teams in the world, have one World Cup and euros without flair, just a well oiled machine. It's a fair point but I often wonder how those players would have fared with the protection of referees that exists today. They were reasonably successful despite being clobbered every 5 minutes by axemen. They were often booted out of games and sustained bad injuries as a result. The likes of Hudson had to be fairly athletic to avoid scything tackles. I guess it just seems ironic that conditions are more conducive to their approach in modern football but they have completely disappeared as a species. I'm personally miss this element of the game. Nick Powell is the closest we have for sure. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 28, 2020 12:33:39 GMT
Phillips isn't a flair player, but he is fantastic at dictating tempo.
Something England have really been unable to do against good sides. A quality player slowing the pace down and just controlling the ball would have won the Semi-Final against Croatia, instead we had unrelenting pressure dictated by Modric. Bielsa plays arguably the most demanding football physically in English football in terms of how much players are required to press and transition regardless of position. None of it would be possible without Phillips sitting.
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Aug 28, 2020 12:53:48 GMT
There are though. Foden and Mount are much better than him. I don't agree that either are much better,I don't think they could be in villa's team and make the same impact he did whereas I think grealush would flourish at man City or Chelsea |
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Post by skip on Aug 28, 2020 12:57:23 GMT
I've started quickly counting* how many players on either the defending or attacking team are within camera shot (this is a televisual non-scientific** observational analysis). More often than not, there could be a passage of play around one penalty area and there are eight or nine outfield players buzzing around in triangles, closing down, doing whatever. And then, in under ten seconds the same occurs at the other end. The days of players spread out over the pitch, which leaves gaps big enough to drive a fleet of buses through appear long gone. Ergo, speed, athleticism and well honed groups of players within a team are the new way to play and organise a team. The days of the artisan balding midfield general, one foot on the ball, pipe*** in hand, are long gone.
*does anyone else on here count visually in threes?
**I'd like to see a overhead wide angle view of a game, akin to a heat map in real time to see whether this holds true over the course of a whole match. They could film it in 4k from an airship hovering 100 foot overhead. It would be a fascinating watch.
***not that pipe.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Aug 28, 2020 12:58:08 GMT
Although not English related, that CL Final last week was like an athletics meeting, everyone looked in prime shape with fitness levels sky high. All built like Middleweight boxer's too. What happened to the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace. After watching that I also must it looked like they were all film stars too and they bin in the make up room before kick off the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace now has the ball nicked off him in 3 seconds by about 4 gagenpressing blokes with 6 packs. You just don’t get the time you used to for this sort of player |
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Post by skip on Aug 28, 2020 13:03:54 GMT
Although not English related, that CL Final last week was like an athletics meeting, everyone looked in prime shape with fitness levels sky high. All built like Middleweight boxer's too. What happened to the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace. After watching that I also must it looked like they were all film stars too and they bin in the make up room before kick off the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace now has the ball nicked off him in 3 seconds by about 4 gagenpressing blokes with 6 packs. You just don’t get the time you used to for this sort of player Liking the use of the numerical 3, 4 and 6 in short succession. Grammatically troubling but effective. |
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 28, 2020 13:04:00 GMT
More players are far more technically advanced than they were 'back in the good old days'. (What a shock, Stoke fans harping on about the past)
As for the Germans, they've always been very very good footballers.
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Post by skip on Aug 28, 2020 13:07:13 GMT
^ and at the highest level, footballers are becoming more like Tour de France cyclists. You can see it in the style and cut of shirts they wear too.
I blame Wenger for kickstarting all of this by the secret blood transfusions he certainly did not make all the Arsenal players allegedly have in a hotel room one secret afternoon in the 1990s.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2020 13:13:28 GMT
I'm not a massive fan of Grealish but on the one stat alone of him being second only to De Bruyne in chances created in the Premier League last season, in what was a really, really shit side suggests he was perhaps a bit unlucky not to get a call over Southgate's teachers pets.
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Post by redwhite on Aug 28, 2020 13:23:37 GMT
The concern should be the lack of players with flair at Stoke. Stripping away pace and flair is a massive reason we are where we are.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 28, 2020 13:24:29 GMT
I think there was a similar thread a few months ago, or at least I remember saying this kind of thing is an issue worldwide. The maverick player, like Kinkladze, Hagi, Stoichkov, Le Tissier, Cantona, Asprillia, Ginola, Di Canio etc. There don't seem to be as many of them these days, and we've been lucky enough to have our fair share in recent times (Fuller, Tuncay, Shaqiri, Arnautovic, Bojan). I think perhaps less of these players make it to the top due to fitness being so much more important these days. Over half the players I listed were probably smoking a pack of fags a day.
Like Pugsley says, I think more players are more technically advanced these days. But those exciting players that were simply a joy to watch are fewer. Could it be that teams are more about the team compared to the individual these days? Maybe these individuals are easier to stop thanks to the greater fitness of everyone else - there's less need to have two players marking a single player.
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