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Post by bucknall67 on Aug 28, 2020 13:28:55 GMT
There are though. Foden and Mount are much better than him. I think they are better at sticking to a system,but if we were 2-0 down to the Germans I would have Grealish as a fair bet to make things happen.
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Post by newsteadst3 on Aug 28, 2020 13:45:02 GMT
Although not English related, that CL Final last week was like an athletics meeting, everyone looked in prime shape with fitness levels sky high. All built like Middleweight boxer's too. What happened to the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace. After watching that I also must it looked like they were all film stars too and they bin in the make up room before kick off the tubby balding midfielder who could slow the play down, and dictate the game at his pace now has the ball nicked off him in 3 seconds by about 4 gagenpressing blokes with 6 packs. You just don’t get the time you used to for this sort of player Exactly mate, hence why the Olympians now playing football are always giving the ball away or over running the ball, or not able to make correct decisions in final third Run forest run
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 28, 2020 19:17:23 GMT
There are though. Foden and Mount are much better than him. I don't agree that either are much better,I don't think they could be in villa's team and make the same impact he did whereas I think grealush would flourish at man City or Chelsea Foden will be world class.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 28, 2020 19:17:50 GMT
There are though. Foden and Mount are much better than him. I think they are better at sticking to a system,but if we were 2-0 down to the Germans I would have Grealish as a fair bet to make things happen. I wouldn’t.
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Post by logdog on Aug 28, 2020 20:27:21 GMT
I think this is the way football as a whole has gone over the last few years or so. Scouts are looking for athletes first and foremost, physical players who will run all day. Good old fashioned playmakers are a dying breed. Players under 5 10” are virtually non existent. Gone are the days of players like Jan Molby who would run a game without leaving the centre circle. Even Zidane and Pirlo weren’t expected to track back, now ‘playmakers’ are expected to cover thousands of yards a game from box to box. And as for players who can actually go past an opponent...
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 28, 2020 22:17:57 GMT
I think this is the way football as a whole has gone over the last few years or so. Scouts are looking for athletes first and foremost, physical players who will run all day. Good old fashioned playmakers are a dying breed. Players under 5 10” are virtually non existent. Gone are the days of players like Jan Molby who would run a game without leaving the centre circle. Even Zidane and Pirlo weren’t expected to track back, now ‘playmakers’ are expected to cover thousands of yards a game from box to box. And as for players who can actually go past an opponent... Absolutely. For all their talent I actually cannot bear watching Man City or Liverpool. I find them absolutely tedious to watch tbh. Methodical, predictable and like a well oiled machine (a word that Klopp used today no less) Its like speed chess not football to me.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 28, 2020 22:43:29 GMT
I was thinking about the omission of Grealish from the England squad and looking at the other midfield players chosen, I just wondered why there is such a dearth of flair players in the modern game when you compare to past era especially considering the favourable conditions now enjoyed by our players. i.e. unprecedented level of protection from referees, fantastic pitches for every game etc Whatever you think of Grealish (and I don't claim he is amazing) he is one of the very few English players with a creative spark imho, also a player who can put his foot on the ball and dictate the pace of the game, add creative spark etc In the 70s every team seemed to have at least one flair player. Hudson-Stoke, Bowles-QPR, Currie-Sheff Utd, Worthington-Leicester, Best-Man Utd, Rodney Marsh Man City, Brooking-WHU, Hoddle-Spurs. They all played on muddy pitches and got clobbered by the likes of Chopper Harris, Tommy Smith and Billy Bremner every 5 minutes. It isn’t so long ago that we had an abundance of flair players and got relegated. Tin hat strapped on!!!
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 29, 2020 0:03:28 GMT
I have a strange theory that perfect pitches practically put to pasture the poetic, princely playmaker.
Boggy pitches allowed the artists to thrive. Look at Alan Hudson against Man City, Jimmy Greenhoff's volley at the end of a wonderful move against Derby or a 50 year old Sir Stan sprinting past Fulham's defence to seal promotion. They leveled the playing field in terms of fitness.
As pitches got better, it increasingly paid to be more athlete than footballer. At the elite level, you have to be a finely tuned machine operating at peak physical performance to stand a chance. This, in turn, led to a game increasingly focused on shape and closing down space.
All of this makes modern football a robotic, dull affair. Dribbling has gone because modern fitness and orgnisation mean that beating your man will take you down a blind alley where you are closed down by two others. If you fly into a tackle, at best you've disrupted the team's shape and at worst have given away a free kick because proper tackling is banned.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 29, 2020 0:52:04 GMT
I have a strange theory that perfect pitches practically put to pasture the poetic, princely playmaker. Boggy pitches allowed the artists to thrive. Look at Alan Hudson against Man City, Jimmy Greenhoff's volley at the end of a wonderful move against Derby or a 50 year old Sir Stan sprinting past Fulham's defence to seal promotion. They leveled the playing field in terms of fitness. As pitches got better, it increasingly paid to be more athlete than footballer. At the elite level, you have to be a finely tuned machine operating at peak physical performance to stand a chance. This, in turn, led to a game increasingly focused on shape and closing down space. All of this makes modern football a robotic, dull affair. Dribbling has gone because modern fitness and orgnisation mean that beating your man will take you down a blind alley where you are closed down by two others. If you fly into a tackle, at best you've disrupted the team's shape and at worst have given away a free kick because proper tackling is banned. The best footballer in the world presently and a candidate for the best ever is a master dribbler and a chief playmaker.
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 29, 2020 0:59:23 GMT
I have a strange theory that perfect pitches practically put to pasture the poetic, princely playmaker. Boggy pitches allowed the artists to thrive. Look at Alan Hudson against Man City, Jimmy Greenhoff's volley at the end of a wonderful move against Derby or a 50 year old Sir Stan sprinting past Fulham's defence to seal promotion. They leveled the playing field in terms of fitness. As pitches got better, it increasingly paid to be more athlete than footballer. At the elite level, you have to be a finely tuned machine operating at peak physical performance to stand a chance. This, in turn, led to a game increasingly focused on shape and closing down space. All of this makes modern football a robotic, dull affair. Dribbling has gone because modern fitness and orgnisation mean that beating your man will take you down a blind alley where you are closed down by two others. If you fly into a tackle, at best you've disrupted the team's shape and at worst have given away a free kick because proper tackling is banned. The best footballer in the world presently and a candidate for the best ever is a master dribbler and a chief playmaker. And very much the exception, as he is in almost every regard.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 29, 2020 1:07:49 GMT
The best footballer in the world presently and a candidate for the best ever is a master dribbler and a chief playmaker. And very much the exception, as he is in almost every regard. I think people are going ott with it tbh. But then I love watching Man City. Their play is robotic. It’s fascinating. They do the same thing and yet most teams can’t stop despite you know what’s coming. But even then Sterling dribbles, takes men on etc. As does Mahrez and as did Sane. Salah and Mane at Liverpool do too. Martial and Rashford are fine dribblers and Martial in particular skins people for fun. At Chelsea you have Pulisic and Hudson-Odoi that dribble and beat men. Arsenal have Saka who is an immensely talented and direct player. I don’t get where this notion of dribbling and taking a man being dead has come from?
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Post by outspaced on Aug 29, 2020 1:52:07 GMT
Tony Kelly was a good example of a flair player for Stoke. The problem was he didn't have the application and never had the career he should have had. When he was on it he was sublime but it was all too rare.
Bags of natural talent but carried too much weight. Wouldn't have got a trial in today's game.
Also, could you ever imagine the great Forest winger John Robertson making it in the modern game? Overweight, slow, languid. And a genius with the ball. Enjoyed a half time fag in the bogs and won two European Cups, an assist in 79 and scored the winner in 80.
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 29, 2020 8:19:42 GMT
I was thinking about the omission of Grealish from the England squad and looking at the other midfield players chosen, I just wondered why there is such a dearth of flair players in the modern game when you compare to past era especially considering the favourable conditions now enjoyed by our players. i.e. unprecedented level of protection from referees, fantastic pitches for every game etc Whatever you think of Grealish (and I don't claim he is amazing) he is one of the very few English players with a creative spark imho, also a player who can put his foot on the ball and dictate the pace of the game, add creative spark etc In the 70s every team seemed to have at least one flair player. Hudson-Stoke, Bowles-QPR, Currie-Sheff Utd, Worthington-Leicester, Best-Man Utd, Rodney Marsh Man City, Brooking-WHU, Hoddle-Spurs. They all played on muddy pitches and got clobbered by the likes of Chopper Harris, Tommy Smith and Billy Bremner every 5 minutes. I think that I would like to see your definition of flair ie What do you see as a footballer with flair because I believe we have several players who play with flair as I see it.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 29, 2020 8:55:17 GMT
I was thinking about the omission of Grealish from the England squad and looking at the other midfield players chosen, I just wondered why there is such a dearth of flair players in the modern game when you compare to past era especially considering the favourable conditions now enjoyed by our players. i.e. unprecedented level of protection from referees, fantastic pitches for every game etc Whatever you think of Grealish (and I don't claim he is amazing) he is one of the very few English players with a creative spark imho, also a player who can put his foot on the ball and dictate the pace of the game, add creative spark etc In the 70s every team seemed to have at least one flair player. Hudson-Stoke, Bowles-QPR, Currie-Sheff Utd, Worthington-Leicester, Best-Man Utd, Rodney Marsh Man City, Brooking-WHU, Hoddle-Spurs. They all played on muddy pitches and got clobbered by the likes of Chopper Harris, Tommy Smith and Billy Bremner every 5 minutes. I think that I would like to see your definition of flair ie What do you see as a footballer with flair because I believe we have several players who play with flair as I see it. I chose the word flair because I was thinking about stylishness and originality with creative spark and vision. Players who have/had the ability to think outside the box, do the unexpected, quite individualistic in a way but whose contribution benefited and improved their team's performance. Hoddle and Hudson are good examples of that. The players I quoted I feel all had those attributes. Maybe the players around them were quite ordinary and that made them stand out, I don't know, it was just a thought? I used to get excited by seeing those players. They had great skills but maybe weren't consistent/reliable enough and that was their downfall?
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Post by walrus on Aug 29, 2020 9:20:59 GMT
I don't agree that either are much better,I don't think they could be in villa's team and make the same impact he did whereas I think grealush would flourish at man City or Chelsea Foden will be world class. I keep hearing that Foden will be world class but am more excited about Sancho and Greenwood as England’s attacking stars a few years from now. Greenwood especially. He’s two years younger than Foden and already tearing up the Prem. It feels to me like Foden has been too much babysat by Man City. Told he’s going to be great and had his involvement very carefully marshalled over the last couple of years. Whereas Greenwood and Sancho have been allowed to just get on with playing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 10:12:05 GMT
Misty eyed bollocks of a thread.
The game has changed, but there are still loads of players in the game who can be classed as "flair" players.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Aug 29, 2020 10:16:11 GMT
Foden will be world class. I keep hearing that Foden will be world class but am more excited about Sancho and Greenwood as England’s attacking stars a few years from now. Greenwood especially. He’s two years younger than Foden and already tearing up the Prem. It feels to me like Foden has been too much babysat by Man City. Told he’s going to be great and had his involvement very carefully marshalled over the last couple of years. Whereas Greenwood and Sancho have been allowed to just get on with playing. Foden definitely hasnt been played enough. With Silva leaving he was going to become a starter, but now with the chance of Messi going to Man City will he be blocked from the first-team again? He has been played out wide a few times by Pep, but I want to see Foden playing centrally. However with De Bruyne and Messi around hes never going to be first choice. Foden does still look to have what it takes but the next season is vital for him to be playing or he needs to get himself a move
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 29, 2020 10:20:23 GMT
Misty eyed bollocks of a thread. The game has changed, but there are still loads of players in the game who can be classed as "flair" players. Agreed. It’s just a different type of flair I guess these days but there are some fantastically gifted players in the premier league now
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 29, 2020 10:54:10 GMT
Foden will be world class. I keep hearing that Foden will be world class but am more excited about Sancho and Greenwood as England’s attacking stars a few years from now. Greenwood especially. He’s two years younger than Foden and already tearing up the Prem. It feels to me like Foden has been too much babysat by Man City. Told he’s going to be great and had his involvement very carefully marshalled over the last couple of years. Whereas Greenwood and Sancho have been allowed to just get on with playing. I think you’re right they have but I don’t see why that won’t allow Foden to become World class? And actually they are two players who need a player like Foden to play better too. It’s an absolutely frightening thought having them 3 in the same attack. We saw what two of them together can do against in the youth cup! All 3 are class.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 29, 2020 11:02:18 GMT
Misty eyed bollocks of a thread. The game has changed, but there are still loads of players in the game who can be classed as "flair" players. Misty eyed.....Probably Yes. Just getting old and grumpy I think. I'd like to see more players like Pirlo though.
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Post by walrus on Aug 29, 2020 11:21:51 GMT
I keep hearing that Foden will be world class but am more excited about Sancho and Greenwood as England’s attacking stars a few years from now. Greenwood especially. He’s two years younger than Foden and already tearing up the Prem. It feels to me like Foden has been too much babysat by Man City. Told he’s going to be great and had his involvement very carefully marshalled over the last couple of years. Whereas Greenwood and Sancho have been allowed to just get on with playing. I think you’re right they have but I don’t see why that won’t allow Foden to become World class? And actually they are two players who need a player like Foden to play better too. It’s an absolutely frightening thought having them 3 in the same attack. We saw what two of them together can do against in the youth cup! All 3 are class. Cheekymatt above pretty much expressed my feelings. I think he needs to play more, especially in his best position for his development. Big year or two coming up for him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 29, 2020 11:26:45 GMT
I think you’re right they have but I don’t see why that won’t allow Foden to become World class? And actually they are two players who need a player like Foden to play better too. It’s an absolutely frightening thought having them 3 in the same attack. We saw what two of them together can do against in the youth cup! All 3 are class. Cheekymatt above pretty much expressed my feelings. I think he needs to play more, especially in his best position for his development. Big year or two coming up for him. He definitely does but he’s already shown that he fits into a team that has amazing attacking talent and plays at a better level than Dortmund and Man Yoo under a much more demanding coach.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 13:47:35 GMT
The last 'flair' player at Spurs, Christian Eriksen, was also one of the fittest in the PL for distance covered in a match. And look where it got him! The bench at Spurs, now the bench at Inter.
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